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Thread: Which is the greatest Great American novel and why?

  1. #31
    Voice of Chaos & Anarchy
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    Without a doubt, the greatest Novel written by an American is The Ship that Sailed the Time Stream by G. C. Edmonson. It covers everything from top to bottom, and it is fun to read. Another candidate is Causation by Peter P. Lewicke. That also covers almost everything, and it is a pleasure to read.
    https://www.amazon.com/Ship-That-Sai.../dp/044176097X
    https://www.amazon.com/Causation-Pet...s=books&sr=1-1

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ecurb View Post
    When we talk about the Great American Novel, we mean a novel written by an American, but we also refer to a novel that somehow captures or expresses the character of the country and its inhabitants. (By the way, based on JCamilo's post, I think "Don Quixote" would qualify as expressing the Spanish character (of 1600), and "The Aeneid" was written to express the Roman character ("Sing we of arms and the man...."), etc.
    Applying that criterion, I guess On the Road by Kerouac should probably be included as a contender. I have read no other novel that was, at times, such a declaration of love to the United States. At the same time, it is universal to the extent that it clearly lists the differences between the East Coast and the West Coast, and several area's in between. America to some extent becomes the universe... Which should maybe not be spoken to loud nowadays as it may give some in Washington funny ideas.

    That being said, I have always felt that the concept of Great American Novel was invented by literary journalists with the intention of never finding a definite answer to the question. As long as the question remains open, they indeed keep having a job.

    Francis
    "Some things in life need solitude to thrive. Will only flourish in seclusion and loneliness, without affection hushing and lulling them to sleep.
    The pursuit of dreams is such a thing."

    Tom Fitch - Intersection Diaries

  3. #33
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    The greatest American novel that I read this year past is A Naked Singularity. I wonder if the people of Pakistan fret about What is the Greatest Pakistani Novel. Doubt it.

  4. #34
    Registered User hellsapoppin's Avatar
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    So good of folks here to consider Moby Dick by Melville as the greatest American novel. There are many reasons for justifying this but I have one that you likely have not considered up to now: several segments of this classic novel were gleaned from the thoughts, writings, and sermons of Frederick Douglass as discussed in:








    This is best illustrated in Chapters VIII & IX entitled "The Pulpit" & "The Sermon":


    These chapters introduce us to Father Mapple, a former mariner greatly respected by the congregants. While he is presented on tv or movie productions as white speaking with restrained tones, we are told in the book that he has "large brown hands" (p 51)* and later on that he wipes his "swarthy brow" (p 56)* and speaks like a fire-and-brimstone preacher. Swarthy as you know means black or brown. Father Mapple was a black man! And he utters words that were revolutionary for his times: he addresses the congregants as "brethren" "shipmates" and as his brothers and sisters. And, at bottom, his message is: you and I are equals.

    A black man daring to call these white people "equals" was revolutionary in an era where there was slavery, genocide of Native Americans and of Hispanics in the Southwest.

    This is why critics in that era called Moby Dick the most stupid book of those times. I recall reading where some critics saying that Melville was the most stupid man walking the earth back then. That two people were seen laughing at him as he was walking the streets of NYC. Small wonder why the book did not become popular until the 1920s.


    Writer Wallace shows how Melville's ideas were largely those of Douglass. Thus, as Americans who believe in the equality and brotherhood of humankind, this is our ideal book for illustrating the truth of these beliefs.



















    *Moby Dick, Riverside Editions, 1956
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    When stupidity is considered patriotism, it is unsafe to be intelligent

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  5. #35
    running amok Sancho's Avatar
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    Moby!
    I know bounty would probably agree with that assessment. I seem to remember he’s a great admirer of Moby Dick
    Uhhhh...

  6. #36
    Registered User bounty's Avatar
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    hah!

    I was thinking of skipping this Sancho, but since you brought my name up i think im allowed 30 seconds for rebuttal...smiles...

    I think any literary historian who digs into the lives of two people and is able to show the influence of one on another, is to be commended. it sounds like Wallace's book could make a great addition to anyone's library who was interested either in douglass, or Melville, or the history of racial dynamics.

    however, there is no amount of egalitarian life that can rescue the book from being an exceptionally boring treatise on whaling, especially when considered in contrast to its lost potential as an actual adventure story.

    when I read analyses of why the book is supposed to be "great" I invariably think, "what the heck are they talking about?that's not a true statement, this isnt a true statement, that's not accurate, so what, etc." I don't necessarily think a book has to have universal acclaim for it to be considered good, but given how much moby dick is reviled, I don't know how people can continually put it in the "great" category.

  7. #37
    On the road, but not! Danik 2016's Avatar
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    Well I remember that I thought that I would find it boring and then read on and on carried by the intensity of it.
    "I seemed to have sensed also from an early age that some of my experiences as a reader would change me more as a person than would many an event in the world where I sat and read. "
    Gerald Murnane, Tamarisk Row

  8. #38
    Registered User bounty's Avatar
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    that's to my two points danik.

    I didn't find the book intense at all, and even though I can believe people are speaking sincerely about their views, I don't share them.

    which then that leads to the second point. there are bunches of people who like the book. there are bunches of people who hate the book. if the position of "this is a great book" is actually true, it has to be built, at least somewhat, on the premise of that all the people who hate the book are unenlightened troglodytes. or perhaps its just not a great book...

  9. #39
    running amok Sancho's Avatar
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    I only read it once, but I’ve recently been considering rereading it, what with all the buzz it’s been getting on the Litnet.

    I don’t remember a lot of it, but some parts I remember vividly. Queequeq for instance has some hang time. I thought it odd that Ishmael and Queequeq, strangers at the time, were booked into the same room at the inn in New Bedford. I figured it must be a 19th century thing. Their initial meeting is tense, but they become the best of friends. I laughed out loud when Ishmael woke up the next morning and Queequeq was spooning with him. I don’t remember Father Mapple being a black man, but I do remember Queequeq went to one of his services. Queequeq was a curious soul. He was also an unapologetic cannibal, a Pacific Islander from an obscure tribe, and obviously a non-Christian. Yet he and Ishmael became fast friends. And that, it seems to me, says something about Melville’s attitude towards race, friendship, social hierarchy and the brotherhood of sailors.
    Uhhhh...

  10. #40
    Registered User bounty's Avatar
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    major Winchester was my favorite character on M*A*S*H. the following scene isn't essentially about moby dick but the book factors large in it and is nevertheless worth watching.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtaKMHZGv1U

    my perspective however is that convicted criminals should be sentenced to read the book as punishment.

    i'll be curious to hear your thoughts if you do indeed end up rereading it.

  11. #41
    running amok Sancho's Avatar
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    Okay I’m straying pretty far from the original intent of this thread, but here’s a clip from The Life Of Brian that immediately popped into my head when I saw the M*A*S*H clip. And I agree Winchester was a compelling character. He had a depth Frank Burns did not. I’m glad the writers created him instead of just looking for a Larry Linville replacement.

    https://youtu.be/TpicfnfcEiM?si=Ojc8ot2ds6N7EFJ4

    By the way, enlisted guys have always done what the mad jailer is doing in the Monty Python clip — acting dumb so the brass will just go away and leave them alone.
    Uhhhh...

  12. #42
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    yes, what made Charles so good, apart from him being a worthy foil to hawkeye, was in the way they were able to take his snobby rich persona and humanize him in desirably humble and very touching ways.

    I loved life of brian and probably my favorite scene is when caeser is questioning brian and the centurion keeps smacking him.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJMRxbECzow

    back on the topic of moby---I mentioned earlier the attraction of pop culture references. here are a couple from my favorite fictional universe:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x70v7euYqOE

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hdp-yKvTT-I

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