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Thread: revenge

  1. #1
    Registered User virginiawang's Avatar
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    revenge

    What do you think about revenge? May I have some of your opinions? I think it is a must under some circumstances.

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    Maybe YesNo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by virginiawang View Post
    What do you think about revenge? May I have some of your opinions? I think it is a must under some circumstances.
    I prefer to leave revenge in karma's hands so I don't generate the desire for even more revenge. I don't know if I always succeed.

    What circumstances are you referring to?

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    Registered User virginiawang's Avatar
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    I might have died if I had not revenged.
    Now I really want to revenge more, upon one of my parents who bullied me again.

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    Maybe YesNo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by virginiawang View Post
    I might have died if I had not revenged.
    Now I really want to revenge more, upon one of my parents who bullied me again.
    I suspect self-defense isn't revenge.

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    If revenge is dealt in equal measurement to the harm inflicted, this is justice. The problem with justice is that I don't believe any human, or any court, is able to accurately assess at what level an equal measurement actually is.

    The problem with revenge is that it is a vicious cycle. Everytime you seek to bestow 'revenge' upon one who has wronged you, it is not usually in equal measurement to the extent of the wrong inflicted. It has to be more in order to satisfy ourselves. Now, if this turned out to be the behaviour of each party involved, you can see how each act of revenge must be bigger and more harmful than the last. The difference between the rightful amount of revenge and the actual inflicted amount of revenge will often translate into a feeling of guilt. It is very easy to ignore the guilt and furthermore, to justify it; this fuels the hatred, feeding it more and more until we are less ourselves and have become hatred itself...

    Well, the above is what I have experienced and felt myself, and from what I've observed watching others. When a person deals an act of revenge, they are taking upon themselves a responsibility, but of such an unknown magnitude that the Christian Jesus advised against it - "If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them." I believe this advice was given in the best interest of the human soul, as preferable to being caught in the vicious trap of justice/revenge, and furthermore, attempts to end it, as it is unknown what destruction that spiral may do to the soul.

    That said, it depends on the circumstance. For example, the 'slap the other cheek' rule shouldn't be used as mask for cowardice.

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    Maybe YesNo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emmy Castrol View Post
    If revenge is dealt in equal measurement to the harm inflicted, this is justice. The problem with justice is that I don't believe any human, or any court, is able to accurately assess at what level an equal measurement actually is.

    The problem with revenge is that it is a vicious cycle. Everytime you seek to bestow 'revenge' upon one who has wronged you, it is not usually in equal measurement to the extent of the wrong inflicted. It has to be more in order to satisfy ourselves. Now, if this turned out to be the behaviour of each party involved, you can see how each act of revenge must be bigger and more harmful than the last. The difference between the rightful amount of revenge and the actual inflicted amount of revenge will often translate into a feeling of guilt. It is very easy to ignore the guilt and furthermore, to justify it; this fuels the hatred, feeding it more and more until we are less ourselves and have become hatred itself...

    Well, the above is what I have experienced and felt myself, and from what I've observed watching others. When a person deals an act of revenge, they are taking upon themselves a responsibility, but of such an unknown magnitude that the Christian Jesus advised against it - "If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them." I believe this advice was given in the best interest of the human soul, as preferable to being caught in the vicious trap of justice/revenge, and furthermore, attempts to end it, as it is unknown what destruction that spiral may do to the soul.

    That said, it depends on the circumstance. For example, the 'slap the other cheek' rule shouldn't be used as mask for cowardice.


    The only thing I would add about revenge is that it could be something only done in thought. That is, no action or spoken words are involved. One might suspect this is safe, however, I suspect such thought revenge is still damaging to the person who has those thoughts.

    The way around revenge is to have something else to focus one's thoughts on. Often this is some sort of religious framework or set of beliefs, something that is more powerful than the desire for revenge.

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    Revenge indicates a lack of sufficient tolerance at any instantaneous moment.

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    rat in a strange garret Whifflingpin's Avatar
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    Tolerance is possibly not an appropriate response to abusive parents.

    More appropriate would be revenge, flight, hate, fear, or forgiveness. Or other responses, but not tolerance.
    Voices mysterious far and near,
    Sound of the wind and sound of the sea,
    Are calling and whispering in my ear,
    Whifflingpin! Why stayest thou here?

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    I have abusive parents. I'm speaking from experience.

  10. #10
    rat in a strange garret Whifflingpin's Avatar
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    Well - that put me in my place! I bow to your greater experience.
    Voices mysterious far and near,
    Sound of the wind and sound of the sea,
    Are calling and whispering in my ear,
    Whifflingpin! Why stayest thou here?

  11. #11
    [no title] Armel P's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IceM View Post
    Revenge indicates a lack of sufficient tolerance at any instantaneous moment.
    Revenge and tolerence are not two opposing sides of the coin. One can make a better case for pitting revenge against calculated reason but to imply that one is either vengeful or tolerant is a false dichotomy.

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    Do you think the desire for revenge could stem from a suppression of emotion? Like saving up a whole lot of resentment to be released at some future point... sooner or later, it has to be expressed somehow.

    I don't think abusive parents should be tolerated but one should try to understand them and the reasons behind their behaviour (usually insecurity or the subconscious continuation of habit).

    I still think that revenge shouldn't be acted upon, if it can be helped. The most healthy thing to do is to move somewhere far, far away from them... and to build up a new life there...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Whifflingpin View Post
    Well - that put me in my place! I bow to your greater experience.

    For some reason I smell sarcasm. I'm sure it's not intentional; it's just that one friend I have always says they "bow" to my intelligence when they wish to stop arguing. That reminded me of them, with hopes you aren't being sarcastic.


    Quote Originally Posted by Armel P View Post
    Revenge and tolerence are not two opposing sides of the coin. One can make a better case for pitting revenge against calculated reason but to imply that one is either vengeful or tolerant is a false dichotomy.
    Perhaps they aren't polar opposites. But being able to tolerate means being able to endure. Endurance grants me (personal experience) the ability to forego revenge. As long as I can persevere, I have no reason to retaliate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Emmy Castrol View Post
    Do you think the desire for revenge could stem from a suppression of emotion? Like saving up a whole lot of resentment to be released at some future point... sooner or later, it has to be expressed somehow.

    I don't think abusive parents should be tolerated but one should try to understand them and the reasons behind their behaviour (usually insecurity or the subconscious continuation of habit).
    Another form of experience: I supress my emotions quite often. Seems coincidental, I'm sure, to have my experiences come up instantaneously.

    I've only ever admitted emotional repercussions from my parents to my best friends. But I act perfectly normal. I function very well amongst others. Of course, underlying doubt in oneself, negative self-esteem and an underlying lack of self-worth sometimes aren't easy to detect. I only confess it here under anonymity. But once again, I refer to my ability to tolerate, which I link synonymously to endurance; enduring eliminates revenge. It makes oneself stronger.

    Also too, understanding and accepting a parent's reason for abusive behavior is tolerance of their views. I use it loosely, under many pretences, but my ability to endure above all else makes any strife I may have much less of an issue.

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    IceM, I agree in that tolerance - in the form of endurance - does eliminate the need for revenge. Perhaps it is because the act of endurance may be a release of emotion, of channeling it into a more constructive energy form?

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    I always find endurance to be internal. Newborn sensations and long-standing sentiments must be stored somewhere. My endurance is the ability to psychologically withstand emotional damage by philosophically rationalizing them.

    Perhaps the self-satisfaction in knowing one can frequently endure channels out the energy as you suggest. Knowing one can persevere makes persevering easier. I just find myself feeling otherwise.

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