Do muslims love Jesus (peace must be upon him)???

[Nightshade]

I know some scriptures that are often manipulated in both christianity and Islam to justify killing. Its the Koranic equivelant of an eye for an eye. I dont rember all of it but it goes "the forbbiden month for a forbidden month" and then somthing like a person for a person defending your homes and families are your right . then somthing like and let it be known God loves not vengence seekers and blood fudes
somthing like that.
I think the real differance between muslims and christians is not the view of mohmmed although there is the acceptence as him as the final messenger from God, equal to any and all of the previous. No I think the differance has to be in THe way we view Jesus Christ.
Although I really dont understand what your saying Diadem is it that God in his infinate wisdom create a humn body (jesus) from himself and sent him to earth as a human?

I belive Jesus was a mircal a symbol of Gods greatness and power but after that he was a man just a human man but also a holy prophet and messneger like abraham noah moses or mohmmed.
But in other ways I belive he was more special because for instance I dont believ he was ever crucified. I believe God allowed him to assend to heaven without dieing which is one of the reasons hes going to return to earth before the end of the world not only to unify the belivers of all creeds but to die as well.

(Im going to say sorry for my spelling now becasue its appalling but I cant help it )

[Diadem]

I know some scriptures that are often manipulated in both christianity and Islam to justify killing. Its the Koranic equivelant of an eye for an eye. I dont rember all of it but it goes "the forbbiden month for a forbidden month" and then somthing like a person for a person defending your homes and families are your right . then somthing like and let it be known God loves not vengence seekers and blood fudes
somthing like that.

I understand. I was under the impression that it was that scripture involving "eye for an eye". Many people misinterpret that scripture more than any other.

I think the real differance between muslims and christians is not the view of mohmmed although there is the acceptence as him as the final messenger from God, equal to any and all of the previous. No I think the differance has to be in THe way we view Jesus Christ.

You're right.

Although I really dont understand what your saying Diadem is it that God in his infinate wisdom create a humn body (jesus) from himself and sent him to earth as a human?

The Father did not send his Son (Jesus Christ) as a grown human being. He sent the Holy Spirit into Mary and she had an immaculate conception thus giving birth to Jesus Christ. A miracle, in other words. She gave birth to Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and God, who was the Father manifested in the flesh.

There is are several reasons why God had to appear in human form:

1. There needed to be a human sacrifice on the cross in order to render salavtion to humanity for its sins. The Father sacrificed his only begotten Son to die on the cross for our sins.

2. We cannot see the Father in order to know him. That is why he sent the Holy Spirit into Mary so she could give birth to His Son manifested in human flesh that other humans could bear witness to.

Exodus 33:20
But He said, "You cannot see My face, for no man can see Me and live!"

3. The Father could not provide an example for the rest of humanity to abide by had Jesus not been manifested in human flesh and blood, just like everybody else. Had he still had the powers of God as a human, none of his followers would have chose to follow his example because he was a God. It would have been impossible to resist sin like a God. As a human flesh and blood like you and I, it was then possible to emulate Jesus Christ and his resistance of temptation and sin.

I belive Jesus was a mircal a symbol of Gods greatness and power but after that he was a man just a human man but also a holy prophet and messneger like abraham noah moses or mohmmed.

-He was a miracle. He was immaculately conceived by Mary.
-He was just a human man. Flesh and blood. No godly powers.
-He was a prophet, messenger, and the Messiah.
-He was greater than Abraham, Moses and Mohammed. He was God.

But in other ways I belive he was more special because for instance I dont believ he was ever crucified. I believe God allowed him to assend to heaven without dieing which is one of the reasons hes going to return to earth before the end of the world not only to unify the belivers of all creeds but to die as well.

He had to die on the cross. Because of Adam's sin, man fell from grace. An atonement of blood was needed to render our salvation for eternity and Jesus Christ was that sacrifice to die for our sins.

(Im going to say sorry for my spelling now becasue its appalling but I cant help it )

It's all good.

[Nightshade]

Diadem I think we had better agree to respectfully disagree

[lover of jesus]

Yes, I am aware of that my brother.

But, are you familiar with what scripture of the Koran they may be reading in order to justify the killing of innocent people?

They must be using something within the Koran or Hadeeth. Do you know what it might be?

(I do not judge them for killing. That is God's decision.)

Thank you

when we Muslims state that Islam is a religion of peace, we are not trying to prove something unreasonable or solve a crossword puzzle. Rather, we are just stating a fact backed by clear-cut evidence and unquestionable proofs. Even we don’t need to state this fact, for Islam, in itself, is self-explanatory, in terms of its meaning, its noble teachings and the core of its message conveyed by the Prophets Allah sent to mankind.
The Qur’an says about the prohibition of murder, (…Take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: thus does He command you, that ye may learn wisdom.) (Al-An`am 6: 151) and Allah says in the Qur’an, (Nor take life, which Allah has made sacred, except for just cause. And if anyone is slain wrongfully, We have given his heir authority (to demand Qisas or to forgive): but let him not exceed bounds in the matter of taking life; for he is helped (by the law)) (Al-Israa’ 17: 33). According to the Qur’an, killing any person without a just cause is as big a sin as killing the whole humanity and saving the life of one person is as good deed as saving the whole humanity. (See Al-Ma’idah 5: 32)
, then how come the Qur’an says, (kill them wherever you find them…) as it is mentioned in Surah Al-Baqarah 2: 191 and Surah An-Nisaa’ 4: 89. The answer is simple and that is, you should read these verses in their textual and historical context. You should read the whole verse and it is better that you read few verses before and few after. Read the full text and see what is said:
(Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loves not transgressors. And kill them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, kill them. Such is the reward of those who reject faith. But if they cease, Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful. And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevail justice and faith in Allah; but if they cease, let there be no hostility except to those who practice oppression. The prohibited month, for the prohibited month, and so for all things prohibited, there is the law of equality. If then any one transgresses the prohibition against you, transgress ye likewise against him. But fear Allah, and know that Allah is with those who restrain themselves.) (Al-Baqarah 2: 190-194)
also read the full text:
(They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): so take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (from what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks. Except those who join a group between whom and you there is a treaty (Of peace), or those who approach you with hearts restraining them from fighting you as well as fighting their own people. If Allah had pleased, He could have given them power over you, and they would have fought you: therefore if they withdraw from you but fight you not, and (instead) send you (guarantees of) peace, then Allah hath opened no way for you (to war against them). Others you will find that wish to gain your confidence as well as that of their people: every time they are sent back to temptation, they succumb thereto; if they withdraw not from you nor give you (guarantees) of peace besides restraining their hands, seize them and slay them wherever ye get them; in their case We have provided you with a clear argument against them.) (An-Nisaa’ 4: 89-91)
Now tell me honestly, do these verses give a free permission to kill any one anywhere? These verses were revealed by God to Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him), at the time when Muslims were attacked by the non-Muslims of Makkah on a regular basis. They were frightening the Muslim community of Madinah. One may say using the contemporary jargon that there were constant terrorist attacks on Madinah and in this situation Muslims were given permission to fight back the “terrorist”. These verses are not a permission for “terrorism” but they are a warning against the “terrorists.” But even in these warnings you can see how much restraint and care is emphasized.
It is important that we study the religious texts in their proper context. When these texts are not read in their proper textual and historical contexts they are manipulated and distorted. It is true that some Muslims manipulate these verses for their own goals. But this is not only with Islamic texts, it is also true with the texts of other religions. I can quote dozens of verses from the Bible which seem very violent, if taken out from their historical context. These Biblical texts have been used by many violent Jewish and Christian groups. Crusaders used them against Muslims and Jews. Nazis used them against Jews. Recently Serbian Christians used them against Bosnian Muslims. Zionists are using them regularly against Palestinians

[lover of jesus]

1. There needed to be a human sacrifice on the cross in order to render salavtion to humanity for its sins. The Father sacrificed his only begotten Son to die on the cross for our sins.





.

so the God in Hill whearas the slaves in paradise ???

[Diadem]

Diadem I think we had better agree to respectfully disagree

Nightshade, I can assure you that I was never attempting to push my belief on you, and I apologize if you took it as such. I was simply explaining my belief as a Christian, nothing more. I respect your belief as well.

Take care.

[dark_182_88]

Lover of Jesus, what you say shows an erroneous error. God is perfect, God is smart, God knows better. Therefore how can he say "Nor take life, which Allah has made sacred, except for just cause". What is this!! God knows perfectly well that humans are not objective. God knows perfectly well that I might be fighting with you, but we might both be wrong. God knows perfectly well that, if me and you are fighting, then we are both wrong. In no case whatsoever in a human fight or problem, can one side be wrong and the other be totaly right. That's why Jesus has said thou which is without sins cast the first stone. God knows perfectly well that a human being cannot look at things at a 100% objective point of view. Therefore if you give a sentence such as the one above, it is 100% sure that everyone will mis-interpret it. It is 100% sure that each and every person will think that he is right, and the other is wrong, and that he serves a just cause. God is way smarter than that to say such a thing, specialy in medieval times.

Another thing. When you say, if someone does bad to you, you do bad to that someone. What does that tell you? If we go on that example, then not one good thing will ever come. Let's take an example, back in medieval times lets say. You steal an egg of my chicken, I go back and steal one of the eggs of your chicken. You go back and steal more, I do the same. You go back, steal my chicken, I go back and do the same. You go back and kill my chickens, I go back and do the same. You go back and kill my son, I go back and kill your son. And it goes on.

Dealing evil with evil breeds more evil. Dealing evil with evil gets us nowhere and is absolute non-sense. Therefore if those are the words of God then God must be really dumb, no offense.


And on a final note. When Muhammad started his islamic conquest, he used the sword. Islam was propagated with the use of the sword. That is why you see many muslims carrying a sword in their necklaces for example. Muhammad, transgressed other lands, and used the sword to conquer new lands and spread the religion of Islam. So this automaticaly means that Muhammad (God's prophet) used killing and approved killing to convert people to his religion. Do you think God approves with that? Doesn't that sound a bit wrong? Specialy that he went to others' lands, not the other way around (since you said if someone transgresses you, you have the right to get back at them; but if its the other way around then no way is it permissible).

Do you see any contradictions?

[lover of jesus]

Now, make a legend. Within the legend box, draw a small circle with an equals sign next to it, like this:

O = God (Trinity)

That's what it should look like.

Moving on...

The whole circle, the Trinity (God), has 3 equal parts. Therefore, each part would take up 33 1/3% of the circular area. No mathematics is involved; just go ahead and divide the whole circle (God = Trinity) into 3 pieces.

Okay...

Label each piece with an individual number, starting at 1 for the first part and ending at 3 for the last.

In the legend, continue by further defining those numbers. When done, your legend should read as follows:

O (not a zero, a circle) = God (Trinity)
1 = The Holy Spirit
2= The Father
3 = The Son

(It doesn't matter which number is which)

What does that tell you?

It says that the Trinity has 3 parts. They are the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

And what do all 3 parts form when united together as ONE?

The 3 parts form the Trinity, all 3 parts in unity, which is GOD.

The whole circle is the Trinity, right? Yes.

So, as you can see from the circle diagram:

The Holy Spirit is a part OF the Trinity.
The Father is a part OF the Trinity.
The Son is a part OF The Trinity.

Because the Trinity (the whole circle) is another term for God, each part OF the Trinity is a part OF God.

The Father OF God (the whole circle). The Son OF God (the whole circle). The Holy Spirit OF God (whole circle). (Or, God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.)

W00t!

When someone says "God the Father", they do not means God's daddy. They mean that the Father is a part of what we refer to as "God", that whole circle!

Ask yourself, what is God? God is purely a socially-constructed term to describe what is actually all 3 parts of the circle (Trinity) in unity. That whole circle, once again, is the Trinity/ God (because God is all 3 parts of the circle in unity, or the whole circle which is the Trinity according to the Bible, right? Yes.).

That is all! Those 3 beautiful and extraordinary pieces in unity are what people praise! God.

Jesus Christ who was the Father manifested in the flesh, the Holy Spirit, and the Father (the supernatural force)! All together, they are what we refer to as God in all its splendor and magnificence.

Ah, yeah! Make sense now?

Okay, now that you understand what God is, let's talk about each individual part of the Trinity (the whole circle).

.

First of all the example of the circle never been mentioned by Jesus Or any other profit in the old testament.

I will discuss your example any way.

you said
The whole circle, the Trinity (God), has 3 equal parts.

This means that God is divided into 3 parts and each part is not a complete God.
That's against the faith law.
(Jesus is a complete God from a Complete God.)
In the same time your example means that, to have a complete God we need to have the 3 parts together. And each part depends on the others to have the complete power; this means none of them is a God.

In your Example each of them is smaller than the big circle, and so each of them is less than a God.
In the same time in your example every part is differ than the others, may be some is bigger or much powerful the others.
and also this is against faith law.

Please let me ask,
Who told you that? Or From where such information?

Did Jesus said so? .... No.
Did Jesus mention any thing about Trinity? … No.
Did the word Trinity exists in the New Testament? ….. No.

When did they know about trinity? After they considered the Holy Ghost is a God in 381 A.B.

At the end
trinity never been mentioned by and messenger of God , also Jesus never Know about it, and let's stick on what did Jesus said.

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, and him whom thou didst send, even Jesus Christ.

Jesus said you are the only true god and you sent me ( Just like Moses and other Messengers.)
He didn't said to know the trinity, He said to know you as you are the only true God.
We are Ready to discuss any statement in the Holy Book concerning the Trinity, because we are sure that is not what Jesus said , and even what Gospel Writers mentioned.





__________________

[lover of jesus]

The name was meant to be light-hearted, but it also reflected his commitment to the traditional understanding of jihad in the Koran, which is best translated as a struggle or striving. It is an inner, spiritual struggle to triumph over evil, to live in submission to God and service to humanity.

On Sept. 11, sick with sorrow and outrage, McAuliffe purged Dr. Jihad from his Web site. The terrorists who used jetliners filled with innocent people as weapons of mass destruction, and who may have justified their actions as a jihad against enemies of Islam, have so perverted the noble word that he cannot use it.

"Jihad is a very broad concept that includes theories of just war. But the Koran is very clear that Muslims are only to wage defensive wars," he said. "The more important meaning of jihad is the struggle to be good."

The Arabic term for holy war would be al-harb muhadassa, but "there is no holy war in the Koran. There is no combination of words that means holy war," he said.

Verses such as Koran 9:20-22 are among those that have led suicide bombers to believe they will inherit Paradise:

Those who believe, and who have forsaken the domain of evil and have striven [jihad] hard in God's cause with their possessions and their lives have the highest rank in the sight of God; and it is they, they who shall triumph in the end! Their Sustainer gives them glad tidings of the grace that flows from Him, and of His goodly acceptance, and of the gardens which await them, full of lasting bliss, therein to abide beyond the count of time. Verily, with God is a mighty reward!

The terrorists have ripped such verses out of context and failed to understand their true meaning, McAuliffe said. Passages on fighting refer to a particular war, when enemies of Islam tried to destroy the Prophet Muhammad and his followers. They do not give blanket permission to condemn or kill those who hold political or religious views other than your own, he said.

Take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law: Thus doth he command you, that ye may learn wisdom. Koran 6:151

Ihsan Bagby, a Muslim who teaches international relations at Shaw University in Raleigh, N.C., doesn't know how suicide bombers shut out the many verses that extol peace, mercy, restraint and forgiveness. He suspects they convince themselves that military jihad has always had "collateral damage" and that, if American policy sustains injustice, they can target any American interest.

"Of course, such logic is irrational and immoral," Bagby said.

American Muslims have long urged the media not to refer to terrorists as "Islamic" but as "Islamists," meaning those who attempt to impose Islam by force. Few Muslims consider such tactics Islamic.

On the Web, McAuliffe challenges extremists. Their distorted theology "is not so much a matter of which passages of the Koran they read, but which they ignore," he said.

Few extremists would commit violence, he said. They are extreme because they "don't take the book as a whole. They don't grasp its ethos, or see the balance between the different passages."

The Koran is believed by Muslims to have been dictated by the Angel Gabriel to Muhammad in the early 7 th century A.D. Lesser writings, called hadith, are used to interpret the Koran. Hadith include the sayings and biography of Muhammad.

Hadith makes clear that war is only for defense, that innocent civilians must not be targeted, and that fire must not be used to kill, McAuliffe said. In it, Muhammad declares battle the "lesser jihad" and spiritual purification the "greater jihad."

Extremists ignore the historical and social context of hadith, and those few who condone terrorism claim that hadith's restraints on violence are not true sayings of Muhammad, he said.

"We don't have any kind of an official body that interprets the Koran in light of hadith. People look to certain scholars or certain charismatic leaders or groups, and get interpretation from them. But there is no Vatican that can say, 'This is the official teaching. ' "

At the center of the quarrel between mainstream Muslims and extremists is how to know when a person or a nation has become an "oppressor" or an enemy of Islam.

In the traditional debate over how to respond to an unjust ruler, "One side maintained that you have to fight back. The other side, which is really the standard Sunni Muslim approach, is that you can't fight anyone unless they prevent you from practicing your religion," he said.

But arguing with extremists is exhausting. Until Sept. 11, if some hothead lectured fellow Muslims about America the Infidel, "People just kind of rolled their eyes," McAuliffe said.

Extremists "don't let up. They are bullies. They seem to have an infinite amount of time and energy and they do not listen. They will not entertain the possibility that they might be incorrect. It's like talking to a wall."

Now, "The good people need to bring as much energy and passion to the confrontation as the evil people do."

Most of those he chats with online share that conviction, he said.

"There is almost a feeling of helplessness that these guys have -- and I hate to use this word -- hijacked the Islamic message," McAuliffe said.

We ordained for the Children of Israel that if anyone slew a person -- unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land -- it would be as if he slew the whole people: And if anyone saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Koran 5:32

While extremists have monopolized media attention, respected Muslim groups and leaders have countered extremist theology, said John O. Voll, associate director of the Center for Muslim-Christian Understanding at Georgetown University in Washington, D.C., and co-author of "Islam and Democracy."

He cited Minaret magazine, published by the Islamic Center of Southern California, which circulates nationwide.

"The moderate view is mainstream Islam and always has been," Voll said. "Claiming that someone is an unbeliever and therefore has to be attacked has long been recognized as a heretical approach."

Voll compares the usage of jihad to that of crusade, which was a military term in 1099 when European Christian armies took back Jerusalem from Muslim Turks who had conquered the Holy Land. Now, however, it usually means an evangelistic meeting or a moral crusade against drugs or violence.

Medieval crusaders who slaughtered Muslim civilians, Jews and Orthodox Christians doubtless believed they had sanction from God. But their actions so poisoned the view of Western Christianity in Eastern Europe and Asia that, nearly 1,000 years later, Billy Graham dropped the word "crusade" from his overseas missions.

The consensus of mainstream Islam is that each individual has a duty to apply his or her full intellect to understanding the Koran.

"You don't just blindly sit down and believe what some teacher has told you," Voll said.

"That relatively blind copying of what others have said is the theological foundation of people like Osama bin Laden and it is different from most of the fundamentalists."

McAuliffe worries that a shortage of qualified religion teachers leaves American Muslims vulnerable to simplistic interpretations of many issues. Most teachers are intelligent and devout, but their education often is in medicine or engineering, rather than religion, history, literature and anthropology, he said.

He was struck that the suicide bombers of Sept. 11 were educated men -- but educated in technology rather than religion.

"What is very scary is that these were not poor, desperate people whose desire to lash out could at least be understood. You can find these educated people in the extremist groups, but they tend to be trained in the natural sciences."

Children of Abraham, it's time to make a stand/ against the injustice and evil in our lands/ Believers come together and join your voice as one/ We don't care what country you are from/ Jew, Christian, Muslim, it's time that we grew up/ Accept each others' differences and leave the rest to God/ Compete in piety, worship and good deeds/ Give up your hatred, your guns and your greed.

McAuliffe wrote that in response to Sept. 11.

[lover of jesus]

I
The Father did not send his Son (Jesus Christ) as a grown human being. He sent the Holy Spirit into Mary and she had an immaculate conception thus giving birth to Jesus Christ. A miracle, in other words. She gave birth to Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and God, who was the Father manifested in the flesh.


.

1-Why does a Most Loving and All-Merciful God requires a blood sacrifice (Jesus) to forgive people’s sins?????

2-If Jesus is truly a god why created a baby, weak to be nursed and looked after? Then a boy then a youth then a man, why passes through all these stages? Is it to prove and stress to mankind that he is a god or a human just like us?

3-Why did Mary experience the pains of delivery just like any other woman?

4-If gods, why did not they beget themselves? If gods, why die?

5-Will that son have children of his own? Why not? Would not that be unjust? Would his offspring be also gods? Would the world be then divided into a kingdom for sons and a kingdom of servants? Whom of them would we then worship?

Do not you know brother that the words ‘You have no partner, O Allah’ settle in the heart of the believer the relief of knowing that Allah is the One and Only God. Allah wants to relieve and assure us that He is the One God with no other partner to oppose Him in His Will. This Oneness is a great blessing indeed for which we should heartily thank Allah. Surely, had there been a partner with Him, the earth would have been full of mischief and people’s needs would have been wasted between a god that wants and another that denies.

6-Crucified, means dead, do gods die? If he dies then he is not a god but a human? If a human, why elevates him to a status higher than his?

7-If gods why sleep, eat, drink…. like all humans?
Please see how nobly the Glorious Qur’an stresses their humanity through the noble Qur’anic verse saying what means:

“Christ, the son of Mary, was no more than a Messenger; many were the Messengers that passed away before him. His mother was a woman of truth. They both used to eat food (as any other human being). See how Allah doth make his Signs clear to them; yet see in what ways they are deluded away from the truth!” [Al-Mâ'idah, 5: 75]

The Noble Qur’an summed the proof of their humanity in these words, “They both used to eat food”, which stresses their humanity and politely imply the need to answer the call of nature like any other human being.

8-If a god why did he appear once to a certain group of people only? Why did not he appear in every era for people to believe in his divinity? Would not he be an unjust god appearing only to a few people?
What about those who came before the mission of Jesus, have they no share in the sacrifice?

The conclusive answer is that his appearance for a certain group of people bears witness to his Prophethood; a Prophet whom Allah had sent to guide a certain group of people, such is the mission of all the Prophets. But the Prophet Muhammad (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) was sent to the entire humanity till the Last Hour befalls.

9-Allah created the heavens, the earth, the mountains, the seas, the sun, the moon, the stars, the planets, Paradise, Hellfire ……and all that exists, if gods what did they create?

We Muslims perfectly know the miracles of the Prophet Jesus:
-Allah supported the Prophet Jesus with signs for people to believe, like all previous prophets (ex: the stick of the Prophet Moses, peace be upon them) they all happened by the Will of Allah. The Noble Qur’an says what means:

“And will make him ['Iesa (Jesus)] a Messenger to the Children of Israel (saying): 'I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, that I design for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah’s Leave; and I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I bring the dead to life by Allah’s Leave. And I inform you of what you eat, and what you store in your houses. Surely, therein is a sign for you, if you believe. And I have come confirming that which was before me of the Taurât (Torah), and to make lawful to you part of what was forbidden to you, and I have come to you with a proof from your Lord. So fear Allah and obey me.'”

We have to bear in mind that the miracles that Allah supported Jesus with, all happened by His Leave: The bird was not brought out of nothing; the bird was first shaped of clay, the clay that Allah created, and after breathing into it, it became a bird by the Leave of Allah, a sign for his people to believe. The miracle was only restricted to birds so that people would not fall into the error of believing him to be a creator. Just as holding a seed in your hand that show no symptoms of life and then you sow it and only by the Leave of Allah it becomes a long shady tree, pulsing with life. By sowing this little seed are you the creator of the tree? Of course not. And the same apply to all the miracles that only happened by the Leave of Allah.

Apart from the miracles mentioned in the Qur’anic verses, my question is: did he create anything in you? Anything in the universe? No. Then why do you worship him?????

Steal a glance at creation of the heavens and the earth, the sun and the moons, the stars and plants, the mountains and endless deserts, the oceans and seas, the birds and insects, the animals and whales all are testifying that there is no god but Allah, the One and Only. And here comes the challenge of Allah addressed to all mankind, a challenge that bends the heads in meditation. Listen to the Challenge of Allah addressed through the noble Qur’anic verse saying what means:

“O mankind! A similitude has been coined, so listen to it (carefully): Verily! Those on whom you call besides Allah, cannot create (even) a fly, even though they combine together for the purpose. And if the fly snatched away a thing from them, they would have no power to release it from the fly. So weak are (both) the seeker and the sought.” (Al-Hajj, 22: 73)

10-The Prophet Jesus (peace be upon him) talked in the cradle, a Miracle for people to believe in Allah as well as a Sign of the Absolute Power of Allah and to silence any malicious tongues. Mary was relieved of the burden of having to defend herself before her people. She was kindly ordered to keep silent; she is to eat and drink and be glad, while Providence would masterfully handle the defense. The Noble Qur’an says (what means):

“So eat and drink and be glad, and if you see any human being, say: ‘Verily! I have vowed a fast unto the Most Beneficent (Allah) so I shall not speak to any human being this day.’” [Maryam, 19: 26]

The Glorious Qur’an then vividly relates the scene, as if we now see Mary going to her people and carrying her child in her arms, through the verses saying what means:

“Then she brought him (the baby) to her people, carrying him. They said: ‘O Mary! Indeed you have brought a thing Fariya (an unheard mighty thing). O sister (i.e. the like) of Hârûn (Aaron)! Your father was not a man who used to commit adultery, nor your mother was an unchaste woman.’ Then she pointed to him. They said: ‘How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?’ [Maryam, 19: 27-29]

And the miracle happened and the baby talked in the cradle, so what did he say?

“He ['Iesa (Jesus)] said: Verily! I am a servant of Allah, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet. And He has made me blessed wheresoever I be, and has enjoined on me Salât (prayer), and Zakât, as long as I live. And dutiful to my mother, and made me not arrogant, unblest. And Salâm (peace) be upon me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive. ” [Maryam, 19: 30-33]

- Salvation according to your law: the son of god died for your sins! Christ Has Paid Our Penalty! Sacrifice a dove to wash the sins of wolves? The just is to be killed for the unjust? By his blood he paid for all the sins of humanity, but we wonder who will pay the penalty for the wrong done to him? Or would it pass untried? Or would it be all humanity?

What is that law??? As if telling man: sin man, as you like for Christ has paid the penalty!!!

Does not that law annul the purpose of the life of this world? The purpose of worldly life lies in its being an abode of trial where Allah, all praise and glory be to Him, tries His servants in obeying Him. According to this blood-law the pious is stupid, why not sin, kill, steal, drink wine, commit adultery and obscenities, for it is for free, Christ Has Paid Our Penalty??

Would you sacrifice a toe of your son for your other vicious son? No, you would not. It would be injustice done to your good son. Do you see to whom injustice is ascribed blindly, because if injustice is committed against one soul as if committed against all humanity? Would Allah, the Most Just, offer a servant of His for the entire humanity to torture him, lash him, mock at him, humiliate him, spit at him and then crucify him to wash by his blood the sin of the entire humanity? What about him who was crucified and sacrificed?

[dark_182_88]

I dont wanna get into all what you mentioned above, since im sure Diadem will be much better doing so, but i just have a few remarks. Jesus, in arabic, is called Yasou', which comes from Yeshwa (in aramaic). The name Issa has nothing whatsoever to do with Jesus, however they use his name in the Qur'an as Jesus. In the Qur'an, they speak about the holy trinity. They speak about the father, Jesus, and Mary as the holy trinity. Don't you see something wrong in that? I mean, they're changing christianity, and creating characters, and making it sound all but nothing close to the truth. And that is supposed to be Allah's word and all. And I would like to stress once again, that Jesus was brought to Earth as a human, stripped from his godly powers. I think Diadem has already mentioned that. So your arguments do not make much sense up there.


Anyways, you forgot to answer me this, so I thought I'd just copy it again for you.

Lover of Jesus, what you say shows an erroneous error. God is perfect, God is smart, God knows better. Therefore how can he say "Nor take life, which Allah has made sacred, except for just cause". What is this!! God knows perfectly well that humans are not objective. God knows perfectly well that I might be fighting with you, but we might both be wrong. God knows perfectly well that, if me and you are fighting, then we are both wrong. In no case whatsoever in a human fight or problem, can one side be wrong and the other be totaly right. That's why Jesus has said thou which is without sins cast the first stone. God knows perfectly well that a human being cannot look at things at a 100% objective point of view. Therefore if you give a sentence such as the one above, it is 100% sure that everyone will mis-interpret it. It is 100% sure that each and every person will think that he is right, and the other is wrong, and that he serves a just cause. God is way smarter than that to say such a thing, specialy in medieval times.

Another thing. When you say, if someone does bad to you, you do bad to that someone. What does that tell you? If we go on that example, then not one good thing will ever come. Let's take an example, back in medieval times lets say. You steal an egg of my chicken, I go back and steal one of the eggs of your chicken. You go back and steal more, I do the same. You go back, steal my chicken, I go back and do the same. You go back and kill my chickens, I go back and do the same. You go back and kill my son, I go back and kill your son. And it goes on.

Dealing evil with evil breeds more evil. Dealing evil with evil gets us nowhere and is absolute non-sense. Therefore if those are the words of God then God must be really dumb, no offense.


And on a final note. When Muhammad started his islamic conquest, he used the sword. Islam was propagated with the use of the sword. That is why you see many muslims carrying a sword in their necklaces for example. Muhammad, transgressed other lands, and used the sword to conquer new lands and spread the religion of Islam. So this automaticaly means that Muhammad (God's prophet) used killing and approved killing to convert people to his religion. Do you think God approves with that? Doesn't that sound a bit wrong? Specialy that he went to others' lands, not the other way around (since you said if someone transgresses you, you have the right to get back at them; but if its the other way around then no way is it permissible).

Do you see any contradictions?

[Diadem]

My answers will, of course, be related to Christianity according to the Bible. And, some people read the Koran. Therefore, we won't see eye-to-eye. I was simply explaining how Christians see it.

So, we'll just agree to disagree as Muslims and Christians usually do.

[Diadem]

First of all the example of the circle never been mentioned by Jesus Or any other profit in the old testament.

I will discuss your example any way.

you said
The whole circle, the Trinity (God), has 3 equal parts.

This means that God is divided into 3 parts and each part is not a complete God.
That's against the faith law.
(Jesus is a complete God from a Complete God.)
In the same time your example means that, to have a complete God we need to have the 3 parts together. And each part depends on the others to have the complete power; this means none of them is a God.

In your Example each of them is smaller than the big circle, and so each of them is less than a God.
In the same time in your example every part is differ than the others, may be some is bigger or much powerful the others.
and also this is against faith law.

Please let me ask,
Who told you that? Or From where such information?

Did Jesus said so? .... No.
Did Jesus mention any thing about Trinity? … No.
Did the word Trinity exists in the New Testament? ….. No.

When did they know about trinity? After they considered the Holy Ghost is a God in 381 A.B.

At the end
trinity never been mentioned by and messenger of God , also Jesus never Know about it, and let's stick on what did Jesus said.

Joh 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they should know thee the only true God, and him whom thou didst send, even Jesus Christ.

Jesus said you are the only true god and you sent me ( Just like Moses and other Messengers.)
He didn't said to know the trinity, He said to know you as you are the only true God.
We are Ready to discuss any statement in the Holy Book concerning the Trinity, because we are sure that is not what Jesus said , and even what Gospel Writers mentioned.





__________________

Jesus was God the Father manifested in the flesh. Bliblical scripture confirmed it. I posted the exact scriptures. I don't know what else you're expecting me to say?

[Nightshade]

My answers will, of course, be related to Christianity according to the Bible. And, some people read the Koran (Hadeeth). Therefore, we won't see eye-to-eye. I was simply explaining how Christians see it.

So, we'll just agree to disagree as Muslims and Christians usually do.

YEs agreed to disagree but may I ask why you put (hadeeth) after Koran?
Doesnt that grammatically mean the hadeeth is another namefor the koran?
Just a small grammer question

[Diadem]

YEs agreed to disagree but may I ask why you put (hadeeth) after Koran?
Doesnt that grammatically mean the hadeeth is another namefor the koran?
Just a small grammer question

Ah, you're right. They are two different books. My apologies.