School Dress Codes? Uniforms?

Confidential to TheComedian: Way "back in the day" the nuns used to get the tape measure out and measure the hems of uniform skirts to determine whether they weren't too many inches up from the floor. The good sisters spent time on this that might have been more productively spent on The Hundred Years War or differential equations.

And Heathcliff, you're absolutely right about parents being deligated to the penultimate bottom layer of the totem pole. Teachers (and especially schools top-heavy with over-paid administrators) give lip service to "welcoming input from parents." In most cases,however, when it comes time to "implement" --a favorite word of educationists -- the parents' suggestions, the first four levels of the hierarchy push their own agenda instead.

*shrug* When I was in highschool, I used to wish that we had uniforms. I hated having to focus on finding something cool looking to wear at seven in the morning when I was still half-asleep. I don't think that we'd have to worry about kids "losing their individuality" or whatever, like a lot of people said, kids would still form cliques; this means that they're still defining themselves as something.

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Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf

*shrug* When I was in highschool, I used to wish that we had uniforms. I hated having to focus on finding something cool looking to wear at seven in the morning when I was still half-asleep. I don't think that we'd have to worry about kids "losing their individuality" or whatever, like a lot of people said, kids would still form cliques; this means that they're still defining themselves as something.

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I have to say it was nice. My biggest decision was what color socks and (if) sweater I wanted to wear. Even that wasn't much of a decision as my choices were gray, blue, black, white.

Having lived in both Canada and Australia, in Canada I went to a public school and had to wear casual clothes and in Australia I was forced to go to a private catholic school and wear a uniform.

Heres my findings.

1) Uniforms reduce bullying : Dont know about you, but I cant remember when the last time I was picked on for a piece of clothing, probably about grade 5. Generally people will just single someone out for the way they act, or speak, or who they hang out with rather then what they wear. It doesnt really cut back on bullying at all, just makes the bullies come up with even more rediculous reasons to single u out.

2) Uniforms make it easier to pick what to wear: Yes...every...single...day. The exact same outfit, shoes. There has never been an experience so creatively stifling in my life. There is something incredibly creepy about sitting in a school assembly, and seeing every single person wearing the same thing, with the same shoes, and the exact same hair spare for one or two "rebels". Its not natural, you feel like another number, and at the end of the day its more about control and oppression then it is about making life easier.

I think uniforms should be abolished, even when we get older and submit to a life of survitude and semi-concious interactions we are permited to wear what we like, though some companies do have uniforms, they are generally retail. As if kids in school dont have enough trouble trying to find their personal identity and style without being forced to look the exact same as everyone else. Its inhuman. I hate them

Inhuman is such a strong word for a dress code. There are far stricter regimes in the world where you might criticise strongly for their dress codes, but inhuman - too strong.

You said yourself that bullying about clothes is reduced, but that clothing is very important to young people. At least that important aspect of individuality is protected.

I think that uniforms encourage a search for personal identity. Being compelled to wear the same thing makes the wearer wish to be more individual. But then teen individuality is often about identity within an individual tribe rather than real individuality.

Later clothes may become...just another thing. This whole I'm an individual thing - my clothes make a statement about who I am - is really smoke and mirrors. People copy others, though they don't like to admit it. We are social animals and gravitate towards people like ourselves - clothes - music - whatever, but behind these things lie industry and money. A true individual would find it hard to fit into a social group.

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Originally Posted by Nax

1) Uniforms reduce bullying : Dont know about you, but I cant remember when the last time I was picked on for a piece of clothing, probably about grade 5. Generally people will just single someone out for the way they act, or speak, or who they hang out with rather then what they wear. It doesnt really cut back on bullying at all, just makes the bullies come up with even more rediculous reasons to single u out.

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Haha. We'd get picked on, despite the uniform. It is surprisingly complicated to wear it correctly and 'correctly' at the same time.

Actually. we got picked on because of the uniform - not within school, but by the kids from every other school nearby.

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Originally Posted by AuntShecky

And Heathcliff, you're absolutely right about parents being deligated to the penultimate bottom layer of the totem pole. Teachers (and especially schools top-heavy with over-paid administrators) give lip service to "welcoming input from parents." In most cases,however, when it comes time to "implement" --a favorite word of educationists -- the parents' suggestions, the first four levels of the hierarchy push their own agenda instead.

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I know. Most of the time, if the school has a problem, we'll get three lunchtimes and an afterschool before they go to the parents with a problem.
They have student services, who are able to organise meetings with them, however they don't even know I exist. Like, that many of my friends are sent there all the time, social services comes looking for them, at random. They saod they'd come to everyone and speaek to every student. They haven't spoken to me. I'm ironically hurt, I need to go and see social services about it. :cryin: :lol:
Parents wouldn't have a clue. They should. Still, we have a parents comittee, only out of a large school only a few people show up. Half the time, its like they don't even care. My parents do, they are constantly hassling the school.
The school only talks to them if it is bothering their life. We come to parent teacher interviews, teachers don't even want to see me. They say there aren't any problems so they don't want to see us.
Our school is still pretty good though.

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Originally Posted by MarkBastable

Actually. we got picked on because of the uniform - not within school, but by the kids from every other school nearby.

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Our school doesn't get picked on. Overall, we out-number the surrounding schools, so they won't mess with us.
We're a private school so when they bother us we make ourself superior...
Actually, we're pretty decent. We won't fight unless we have to.

Dress codes are common here. I have seen chicks in their flashy dresses, at times they are so much exposed to the extent man starts salivating. They are dressed up but the hidden desire is to expose all. The dress becomes an undesired mask. Now people here stick to certain dress codes except for Friday. Friday becomes the day that unfurls what chicks are below their dresses.

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Originally Posted by Paulclem

This whole I'm an individual thing - my clothes make a statement about who I am - is really smoke and mirrors. People copy others, though they don't like to admit it. We are social animals and gravitate towards people like ourselves - clothes - music - whatever, but behind these things lie industry and money. A true individual would find it hard to fit into a social group.

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Just one question:

What makes a teenager/school-going child different from an adult? Why is it that the adult (unless he needs to be recognised as policeman, shop-assistant, fireman, railway worker etc) is allowed his own clothing while the child/teenager is forced to walk around in sometimes the most ridiculous unfitting uniform? Surely every child goes to school these days. We do not need to recognise them for it. So why have to wear a uniform? It does not serve any purpose.

Don't get me wrong, I am not for shorts in school, or over-sexy stuff. But really, I do not see the need for any uniform whatsoever, unless it serves a clear purpose, which one in school clearly does not.

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Originally Posted by kiki1982

Just one question:

What makes a teenager/school-going child different from an adult? Why is it that the adult (unless he needs to be recognised as policeman, shop-assistant, fireman, railway worker etc) is allowed his own clothing while the child/teenager is forced to walk around in sometimes the most ridiculous unfitting uniform? Surely every child goes to school these days. We do not need to recognise them for it. So why have to wear a uniform? It does not serve any purpose.

Don't get me wrong, I am not for shorts in school, or over-sexy stuff. But really, I do not see the need for any uniform whatsoever, unless it serves a clear purpose, which one in school clearly does not.

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Because, as I said in the post above, it helps kids by taking the pressure off them. As Nax said, clothes are important to young people in a way they are not to older people. It serves a clear purpose in this, and there is some evidence that it helps behaviour - schools here in England that have been turned around have had - but only as one aspect of that process - uniforms imposed.

Kids are at school for quite a short time, and then will have all their lives to express themselves. I still think kids need guidance even if they don't like it, and in this issue adults setting the agenda are not clouded by the small concerns kids have about uniforms.

Don't get me wrong, I believe there should be a dress-code. People do not go to work in a track-suit so they should also not go to school in them. But I don't see how a dreary uniform would benefit them at all.

Stuffing teenagers all in the same suit will not automatically condition them to express themselves better. It is the parents, the school etc who need to take care of that. If one is saddled with bad parents, one gets stuck with clothing. And outside the school it can still become an issue of expression. So, the argument, to me, does not hold up. School is not 24 hours a day.

That said though, I don't mean to say that teenagers/children should be allowed to walk about anyhow they like. They should learn from the start that there are certain conventions, because that is life. Life is not made up of freedom, but of duty. In that, they should dress a certain way that is decent, but I don't agree that they should walk around in the same old thing every day, all of them. Not everyone looks nice in the same colour, not everyone likes the same colour. At any rate, to me, the problem would change place. If it is not their jumper hey express themselves with, it is their pen-bag, their tattoo, their sports shoes, their whatever.

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Originally Posted by kiki1982

Don't get me wrong, I believe there should be a dress-code. People do not go to work in a track-suit so they should also not go to school in them. But I don't see how a dreary uniform would benefit them at all.

Stuffing teenagers all in the same suit will not automatically condition them to express themselves better. It is the parents, the school etc who need to take care of that. If one is saddled with bad parents, one gets stuck with clothing. And outside the school it can still become an issue of expression. So, the argument, to me, does not hold up. School is not 24 hours a day.

That said though, I don't mean to say that teenagers/children should be allowed to walk about anyhow they like. They should learn from the start that there are certain conventions, because that is life. Life is not made up of freedom, but of duty. In that, they should dress a certain way that is decent, but I don't agree that they should walk around in the same old thing every day, all of them. Not everyone looks nice in the same colour, not everyone likes the same colour. At any rate, to me, the problem would change place. If it is not their jumper hey express themselves with, it is their pen-bag, their tattoo, their sports shoes, their whatever.

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I agree that uniforms in themselves do nothing much for behaviour - except take away the clothes bully thing. It has to be the whole package of improvement.

Bad parents are bad for everyone - particularly for their own kids, but you can't run a dress code on what a minority of parents may or may not do.

As for learning appropriate dress codes - the simplest thing is a uniform. Of course it doesn't suit everyone, but that's not it's purpose. Also in the UK - can't speak for other countries - the school year is 38 weeks out of 52, and only 7-8 hours out of the day at that. That's lots of time to get individual with the responsibility of dressing appropriately for some of the time.

Don't you think aged people like myself, and younger people didn't have to wear uniforms and disliked them? We did. Some of us went on to be punks, rockers, new romantics etc - (I'm showing my age now :D) - as soon as we got out of school. But what happens - you just forget about it when you leave and wear what you want. Those fabled school days fade into the mists of time and you realise that although you were a bit irritated by them at the time, it just served a short term purpose, and had no effect beyond that.

You're right about the little individual tweaks to appearance - the hair, the pens whatever. It also happened in rugby teams I played in - some players tucked in their collar to look bulkier in the shoulders, some had their socks down. Human nature - but I don't see it as an argument against uniforms.

I don't like the school uniforms as an item myself. My ex-head that I used to work for used to wear the school uniform as well as the kids. A ghastly Green, but if I was the Head on £100,000 or so smackers a year, then bring it on. I'd definately make the kids wear it as well, and not just because I felt I had to. :D

Dress codes pretty much apply anywhere anyway.
Like showing up to a job interview in the city, you're not going to go wearing an empty sack of potatoes.
Our school says they reserve the right to decide if we're dressed properly even on casual days.
Still, pretty much all of the girls in our school have their skirts too short, the school can't throw them all out though.
What amazes me is that their parents let them leave the house in some of their ridiculous getups, and how they can survive having to catch a train at the Station.

Oh what, now ur gonna start bashing on wearing potato sacks? Jeez strict much.

I understand the thought behind it, but I dont believe it really works to that effect. Alot of the time it doesnt stop it at all, like the poorer kids cant afford the flashy shoes and dress pants at my school, so they are forced to buy cheaper crapper immitations and are picked on (just like with casuals)

Its trying to cover up a symptom rather then address the disease persay.

I am backing Kiki, Can you imagine the uproar in almost every facet of society if a government imposed a uniform code for everyone, all day, till you got home? Regardless if you were at work or anywhere else you still had to wear it? It would be rediculous. Why is it ok just because they are at school? I dont think that a service which is being paid for by the family should have any say at all in how a child dresses, or wears their hair, or what shoes they have on, as long as it applies to the normal standards of society.