Freedom Of Speech.

Your right to say something stupid is as strong as mine to call you stupid for saying it.

(And, yes, we know Bien, the Christians are persecuted here all the time. I mean, look at all those threads started by non Christians bashing Christianity, and none where the upstanding Christians bash non-Christians. Oh, wait. . . . )

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Originally Posted by BienvenuJDC

Yes, and it is just as true here at this site. If you have a belief, even if it is a generally accepted belief among certain crowds, you will be chastised and belittled because your beliefs are contrary to the majority of the beliefs here.

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That's not why I have chastised or belittled certain beliefs. I don't care what the majority thinks. I chastise something that attempts to negate scientific study with conjecture. It's debate. It's not a popularity contest or a violation of rights. :)

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Originally Posted by OrphanPip

I wasn't comparing them, I was illustrating how the state tolerates the expressions of beliefs at the extreme to point out how silly it is to suggest that freedom of speech for less extreme positions is otherwise compromised.

It doesn't really matter what opinions people want to hear, or what they will tolerate in their personal lives, because those matters are aspects of freedom of speech. The act of criticizing or ignoring opinions is an act of speech. The freedom comes only in the form as independence from state sanction.



Again, just to reiterate, in no way shape or form does "freedom of speech" mean that people are entitled to not be chastised or belittled by individuals.

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Sure, we're pretty much in agreement.

I agree that The State is often more tolerant than individuals or groups, It has to be because The State encompasses all of society.

Zoolane's origanal point was about saying hurtful things to others. I think the tone of a conversation usually is set by the body language of the participants and the volume and inflections of the voice. In real life, after a bit of tentative testing the conversational water, I can insult people in a friendly way or criticise them gently. Getting across those subtleties is trickier with a keyboard.

Freedom of choice is equally as important if not more.
Freedom of speech is tricky because no one is going to tell someone not to talk the only difference is this:
Where does this freedom draw the line when one curses or uses abusive language to express themselves because that is the only way they know?
And is freedom of speech about disposing of other believes and faiths because that freedom believes that specific faith is not good enough? Can anyone blamesomeone fromn for feeling alianated towards a belief that is mostly oppressive from the outset?
That is freedom of speech to be able to express intolerance towards others.
Freedom of speech is a form of expression either negative or positive, the content of it is irrelevant, what is important is the ability to air and think outloud in front of others and everyone.
It is not about the recipient but all about the expedient.
Freedom of choice however is about all.

'Freedom Of Speech' is every person right to have that in personal and politics beliefs but to point must countries are govern by people suppress that right or go with public out cried. Yeah some are offensive to people with different culture and faiths, but why should one group be allow to have say and not other because of public rage?

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Originally Posted by prendrelemick

I agree that The State is often more tolerant than individuals or groups, It has to be because The State encompasses all of society.

Zoolane's origanal point was about saying hurtful things to others. I think the tone of a conversation usually is set by the body language of the participants and the volume and inflections of the voice. In real life, after a bit of tentative testing the conversational water, I can insult people in a friendly way or criticise them gently. Getting across those subtleties is trickier with a keyboard.

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Thank You Prendrelemick that is the question.

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R e m i n d e r

Please do not personalise your arguments.

Off-topic posts will be removed without further warning.

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Originally Posted by OrphanPip

Again, just to reiterate, in no way shape or form does "freedom of speech" mean that people are entitled to not be chastised or belittled by individuals.

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If you are in a business environment and you "chastise" or "belittle" a fellow employee over pretty much anything, you could be accused of harassment. I don't expect full freedom of speech to extend to such environments.

However, I would consider chastising or belittling someone in any environment to be verbal abuse, although legally it might be protected speech. One can make a point without belittling the person one is talking to.

Having said that it is difficult to tell after an argument has gone past reason on both sides who is doing the chastising or belittling, that is, who is the verbal abuser. My rule of thumb is the one who is dominating the verbal exchange is the abuser.

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Originally Posted by YesNo

If you are in a business environment and you "chastise" or "belittle" a fellow employee over pretty much anything, you could be accused of harassment. I don't expect full freedom of speech to extend to such environments.

However, I would consider chastising or belittling someone in any environment to be verbal abuse, although legally it might be protected speech. One can make a point without belittling the person one is talking to.

Having said that it is difficult to tell after an argument has gone past reason on both sides who is doing the chastising or belittling, that is, who is the verbal abuser. My rule of thumb is the one who is dominating the verbal exchange is the abuser.

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I like your rule, yes you can make point without being horrible or belittle people but your second paragraph sound like me and my sister relationship.

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Originally Posted by YesNo

If you are in a business environment and you "chastise" or "belittle" a fellow employee over pretty much anything, you could be accused of harassment. I don't expect full freedom of speech to extend to such environments.

However, I would consider chastising or belittling someone in any environment to be verbal abuse, although legally it might be protected speech. One can make a point without belittling the person one is talking to.

Having said that it is difficult to tell after an argument has gone past reason on both sides who is doing the chastising or belittling, that is, who is the verbal abuser. My rule of thumb is the one who is dominating the verbal exchange is the abuser.

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This is a different case. A business or a website has it's own rules that they are allowed to enforce because it's a private organization. Property rights my friend.

Thank you to everyone who took part in the thread.

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Originally Posted by Mutatis-Mutandis

Your right to say something stupid is as strong as mine to call you stupid for saying it.

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This. I think that it is too often forgotten that freedom of speech is a two way street, and that it does not mean you can say whatever you want without any consequences whatsoever. I believe that freedom of speech is one of the most important fundamental rights, but the phrase is too often abused in casual conversation and rhetoric.

This is a freedom of speech issue:
Person A expresses an unpopular opinion. The state puts Person A in prison solely for their opinion.

This is not:
Person A expresses an unpopular opinion. Person B chastises Person A for their opinion.

Nor is this:
Person A expresses a recklessly irresponsible opinion for the purpose of inciting violence. Person A is legally persecuted.

Pretty much.