School Dress Codes? Uniforms?

in my sons playschool there are uniforms, both for the kids and the teacher. he is is a school with a different curriculum than others so it's the only one in iceland that has a uniform (at least to my knowledge) except one school for kids from 6-15. I like it, they are at a good price, they are comfortable for kids to play in and like the school says 'we are all playing for the same team' . if the parents of some kids can't afford the uniform the teacher has a few extra to let the child wear while he/she is in school. the schools logo is on it and it shows a girl and a boy with a small flower between them to show equal rights and and needs for each gender.

I am all for it because I know of to many incidents where kids teased because of their clothes and what kids want to wear these days is way way more expensive than the uniform. I remember a girl who was teased a lot because her mom bought her clothes in a shop that wasn't as cool and expensive as the 'cool' kids clothes. my sons niece isn't an a equal part in her soccer team because she hasn't the right Adidas pants, the don't pass the ball to her and try and push her out of the game. this is not right and there are so many incidents like that all because of the clothes kids wear to school each day.

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Originally Posted by TheFifthElement

As far as I see it uniforms in school are at best about creating a professional image and at worst a visual demonstration of obedience. It is all very well to say it 'does no harm', but I think we ought to really be asking the question 'does it do any good'? I can think of no good practical application for them in school which is not the case when considering uniforms in employment situations. Perhaps I am missing something? If so, please someone tell me what it is.

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Seriously, what's wrong with a visual demonstration of obedience? You make it sound like the kids are being "broken" by putting them in uniforms.

There are several good practical reasons for them in school:
1) Cheaper, I had to purchase 2 skirts, ~10 blouses, 2 pairs of shoes for four years of school. I could have made it with one skirt but I took out some threads and the skirt became too short.
2) Easier to enforce a dress code.
3) Easier to decide what to wear each morning.
4) Easier to get students to submit to subcutaneous implants to track their thoughts and movement.

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Originally Posted by papayahed

Seriously, what's wrong with a visual demonstration of obedience?

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What's right with it?

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There are several good practical reasons for them in school:
1) Cheaper, I had to purchase 2 skirts, ~10 blouses, 2 pairs of shoes for four years of school. I could have made it with one skirt but I took out some threads and the skirt became too short.

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it's not necessarily cheaper. I commented on this earlier. See post 8.

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2) Easier to enforce a dress code.

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why is this 'practical'?

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3) Easier to decide what to wear each morning.

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why is this 'good'?

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4) Easier to get students to submit to subcutaneous implants to track their thoughts and movement.

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:lol: yes. Very practical.

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Originally Posted by papayahed

You make it sound like the kids are being "broken" by putting them in uniforms.

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No, that wasn't my point. I'm not concerned about individuality here. What I'm more concerned about is that a decision is taken that school uniforms are somehow 'necessary'. This is a positive decision around which school have a policy and which is enforced. This takes time and diverts resource and attention. Kids who are otherwise good students get into trouble because their shirt's come untucked. In some areas uniform policies are enforced without recourse to logic or sense, see post 8 again for an example of this. My question is, if it doesn't make you a better student what is it really there for? It's not there for safety purposes. It doesn't aid learning. It doesn't stop bullying or stop everyone from telling who the poor or neglected kids are and it doesn't prevent sexualisation. People have proven themselves perfectly capable of being good, dedicated, respectful students without needing a uniform. So why have it?

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Originally Posted by papayahed

4) Easier to get students to submit to subcutaneous implants to track their thoughts and movement.

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:smilielol5: I like this one. Now if only it were true, maybe I would worry less about my kids when they're teens ;)

I wore school uniform as it's pretty much de rig. in England but it didn't bother me at all. My one refraction was to wear gaudily patterned ties when I got into the 6th form. I don't think school uniform makes a great deal of difference to a person's education except, perhaps, to teach children that the world doesn't revolve exclusively around them. However, even in enforced uniformity, some childrern will be smarter than others. Like most of the school I wasn't particularly tidy but there was one kid called Waldemeyer who looked amazingly suave and sophisticated in his blazer and flannels: a sort of cross between Anton Walbrook and Cary grant. He made even the teachers look scruffy.

I think the argument of is it cheaper or not depends on whether your child is materialistic or not. It sounds like these uniforms aren't cheap as opposed to shopping at K-Mart, but definitely cheaper than a trip to Abercrombie and Fitch at the Mall...

I would have to agree with papayahed completely here.

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Originally Posted by TheFifthElement

This is a positive decision around which school have a policy and which is enforced. This takes time and diverts resource and attention. Kids who are otherwise good students get into trouble because their shirt's come untucked. In some areas uniform policies are enforced without recourse to logic or sense, see post 8 again for an example of this.

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This has nothing to do with Uniform Dress Code, and everything to do with HOW it is enforced. Attention could also likely be diverted and time taken to enforce non-uniform dress codes to the same ridiculous standards if an administration so chose to. Just because someone could go overboard in the implementation of the code, does not make the dress code bad.

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My question is, if it doesn't make you a better student what is it really there for? It's not there for safety purposes. It doesn't aid learning. It doesn't stop bullying or stop everyone from telling who the poor or neglected kids are and it doesn't prevent sexualisation. People have proven themselves perfectly capable of being good, dedicated, respectful students without needing a uniform. So why have it?

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I don't think that it has been documented that school uniforms do not at least AID in a better learning environment. There are those who have thrown around their own ideas about it. But just because someone SAYS that uniforms don't aid in improving the learning environment, it does not make it so.

According to my own opinion, I feel that uniforms WOULD make better students (even if it is just slightly). I feel that it would create less distraction and sexualization (again, even if just slightly).

I checked a couple of studies, and the results seem to indicate that there is no major effect, but maybe a slight improvement. However, social aspects are very difficult to measure. The studies only seemed to measure test scores, absenteeism, etc. These aspects are much more greatly effect by other influences, such as parental involvement and even cultural aspects. To say that there is NO GOOD from uniform policies is saying too much.

I don't care much for anything which suppresses the individual. Though, I can't say there are no benefits from uniforms, because there are, but i'm rather glad I didn't have to wear one. A middle ground in my opinion would be a set of several outfits that you can choose from.

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Originally Posted by Nietzsche

I don't care much for anything which suppresses the individual. Though, I can't say there are no benefits from uniforms, because there are, but i'm rather glad I didn't have to wear one. A middle ground in my opinion would be a set of several outfits that you can choose from.

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A very reasonable stance...thank you for such an honest consideration...
:iagree:

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Originally Posted by Nietzsche

A middle ground in my opinion would be a set of several outfits that you can choose from.

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There are several outfits in the uniform that you can choose from. Golf shirt (long sleeve or short sleeve), dress shirt (long sleeve or short sleeve), sweater, vest, sweatshirt, etc.

My only complaint is that the uniforms are expensive. My school eliminated white golf shirts, probably because it didn't want students to buy them from cheaper places like Old Navy.

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Originally Posted by The Comedian

And I think serious cat would approve of them (waves to Serious cat) because they would help create a more studious atmosphere in general (but by no means create one).

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It's so hard to be sure. It should be relatively easy to explore by looking at the pass rate of similar socio-economically grouped schools with different uniform codes, but it doesn't quite work like that.

You probably couldn't do it here or in UK, because uniforms are the norm and only the "liberal" schools have no uniform rules and the liberalism tends to contain a disdain for pass marks as well.

I can report that the two schools voted as the worst in Auckland were two without uniforms. They both changed management and introduced uniforms and now rate among the best. One of them rated #1 in the country. It certainly isn't any kind of evidence because the uniforms came as part of massive changes in culture and teaching methods which are a lot more likely to matter.

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Originally Posted by MarkBastable

At my school it was whipping for a first offence, followed by an escalation of punishments for subsequent transgressions that culminated in the public crucifixion of incorrigible non-tuckers-in-of-shirts.

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Those Catholic schools are hell on that, eh? Every single one I've been in has a bloke nailed to the wall without a uniform.

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Originally Posted by Katy North

I think the argument of is it cheaper or not depends on whether your child is materialistic or not. It sounds like these uniforms aren't cheap as opposed to shopping at K-Mart, but definitely cheaper than a trip to Abercrombie and Fitch at the Mall...

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It also depends on the uniform.

Primary school uniforms can vary between $50 a set at a lower decile school - polo shirt and tracksuit pants - to $200 at a higher decile one.

I'd be a lot more in favour of uniforms if schools tried to minimise the cost by using cheaper, but effective, options.

Ditto EVERYTHING TheFifthElement said. Once again, you have put into words how I feel much more eloquently than I ever could.

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Originally Posted by AmericanEagle

because it didn't want students to buy them from cheaper places like Old Navy.

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Does.........AmericanEagle...carry them?

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Originally Posted by BienvenuJDC

Does.........AmericanEagle...carry them?

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Yes, American Eagle carries them, but most of their golf shirts have an eagle logo on them, so you can't really pass them off as a school uniform.

I attended a middle/high school with a dress code (and attend a college with uniforms..), and honestly it was pretty nice. My dress code dictated no jeans, sweatpants, large logos, overly short skirts, etc. Everybody looked presentable and relatively professional. Though obviously there still were cliques and different groups, but clothes weren't as much of an issue. My school may have been unusual, but people were divided more into drinkers/non-drinkers than stuff based off of outward appearance. Uniforms would have probably made it even better. Dress codes/uniforms for all wouldn't mean that students would just sit around holding hands, but it makes one less point of contention.

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As far as I see it uniforms in school are at best about creating a professional image and at worst a visual demonstration of obedience. It is all very well to say it 'does no harm', but I think we ought to really be asking the question 'does it do any good'? I can think of no good practical application for them in school which is not the case when considering uniforms in employment situations. Perhaps I am missing something? If so, please someone tell me what it is.

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What's wrong with a "visual demonstration of obedience"? Even showing up at school is in some ways a demonstration of obedience. The students have to obey and respect the teacher, it's the only way school works. When they get real jobs, a lot of students are going to have to abide by a dress code (shirt &tie/suit/whatever) and I think that good comes from getting people used to that.