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Memories of the 28th Century

Logical Problems in Climate Change

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Although the easiest place to find poor logic is in the climate change arguments; poor reasoning and logical fallacies are frequently used in most science, politics, and other large issues. In a perfect world the campaign for presidency of the U.S.A. would be a matter of logical arguments, and voters could decide who to vote for on the basis of logic and evidence, but instead there has been a long series of ad hominem arguments.

Unfortunately, it seems that people are happy to present items as evidence that have been demonstrated to be false, and the public seems to be willing to accept such behavior.

There are significant problems with the accuracy and significance of temperatures records that have been used to show that anthropogenic climate change has occurred. A number of years ago massive falsification of temperature records by people at the University of East Anglia was discovered (link below). The people involved were punished, and the records were restored to their original condition. Recently similar falsification by NASA was discovered (link below). NASA claimed that they were correcting errors in the original records, but they did not have a time machine, so they had no way of telling what those should have been. Since then some of the records have been repaired, while others are still in altered condition, but the original information may still be available from other sources. NASA has been, and apparently still is, using information that is inaccurate to make conclusions about climate.

The data that was used to create the “hockey stick” graph was developed from tree ring data. Tree rings are much more responsive to rainfall than to temperature, and no explanation has been provided as to how temperature data was derived from the data. It is conceivable that there is a reliable way to determine temperatures from tree rings, but I have never seen anything that did that.

Other people have used ice cores as sources of information about past temperatures, and that source is vastly superior to tree rings, and it shows a very different pattern in historical temperatures, see links below.

The ice core data shows a cyclical pattern of climate change that has been going on for the last ten thousand years, which includes the period when human activity could have been significant to climate, but there was an extreme drop in temperatures about 8,000 years ago. These data clearly show that the Medieval Warm Period, the Roman Warm Period, the Little Ice Age, and the Dark Ages cool period happened, and these periods agree with information we have about what crops were being grown in various areas; viniferous grapes in Great Britain during the Roman Warm Period and in the last fifteen years only, as one example.

If we were to base conclusions about climate change on data derived from ice core data, then we would conclude that both recently and for the last few thousand years there has been climate variation within the normal range that has existed for the last ten thousand years. Occam’s Razor dictates that no additional matters should be considered, because one should not add unnecessary factors.

Unfortunately, the climate change panickers came up with additional factors that led to humans causing climate change. The main item is considering carbon dioxide a greenhouse gas. The greenhouse effect is created by molecular dipoles in the atmosphere absorbing infra-red radiation and thus warming the atmosphere as a whole. Carbon dioxide is not a molecular dipole, but it absorbs a small amount of IR in its transverse vibrations. Water vapor and methane are the principal greenhouse gases in our atmosphere, with water accounting for about 95% of the greenhouse warming. To be a dipole a molecule must be asymmetrical, and carbon dioxide is symmetrical, but it does absorb some IR. It was found in the 1950’s that all of the IR in the range that CO2 absorbs is absorbed within one hundred yards at sea level, so adding CO2 could not result in more IR being absorbed or a greater greenhouse effect; This item seems to have been ignored recently.

Then there is the question of the “chicken or the egg”. Has climate change been caused by more CO2 being added to the atmosphere by human activity, or has warming since the end of the Little Ice Age increased the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere that was produced by the decomposition of vegetable matter? His question is open, but the evidence leans toward CO2 having been increased by warming. Most atmospheric CO2 is from the decomposition of vegetable matter, and in recent years that has been more decomposition going on in northern forest and in muskeg and swamps and peat bogs. Some areas that were in permafrost have melted and the vegetation there is rotting.

We can be quite confident that the Earth’s temperature is somewhere around the middle of the range of the last 1,000 years and 10,000 years. And there is no sign the human activity has altered climate; although it is possible that human activity has increased temperatures by a fraction of a degree.

The question that remains is: Why have the ACC people been pushing an argument that is not supported by the facts? I’ll get to this at some time in the future.


I felt like putting the record straight. If you use actual facts and fair logic, then you usually end up with reasonable conclusions, and that's what I did here. I might also have included a discussion of the agriculture of Greenland a thousand years ago, when barley grew there; although it hasn’t warmed enough for barley to ripen these days.


East Anglia data affair
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/c...eneration.html

NASA Data fraud
http://principia-scientific.org/nasa...te-data-fraud/
http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2015...-climate-data/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/eart...ndal-ever.html

Ice Cores temperatures
http://www.ncdc.noaa.gov/paleo/ctl/clisci10k.html
http://joannenova.com.au/2010/02/the...rature-swings/

Greenland colony
http://www2.sunysuffolk.edu/mandias/...uring_mwp.html
http://sciencenordic.com/vikings-grew-barley-greenland

Carbon Dioxide IR absorption
https://www3.epa.gov/ttnemc01/guidlnd/gd-052.pdf
http://irina.eas.gatech.edu/EAS8803_Fall2009/Lec6.pdf


Greenhouse gases percentage contribution to warming Earth
"Human activates contribute slightly to greenhouse gas concentrations through farming, manufacturing, power generation, and transportation. However, these emissions are so dwarfed in comparison to emissions from natural sources we can do nothing about, that even the most costly efforts to limit human emissions would have a very small-- perhaps undetectable-- effect on global climate."
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html

Updated 07-05-2016 at 04:55 PM by PeterL (notes and links added)

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Comments

  1. Pompey Bum's Avatar
    "These data clearly show that the Medieval Warm Period, the Roman Warm Period, the Little Ice Age, and the Dark Ages cool period happened"

    Don't forget the Younger Dryas!
  2. PeterL's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Pompey Bum

    Don't forget the Younger Dryas!
    And so on. I'm not planning to write a book on this, and the amount of data is huge, if I include everything. Sometimes I think of the indirect evidence of Mediaval climate change that we have , and it makes a great story.
  3. Pompey Bum's Avatar
    Mmmm. I just like the name Younger Dryas. It sounds like a slur for millennials. The YD itself was (I think) a kind of unexpected curtain call for the Wurm Ice Age. And let's face it, the Wurm deserved it.

    It is scary, though, when evidence-supported arguments (correct or otherwise) become a kind of illicit thought. That's what's happened here, you denier, you. When the Environmental Apocalypse comes, mother Gaia is going to warm you up first. Anyway, thanks (as always) for the fresh perspective.
    Updated 07-04-2016 at 01:38 PM by Pompey Bum
  4. PeterL's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Pompey Bum
    Mmmm. I just like the name Younger Dryas. It sounds like a slur for millennials. The YD itself was (I think) a kind of unexpected curtain call for the Wurm Ice Age. And let's face it, the Wurm deserved it.
    Agreed.

    It is scary, though, when evidence-supported arguments (correct or otherwise) become a kind of illicit thought. That's what's happened here, you denier, you. When the Environmental Apocalypse comes, mother Gaia is going to warm you up first. Anyway, thanks (as always) for the fresh perspective.
    Yes, it is rather frightening that dogmatic presentations become public policy. We probably should blame primary and secondary school teachers who allow people to pass through without learning how arguments are constructed in a logical discussion.
  5. Pompey Bum's Avatar
    Most primary and secondary school teachers are handed their curricula. You'd do better to blame the various political interests that fund them. The teachers themselves get blamed too much. And as Mao showed, torturing them gets boring after a while.

    Peter, have you taken on transexual bathrooms/gym showers yet? I would love to hear your thoughts on the subject someday. Consider it your first request. :)
    Updated 07-05-2016 at 03:00 PM by Pompey Bum
  6. PeterL's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Pompey Bum
    Most primary and secondary school teachers are handed their curricula. You'd do better to blame the various political interests that fund them. The teachers themselves get blamed too much. And as Mao showed, torturing them gets boring after a while.
    I was not blaming the teachers themselves. Most of what is presented to students in the primary and secondary schools is laid out by central authorities, but I suspect that many teachers would have trouble teaching logic or reasoning.

    Peter, have you taken on transexual bathrooms/gym showers yet? I would love to hear your thoughts on the subject someday. Consider it your first request.
    I think it is a silly issue, but if we want a reasonable policy and to separate the sexes, then what someone has for sex chromosomes should rule; i.e., XY or XX. If someone has a combination other than XY or XX, then we would have to think about it. Beyond that I don't think there is much to say on the subject. I wonder what percentage of humans have sex chromosomes other than XY and XX.
  7. Pompey Bum's Avatar
    Well, it gets to be more of an issue with school showers. It's also a classic case of: "Dear Colleague, Do this or lose your budget." But okay, it's your blog. I'm sure you are right about the qualifications of most teachers, but then teachers aren't much valued in the "real world" of the American workplace (despite some saccharin lip service from time to time). So garbage in, garbage out. And we'd have to go through several unlikely cultural gyrations to change that much. But yes, that's part of the reason most millennials wouldn't know logic if it bit them in the asp. (The Internet is the other part).
    Updated 07-05-2016 at 08:08 PM by Pompey Bum
  8. PeterL's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Pompey Bum
    Well, it gets to be more of an issue with school showers. It's also a classic case of: "Dear Colleague, Do this or lose your budget."
    It is only an issue, because certain mental illnesses have been redefined to being normal. It wasn't very long ago, when someone who was convinced that he or sah was really of the other sex would have been treated; I am not referring to sexual preference but to identifying oneself.

    But okay, it's your blog. I'm sure you are right about the qualifications of most teachers, but then teachers aren't much valued in the "real world" of the American workplace (despite some saccharin lip service from time to time). So garbage in, garbage out. And we'd have to go through several unlikely cultural gyrations to change that much. But yes, that's part of the reason most millennials wouldn't know logic if it bit them in the asp. (The Internet is the other part).
    In the U.S. teachers are truly not valued. If they were valued, then the pay would be high enough to attract the most qualified people. The deterioration of education has been going on for a long time. The first large drop in standards was shortly after the Civil War, when high schools started teaching "vocational" subjects at all. Then by the end of the 19th century Ancient Greek was dropped from the curriculum. It has been one cut in standards after another since then. Hell, now people can get into college without even a year of Latin. If one looks back at the 19th cnentury, one sees that high school teachers were some of the best educated people in the country.
  9. Pompey Bum's Avatar
    I couldn't agree more about the educational standards of American teachers. I suppose there is an argument to be made that the industrialization that followed the Civil War had a role in the anti-intellectualism you're talking about. You don't want your workers thinking for themselves too much, and competitive industrialists had no use for Greek and Latin. I think also of Henry Ford who was an outspoken anti-intellectual and who despised classical learning. Anyway, I'm not sure what Americans expect from educators these days. It's like shooting a horse then beating it for not pulling the wagon.
  10. PeterL's Avatar
    Most people wanted more education, but , as you pointed out, the industrialists had no use for intellectuals. There was no money in classical education, and there weren't enough people to teach all of the students who were looking for higher education, so the standards plummetted. And the standards have continued top drop. Today's college graduates have less general education than I had when I graduated from high school, and my parents had almost that much education by the time they finished eighth grade.

    I don't think that Americans know what they would like to get from educators either. There seems to be a general sort of anti-intellectualism right along side of a desire to know more. I just remembered another issue that is relevant. Most people don't believe that anyone is much more intelligent than they are, but that tendency decreases as intelligence increases, so people with IQ's of 125 understand that there are people who are smarter than they, but people with IQ's of 85 think that other people have about the same intelligence as they do. That thinking is a problem in educational planning, and it puts a restriction on how much people can fail. If the people with IQ's of 85 flunk out at grade four level, they will wonder, and they will rebel against paying for people getting education that they can't understand, and there are other consequences of this.
  11. Pompey Bum's Avatar
    But what would happen among the greatest geniuses? Would they believe (falsely) that there were many others smarter than them? Perhaps this is what Socrates meant by: "I know nothing, but I know that I know nothing."
  12. PeterL's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Pompey Bum
    But what would happen among the greatest geniuses? Would they believe (falsely) that there were many others smarter than them? Perhaps this is what Socrates meant by: "I know nothing, but I know that I know nothing."
    Almost, people of high intelligence can imagine someone being smarter than they are, as was true of the most ignorant man in Athens, but they have a sense of proportion.