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I Just Don't Get It

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This may be a very sudden observation of things that have always been, or maybe I am not crazy and there has been an onslaught of the "I Believe in God/This is why God exists/I give my life to God" threads and blogs. I have no problem with belief or discussion of belief. Unless someone shoves it in my face and says "HEY! YOU! LISTEN! BELIEVE IN GOD BECAUSE I DO!" I pretty much don't really care. I don't have the knowledge or wisdom to argue or agree, so I just let those threads be.

However, what I don't get is where the hell people find this unshakable belief. Yes, I have heard of the first person accounts of hearing God speak in a thunderstorm on a mountain, of how the beauty and complexity of nature is proof enough, and about 'miracles' that could only be God's doing. Let me tell you a little story. A very short story, actually.

As a younger person, I used to struggle with the belief. I wanted to believe. I wanted there to be some reason to what seemed like a very chaotic, unreasonable life. I was lost. Not to say I am found today, but now I just like to consider myself somewhere slightly off course between points A and B. I digress- as a younger person, I struggled. I walked in the woods trying to spark up a conversation with God, I've sat on mountaintops in thunderstorms, I've tossed whiskey bottles off cliffs, I've discussed it with people, you name it I've done it. Lo and behold- here I am, faithless. That doesn't concern me. I don't think there's probably much forgiveness to be had for me. What I don't understand, is how people just out of the blue 'got touched by God.' When people say 'All you have to do is let Jesus into your heart,' it kind of makes me want to strangle a panda. Let me tell you something- I don't let **** into my heart. I've let people that I know into my heart and it never ends well. I'm not going to let someone I can't even have a conversation with in.

Another thing I don't get. (I apologize, this is turning into somewhat of an attacking rant. Please don't take it personally; I had a spark ignite.) People that just give themselves up to 'be in God's service.' That seems to me almost like pledging your life to the service of Dark Matter. We can't see it, we don't have any proof it exists, we don't know how it works, but we know it's there. As humans, we have reason and intuition. If we were created to serve God, why were we given the choice to do otherwise? I don't get it. I have never read the Bible, nor the Koran, nor the Book of Mormon. I never will.

And if I am ever supposed to serve in God's name, he better be willing to sit down and have a brewsky or two with me.

After that little tantrum, let me say this: I am not an atheist. I am not a theist. An easier way of saying these two things would be to say I am agnostic. I don't have enough proof or belief to go either way, though I tend to lean a little farther off the fence towards atheism simply because my attempts at faith never prove productive.

Updated 12-01-2011 at 08:58 AM by skib

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  1. Buh4Bee's Avatar
    This has meaning Skib.

    "This may be a very sudden observation of things that have always been, or maybe I am not crazy and there has been an onslaught of the "I Believe in God/This is why God exists/I give my life to God" threads and blogs. I have no problem with belief or discussion of belief. Unless someone shoves it in my face and says "HEY! YOU! LISTEN! BELIEVE IN GOD BECAUSE I DO!" I pretty much don't really care. I don't have the knowledge or wisdom to argue or agree, so I just let those threads be."

    I avoid these threads too! And I have faith.
  2. Dark Muse's Avatar
    For obvious reasons I myself make an effort to avoid such threads, for while I respect every one's right to beleive what they want, I do not always agree with certain beliefs and I am naturally inclined to like to argue, so I don't tempt myself.

    I quite enjoyed this post and agree with a lot of what you said about, I have to admit when I had first joined up with Litnet I felt like kind of the odd man out, though no one has been disrespectful to myself or beleifs, I just noticed there seemed to be a strong Christian population here. And I don't mean that negatively, just an observation.
  3. mtpspur's Avatar
    There are Christians and there are Christians--I'm one of the grumpy one )) Have always enjoyed your individualty and am way behnd on your poetry. Did oyu ever get the sword cane???
  4. mtpspur's Avatar
    Oops--above commets were meant for DarkMuse. Who should be used to me by now.
  5. Dark Muse's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by mtpspur
    There are Christians and there are Christians--I'm one of the grumpy one )) Have always enjoyed your individualty and am way behnd on your poetry. Did oyu ever get the sword cane???
    No unfortunately I have not yet figured out how to arrange that, but I have not given up on that desire either. Perhaps someday. And who knows I may end up living somewhere in which I won't have to evade the law to own one.
  6. mtpspur's Avatar
    I was always fascnated by the sword cane--partially becase of a fondness for Zorro but mostly becase a member of Doc Savage's team (pulp hero from the 1930s/40s) --'Ham' Broooks always carried and used it.
  7. Dark Muse's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by mtpspur
    I was always fascnated by the sword cane--partially becase of a fondness for Zorro but mostly becase a member of Doc Savage's team (pulp hero from the 1930s/40s) --'Ham' Broooks always carried and used it.
    They are pretty awesome. They make me think of the Renaissance. If I remember correctly, in Othello, there is a dagger that is pulled out of a cane.

    Sorry to Skib for getting off topic in your blog.
  8. skib's Avatar
    No worries! By all means continue! I'm intrigued by the sword/dagger cane. Do they come with umbrellas too?
  9. qimissung's Avatar
    I avoid those threads, too. Well, they do have that whole religious section, but I never noticed that there was a strong Christian element. There are a few people who blog who are into that.

    I believe in something, but while I have lately kind of wished for a way to be a part of something worshipful I have not yet figured out a way to do that that is meaningful to me that does not involve anything mainstream, or wearing a dress. Or getting up early.

    I feel the same way about politics. I'm more of the liberal persuasion and I'm always like why would anybody even want to be a Republican, but apparently they do. And I avoid all those threads because I too, do not wish to get involved in pointless arguments. Live and let live and all that.

    I really think religion exists to help humanity be better, kinder people; to help them reign in their baser impulses; to come together collectively to experience awe; to believe together that life is sacred. Obviously it has a rather spotty track record of success in these things, but that's what I think anyway, Skib.

    I wish you success on your particular journey of discovery. Maybe somewhere, sometime you will find something beautiful to believe in.
    Updated 12-03-2011 at 12:46 AM by qimissung
  10. qimissung's Avatar
    hehe, the sword/dagger cane makes me think of Bat Masterson, for some reason.
  11. Dark Muse's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by skib
    No worries! By all means continue! I'm intrigued by the sword/dagger cane. Do they come with umbrellas too?
    I bet there is somewhere you could find one if you looked
  12. JuniperWoolf's Avatar
    When people say 'All you have to do is let Jesus into your heart,' it kind of makes me want to strangle a panda.
  13. skib's Avatar
    qimi- I absolutely agree that when applied properly, religion and spirituality help society better itself. This blog came out somewhat angrily partly because I may be the slightest bit bitter at my failure in finding faith, but when I sat down to write it, my intent was purely to discuss my lack of understanding of where faith comes from. Also, it hasn't just been on Litnet I've found these faith-heavy focuses. Everywhere I've been in the last few days has been like that. Again, they merely gave me the spark to write about my misunderstanding. For some reason I lost my focus.
  14. prendrelemick's Avatar
    Of the faithful, I reckon about 10% get it, 20% think they get it, and the rest hope they get it.
  15. mtpspur's Avatar
    Let's see if I can at least get an entry on the thread that doesn't relate to sword canes and pulp heroes. My faith is based on Protestant doctrines --leaning heavily on Calvinism--without the doom and gloom since historical Calvinism is almost unrecognizeable in todays circles and my own beliefs are well watreed down as well. I would be troubled at the thought of FORCING any beliefs on anyone. I simply--within reason share my opinion on what I believe is truth as related to eternal matters. Again I like to think I can find reasonable proof on the Bible for any claims I may make. At the end of the day I believe in a merciful and mysterious God who really should NOT be judged by MY behavior or any other as I could easily go on and on about churches and the lack of a real fellowship. But even the Avengers don't always watch out for their own. Had to be typed. All kidding aside--to belive or not is your decision and always will be. The only thought I would even attempt to impress on you if the Bible is not trustworthy move on--if it holds value it might be your best interest to see if it holds value for YOU. No attempt to offend is intended and I'm long past worrying what non-believers think of Christians -as I often agree with them. )
  16. LadyLuck's Avatar
    What can I say, I'm Catholic, raised that way, and tend to ebb in and out of strength of belief. I can pinpoint my turning event that really made me believe there was someone looking out for me my own little miracle, but overall I tend to be of the "God helps them who help themselves" philosophy. I don't have a strong faith, but I believe in something. I believe in love and family and all the many lessons I learned in church as a child. I follow the basic code of behavior, I don't steal, cheat, kill... I lie on occasion, but normally for a reason. I've committed sins that I'm entirely unrepentant for and held to vows I likely shouldn't have. As for the faith focus, it tends to happen around Christmas time. I don't always get all the fervor around this time, but it happens... It just does
  17. Virgil's Avatar
    Well Skib, I haven’t been on the boards for about a year, so I’m not familiar with the current events. But in my five years of being a regular on the boards it was my experience that such religious and atheists outbursts come in cycles. I’m not sure what sets it off. And then what happens is that the discussion becomes a food fight between the two groups as each feels slighted. Perhaps a new member joins and starts a discussion and like minded people re-iterate for the umpteenth time the same arguments over and over.

    The root of the problem is that Lit Net is not really a literature forum any more, if it ever was. Just think of it. How many people here on the blogs even join literature discussions on a regular basis? I know Dark Muse did and I know I did, but I can’t vouch for anyone else. I don’t want to slight anyone, but the key phrase there is “a regular basis.” And I’m not including the creative writing sections as literature. Creative writing may be akin to literature (our writing hopes to aspire to literature) but it’s not literature. A literature forum if it were to be a true literature forum limits itself to published works and perhaps of writer’s lives since their life could put the literature into context.

    So given there isn’t that discipline of holding discussions to literature, what happens is that hot button subjects pop up. Hot button subjects are those that penetrate a certain nerve, and not just deal with ideas, but are intertwined with a person’s identity. My goodness, Atheist (the person on the forum, if he’s still here) has his whole identity wrapped up into proselytizing his atheism. Hot button subjects are not just religion, but politics, socializing (like your strip pool experience), work experience, family life, sports, personal moods. I bet most people spend most of their time here on those threads rather than a real literature thread. There are people on Lit Net that never participate in a single literature discussion.

    I can’t speak for this past year, but it was a bit different when I first joined. At least that was my perception. Yeah, there were the hot button subjects, but there were regulars here that discussed poetry in detail, novels, short stories, and writers. Some of the literature enthusiast seemed to have faded away. I really miss Jeanine’s DH Lawrence Short Story thread. I’m also not putting down the creative writing threads; those are usually pleasurable, but it got tiring for everyone complimenting each other without any real critique, and when I offered critique the writer got abrasive.

    What seemed to evolve here were cliques forming and arguments raging on disagreements over the hot button subjects. I wish we could have argued over literature with such passion, but it hardly ever happened. If you read the rules of the Religious Text forum, it clearly states that discussion are to be limited to understanding of the texts, not a theological discussion of whether God exists, and certainly not proselytizing. But that’s not what happens. In the five years I participated on Lit Net, you could probably count on one hand the number of times a religious text was discussed for its literary value. I brought this up the moderators (I think more than once), but I never got a response. My hunch is that it attracts members and threads, and therefore helps their bottom line. When the “Serious Discussion” forum was created, I knew then that was the last straw for me.
  18. skib's Avatar
    Again- my apologies for the somewhat inappropriate outburst. My intentions were to announce my vast misunderstanding of where people find their faith, rather than shooting it down. I have no issues with blogs or articles or discussions of it, I have learned to stay out of the hot-button issues and away from the ones that bother me. I was never a part of the original gang that was here to discuss literature, and to be honest I would rather read something that someone wrote yesterday than discuss what Steinbeck meant when he wrote 'Timshel.' I am here because I enjoy the company.
  19. JuniperWoolf's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by Virgil
    What seemed to evolve here were cliques forming and arguments raging on disagreements over the hot button subjects. I wish we could have argued over literature with such passion, but it hardly ever happened.
    You've obviously not read many of JBI or SLG's posts.
  20. Virgil's Avatar
    Quote Originally Posted by JuniperWoolf
    You've obviously not read many of JBI or SLG's posts.
    Why obvious? I said most, not all. I have had many discussions with JBI and St Lukes. I would consider them among what's great with Lit Net. Most memorable are our Poetry Book Club we started. I can't remember who's idea it was first (vague memory it was JBI's) but I was there at the start. Here's an example of one poetry book club thread:
    http://www.online-literature.com/for...=50876&page=11