Nostalgia

In my country the only people who are legally allowed to have guns are the Army, the Police and farmers... The fact that people can apply for a gun licence in the states even if they arent under any of those catagories worries me. In the wrong hands guns are dangerous and i know you probably think that hes getting at the responsible shooters but the whole point is to try crack down on the illigal gun issue in your country.

Actually, there is no licensing required to own a firearm in the US. Whenever a person purchases a gun, there is an extensive background check done, even if you have had multiple checks done. As for handguns being dangerous- I disagree. The handguns that are purchased legally are not the ones that are being used for crime. The guns that are being used in violent crimes are the ones that are being bought illegally in Mexico and on the black market. I have heard of several towns around the United States that do not require even a concealed carry permit to conceal a handgun, and the crime rates in those towns are almost nonexistent. Granted, this tactic would in all likelihood not work in larger cities.
Thank you for saying 'in the wrong hands' though! However, the ratio of responsible gun users to un-responsible gun users is far greater than people seem to realize. I would rather walk around in a city knowing that there are people with concealed carry permits as well as people with illegal guns, rather than walk around in a city wondering how many illegal guns there are around me and knowing that if someone does open up that I am at their mercy.

Not necessarilly. Someone who ligally owns a fire arm regardless of what type it is, could quite easily be in cahoots with a gang and either A) help supply them with arms and purchase amo for them or B) let them use theirs.
Also from what i can gather alot of the shooting in schools were done with weapons permitted to people. And hand guns are dangerous. Thats why they are called a weapon.

Very true, but of all the people I know who own firearms (which is the majority of the people I know,) none of them are in cahoots with a gang. Nobody that is responsible with a gun is going to be supplying gangs with guns and ammunition. Those that own guns understand the implications and responsibilities of owning that gun. Nobody with a lick of sense is going to allow someone use their registered firearm for a crime. Every gun purchased legally is registered with the government.
I agree with you completely- guns are dangerous. Anybody that uses them or has used them understands what they can do. Those that do not understand how dangerous a gun is has no business handling them, but they also have no business telling those responsible firearm owners that they should not have them.
I'm not sure about the school shootings- I have grown up primarily in rural areas where every household has one or more guns, where people know and understand how to use guns. You may very well be right about the guns used to shoot up schools being permitted. Even so, all the more reason to allow teachers to have concealed weapons (Along with PROPER education on using that firearm. This means taking the certified Concealed Carry course instructed by a certified government firearm educator- AKA a cop.) However, there are always guns available to those who want them. Guns will be obtained illegally if they are unavailable to be purchased legally.

If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns.

I carry a gun because I can't carry a cop.

If one would rather be helpless to defend themselves, more power to you. I would a lot rather have the ability to defend myself against someone that is trying to harm me or those I love.

I never accused people you know of being associated this way i was using it as an example as i am sure you are aware. Just because someone has a permit, and is believed to be responsible with a gun does not mean they dont have dodgy dealings. It is not just those that carry illegal firearms that a person should be worried about. I would not feel safe around ANY one who carried a gun regardless as to whether it was legally or not. Even those that are trained and permitted to hold a gun can make mistakes with them.
Every country has their gun and gang problem and I think allowing more people to carry firearms only adds to the problem and doesnt solve anything. It just means that a gun can be more accessable to people who are not trustworthy. Saying that teachers should be allowed to hold guns is a terrifying concept.
I think it is truely sad that people believe that they need to be allowed to carry a gun because they dont feel safe without them.
Personally i think there should be stricker gun laws in the states.

I believe I do see your point. Your point is that, even if someone appears to be responsible does not make them responsible. Unfortunately, it is that way in all aspects of life- doctors, Catholic priests, mechanics, etc. Gun owners are no different.
I am going to take it by your earlier statement about only the Army, cops and farmers being allowed to own firearms, that you either have not ever or have had extremely limited experience with firearms. Feeling safe around guns can only be obtained by using them frequently. I've been handling guns since I was six or seven years old, as well as my sister. My grandfather taught us both how to use one safely, and out of all those folks I used in my previous statement, none of them have ever suffered an accidental gunshot wound. Yes, accidents happen. There are hunters every year who are done hunting for the day, they lean the gun against the truck and their dog knocks it over, setting off the firearm and killing the person. Accidents do happen, but only because of lapses in safety-oriented thinking.
I disagree that banning guns will solve the problem. There are unregistered guns transported all over the world, and there is no way to stop that. In the development of guns, a monster has been created. Unfortunately, it is a monster that will never be defeated. There will forever be the flow of illegally obtained firearms around the world, and without the counterbalance of responsible gun owners to protect themselves, crime rates would skyrocket due to innocent people's inability to defend themselves against someone wanting to harm them. I know of nobody that would knowingly rob a house or business that houses or employs one who is familiar with a gun. (except some moron in my town that tried to rob a gun store- with a gun. He did not walk away from the incident.)
I never said I do not feel safe without a gun. I said I feel more safe, knowing I can defend myself if I have to. Yes it is sad that there is a need for anyone to have to protect themselves at all. In a perfect world, everybody would get along, there would be no need to defend oneself against anything- verbal or physical. Unfortunately, this world is far from perfect. There is a need for people to defend themselves. It is sad that this is necessary, but it is necessary nonetheless.
(please forgive me for jumping around with my replies)
I believe you are missing my point about illegally obtained firearms- illegal meaning purchased in a country where guns are easily found (such as Mexico) and transporting it into a country (like the US.) This unregistered gun is sold to a gangbanger in Denver, Colorado. This gangbanger has a problem with drugs. This gangbanger needs his methamphetamines, and he is broke. He decides to rob the innocent school teacher he sees going home after work. He did not obtain this gun through a responsible gun owner. Responsible gun owners will not just lend out their $600 pistol to someone. That gun is registered with the United States government, that man has been fingerprinted, and if his gun is found at a crime scene, that man will go to jail.

I have been around guns. I have farmers in my family and have lived as a tenent on a farming estate.
I've said it before elsewhere and i'm gonna say it again, letting a six year old anywhere near a gun is not good in my book.
And i did understand your whole thing about illegally obtaining guns. It was an obvious thing hence why i didnt highlight it and only mentioned that all countrys have these problems. It just means that the US Customs should be stricker with their borders and security. (as many other countries should too)
And i do believe a proper licencing system and stricker laws would work. If they can work in many other parts of the world, i'm sure they could work in the states.
I think we should agree to disagree on this.

I believe you are right! Thank you for that very lively discussion!

I never worry about the current situation. It always changes and my worse fears rarely get realized. Helps when you have of real value to get excited about losing. s to firearms many a barn wall owes its life to my inability to hit a target plus the Mrs. never wanted firearms in the house though both my boys are highly skilled in their use. Never knew ammo was a problem but then again never had to worry about its purchase. Licensing/registration in Ohio seems relatively easy from all I hear.

I don't know much about Ohio. I know they have some different rules on ammunition, but buying a gun is very easy. You go in to the store, say "I want that gun," have your background check done (and if it is clean of child molestation, murder and armed robbery) you pay them, they give you the gun, and you go home and shoot it. (BTW- background checks are much more thorough than I portray. They investigate even the smallest of things on your record.)
I do not have a whole heckuva lot to lose- I don't own any property other than my truck, and even it isn't worth all that much. My guns are the next most precious things I own, and I protect them and my rights to bear them with my life. I know, it sounds a little extreme, but not being able to use them strips me of my most favorite right.

reading this couldnt help thinking of this chris rock clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cce2xX594_M&NR=1

That chris rock clip is hilarious.
Arguing about gun control is as usless and neverending as arguing about god.
Ben, I got you some 223 for your birthday.
I can find 243 anywhere I need so HA!!!
And I firmly believe in the old saying "If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns."
And thats all I have to say about that.

Yes, Kevin, I know you got me some .223 for my birthday. Guess what?? Its gone.
Welcome back.

National public radio attributes this outrageously false reporting of the president's position on guns and bullets to shrewd gun sellers to instill fear in people so that sales go up. Just take a look at the sale of guns and ammo in this country before and after Obama took office and what we see is a play on fear and not a change in policy. NPR interviewed several gun sellers who swear that's what's going to happen yet showed no direct evidence to support it.

Don't you know the era of using fear to manipulate Americans is over? The Republiclan Party will have to do more than resort to old 2nd Amendment scare tactics to sabotage Obama's high public approval.

I think we should ban guns completely and allow hunters to only use bow and arrow. Hey the natives did it, why shouldn't Americans?? It's time to kill the 2nd Amendment.

Jon, the 2nd Amendment is about more than hunting. I agree with the rest of your post, but I'm not ready to hang out the 2nd Amendment.

Jon, fear in politics works for every side. And is pushed by every side. Get real and learn politics. I'm not even going to mention all the demogogery that went on in the last eight years. The thing is you probbly believe the left's fear pushes and think the right only pushes fears.

The 2nd ammendment is there for a reason and will never go away, not in my life time and over my dead cold hands that will have guns aimed at whoever tries to take them from me.

AHA! Virgil, you are my new hero. I was afraid Kevin and I were the only two people left alive who felt the same.
Jon- thank you for your input. I humbly disagree with your standpoint on the 2nd Amendment.

I really have to wonder abut people who believe that having a gun will protect them from crime. I have never owned a gun, and have never had to protect myself from a criminal act.

I don't mind if some people want to own a gun and use it for hobby, but no one in this country needs a gun, unless it's for their job.

I think you are more likely to be attacked by someone without a gun than with one. And in that case defending yourself with a weapon against an unarmed attacker is immoral. Just give them a good kick in the you know whats instead.

I personally know two different people that have used a pistol to defend themselves. (and this is out of the 30 or so people that I know.) One was in denver when some guy came up to his truck with a knife and told him to get out. He pulled a pistol from under the seat and said "I think I'll stay here" The other was in bosten or something around there and this guy tried to mug them after they left a bar late at night. All he had to do was reach behind his back and grab his pistol and the guy ran off.
There is a magizine (American Hunter) that features 3-4 stories each month that involve armed citizens protecting themselves. Men in their house that they fired on, attempted muggings. There was one story where a guy and his family were walking to their car after shopping at the super market and four men (three with knives, one with a gun) demanded his wallet. He said "I only have my check book so why dont you just walk away and nobody gets in trouble." One of the men yelled "grab the kid!" so the guy pulled out his pistol and fired three shots, killing one, wounding two of the others. I feel thats justice served the old fasioned way. So no, its not too likely that Im gonna get robbed where I live. But if someday someone asks me for my wallet on the street, and I have a pistol with me, I'm gonna use it. But that doesnt mean that Im gonna walk around terrorizing people with a rifle. If I get in a fight, Im not gonna pull it out and shoot someone. Ill be dignified and use my fists. No one will even know I have it.
As far as this argument goes, I think its as pointless as God arguments.