Halls of the Dark Muse

well, what you say makes sense i think. it is true that immigrants should try to adjust to the language and every-day routine of the country they migrate to(but not necessarily adopt the culture of that country, for we sahould never forget who we are-they can just pick up the main elements of that culture), if they want to succeed; it is for purely practical reasons.
what i don't get is, what did you say exactly that may make you look like a racist? did you explain your view on the matter, or did you just mentioned something like ''well, i disagree with what he says, it is their fault if they do not move on, not my problem...'' and stuff like this? because if you said that in such a way, well i am afraid they might consider you as a racist. but if you tried to explain what you think with a persuading manner i believe your classmates will get your point.
if you sense that some may have taken you wrong, don't give up and try to let them know what you meant as soon as possible, because if you don't, then you will certainly be in trouble.
good luck!

Give you credit for taking a stand knowing it won't be a popular one or socially correct. Personally I'm not qualified to say anything aboiut the Mexicans because I only know the Long Suffering Spouse's friend Patti and I'm not going to condemn an entire culture just because she can't handle a cell phone and life in general. At least you're putting some thought to it instead the casual dismissal of contempt usually practiced by the infamous "They say" types that everyone knows but don't want to be asociated with.

The reason I say I will be accused as being a racisit becasue it is a generally unpopular view to take, particuarly where I live, to suggest that Mexican-Americans should learn english, and they are responsebale for trying to assimiliate at least to some degree in American Culture.

It is also an unpopular view to say illegal immigrants should not have the same rights as US Citizens.

yep yep. I know how you feel but good for you for sticking to your point.

I actually, really think that your view is smart. It is though that one third of the US population is either latin american or spanish speaking. With such a large population to the south, it is completly understandable why hispanics hold to values, but another idea that may give more perspective is such things as the Chicano movement and the basic idea in hispanic cultures of differentiation between.
It bugs me when people think that someone is ignorant hands down without hearing them out.

Now you know Dark Muse what it feels like to be a Conservative. It's not enough that Liberals disagree with you, but they have to attribute the worst motives to your opinions. It could be the most common sense thing such as what you are saying. It's not enough that you make an observation that it takes time to assimilate, go one to college, and get high paying jobs. But they have label you a racist for not seeing it their way. And this goes for every issue. If you believe there is a real reason for a military action, they call you a war monger; if you believe that tax cuts make economic sense, they say you want to line the pockets of the wealthy; if you believe in drilling for oil, they say you want to rape the earth. They can't just disagree, they have to dehumanize your morals.

Well I understand what you mean DM, I don't think you're racist, I don't think it's racist to expect people who are moving outside their own culture to gain the benefit of another to do what they can to assimilate into that culture. I remember watching some programme on UK television once where it was being argued by a certain element of the population that Christmas should be banned as it's disrespectful to other religions which I thought, to coin a favourite phrase of Virgil's, was ridiculous! Assimilation doesn't mean having to give up your own culture, but you should expect to make sufficient adjustments in order to fit in. And it seems to me that, as is often the case, many, many people do but it's the vocal ones that don't, who cry 'ism' who bring all the good hard work that the others have done into disrepute. But I have to disagree with what Virgil says about Liberals (of course ) it's not just Liberals that do that Virgil, everyone does it regardless of political persuasion. It's a poor tactic, but sadly it seems to work.

Fifth, if you look carefully at the dialogue between Liberals and Conservatives, you will see that in essence the conservatives call the liberals naive or simple minded (for instance, and I'm using this as an example of the dialogue, it is naive to think that redistribution of income makes economic sense), but the Liberals question the moral make up of conservatives (for instance, we want corporations to prosper while people go hungry). It's in the underling pinnings of the claims. Dark Muse was called a racist (a moral failing) for observing some rather obvious facts about immigrants.

Well there isn't much dialogue between Liberals and Conservatives in my country, unless it's about power sharing. Isn't the concept of redistribution of wealth socialist? Why do you always forget the socialists? Anyway, I was just pointing out it was a sweeping statement, and it's something that all political views are guilty of. For example, the idea that we're all going to be stabbed unless knives are banned (Conservative view: tough on crime and the causes of crime ) which is equally naive. And Dark Muse wasn't accused of racism, if I read her post right, but rather that she expected to be accused of racism. I wonder if she was, or she wasn't? I'd be interested to know how it all turned out. And it might be fairer to say she observed some obvious facts about some immigrants; using your statement would, of course, accuse all immigrants of being immoral (lazy, self-centred, etc) when there are doubtless many who add value to US and seek to integrate themselves into US society. Maybe it's a naive fault of Liberalism not to tar everyone with the same brush

I do agree that at least where I live conservitives have not ezactly taken the moral highground either. They are just as guilty of being insulting to those who disagree with them. I have heard more then one conservitive view that liberals are "anti-American" and look at Obama, he has been accused of being a Terrorist, and a Communisit.

And yes you are right Fith, it has not yet happend, I was just speculating on what I think will happen based on how the other discussions have gone, and my impression of the leanings of the other students. So far no one else has posted in this weeks discussion.

First of all, no one of note has accused O of being a terrorist. Perhaps soft on terroriism but who actually says he's going to blow up something. Come on. Second to label someone a communist or a socialist is not to question their moral being but to characterize their policy. I agree it's hyperbole, and politics always ends up in hyperbole. But when you're accused of racism, keeping people poor or allowing them to starve, or fighting wars because of conquest, then you are questioning the moral fiber of someone.

Look I don't think you quite understand me. I'm not saying any one is right or wrong on any given issue. I'm pointing out the nature of the debate. Perhaps someone's moral fiber does need to be questioned sometimes. But the underpinnings of most (ok perhaps not all) Liberals attacks on Conservatives is a questioning of their moral fiber; the nature of most Conservative attacks on Liberals is a questioning of their common sense. Hey remember when I was attacked by someone here who shall be nameless on my support for the Chinese and their Olympics? My morality was questioned. Take it from someone whose been in these debates for many years, perhaps longer than some people here have been alive. Well, actually you don't have to believe me. Just keep it in mind and see for yourself. The next time you hear people arguing listen for the underpinnings.

To most republicans Comminist is still a dirty word, and when they accuse Obama of being a Solicalist of a Communist they do so with the intent of making a statement against who he is as a person, not to just discuss his political practicies. They use it as a scare tactic.

Yes it is a scare tactic. Much of politics is a scare tactic. But it is not an attack on his morality.