Masculinity

[Ickmeister]

Please tell me all you guys know about masculinity in the Bible. I'm not much of a Bible buff.

[Tigerlily]

I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. Perhaps you could expand on it a little?

[Ickmeister]

Like what is the job of a man, and what makes a man a man and not just a boy (I'm not talking about age).

[Tigerlily]

I've asked my mother for help on this one as she is better versed in the Bible, and I'm sure that others in this group will also have things to offer, but here's what I've got:
-How men should behave in relation to women, and conversely how women should treat their men is very nicely portrayed in the Song of Solomen (sp?).
-Proverbs is a good place to look for specifics about what to and not to do when it comes to social and inter-personal behavior.
-The Ten Commandments is always a good one for laying the foundation for a good walk with Christ.
-The story of Abraham (I'm not sure where in the Bible it is) being willing to sacrifice his own son for the love of God, is a good example of obediance to God's will.
-Job is a great place to learn long-suffering and obediance to God's will as well, as it teaches the value of patience and how to behave in the midst of trials and tribulations.
I hope that this helps you, although there are a lot of other places in the Bible, especially the NT, where it specifically states what a man's role is, but the verses escape me. I hope that some of the others out there who read this will be able to help you with that. God bless you!

[Shea]

Here are some more verses about specific roles of men:

As husbands:
1 Corinthians 7:3
1 Corinthians 11:3
Ephesians 5:22-33
Colossians 3:18
1 Timothy 5:8
1 Peter 3:7

As parents:
Matthew 10:37
Luke 11:11
2 Corinthians 12:14
1 Timothy 3:4-5, 12
1 Timothy 5:8
Titus 1:6
Hebrews 12:7

These last two also partain to the leaders in the church.

I also wanted to point out this passage

Ephesians 5:22-33
Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church-- 30for we are members of his body. 31"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32This is a profound mystery--but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

Because of the Women's Liberation movement, this passage sort of falls by the wayside. As a wife, I am submissive to my husband, but that doesn't mean that he is a tyrant over me. He is the head of the house and makes the final decisions, but with those decisions he makes sure that it's the best for both of us not just him.

I tried to share this passage with a very good friend of mine, but instead of listening, she went on a rant because she had just come out of an abusive relationship. She felt that my church was 'evil' because we don't allow women to take an active role in worship because of this scripture:

1 Corinthians 14:34-35
As in all the congregations of the saints, women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.

This is all probably more than you wanted to know, but I felt like sharing it because that friend and I have since grown apart and I miss her. :(

[Ickmeister]

Thanks, I'm reading a book called Wild at Heart. It's about recovering the masculine heart, we had to read it for youth group. In the Ladies youth group they were reading a book called, Do You Think I'm Beautiful.
Now my book has helped me a lot, so I think these two books would be a good thing for everybody to read, If not study.

[Ickmeister]

Ephesians 5:22-33
Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave himself up for her 26to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to himself as a radiant church, without stain or wrinkle or any other blemish, but holy and blameless. 28In this same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it, just as Christ does the church-- 30for we are members of his body. 31"For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh." 32This is a profound mystery--but I am talking about Christ and the church. 33However, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

This passage does not work without understanding that God has authority over the husband also. They become power hungry and slave drivers, then show their wives this teaching and try to make them believe that they are the ultamite authority. Shea's husband sounds like he has a good understanding of this.[/quote]

[Ickmeister]

ok, this died. so I'm trying to recesitate it

[Shea]

Originally posted by Ickmeister
ok, this died. so I'm trying to recesitate it

Are you talking about this topic?

The preacher at my church just finished a fantastic series of sermons on the role of the Christian woman. (which I enjoyed immensely considering two of my literature teachers decided to assign feminist works to read recently:mad: ) Next Sunday, he'll start his series on the role of the Christian man. I'll take notes and relay them for you if you'd like.

[Dyrwen]

Always appears to be too much anti-women's rights in "being a man" nowadays. Biblically speaking, "being a man" seems a bit demeaning to most women.

If that's what being a man is about, I'll have no part in it.

[Ickmeister]

no Drywen, The genders were made for two -equally important- different "jobs" (for lack of a better word). Also gender is a spiritual thing, not just assigned by your genitals. Men were made to be (at least somewhat) dominant, and women were made to be supportive of their man. At least that is my understading of the Bible, you'd have to go to Shea for the scipture and stuff.Women have the right to go out and have a secret vote and all that stuff. I have a big headache so I can't think of much more to say. But I will if I must. And if I must, I must.

[Ickmeister]

Please send that stuff Shea, tyty! :D

[Shea]

Actually I was sort of talking about this in the general lit section in the thread "I did not like Edna!" if you want to check that out too. Ickmeister is absolutely right. But I'm only here for a short while today, so I'll post the other stuff later.

[mrbillbenson]

For Shea:

Prohibition about women taking part was likely to do with women who were not professing godliness, who didn't know what was going on and you can picture them pulling on their husbands' sleeves, saying, "What's that for verse about? Why's he saying that women should dress modestly, is he saying I am not godly??" , "How come you're getting some of that bread and not me and Junior here?"

I believe Paul (the same one who wrote what you quoted about women learning at home) writes to others about Phoebe, and Priscilla, two women who were preaching. Certainly they were not keeping silence in the church?

Godly women have a lot to offer in the congregation. The thought of "daughters of God" keeping silence just does not seem to make any sense. In heaven, both will be as the angels, being neither male nor female.

[Shea]

I'll answer you later, right now I have to get ready for church.

[Shea]

Originally posted by mrbillbenson
[B]For Shea:

Prohibition about women taking part was likely to do with women who were not professing godliness,

"likely"? First things first. When discussing the Bible (especially with me) please at least attempt to back up your opinions with scripture. We all learn better that way.;)

Second, the part about women keeping silent, had to do with the worship service. Of course women are allowed to sing and partake of the Lord's supper, but they are not allowed leadership positions.

Third, as far as preaching goes, what do you think I'm doing right now? I'm sharing scripture and trying to influence others to study God's word. Doing so is commended for anyone, which is what Pricilla did along with her husband Aquila for Apollos in the account you mentioned from Acts 18. (Many times as I write my posts I consult my husband.) But neither one of the women you mentioned (nor any other Biblical woman) speaks in a worship service.

But if I were to teach a class or speak out in church that is wrong.
1 Timothy 2:11-12
11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.

There are many roles for a christian woman, especially as comforters, Mothers who teach their children and other women.
Titus 2:3-5
Likewise, teach the older women to be reverent in the way they live, not to be slanderers or addicted to much wine, but to teach what is good. 4Then they can train the younger women to love their husbands and children, 5to be self-controlled and pure, to be busy at home, to be kind, and to be subject to their husbands, so that no one will malign the word of God.


Ickmiester, I made a mistake.:eek: Sorry, our preacher begins his sermons on the role of christian men next Sunday. Today he spoke on the Christian women's dress and appearance, absolutely wonderful material! He had touched on it during his other sermons, but really went in depth today!

[mrbillbenson]

I do appreciate your responses, which must take some time to compose - and the pains you take to back up your thoughts with biblical scripture. Which is what this forum is about.

I will try to keep what the Spirit tells me, above and beyone what is recorded in scripture, out of the thread. That said, I disagree that speaking in a fellowship meeting is a "leadership" role.

[Shea]

Originally posted by mrbillbenson

I will try to keep what the Spirit tells me, above and beyone what is recorded in scripture, out of the thread. That said, I disagree that speaking in a fellowship meeting is a "leadership" role.

Umm... The only Spirit that should be talking to you is that of the scriptures themselves, the Bible warns against anything else.

2 Thessalonians 2:11-12
11For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness.

1 Corinthians 4:6
Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not take pride in one man over against another.

Also, your second statement contradicted your first here, unless you can back it up with scripture that dosen't conflict with any other passage.

But thank you for appreciating my responses.:D

[mrbillbenson]

"4:6 And these things, brethren, I have in a figure transferred to myself and to Apollos for your sakes; that ye might learn in us not to think of men above that which is written, that no one of you be puffed up for one against another."

Says not to think of MEN beyond that which is written.

In my opinion, he is saying don't make more of them than they are - instruments and vessels. Paul in several places said he was giving his opinions.

And I know that the scriptures disagree with themselves in many places, and only the Spirit can iron it all out.

Something in there about living by the sword and dying by the sword - keep honest as you read ALL the scriptures, you will see that there are some things you leave in, some you leave out. If not, you'll go mad and turn in to a hippocrite. I am sure.

[Shea]

You ignored the phrase "beyond that which is written." The only way that the scriptures can disagree with themselves is when the one studying them is trying to read their own thoughts and views into what's being said.

2 Peter 1:20-21
Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet's own interpretation. 21For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

[mrbillbenson]

No, men were trying to make more of Paul and Apollos (as individuals) than they should have.

As for role of congregation members in general,

I Cor:"14:24 But if all prophesy, and there come in one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced of all, he is judged of all: 14:25 And thus are the secrets of his heart made manifest; and so falling down on his face he will worship God, and report that God is in you of a truth"

Can't all be leaders, but we can all be "all." Unless you don't want to be a part of all: :D

[Shea]

I agree that you shouldn't make more of individuals, but you still are forgetting "beyond that which is written". In any time, whether 55 AD or 2003 AD, nobody is above the scriptures.

I don't understand why you use 1Corinthians 14:24-25. I think your pulling it out of context to try and support your point, but it dosen't really support it.:confused: