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Unregistered
04-15-2003, 01:00 AM
Do you understand what it means to have an illegal war? Do you understand that the very first treaty signed, was signed by Saddam Hussein in order to get a cease fire after he invaded another country. The day he stopped abiding by that orignal UN treaty, war was always a legal option. That day by the way, came about 15 days after the 1991 Gulf war and the signing of the treaty. You can think the war is uneccessary for any number of reasons, but to lie about it's leaglity because you don't like it makes you intellecutally dishonest.

Josh
07-27-2003, 01:00 AM
The difference that I think you are missing in your comparison between 1984 and the war in the middle east is that in 1984 there was no objective good other than we assume what was found in Winston. In our present case there is a clear definition of good and evil, and regaurdless of the how the government deals with it (well or poorly) there is still a right and a wrong.

Heynow
07-27-2003, 01:00 AM
It's almost amusing that a book such as 1984, which is widely seen as a condmnation of ultra-left wing, totalitarian policies (and yes, I realize that Orwell was a socialist, but a pessimistic one at best) is used to be critical of a political movement (conservatism) that has tried, although not very successfully, to return power to the states and localities. It is the confiscatory collection of the people's earnings through the various tax schemes that enables the governmental bureaucracy to obtain increasing control over its citizens lives. Those policies are of course favored by the liberal/left in the US.

Unregistered
05-16-2004, 01:00 AM
i agree

Unregistered
05-16-2004, 01:00 AM
Josh's notion of there being 'a clear definition of good and evil' in the war against the middle east exemplifies him as a victim of propaganda.

Lianne
06-03-2004, 01:00 AM
The best comment I've seen on here which points out how the world today, really is like George Orwell's 1984. I think people get really sidetracked about security cameras and such like and totally miss the really scary politics. <br><br>The lack of laws which really do protect people's human rights today as opposed to state aggression which is intended to give the impression of protecting the public from 'enemies' is a real parallel. No one knows who at camp delta is guilty or innocent of anything because they have no legal status and no right, it seems after 2 years, of a trial. Yet we are 'protected' from terrorism by dropping bombs on foreign women and children.<br><br>Orwell was showing how the ideals of socialism could be corrupted, and power still remain in the hands of a few, even in what was called a socialist state. Today the same could be said of freedom instead. The ideals of freedom have been corrupted by our politicians. They talk about freedom constantly but freedom from poverty, the freedom of equal opportunities and basic human rights appear to be disappearing fast.

Charles
02-05-2005, 08:49 PM
Do you really know what you are talking about, do really think that we americans just sit around and just hold hate toward another governmental power. " IF YOU ARE PATIENT IN ONE MOMENT OF ANGER YOU WILL ESCAPE A HUNDRED OF DAYS OF SORROW". I understand you feel that we have an enemy and I agree in one way or another every one is an enemy from another country, yet " IT IS CERTAIN IN ANY CASE THAT IGNORANCE ALLIED WITH POWER IS THE MOST FEROCIOUS ENEMY JUISTICE CAN HAVE WE MAY ALL HAVE COME ON DIFFERENT SHIPS BUT WE ARE IN THE SAME BOAT NOW,THERE IS NO VALUE IN LIFE EXCEPT WHAT YOU CHOOSE TO PLACE UPON IT AND NO HAPPINES IN ANY PLACE EXCEPT WHAT YOU BRING IT TO YOURSELF". So befor you comment know what the hell you talkin about first. DONT BOTHER TO RESPOND!!! I KNOW MY ****!!!!

Charles
02-05-2005, 08:50 PM
Do you really know what you are talking about, do really think that we americans just sit around and just hold hate toward another governmental power. " IF YOU ARE PATIENT IN ONE MOMENT OF ANGER YOU WILL ESCAPE A HUNDRED OF DAYS OF SORROW". I understand you feel that we have an enemy and I agree in one way or another every one is an enemy from another country, yet " IT IS CERTAIN IN ANY CASE THAT IGNORANCE ALLIED WITH POWER IS THE MOST FEROCIOUS ENEMY JUISTICE CAN HAVE WE MAY ALL HAVE COME ON DIFFERENT SHIPS BUT WE ARE IN THE SAME BOAT NOW,THERE IS NO VALUE IN LIFE EXCEPT WHAT YOU CHOOSE TO PLACE UPON IT AND NO HAPPINES IN ANY PLACE EXCEPT WHAT YOU BRING IT TO YOURSELF". So befor you comment know what the heck you talkin about first. DONT BOTHER TO RESPOND!!! I KNOW MY STUFF!!!!

Unregistered
03-17-2005, 06:55 PM
To all of those who attempt to relate '1984' with the current state of the US, I must say that you are truely mislead. I see that many write about how our 'Hate Room' is the images of Saddam and Osama, and that we are told to hate these people. My question to you is: What makes you think for one second that the world, and Iraq, was a better place with Saddam? Did you not see the torture chambers? Did you not see the rape chambers? Did you not see the mass graves of innocent Iraqi men, women, and children? Did you not see the countless images of Saddam on every street corner? Did you not see the REAL fear in THEIR eyes? No, Iraq, under the rule of Saddam, is a much closer representation of Orwell's '1984', not the US. Now I am not saying that the US is perfect and there are no flaws. I do understand that there are many men and women in Washington DC who would love to lay their hands on more power, but when one compares our form of government to the oppressive, fundamenalist governments of the Middle East, one can safely make the conclusion that we are fighting Big Brother now.

Unregistered
03-21-2005, 02:50 PM
I totally agree with Dan's comment on the posssibility of seeing our world through the more explicit 1984. The Middle East crisis, as well as the effects of globalization (another example) are undoubteldy some strong examples of the big brother of today. Although I would say that we live in a world that is more dangerous, merely due to the fact that what we are experiencing is a more frightening form of totalitatrianism; that of the subtle brainwashing that we get from the media and its globalization.

Unregistered
04-26-2005, 10:54 AM
tis a pity that like the hate room, stated above, the people are almost force fed into hating the muslims. as of now, there is not much difference between 1984 and 2003, except we are promised some freedom.

Chris
04-27-2005, 10:35 AM
Funny thing about all the posts I have read here is that they, much like the book can be deconstructed and reconstructed to back up any view point related to the topic. Funny how someone who was afraid to leave their name felt that Josh was a victim because his take on the situation did not agree with theirs. Beware of reverse intro speak and 'good facts'. Words still have meaning and thus must be considered, whatever side you may be on in the current climate you can not assume that the other guy is a 'victim' of propaganda. I find the news these days to be stricty propaganda but the real question is for which side?

Dan
05-24-2005, 06:07 PM
Many below have commented on this classic's relevance today, comparing the society Orwell invented in the 1940s with contemporary society. Clearly mass control is an issue today, with globalisation fast gathering momentum. I would note now how we are by no means living in Orwell's nightmarish society, but nevertheless fall victim to mass politics on a daily basis mainly through media manipulation, which we have seen a great deal of since 9/11. Note for example how we are being led into yet another unnecessary war in the Middle East (remembering the artificially puppeteered wars in '1984'), breaking numerous international laws and treaties (thus making the coming war illegal - remember the absence of any real laws aimed at protecting the public in '1984'), and against the polled dissent of 70% of the American public (thus making the coming war undemocratic to boot). In other words, our personal power against these mass institutions and operations is increasingly squashed by imperialistic assertion of US/globalised power in the world, in some ways like Winston Smith's little rebellion is squashed. <br><br>But dissent is squashed in a sophisticated manner, exactly as in 1984 when O'Brien turns out to be a covert operative posing as a rebel. To begin with, we think we have freedom of speech and objectivity in the press and in the street. In the street we certainly do have the former, but it is clear that the media is far from objective and much is filtered and manipulated (observe how we have given up so many hard-won rights since 9/11, in ex-legislation which was meant to protect us; as well as many billions of dollars towards useless and harmful military operations for years to come, on account of national outrage as channelled and focused in the media onto the 'war against terrorism'). Thus our rights and freedoms are being eroded - but not through any overt Big Brother mass control - rather, through the wielding of big words in the media by the president and others, to inspire in us the feelings which will lead us to voluntarily agree to the plans they had for us and our money all along. In this way it looks like democracy and nobody complains, but how similar is it to Big Brother's propaganda really? It is just a little subtler.<br><br>Another similarity is the Hate Room, where the general populace is given an object for all its pent-up aggression and frustration. Are Bin Laden, Saddam Hussein, and whoever else we are served up on a plate to hate, just our national Hate Room? How much control do we actually have over our own emotions and where they are directed? To put it another way, how much dignity have we lost? A dignified populace at home with its own feelings and in control of its own thoughts makes a society like '1984', or 2003, impossible from the outset.<br>