A Disturbing Question

[CarolC]

Did Tess and Angel consummate their marriage during their hideout at the mansion?

It appears the BBC series (and even the ending of the 1979 movie version) I watch often depict that (better censor them for PBS, 2008 version) Tess and Angel made love. I remember thinking WHAT? In no way would an author have that in an his book. No wonder that book was controversial for its time.

I have only read tibits of the book and have a fair understanding of the entire plot about the dangers of double standards and society.

Ummmm, when I checked the text of the mansion scene. It did appears ambiguous to me.

This can be found on Ch. 58: "elegance of Tess's gown hanging across a chair, her silk stockings beside it, the pretty parasol, and the other habits in which she had arrived because she had none else, that her first indignation at the effrontery of tramps and vagabonds gave way to a momentary sentimentality over this genteel elopement, as it seemed."

So, if her dress was on a chair, it might have implied Tess was not wearing anything.

[Tournesol]

Of course they consumated their marriage! It was about time too.

I hope you know that ALec had 'taken advantage' of her in the woods, earlier in the novel...hence her pregnancy out of wedlock.

[kiki1982]

What do you think a man and woman do for five solid days without any books, TV, radio, newspapers, music and whatever else? :D

Besides, they both got dressed in the end, so they were both uhm... in bed, in a very close embrace as it seems from the novel. What can they have been doing then? I daresay that nowadays things could be done without, but in the 19th century it was together in bed or not and together in bed meant more than merely in bed, or at least to normal people. It required you to be married, I wonder why...

As to the 'not wearing anything', she would also have worn, besides stockings, a corset and under that a chemise, possibly over that a little chemise too in order not to damage her gown and breeches (or whatever they called them for women) for underwear purposes, so maybe she wasn't totally in Eve's costume, but almost anyway.

Besides, even nowadays, what do you think when you see Mr Bond waking up with his Bond-girl next to him? Surely not that they had a nice talk until they were so tired they fell asleep?

[kelby_lake]

I fail to understand how it's a disturbing question. Of course they consummated their marriage! The poor girl's had enough misery as it is.

[CarolC]

Aha, knew it was a euphemism! As a dumb newbie, I wasn't too sure if those sort of questions are usual on literature boards. Also, you don't find that disturbing that I wanted to confirm that question?

*Sigh* Poor Tess, she gets her moment of true loving bliss after staying with that horrible rapist who caused her tragic fate.

Well, of course! They were playing a board game together and feel asleep in each other arms. :biggrin5:

[kiki1982]

You are allowed to ask anything over here, apart from us doing your homework ;).

The normal kind of questions tend to be a little more... how shall I put it, a little less basic, maybe. But, hey, that's what this forum is for: confirming certain doubts you have. That happens sometimes.

Although, is it possible that you expressed yourself wrongly? You probably meant (I gather from your post above) that the question was disturbing you, so was bugging you. You couldn't get rid of it in your mind and wanted to see if anyone else felt the same. A disturbing question in itself is something that is unsettling, that kind of upsets you... Hence KelbyLake's reply.

I like pedantry :D

[Tournesol]

Carol called Alec the 'rapist' - I must tell you that that's a debate all by itself.

Was Alec a rapist, or merely a seducer? He definitely took advantage of Tess while she was tired; and all through it he kept reminding of of all he had done to help her family. So, while it was happening, she'd felt obliged to him in a way.

Now Angel Clare on the other hand - we women love him for the way he romances her at the dairy farm, lifting her over the flood, etc.
But what we turn a blind eye to is the fact that he's a hypocrite. He had spent 18 hours with a woman out of wedlock, but he chastises Tess for her baby, which was no fault of hers. And then, the man has the gall to leave her on their honeymoon, and ship himself off to South America!

During this period of his abdonment, and with Tess' in-laws being unsupportive, ALec once more steps in and offers to lend a helping hand to Tess and her family. Tess sees all too clearly now the harsh realiaties of life, and she goes with Alec.

But a woman's heart is a woman's heart, and at the end of the day, Angel was her love, her husband. She had him for the cost of her life. *sigh* Would that that darn Hardy didn't write such ill-fated novels!

So, now Carol, ask yourself if Alec was a true rapist. Did he 'rape' her again in the novel when he tried to woo her? And out of Alec and Angel, which one of them proved the bigger man in providing for Tess and her family?

[kiki1982]

I agree with that wholeheartedly! At least Alec wasn't two-faced. He was a bad man and he knew it. It's just a shame that Tess didn't.

I have started to lean towards the seduction instead of the so-called rape of Tess actually. It's very likely that Alec seduced, like he did with a few others and then abandoned them, although he does seem to feel more for Tess as he doesn't grow tired for her. He is a creep though, so no regrets about his death really. If he had had a good cell in his body, he would have asked to marry him and upon a 'no' (undoubtedly), would have stayed out of her way, but would have helped her from a distance. A little like Darcy. He would not have expected anything in return for his help. That wasn't Alec.

Angel though is a two-faced goody. A little like the priest. One may, in theory baptise with any water, but when it really matters they don't want to bury Tess's son. Angel has had intercourse with a woman and Tess should accept it, that's fair enough, although virtue was also applicable to men, yet then he abandons her, even ignores his duty of maintaining her as he was still her husband, because of the same fact! She should have followed her mother's advice. He wouldn't have known...

In his defence, though, wasn't he taken ill with fever in Brazil? So, essentially he maybe did care, but couldn't do anything until he returned. Still, he could have decided not to leave...

[kelby_lake]

Both Alec and Angel are flawed. They both try to shape Tess into their ideal woman, and then inevitably find that she falls short. Alec wants a woman who's up for a bit of fun; Angel wants a pure and saintly wife. Of the two, if we discount the rape/seduction, Alec's idea of a woman is preferable to that of Angel's. Alec will defend Tess, despite the fact that she was now "damaged goods", whereas Angel did not defend her.

The rape was a rape, I think. I imagine that Tess was a little sleepy and when Alec came to her, she didn't realise what he was going to do. We don't know how informed she is on the facts of life. It's certainly clear that she didn't enjoy it, but then she is a martyr so she might have just gritted her teeth.