Woody Allen’s Pessimism?

[LitNetIsGreat]

What do we think of Woody Allen’s somewhat pessimist attitude towards life; that we distract ourselves with trivial problems to keep us from the bigger worries? Well, he’s speaking from a personal perspective of why he works at the great speed he does – to distract himself from the bleakness of life – but it could certainly be applied generally.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKLFcpATPjI&feature=channel_video_title

Some other quotes of his on the same subject:


Most of life is tragic. You're born, you don't know why. You're here, you don't know why. You go, you die. Your family dies. Your friends die. People suffer. People live in constant terror. The world is full of poverty and corruption and war and Nazis and tsunamis. The net result, the final count is, you lose - you don't beat the house.


You want some kind of relief from the agony and terror of human existence. Human existence is a brutal experience to me...it's a brutal, meaningless experience-an agonizing, meaningless experience with some oases, delight, some charm and peace, but these are just small oases. Overall, it is a brutal, brutal, terrible experience, and so it's what can you do to alleviate the agony of the human condition, the human predicament? That is what interests me the most. I continue to make the films because the problem obsesses me all the time and it's consistently on my mind and I'm consistently trying to alleviate the problem, and I think by making films as frequently as I do I get a chance to vent the problems. There is some relief. I have said this before in a facetious way, but it is not so facetious: I am a whiner. I do get a certain amount of solace from whining.

Do you think he has a point or is he just a mad neurotic? Or is there not some sort of comfort in understanding that life is pretty crap most of the time?

Etc, etc… All of that thought that Shakespeare, Beethoven etc, come to nothing in the end is a bit of a bleak thing isn't it or does it make you enjoy them all the more for their shortness? I don't know, I'd love to discuss it further right now but I have work tomorrow and I have to make sandwiches. (No points for spotting the intentional irony there...:santasmil)

Hmm, be interesting to hear what other people think on the matter.

[Vonny]

I can't give a deep reply, but I think it's great how he dishes life up exactly as it is and then makes it all hilarious. If you can laugh at it, then you can cope with it.

[L€lä RËmØ MÅðçÂ]

If you think hard enough, you will ask yourself too many "what if" questions. Those go out of hand, and you can't keep from thinking "What's the good in life?" Usually, the more you interact and socialize with people, the more they wash away.

[The Atheist]

Do you think he has a point or is he just a mad neurotic? Or is there not some sort of comfort in understanding that life is pretty crap most of the time?

It becomes a bit ironic when it's spouted by a rich person living in luxury in New York whose greatest moral dilemma was whether or not to have sex with his step-daughter.

Lightweight.

In other words, typical Woody.

[TacoButt]

After watching a marathon of Werner Herzog films, I'd say Woody Allen is like Christmas with the Osmonds in the pessimism dept.

[Emil Miller]

Do you think he has a point or is he just a mad neurotic? Or is there not some sort of comfort in understanding that life is pretty crap most of the time?

It's important to remember that Woody Allen is a 'professional' whinger. Ever since he discovered that many Americans like talking about themselves rather than watching what people like him are selling, he has posed as a purveyor of psychological imbalance to those who can't spell the phrase but are taken with the novelty of it. As long as we have to clean, feed, house and clothe ourselves, of course life is pretty crappy most of the time. If by comfort you mean resignation then that just about sums it up.

[joelavine]

I find Allen's wistful and, especially, his "he got away with it" endings refreshing in an age when mainstream movies, especially comedies, insist on formulaic happy resolutions and when crime dramas (the Coen Brothers' No Country For Old Men another important exception) routinely insist on facile come-uppances. Crimes and Misdemeanors is my favorite Woody Allen film (with Hannah and her Sisters, a very different kind of movie, coming in second). But Match Point, simlar in treatment, is also satisfying for these reasons.

[LitNetIsGreat]

I find Allen's wistful and, especially, his "he got away with it" endings refreshing in an age when mainstream movies, especially comedies, insist on formulaic happy resolutions and when crime dramas (the Coen Brothers' No Country For Old Men another important exception) routinely insist on facile come-uppances. Crimes and Misdemeanors is my favorite Woody Allen film (with Hannah and her Sisters, a very different kind of movie, coming in second). But Match Point, simlar in treatment, is also satisfying for these reasons.

Oh yes, I enjoyed Match Point and Hannah and Her Sisters as well, not too hung up on Crimes and Misdemeanors as I remember, but it might be worth another viewing. Annie Hall and Manhattan are particular favourites of mine, particularly Manhattan which I have watched about 4 or 5 times in the last couple of months.


It's important to remember that Woody Allen is a 'professional' whinger. Ever since he discovered that many Americans like talking about themselves rather than watching what people like him are selling, he has posed as a purveyor of psychological imbalance to those who can't spell the phrase but are taken with the novelty of it. As long as we have to clean, feed, house and clothe ourselves, of course life is pretty crappy most of the time. If by comfort you mean resignation then that just about sums it up.

No, no. As ever I think that you are too hard on old Woody. He's certainly whinger, or a neurotic - though his characters are more neurotic then he is in real life (though he's still pretty neurtoic and suffers from all sorts of phobias) in the end I think he is pretty genuine chap, as genuine as any of us are anyway.


It becomes a bit ironic when it's spouted by a rich person living in luxury in New York whose greatest moral dilemma was whether or not to have sex with his step-daughter.


Well certainly, being well off brings all sorts of benefits, but I hardly think a healthy bank balance means you shouldn't think about death. Sure, it is better to be rich than poor, and if you are poor you have other more pressing concerns, but we all die sometime, rich or poor.


Lightweight.

In other words, typical Woody.

Another fan? :santasmil It seems that there is pretty much two camps concerning Woody Allen - love or hate.

Personally, I think he is an above average writer/director/actor with some poor films and some very good films.

(Ha, I happen to be wearing my "What Would Woody Do?" T-shirt just now, what I nerd I am becoming!!!:conehead:)

[The Atheist]

Well certainly, being well off brings all sorts of benefits, but I hardly think a healthy bank balance means you shouldn't think about death. Sure, it is better to be rich than poor, and if you are poor you have other more pressing concerns, but we all die sometime, rich or poor.

I was referring to this attitude:

You want some kind of relief from the agony and terror of human existence.

That doesn't gel with someone able to do what he wants, when he wants, living a life of luxury.

Amusing that that person is crying "woe is me".

[LitNetIsGreat]

It's a fair point. It must be hell on earth attending all of those champagne parties and so forth, but he does seem to have genuine anxieties. According to IMDB bio he has at least the following:


His variety of neuroses include: arachnophobia (spiders), entomophobia (insects), heliophobia (sunshine), cynophobia (dogs), altophobia (heights), demophobia (crowds), carcinophobia (cancer), thanatophobia (death), misophobia (germs). He admits to being terrified of hotel bathrooms.

I think Mrs Neely has the fear of hotel bathrooms actually. Of the others fear and death and cancer is quite a prominent theme throughout a lot of his films, his early ones included. Certainly I have no reason to disbelieve him when he says that he throws himself into this work in part to avoid thinking on such things.

In terms of money he is well off, but it is worth noting that he has reportedly made more money from the sale of his house than all of his films combined (55-60+ flims). His films are hardly big sellers, so I don't buy Emil's theory, if that is what he is suggesting, that he uses his neurotic attitude to sell flims and make money. I'm suspicious of that angle personally. Comedy is a great mask of fear and anxiety. I have no reason to disbelieve his reasons for working anyway.

I tried to find the scene in Hannah and Her Sisters where he comes out of the doctors, jumping for joy having got the all clear, only to stop jumping after a few seconds having realised that he is due to die anyway in the course of things. I couldn't find that though, but this is good too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90Z98ZlvpPU

Oh, I've found it brillilant, watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76-UbwX1i4A&feature=related

[The Comedian]

You want some kind of relief from the agony and terror of human existence.

He could also be empathetic -- it's hard for some people to see/hear/read and otherwise bear witness to the suffering of people. Wealth doesn't (and shouldn't) dull our senses to human suffering or limit mental pain of the daily tragedies that we witness. For some, simply bearing witness is it's own sort of suffering.

The other day my daughter caught a worm; she named it "Alfred" and played with it all afternoon. Then she put it in a bucket and forgot to let it go. The next day, when she got home from school, the worm had dried out -- dead. She cried and cried. "Alfred! Alfred! I forgot to take him out of the bucket and now he's dead!" she cried and cried. She felt guilty because she imaged Alfred suffering there in the bucket. (She told me later). "Why did Alfred have to die?" she asked. "I don't know" I told her. . . .she's still not over it.

Here's the thing: my daughter's living conditions are great: a beautiful town, stable & caring parents, fiscally sound, emotionally stable. Yet for the rest of the day she suffered because she empathized. Maybe Woody just feels bad for everyone. . .

[Emil Miller]

(Ha, I happen to be wearing my "What Would Woody Do?" T-shirt just now, what I nerd I am becoming!!!:conehead:)

There are some things a man should never admit to.

[LitNetIsGreat]

He could also be empathetic -- it's hard for some people to see/hear/read and otherwise bear witness to the suffering of people. Wealth doesn't (and shouldn't) dull our senses to human suffering or limit mental pain of the daily tragedies that we witness. For some, simply bearing witness is it's own sort of suffering.

The other day my daughter caught a worm; she named it "Alfred" and played with it all afternoon. Then she put it in a bucket and forgot to let it go. The next day, when she got home from school, the worm had dried out -- dead. She cried and cried. "Alfred! Alfred! I forgot to take him out of the bucket and now he's dead!" she cried and cried. She felt guilty because she imaged Alfred suffering there in the bucket. (She told me later). "Why did Alfred have to die?" she asked. "I don't know" I told her. . . .she's still not over it.

Here's the thing: my daughter's living conditions are great: a beautiful town, stable & caring parents, fiscally sound, emotionally stable. Yet for the rest of the day she suffered because she empathized. Maybe Woody just feels bad for everyone. . .

Possibily yes. I also just think that he gets overwhelmed by the prospect of death and the enormity of things like he said in the video.


There are some things a man should never admit to.

True, true, I'm turning into a nerd, but at least I have regular underwear.

[The Atheist]

According to IMDB bio he has at least the following:

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s97/TheAtheist/funny.gif

Bloody hell! It'd be easier to find something he isn't phobic about.


He could also be empathetic -- it's hard for some people to see/hear/read and otherwise bear witness to the suffering of people.

Pretty sure it isn't that. I haven't ever seen any sign of it in his work, statements or behaviour. Just "me, me, me, woe is me...."

[JuniperWoolf]

Most of life is tragic. You're born, you don't know why. You're here, you don't know why. You go, you die. Your family dies. Your friends die. People suffer. People live in constant terror. The world is full of poverty and corruption and war and Nazis and tsunamis. The net result, the final count is, you lose - you don't beat the house.

Hmm, I used to obsess about this all the time. People were always telling me "but there are really good things too - you're just focusing on the bad" but then I asked them to name the good things and they faltered, eventually coming up with "parental love" and "things that taste good" and the like. The few positive things really don't balance out the horrors, if we're honest with ourselves.

After a while though, I just stopped struggling against it. I didn't distract my brain away from the bad things, I think I just adapted to reading about and seeing suffering and death. Humans are great adaptors (except for Woody Allen, apparently). I think that might be something that happens when you age, and come to learn all about the things that your parents protected you from in one big tidal wave of information. I guess you deal with it in your own way, be it by distraction, or embracing and helping to perpetuate horrors, writing comedy about it, simply letting your callous side take over, whatever. I basically just conciously decided to not be depressed and obsessive. Yep, the nazis burned people alive and made humans into soap and lampshades, somewhere at this moment a little girl is being raped by her own father, black people have been curb stomped for being born black. I recognize these as facts, and in the past I've torn myself to pieces in this recognition, but right now I don't feel anything about it. Some would call it becoming "jaded," and I guess it is, but what else can we do? We apply sensory adaptation to our emotions and to the realities of the world that are outside of our control, it's the only thing that we can do outside of jumping off a bridge.

Oh yeah, comedy also helps to an amazing degree. I'd say that making fun of terrible things has kept me from being a boring neurotic nut case, for sure.

[Emil Miller]

I have just finished reading a report by a French economist on the DSK affair and what it means for the European debt crisis, and would ya believe it? Woody Allen even gets a mention there. Is there no way to escape him?

[LitNetIsGreat]

I have just finished reading a report by a French economist on the DSK affair and what it means for the European debt crisis, and would ya believe it? Woody Allen even gets a mention there. Is there no way to escape him?

Really? No, no you can't escape Woody Allen, especially in my house.

[LitNetIsGreat]

More of the same.

Life:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yVPS8XBoBE&feature=related

Death:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdlzMTVwaAc&feature=related

I love the death point. :lol:

[Musicology]

Woody Allen disturbs me because his entire career seems to be a confession of having become famous at the cost of his own self. I do not find him funny. But I like him because (I think) his humour is not intended to be funny.