PDA

View Full Version : On the uses of a liberal education as lite entertainment for bored college students..



Sionn Harrow
01-29-2011, 07:37 PM
Okay, this is a long, intimidating post. Read it anyway-- this is definitely worth it.







September 1, 1997
Harper's Magazine

Mark Edmundson

A college student getting a liberal arts education ponders filling out a questionnaire that includes an opportunity for him to evaluate his instructor. At times it appears that the purpose of his education is just to entertain him.

Today is evaluation day in my Freud class, and everything has changed. The class meets twice a week, late in the afternoon, and the clientele, about fifty undergraduates, tends to drag in and slump, looking disconsolate and a little lost, waiting for a jump start. To get the discussion moving, they usually require a joke, an anecdote, an off-the-wall question -- When you were a kid, were your Halloween getups ego costumes, id costumes, or superego costumes? That sort of thing. But today, as soon as I flourish the forms, a buzz rises in the room. Today they write their assessments of the course, their assessments of me, and they are without a doubt wide-awake. "What is your evaluation of the instructor?" asks question number eight, entreating them to circle a number between five (excellent) and one (poor, poor). Whatever interpretive subtlety they've acquired during the term is now out the window. Edmundson: one to five, stand and shoot.

And they do. As I retreat through the door -- I never stay around for this phase of the ritual -- I look over my shoulder and see them toiling away like the devil's auditors. They're pitched into high writing gear, even the ones who struggle to squeeze out their journal entries word by word, stoked on a procedure they have by now supremely mastered. They're playing the informed consumer, letting the provider know where he's come through and where he's not quite up to snuff.

But why am I so distressed, bolting like a refugee out of my own classroom, where I usually hold easy sway? Chances are the evaluations will be much like what they've been in the past -- they'll be just fine. It's likely that I'll be commended for being "interesting" (and I am commended, many times over), that I'll be cited for my relaxed and tolerant ways (that happens, too), that my sense of humor and capacity to connect the arcana of the subject matter with current culture will come in for some praise (yup). I've been hassled this term, finishing a manuscript, and so haven't given their journals the attention I should have, and for that I'm called -- quite civilly, though -- to account.. Overall, I get off pretty well.

Yet I have to admit that I do not much like the image of myself that emerges from these forms, the image of knowledgeable, humorous detachment and bland tolerance. I do not like the forms themselves, with their number ratings, reminiscent of the sheets circulated after the TV pilot has just played to its sample audience in Burbank. Most of all I dislike the attitude of calm consumer expertise that pervades the responses. I'm disturbed by the serene belief that my function -- and, more important, Freud's, or Shakespeare's, or Blake's -- is to divert, entertain, and interest. Observes one respondent, not at all unrepresentative: "Edmundson has done a fantastic job of presenting this difficult, important & controversial material in an enjoyable and approachable way."

Thanks but no thanks. I don't teach to amuse, to divert, or even, for that matter, to be merely interesting. When someone says she "enjoyed" the course -- and that word crops up again and again in my evaluations -- somewhere at the edge of my immediate complacency I feel encroaching self-dislike. That is not at all what I had in mind. The off-the-wall questions and the sidebar jokes are meant as lead-ins to stronger stuff -- in the case of the Freud course, to a complexly tragic view of life. But the affability and the one-liners often seem to be all that land with the students; their journals and evaluations leave me little doubt.

I want some of them to say that they've been changed by the course. I want them to measure themselves against what they've read. It's said that some time ago a Columbia University instructor used to issue a harsh two-part question. One: What book did you most dislike in the course? Two: What intellectual or characterological flaws in you does that dislike point to? The hand that framed that question was surely heavy. But at least it compels one to see intellectual work as a confrontation between two people, student and author, where the stakes matter. Those Columbia s&dents were being asked to relate the quality of an encounter, not rate the action as though it had unfolded on the big screen.

Why are my students describing the Oedipus complex and the death drive as being interesting and enjoyable to contemplate? And why am I coming across as an urbane, mildly ironic, endlessly affable guide to this intellectual territory, operating without intensity, generous, funny, and loose?

Because that's what works. On evaluation day, I reap the rewards of my partial compliance with the culture of my students and, too, with the culture of the university as it now operates. It's a culture that's gotten little exploration. Current critics tend to think that liberal-arts education is in crisis because universities have been invaded by professors with peculiar ideas: deconstruction, Lacanianism, feminism, queer theory. They believe that genius and tradition are out and that P.C., multiculturalism, and identity politics are in because of an invasion by tribes of tenured radicals, the late millennial equivalents of the Visigoth hordes that cracked Rome's walls.






....


Ultimately, though, it is up to individuals -- and individual students in particular -- to make their own way against the current sludgy tide. There's still the library, still the museum, there's still the occasional teacher who lives to find things greater than herself to admire. There are still fellow students who have not been cowed. Universities are inefficient, cluttered, archaic places, with many unguarded comers where one can open a book or gaze out onto the larger world and construe it freely. Those who do as much, trusting themselves against the weight of current opinion, will have contributed something to bringing this sad dispensation to an end. As for myself, I'm canning my low-key one-liners; when the kids' TV-based tastes come to the fore, I'll aim and shoot. And when it's time to praise genius, I'll try to do it in the right style, full-out, with faith that finer artistic spirits (maybe not Homer and Isaiah quite, but close, close), still alive somewhere in the ether, will help me out when my invention flags, the students doze, or the dean mutters into the phone. I'm getting back to a more exuberant style; I'll be expostulating and arm waving straight into the millennium, yes I will.


...thoughts, anyone?

Paulclem
01-29-2011, 09:37 PM
What's your take on this article?

Logos
01-30-2011, 04:07 AM
I don't know where you got this article from but please, do not quote it in full, give credit where it is due. See Forum Rule #5..

http://www.online-literature.com/forums/announcement.php?f=9

--

The Atheist
01-30-2011, 01:34 PM
Okay, this is a long, intimidating post. Read it anyway-- this is definitely worth it.

Agree. I found it entertaining.


Why are my students describing the Oedipus complex and the death drive as being interesting and enjoyable to contemplate? And why am I coming across as an urbane, mildly ironic, endlessly affable guide to this intellectual territory, operating without intensity, generous, funny, and loose?

A: Because young people generally never have got their rocks off at the eternal verities.

B: You're teaching arts for god's sake!

Thank you.


...thoughts, anyone?

20th century Facebook "likes".

The whole like/dislike thing disturbs me a little; popularity has never been a measure of anything beyond popularity, as far as I'm aware.

Baudolina
02-14-2011, 12:55 PM
I'm going to say something unpopular. The majority of people in college, particularly in classes such as these, do not belong there. They are in school to acquire a degree to get a job. There is nothing wrong with wanting to (just) get a job, but these people are cluttering up the colleges and universities, just as the children from prominent families who received gentleman's Cs cluttered the schools up 50 and more years ago. So most of them simply do not have the temperament to care about matters such as Freud.

The Comedian
02-14-2011, 01:29 PM
I think this guy sounds like a self-important jackass. When a student who comments that he or she "likes" or "enjoys" the course could be saying all sorts of things: from "I enjoyed your stories" to "I felt challenged" and, for me at least, all of that is just fine.

A liberal arts course may be many different things for many different students. . . .but more than that: I personally think that a really good course, one that's dynamic, interesting, challenging, though-provoking, entertaining. . .all that stuff will, at best put students a few steps along the path to greater understanding, interests, and wisdom. That is, don't expect your little seminar, (O' wise Professor!), to be the French Revolution. It won't be. And it doesn't have to be to be worthwhile.

I mean a student who may generally "like" a biology course may further his or her study in that subject and in so doing, and in life's application of that material, learn a great many things about life and human experience. . . .may even get a decent job because of it. That student was put on a path that he or she may not have taken. So good for him. Good for her. And good for the instructor. Your 16-week course when you told those few stories made a real difference. It may not have seemed so at the time, but in the long run. Yes.

Mutatis-Mutandis
02-14-2011, 02:26 PM
I'm going to say something unpopular. The majority of people in college, particularly in classes such as these, do not belong there. They are in school to acquire a degree to get a job. There is nothing wrong with wanting to (just) get a job, but these people are cluttering up the colleges and universities,

That's not their fault, though, as a degree is needed for many jobs.

OrphanPip
02-14-2011, 02:57 PM
There are serious issues with those instructor evaluations though.

Studies have shown that people will rank instructors highly if they teach them gibberish but do so in an engaging and entertaining fashion, and that they are probably going to rate a challenging teacher poorly.

This isn't to say that an enjoyable lecturer can't also challenge her students, but it does mean those evaluations aren't exactly productive for improving the quality of education.

I also approve of going to school to get a degree to get a job, because I, much like those students, live in the real world and have to feed ourselves so we can't just be puttering around learning merely for personal improvement. The notion that we should be using colleges merely for centers of cultural refinement and learning is absurd, it hinges on elitist assumptions of leisure or maybe even just naive ignorance of what the world is really like out there.

The Comedian
02-14-2011, 03:13 PM
There are serious issues with those instructor evaluations though.

Ha! Too true, this. Quick story: a while back our college was big into "critical thinking" and having our students say on those feedback forms that they were engaged in "critical thinking". So you know what I did?

I named all of my assignments "Critical Thinking activity" but otherwise changed my assignments in NO WAY AT ALL. And my marks for "engages in critical thinking"? Through the roof, baby! :lol:

Baudolina
02-14-2011, 03:51 PM
I named all of my assignments "Critical Thinking activity" but otherwise changed my assignments in NO WAY AT ALL. And my marks for "engages in critical thinking"? Through the roof, baby! :lol:

That is hilarious.

Baudolina
02-14-2011, 03:55 PM
I also approve of going to school to get a degree to get a job, because I, much like those students, live in the real world and have to feed ourselves so we can't just be puttering around learning merely for personal improvement. The notion that we should be using colleges merely for centers of cultural refinement and learning is absurd, it hinges on elitist assumptions of leisure or maybe even just naive ignorance of what the world is really like out there.

What I'm saying is that we need a serious overhaul of our educational system. We need to change things so that people *do not need* to go to college in order to support themselves and their families. I don't blame my students for not wanting to be there in a math class they only are taking to fulfill a requirement, to get a degree, to get a job. It is time that the K-12 system was overhauled to actually (gasp!) prepare people to support themselves without having to sit through classes they are not interested in, and what's worse, go into outrageous debt in the process.

Lokasenna
02-14-2011, 04:53 PM
Though I think the article mentioned in the OP is rather too cynical, I think there is a definite point. When I did my undergrad, I could see that there were a lot of students who had come along because they simply wanted to go to university, and hadn't thought much beyond the fact that they occasionally liked to do a spot of reading.

So many times, I'd turn up to a seminar, and while waiting outside the room I would hear some variant on the following conversation:

"So, have you read the novel?"
"Well, no. I'll just keep quiet. What about you?"
"I've read the first ten pages. I figured that'd be enough. How was last night?"
"I dunno. I think we got in about 5:00 am. We were well hammered - I've had, like, 2 hours sleep."

And so on...

The problem was that my tutors were, for the most part, a supportive bunch who wanted everybody to contribute in discussions. This lead to painful amounts of time being wasted as the tutor kept trying to tease opinions and details out of barely conscious zombies who hadn't even had the decency to read the damn book. Not only were they wasting their time, they were wasting mine as well. It made me angry then, and it makes me angry now. People should not be doing a degree if they are not interested or passionate about it. If you worked out how much you were paying on a per hour basis for those sessions, they were incredibly expensive (particularly for an arts student) - I could not justify spending that much money without getting something for it.

I'm familiar with about half a dozen top notch British universities, and I have seen students like this at all of them, including both Oxford and Cambridge. I appreciate that not everyone is going to have an academic career ahead of them, or that they are even necessarily going to do well. But, honestly, what is the point of spending that much money, and three years of your life, without even applying any effort to what you are doing?

LitNetIsGreat
02-14-2011, 05:46 PM
So many times, I'd turn up to a seminar, and while waiting outside the room I would hear some variant on the following conversation:

"So, have you read the novel?"
"Well, no. I'll just keep quiet. What about you?"
"I've read the first ten pages. I figured that'd be enough. How was last night?"
"I dunno. I think we got in about 5:00 am. We were well hammered - I've had, like, 2 hours sleep."

And so on...

The problem was that my tutors were, for the most part, a supportive bunch who wanted everybody to contribute in discussions. This lead to painful amounts of time being wasted as the tutor kept trying to tease opinions and details out of barely conscious zombies who hadn't even had the decency to read the damn book. Not only were they wasting their time, they were wasting mine as well. It made me angry then, and it makes me angry now. People should not be doing a degree if they are not interested or passionate about it. If you worked out how much you were paying on a per hour basis for those sessions, they were incredibly expensive (particularly for an arts student) - I could not justify spending that much money without getting something for it.

I'm familiar with about half a dozen top notch British universities, and I have seen students like this at all of them, including both Oxford and Cambridge. I appreciate that not everyone is going to have an academic career ahead of them, or that they are even necessarily going to do well. But, honestly, what is the point of spending that much money, and three years of your life, without even applying any effort to what you are doing?

And then there are the missing ones. The ones who would relish the opportunity but who can't afford to be there or they don't know the right people or they are not born of that world. It's my opinion that the type you describe should be thrown out and the opportunity (which is golden let's face it) given to the more deserving. It's survival of the richest though of course so that would never happen...

Of course the real insult is that even those types you describe will probably end up walking out with a 2:2/2:1 which will still carry weight coming from a top university and having the right sort of contacts on the other side. Straight into a good job to perpetuate the cycle!

Baudolina
02-14-2011, 06:10 PM
Gee, I thought this was just an American problem...

LitNetIsGreat
02-14-2011, 06:14 PM
Gee, I thought this was just an American problem...

Oh no, welcome to Britain - great land of social divide and equal opportunity for some...:goof:

Lokasenna
02-14-2011, 06:27 PM
And then there are the missing ones. The ones who would relish the opportunity but who can't afford to be there or they don't know the right people or they are not born of that world. It's my opinion that the type you describe should be thrown out and the opportunity (which is golden let's face it) given to the more deserving. It's survival of the richest though of course so that would never happen...

Of course the real insult is that even those types you describe will probably end up walking out with a 2:2/2:1 which will still carry weight coming from a top university and having the right sort of contacts on the other side. Straight into a good job to perpetuate the cycle!

Agreed!

Wilde woman
02-14-2011, 09:09 PM
I'll be honest. I saw a bit of myself in the students that Edmundson was criticizing. I agree with a lot of what he's saying, but at the same time, I feel like lots of students are like this because...

1) EVERYTHING is marketable now. That is simply how the world runs, like it or not.

2) Half the classes we take are requirements anyways, which are not necessarily meant to be enjoyable. But they are practical, even for the arts student. I had to slog through a class on the 18th-century novel to figure out that I hated it. But slogging through Middle English was awesome, and helped me decide to study medieval lit at the graduate level.

and...

3) How do you teach humanities/arts classes WITHOUT like/dislike comments? Especially at the undergraduate level? Even though scholars don't particularly care about your visceral gut reaction to a literary work, it's a good starting point for discussion, and tends to engage your students more than simply giving them a dry historical context and close readings. Let's face it: humanities courses are discussion-based, so it doesn't make sense to cut out personal reactions from the discussion. And it really is only through reading/discussion with others that a student discovers what really interests them in a text. AND, try as you might, one is simply not interested in every text put before him/her. I've run across texts which simply didn't engage me enough for me to form an opinion, one way or the other. Some works simply don't speak to you.


"So, have you read the novel?"
"Well, no. I'll just keep quiet. What about you?"
"I've read the first ten pages. I figured that'd be enough. How was last night?"
"I dunno. I think we got in about 5:00 am. We were well hammered - I've had, like, 2 hours sleep."

Yeah, I definitely remember my undergrad courses being somewhat like this. But, Lok, don't you find that much less frequently at the graduate level?


those types you describe will probably end up walking out with a 2:2/2:1

What do those numbers mean? Is it the British equivalent of our GPA system?

OrphanPip
02-14-2011, 09:18 PM
What do those numbers mean? Is it the British equivalent of our GPA system?

A 2:1 is like a 3.0, but there are different courses of study sometimes.

Edit: It's not an exact science though, these numbers all mean different things depending on what uni you're coming from.

Edit2: A 3.0 being 70-75 average.

LitNetIsGreat
02-15-2011, 04:46 AM
What do those numbers mean? Is it the British equivalent of our GPA system?

They're degree classifications. 70%+ marks = 1, a first, 60-69% = 2:1 (upper 2), 50-59% = 2:2, 40-49 a pass/third, below that a fail which will only usually happen if students fail to hand in work on time consistantly.

In most degree types, standard BAs for example, you have three years of study with the overall averaged marks from years two and three counting towards your final degree classification. The first year is not counted only as a pass or fail, which effectively means students can turn in just about anything and get through the first year, if they were that way inclinded.


There's a further breakdown here but it is a bit long winded:
http://www.internationalstaff.ac.uk/degree_classification.php

Lokasenna
02-15-2011, 05:07 AM
Yeah, I definitely remember my undergrad courses being somewhat like this. But, Lok, don't you find that much less frequently at the graduate level?


True, it's less frequent, but I've still observed a worryingly high level of it at postgraduate level. This is principally a result of economics - all universities run at a loss on undergraduates, but make money out of postgraduates. As a result, with most British universities it is in fact an unwritten policy to accept almost anyone who applies for a postgraduate course - they will, in reality, accept even a high 2:2. I've heard my tutor complain before now that when he looks through MA applications, he has to spend huge amounts of time hunting for a concrete reason to turn down people who are blatantly incapable or disinterested, but nonetheless scrape the minimum requirements.

Baudolina
02-15-2011, 10:03 AM
Over here it's kind of reversed. They make money off the undergrads, and then if you are a Ph.D. student they actually pay you, to teach the undergrads.

Baudolina
02-15-2011, 10:10 AM
One other thing. If you are in school simply in order to get a (non-technical) job upon graduation, then the students in this exchange



"So, have you read the novel?"
"Well, no. I'll just keep quiet. What about you?"
"I've read the first ten pages. I figured that'd be enough. How was last night?"
"I dunno. I think we got in about 5:00 am. We were well hammered - I've had, like, 2 hours sleep."


are, ironically, doing the correct thing. Everyone knows that your grades mean nothing for getting a job with a bachelor's degree (again, non-technical), and that what is important are your connections and your extracurricular activities. The frat boys aren't stupid, at least not when it comes to practical matters.

keilj
02-15-2011, 11:34 AM
Ha! Too true, this. Quick story: a while back our college was big into "critical thinking" and having our students say on those feedback forms that they were engaged in "critical thinking". So you know what I did?

I named all of my assignments "Critical Thinking activity" but otherwise changed my assignments in NO WAY AT ALL. And my marks for "engages in critical thinking"? Through the roof, baby! :lol:

brilliant

:thumbsup:

Hurricane
02-15-2011, 02:03 PM
There are serious issues with those instructor evaluations though.

I remember talking to one of my professors about instructor evaluations and rate my professor. His favorite was the kid who just drew a giant middle finger.

So, yes, sometimes they are not always constructive.

BienvenuJDC
02-15-2011, 05:58 PM
I think that the universities really need to broaden their humanities courses that are offered. Can you imagine a school offering a gun safety course? Or even a study of how volunteers have contributed to society (volunteer firefighters, hospital workers, etc)? Maybe a class that exposes the true nature of small business owners and how they are effected by the heavy tax structures imposed by government?

Wilde woman
02-17-2011, 03:55 AM
with most British universities it is in fact an unwritten policy to accept almost anyone who applies for a postgraduate course - they will, in reality, accept even a high 2:2. I've heard my tutor complain before now that when he looks through MA applications, he has to spend huge amounts of time hunting for a concrete reason to turn down people who are blatantly incapable or disinterested, but nonetheless scrape the minimum requirements.

Wow. It's so different here. Ph.D. programs are quite competitive partially because there are a lot of people competing for a finite amount of funding. And graduate applications are a pain in the butt. Not only do you have to do practically everything you did for your undergrad application, but also more standardized testing, longer writing samples, more letters of recommendation. I remember having to reformat my writing sample countless times because each university wanted a different page length. And the application process is expensive as hell!


Over here it's kind of reversed. They make money off the undergrads, and then if you are a Ph.D. student they actually pay you, to teach the undergrads.

And funding for MA students is really sketchy. At my school, the MA program is one year, so very short. What that means is that they get very little funding, and many have to work as they complete the program. We've got twice as many MA students as Ph.D. students every year, which basically means that the fees the MA students pay are funding the fellowships for the Ph.D. students. How messed up is that? :rolleyes5:

Lokasenna
02-17-2011, 05:15 AM
Wow. It's so different here. Ph.D. programs are quite competitive partially because there are a lot of people competing for a finite amount of funding. And graduate applications are a pain in the butt. Not only do you have to do practically everything you did for your undergrad application, but also more standardized testing, longer writing samples, more letters of recommendation. I remember having to reformat my writing sample countless times because each university wanted a different page length. And the application process is expensive as hell!


Ah, I should point out that funding is a seperate issue entirely. If you apply for a postgraduate course at a British university, you're likely to get an offer. You are also, paradoxically, highly unlikely to get funding. Take my department for example - we take on around 25 new PhD students each year. How many scholarships are there to go around. This year, it's one scholarship.

The same is true of the Masters course - around 60 students a year arrive, and there are only two scholarships available.