View Full Version : Free Flights Subject to NASA Approval ?
Musicology
09-11-2010, 11:50 AM
An attempt is being made to provide FREE return flights on commercial airlines for students and NASA employees between any two distant cities of the world. The cities to be chosen by them from any served by commercial airlines. On condition that the average flight time taken in both directions over the past year by those commercial airlines is first agreed to be published in advance by NASA. Whether NASA will agree to publish this freely available information remains to be seen. For example -
1/3
Los Angeles to Miami - approx. 2,339 miles (3,764 km)
Miami to Los Angeles - approx. 2,339 miles (3,764 km)
Flight Times (approx) - (typical) -
Usually between 5 to 5 ½ hours (depending on headwinds) either way allowing for headwinds
References -
No less than 9 commercial airlines operate between Los Angeles, CA and Miami, FL American Airways has the most nonstop flights between Los Angeles, CA and Miami, FL. And vice-versa. Ask them.
2/3
Moscow to Vienna - 1,041 miles/1,675 km.
Vienna to Moscow - 1,041 miles/1,1675 km.
Flight Times - Usually around 2 hours 40 mins (approx) either way allowing for headwinds
Note -
See Aeroflot, BA, Lufthansa etc etc etc. Ask them.
3/3
Quito to Singapore - 12,268 miles / 19,744 km.
Singapore to Quito - 12, 268 miles/ 19,744 km.
Note - United Airlines and numerous other airlines fly this route - the fastest taking approximately 11 hrs 35 mines either way allowing for headwinds. Ask them.
Source - (typical)
Sources - http://www.travelmath.com/flight-distance/
Conclusion
The public are invited to experience at no charge an Earth which is NOT ''rotating west to east'' by timing for themselves ANY long distance commercial flight they may choose between two distant cities of their choice served by airline commercial routes. At which time they will discover the Earth below them is refusing to ''rotate at a speed of hundreds of miles an hour from west to east'' below them. Since both legs of their journey between their chosen two distant cities will be seen as taking approximately the same time (allowing for headwinds). Give or take 20%.
Students and NASA employees are specially invited to take up this offer. On condition they are first able to obtain from NASA written agreement by them that the times of these flights (both legs) are published by them on their website.
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OrphanPip
09-11-2010, 01:26 PM
You still don't understand inertia or frames of reference, do you?
dafydd manton
09-11-2010, 01:34 PM
Ah, sorry, I seem to have missed something. Is this important? Will it affect anybody?
OrphanPip
09-11-2010, 01:41 PM
Ah, sorry, I seem to have missed something. Is this important? Will it affect anybody?
No, you see Music thinks the Earth doesn't rotate and is at the center of the universe. Part of his belief is that if the Earth rotates then airplanes traveling East should fly faster because he thinks the Earth would rotate under them in the opposite direction. I.e. he doesn't understand basic physics.
TheFifthElement
09-11-2010, 02:10 PM
Not this old chestnut again! Musicology, you've got the flight time all wrong. See you say:
Flight Times (approx) - (typical) -
Usually between 5 to 5 ½ hours (depending on headwinds) either way allowing for headwinds
but in fact the flight times are not the same East to West as West to East. Taking your Miami-Los Angeles flight as an example, the flight times are as follows:
Plane leaves Miami: 11:05am
Plane arrives Los Angeles: 1:25pm
flight time = 2hrs 20 minutes
return flight:
Plane leaves Los Angeles: 3pm
Plane arrives Miami: 10:50pm
flight time = 7hrs 50 minutes.
Based on an average travelling speed of 400km per hour the second flight has travelled 2200km further than the first flight.
OrphanPip
09-11-2010, 02:30 PM
The flight should take about 4-5 hours either way, depending on the direction of the wind. I think you forgot to account for the 3 hours time different between FL and CA.
Anyway, the point is that Music's argument that a plane going East should reach its destination faster if the Earth rotates is wrong, which is easy to identify by a simple thought experiment of two bees traveling in a moving train. Bee 1 starts at the front of the train, and bee 2 at the back, they travel to the other end at the same speed, they arrive, respectively, at the other end at the same time.
edit: http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/dynamics/q0027.shtml
In your example
The West to East Flight took 4:50
And the East to West took 5:20
To be expected since winds travel West to East.
TheFifthElement
09-11-2010, 02:46 PM
The flight should take about 4-5 hours either way, depending on the direction of the wind. I think you forgot to account for the 3 hours time different between FL and CA.
No Orphanpip, I haven't forgotten to take anything into account. My point is that 5 hours do not pass between the flight setting off and the flight arriving, although you may have spent 5 hours in the air. The same is not true of a North-South flight. The difference in time passed when we travel West-East or East-West arises because whilst we are in the air the Earth has rotated West to East relative to its position against the sun. If we are measuring the time it takes to take the flight, this must be taken into account. Otherwise, using the simplistic mathematics Musicology has used, one would expect to arrive in Los Angeles at 4:05pm, and in Miami at 8pm. But that doesn't happen, because in the course of the flight we have not just travelled in distance but also in time. The same time differential will not be in evidence in a North-South flight because the flight takes place in the same time zone, the Earth does not rotate North-South therefore the flight time is unaffected both in terms of time in the air and time taken to travel.
It is much simpler, to me anyway, than your example with the bees :D
Musicology
09-11-2010, 05:04 PM
'Frames of reference', indeed !!!!
Either the Earth is rotating on its axis at a speed of close to 900 miles an hour at the equator underneath flights in both directions (West to East) or it is not.
It is not ! Which perfectly explains why flights from any major city across the entire globe to any other major city run by commercial airlines take around the same time to finish their flights in either direction (allowing for headwind etc). Can you find any example where this is not true ? Choose the cities and we can check this right here.
If the Earth is rotating it is rotating in one and only direction. It is NOT rotating in all directions at the same time, is it ??? It is said to be rotating from West to East at over 900 mph at the equator, isn't it ?
The actual data from each and every commercial airline today operating in the entire world is freely available. Explanation is simple. The Earth is NOT ROTATING ! Choose any two cities today serving each other in the entire world and produce their usual flight times in both directions. Allowing for headwinds they will be virtually the same. Big problem, Mr Copernicus !!!
And the myth of the 'rotating Earth' (for which Copernicus produced not a shred of evidence in his own publications) is nothing more than a mediaeval Venetian myth. Taught till now by NASA and other media mythmakers.
Provide some physical evidence. Not much to ask, is it ??
But too simple to answer, as usual.
Nonsense ! What is the source of your 'information' ? You haven't told us.
It has crossed several time zones. You seem to have forgotten that. Please tell us the airline timetable and the source of your flight time information.
I think you are confused.
The distance between them is the very same in either direction. The flight time taken is the same. Want to correspond with the airline on this, or shall I ? The only difference between flight times is the headwind. Flights between Los Angeles and Miami are similar in duration to those between Miami and Los Angeles. So says the information available from no less than 9 different commercial airlines. Unless you show us differently, of course. :hand:
Not this old chestnut again! Musicology, you've got the flight time all wrong. See you say:
but in fact the flight times are not the same East to West as West to East. Taking your Miami-Los Angeles flight as an example, the flight times are as follows:
Plane leaves Miami: 11:05am
Plane arrives Los Angeles: 1:25pm
flight time = 2hrs 20 minutes
return flight:
Plane leaves Los Angeles: 3pm
Plane arrives Miami: 10:50pm
flight time = 7hrs 50 minutes.
Based on an average travelling speed of 400km per hour the second flight has travelled 2200km further than the first flight.
dafydd manton
09-11-2010, 05:19 PM
And yet, we use the same fuel! Funny, that! I wonder how we do it, same IAS, same JPTs, same FL, same old CSC, same everything, but it's hundreds of air-miles further. How is this? I only ask so that I'll know before my next trip, that's all. Must be an Air Engineers nightmare, all this expanding universe stuff.
Musicology
09-11-2010, 05:21 PM
Well, the duration of long distance flights between different airports is information which speaks for itself. It proves beyond all possible doubt that the Earth is NOT rotating at a speed of around 900 mph at the equator. And your denial of this fact speaks for itself. The only exception is headwinds. So says the actual evidence.
What does this tell us about your spectacle frames, oops 'frames of reference' ?
No, you see Music thinks the Earth doesn't rotate and is at the center of the universe. Part of his belief is that if the Earth rotates then airplanes traveling East should fly faster because he thinks the Earth would rotate under them in the opposite direction. I.e. he doesn't understand basic physics.
LOL !!!
Yes, one flight is assisted/impeded by headwinds, of course. But, other than that, they are the same. The distance is the very same.
And on a flight of, say, 5 hours, the Earth has supposedly rotated some 4,500miles west to east while we are in the air !! So a pilot flying east to west would not land till the Earth has rotated completely - because it alleged the Earth is rotating far faster in the opposite direction than his own east to west flight !!!!! Let's ask the airlines about actual flight durations in both directions. Nothing like hard facts, are there ?
And yet, we use the same fuel! Funny, that! I wonder how we do it, same IAS, same JPTs, same FL, same old CSC, same everything, but it's hundreds of air-miles further. How is this? I only ask so that I'll know before my next trip, that's all. Must be an Air Engineers nightmare, all this expanding universe stuff.
dafydd manton
09-11-2010, 05:26 PM
Pardon? How does that stack up against Bernoulli's Principle? And why am I not scattered amongst the wreckage somewhere?
Musicology
09-11-2010, 05:30 PM
Let's ask the airline about the actual flight duration. In both directions. How does that suit you ?
Miami to Los Angeles
Los Angeles to Miami
Agreed ?
No Orphanpip, I haven't forgotten to take anything into account. My point is that 5 hours do not pass between the flight setting off and the flight arriving, although you may have spent 5 hours in the air. The same is not true of a North-South flight. The difference in time passed when we travel West-East or East-West arises because whilst we are in the air the Earth has rotated West to East relative to its position against the sun. If we are measuring the time it takes to take the flight, this must be taken into account. Otherwise, using the simplistic mathematics Musicology has used, one would expect to arrive in Los Angeles at 4:05pm, and in Miami at 8pm. But that doesn't happen, because in the course of the flight we have not just travelled in distance but also in time. The same time differential will not be in evidence in a North-South flight because the flight takes place in the same time zone, the Earth does not rotate North-South therefore the flight time is unaffected both in terms of time in the air and time taken to travel.
It is much simpler, to me anyway, than your example with the bees :D
If Bernoulli's Principle doesn't stack up with the actual flight times where does that leave Bernouilli's Principle ? :confused5:
Los Angeles to Miami - average flight time ?
Miami to Los Angeles - average flight time ?
I know ! Why don't we ask a plumber, a candelestick maker, or a baker ? Or how about an airline ?
Pardon? How does that stack up against Bernoulli's Principle? And why am I not scattered amongst the wreckage somewhere?
dafydd manton
09-11-2010, 05:33 PM
Yes, I know all that. How do the lads from NASA feel, I wonder, when they are told that their observations are incorrect, and what they saw with their own eyes is a falsehood. or could it be that the Earth and its atmosphere rotate?
If Bernoulli's Principle doesn't stack up with the actual flight times where does that leave Bernouilli's Principle ? :confused5:
Los Angeles to Miami - average flight time
Miami to Los Angeles - average flight time
I know ! Why don't we ask a plumber, or a baker ? How about an airline reservations hotline ?
As said before, scattered in the wreckage, because the aeroplane won't fly. Simples. Aeroplanes that won't fly are generally unpopular with the crews, they get tetchy, tend to develop headcolds and the like, that preclude flying. Have fun with your argument, but I shall bow gracefully out, and make sure the Eng switches cross-flow fuel-cocks over at the same time, thanks.
Musicology
09-11-2010, 05:37 PM
Well, let's ask the airlines themselves.
''Ring, ring'' !!
Caller - How long is the average flight from Los Angeles to Miami ?
And -
How long is the average flight from the same airline from Miami to Los Angeles ?
Er ?????
Is this so difficult ???
Yes, I know all that. How do the lads from NASA feel, I wonder, when they are told that their observations are incorrect, and what they saw with their own eyes is a falsehood. or could it be that the Earth and its atmosphere rotate?
dafydd manton
09-11-2010, 05:41 PM
No, simple. Prevailing winds. Very very simple indeed. Minor diffreences casued by two things. Prevailing winds and jet stream which is variably effective at different flight levels, and if all flights went at the same level, they would bang in to each other. one is above the other. Therefore, different jetstrream effect. So incredibly simple, tried, trusted, proven, demonstrated thousands and thousands of times every single day, highly predicable in most cases, and planned for. That is all. Very, very simple. Ask someone who has done it. Oh..... Good night.
Musicology
09-11-2010, 05:42 PM
There is no 'argument'. Just the wholesale gullibility of a 'nasified' population ? Courtesy of Mr Copernicus.
'Professing themselves to be wise they became fools' etc.
As said before, scattered in the wreckage, because the aeroplane won't fly. Simples. Aeroplanes that won't fly are generally unpopular with the crews, they get tetchy, tend to develop headcolds and the like, that preclude flying. Have fun with your argument, but I shall bow gracefully out, and make sure the Eng switches cross-flow fuel-cocks over at the same time, thanks.
And here is an interesting website -
Average Flight Times between Cities
http://www.howmanyhours.com/fly.php
Does it get more simple ?????
Copernicus 0
Reality 1
:party:
papayahed
09-11-2010, 06:43 PM
The title promised free flights, where's my free flight? Does that cover my luggage? Are there any blackout dates?
Musicology
09-12-2010, 04:34 PM
Hi papayahed,
The name of the thread is 'Free Flights Subject to NASA Approval ' ? (question mark).
Whether the public would finally realise these flights between two major distant cities across the globe take around the same time (inward flight and outward flight - subject of course to wind resistance and them taking the same route at around the same speed) is the big question.
The airlines already have this information. And it either supports the 'rotation of the Earth, west to east, at around 900mph at the equator' or it does not. It clearly does not. That means Copernicus is in big trouble.
Regards
The title promised free flights, where's my free flight? Does that cover my luggage? Are there any blackout dates?
Typical Results -
Flight time London to Moscow is apprimately around 3 hours 40 minutes
London to Moscow: 3 hr 54 mins. More flight times ...
www.cheapflights.co.uk/flight-guide-to-Moscow/
And Moscow to London flight times are around 4 hours, 0 minutes.
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:vfBNCb6ym4QJ:www.farecompare.com/flights/Moscow-MOW/London-
LON/market.html+moscow+to+london+flight+time&cd=11&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk
Around the same !!!
So, how far has Earth rotated West to East during those hours ?
a. 3,600 miles (4 hrs times 900 mph west to east)
b. More or Less than this
c. It has NOT ROTATED AT ALL ?
These facts are typical and they clearly indicate it (the Earth) is NOT rotating at high speed on its axis during flights between Moscow and London nor between London and Moscow ! So why do we believe differently ?
DanielBenoit
09-12-2010, 05:54 PM
I can't believe that this subject has come up again! It's so obvious that the earth is flat and at the center of the universe! Just look at the photographic evidence!!
http://homepage.mac.com/kvmagruder/hsci/images/flatEarth.jpg
The Atheist
09-12-2010, 11:10 PM
I can't believe that this subject has come up again!
Oh, I can.
I just hope everyone gets the irony of the subject coming up while Venus and Jupiter are giving such a glorious show right now.
Musicology
09-13-2010, 05:42 AM
You don't need to be brainwashed !! Stop believing the NASA fiction. Read the evidence !!
http://sites.google.com/site/earthdeception/
http://www.galileowaswrong.com/galileowaswrong/
http://www.fixedearth.com/
And ring your airline office for flight times between all major cities in the entire world. They are virtually the same in either direction ! How much more simple does it get ?
Maybe 'Earth rotating on its axis at hundreds of miles an hour, west to east' was on holiday when you called them ?
If that doesn't help just watch the baseball or basketball game. As usual. LOL !
Windup
09-13-2010, 10:51 AM
So Music if I jump straight into the air, will the earth move under me?
Seriously...
dafydd manton
09-13-2010, 12:15 PM
That 14 minutes Moscow, assuming that you mean LHR to Sheremetevo, is accounted for by the differing approach patterns and airlanes at both ends of the trip. If you look at the pattern for Moscow, you will see the answer, it is really ever so simple. You have to fly further, at low speeds, which takes time. Same with Heathrow, you can't just get off the ground and point at Russia, ICAO take a dim view.
Still, it's this sort of discussion that makes the world go round, isn't it?
The Atheist
09-13-2010, 02:01 PM
So Music if I jump straight into the air, will the earth move under me?
Seriously...
Even I can answer that one - no, of course not.
Why would the earth move? It's stationary. If it were spinning, there would be a 1000 mph wind at the surface.
Just make sure when you're on a train, or even worse, an aeroplane, that you do not jump in the air.
DanielBenoit
09-13-2010, 07:44 PM
Just make sure when you're on a train, or even worse, an aeroplane, that you do not jump in the air.
Omg :smilielol5:
They should post warning signs.
altheskeptic
09-28-2010, 08:26 PM
This post has to be a joke, right?
If the earth is rotating...which it is...The plane sitting on the earth is moving also. East or west, north or south, from point A to point B ( with no wind) should take the same time.
If you drop a baseball off a moving train the baseball is moving at the same speed as the train. If a train is moving at fifty mph. and you throw a baseball ahead of the train at 20 mph. (measured from the train), the baseball is moving at 70 mph measured from the ground.
It is all relative.
So...if I stand on a platform and the platform falls from a seventy story building, all I have to do is jump off the platform just before it hits the ground and I will be okay...right?
DanielBenoit
09-28-2010, 08:40 PM
This post has to be a joke, right?
No it is not my friend, it may be hard to believe but Musicology is totally sincere. Not only does he think the earth is the center of the universe, but that Haydn actually wrote Bach's music and that Mozart is merely some construction invented by the Germans for cultural significance (I probably got it wrong, but you get the gist of it). He also believes that the governments of the world are and have been spreading "chem-trails" by plane in order to poison and terrorize their populations. To top that off, he also believes that Einstein was a fraud and that his wife actually came up with the theories and that they are also untrue and false (not surprising coming from a geocentrist).
Silas Thorne
09-28-2010, 09:28 PM
No, Geocentrism isn't for me, I'm off to join the Flat Earth Society, they know the truth! But I hope they'll let me in. ;)
http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm
If you want to join too, make sure you read the disclaimer at the bottom of the page first.
altheskeptic
09-28-2010, 09:30 PM
No it is not my friend, it may be hard to believe but Musicology is totally sincere. Not only does he think the earth is the center of the universe, but that Haydn actually wrote Bach's music and that Mozart is merely some construction invented by the Germans for cultural significance (I probably got it wrong, but you get the gist of it). He also believes that the governments of the world are and have been spreading "chem-trails" by plane in order to poison and terrorize their populations. To top that off, he also believes that Einstein was a fraud and that his wife actually came up with the theories and that they are also untrue and false (not surprising coming from a geocentrist).
There are two words that come to mind when people make statements such as the world is flat etc.
prove it
DanielBenoit
09-28-2010, 09:33 PM
There are two words that come to mind when people make statements such as the world is flat etc. prove it
Well besides the sarcastic comments being made by people (myself among them) no one here is claiming the earth to be flat. It's Musicology here who is the lone wolf in claiming that we live in a geocentric universe.
No, Geocentrism isn't for me, I'm off to join the Flat Earth Society, they know the truth! But I hope they'll let me in. ;)
http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm
If you want to join too, make sure you read the disclaimer at the bottom of the page first.
"Deprogramming the masses since 1547"
:lol: :lol:
The Atheist
09-29-2010, 01:50 PM
As I checked out Jupiter this morning, I wonder quietly what the hell these people will think when Jupiter & Venus pass each other going in opposite directions in our sky. This should be in about 3 months, is my guess.
I'll try to remember to post photos.
dafydd manton
09-29-2010, 04:19 PM
No, Geocentrism isn't for me, I'm off to join the Flat Earth Society, they know the truth! But I hope they'll let me in. ;)
http://www.alaska.net/~clund/e_djublonskopf/Flatearthsociety.htm
If you want to join too, make sure you read the disclaimer at the bottom of the page first.
Silas, please, the earth is not flat, everybody knows that, it is actually banana shaped. That which you think is stalk is the north pole, ask anybody that has been there. Unmistakeable! I know, I've flown over it many times, and that is the point that all the theories start going backwards, and you get to your destination days late, sometimes. Hence radio compasses, the magnetic ones tell lies. Also, why polar bears don't have them. Ask any aircrew - none of whom are polar bears, by strange coincidence.
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