Need to choose a language - recommendations?

[ktm5124]

I need to choose a foreign language to learn for my university language requirement, as I will be taking classes in that language this summer. I haven't exactly "narrowed it down yet" - I am currently considering four different options: Spanish, French, Attic Greek, and Russian.

I am attracted to Ancient Greek because there is no spoken component - in general, I am attracted to dead languages because they can be learned quite comfortably within the US.

When I graduate I plan to travel, and live for a year or two in Spain or France. I already have three years of high school Spanish under my belt, which would allow me to speak a crude yet passable Spanish. I figure that since I will be learning Spanish and French after graduation, why learn them now? why not learn something else? Perhaps this is not feasible, however - maybe it is more prudent to take classes in the language before going to the country.

I am attracted to Russian simply because I want to read Russian literature in the original, more so than any other foreign literature. But I do not see myself going to Russia anytime soon, which discourages me from learning it. I have this prejudice against learning a spoken language without going to the country - I feel like it would be a waste, as I would eventually forget it.

So what are your suggestions? I seem to be leaning towards Ancient Greek tonight, but yesterday I was leaning towards Russian! It would also be helpful if people could list some famous Spanish- and French-language authors, as I am entirely unversed in those literatures.

[BienvenuJDC]

Both Russian and Greek will require you to learn a new (but similar) alphabet. I learned some of the koine Greek in preacher school. It was not extremely difficult, and it was interesting as well. Greek will help you understand some English vocabulary as well, since some English is derived from Greek. However, Spanish and French will also do this since they are Romance languages (evolved through the Roman influenced Latin). I took six years of Spanish also.

[Niamh]

If you intend to spend time in Spain and France, its best to go with one of those two. Both come in useful if you travel the globe (along with portuguese). Having fluency in these languages opens you to a lot of linguistic jobs too. :nod: Think of what will benifit your future career if you are that way inclined. Thats my advice.

Some famous french authors

Rimbaud
LaFayette
de Beauvoir
zola
Verlaine
Flaubert
De Balzac
Leroux
Verne
Hugo
Dumas

to name a few

[Hurricane]

I'm taking Russian (2nd semester) right now and I love it, I'm on the fence about minoring in it. I should note that I don't plan on going to Russia anytime soon. I do love Russian literature and culture though and would love to read some of the classics in the original Russian.
It's not nearly as hard as I thought it was going to be (I took Latin in middle/high school, and I have absolutely no natural affinity for foreign languages). Learning Cyrillic is not that bad, at least in my school it was covered in a couple days to a week at most, which sounds rushed but really isn't.
It's up to you what language you want to study. French or Spanish would likely be more useful, but I've had a blast studying Russian, in some ways because it's so different from what I did before. The pronunciation's awful, but I've never spoken another foreign language before so that's probably part of it. It's just painfully obvious I'm an American when I speak.

[ClaesGefvenberg]

I am currently considering four different options: Spanish, French, Attic Greek, and Russian.I have to say that I approve of your structured reasoning considering your alternatives. If that is your habit I daresay that it will serve you well in your life. If you want to expand on it I suggest a PMI (http://www.mindtools.com/pages/article/newTED_05.htm) (Plus Minus Interesting: I use the method but am in no way associated to the site I am linking to).
When I graduate I plan to travel, and live for a year or two in Spain or France. I already have three years of high school Spanish under my belt, which would allow me to speak a crude yet passable Spanish.The thing is that if you are going to stay there for that long you do not need to be fluent when you get there. By the time you are ready to go back home you will be anyway:

I studied French for only two years (in High School) and have to admit that I... how shall I put it... could have been more diligent. A few weeks after I had landed my first job after school and military service, I got the question: -You speak French, don't you? Uh, oh, now what? I stammered: -Yes, sort of... and was told: -Good. You are the only one here who does and our French contact is not not so hot in English. You will be going there tomorrow. Eeeeek!:eek6:

In the end everything turned out just fine: The mere fact that I made an effort trying to communicate in their language made my hosts very forgiving even though my little errors caused a lot of laughs, and suddenly something clicked. When I got back home after a week I realized that I had learned more than in a full term in school. A few more visits confirmed it: If you "immerse" yourself in a new lingo you learn it at an astonishing rate.

Anyway: Good luck :seeya:

/Claes

[Sebas. Melmoth]

I am currently considering four different options: Spanish, French, Attic Greek, and Russian.

I have great respect for Russian civilization; Germany has a great literature and culture; and some would probably recommend Spanish due to the growing number of speakers in the Americas; but for me the answer is, 'Are you kidding?--the answer is French!, hands down...'

France is the center of Western civilization; it has an huge and important literature in prose, poetry, and philosophy.

And France and Belgium are marvellous places to visit with lots and lots of things to see and do--and the people are willing to meet you half-way if you try and speak French with them: this is the definition of civility.

Good manners are still chic in France.

[Manalive]

Spanish or French would probably be more beneficial if you're going to those countries. It's always good to know something about the language before heading off to travel.

Greek is extremely difficult. Even the Greeks will tell you their language is hard! Pronunciation is probably the easiest part to get down. But remembering all the rules and words--and there are quite a lot of them-- is the hard part! (Modern Greek at least)

Russian, I've heard is easier, but I couldn't tell you from experience.

Best of luck!

[SilentMute]

It seems to me the Greek is interesting you the most.

If you have taken Spanish, then learning French will be easier because it follows the same rules. I should think that you could study Spanish in your own time rather than take a class. I know a good website, by the way, called SpanishDict.com. Spanish is a practical language to learn because so many people speak it.

It depends on what you are going to do as a career. It also depends on what languages your school offers. My college offered many languages, but most of them were not popular enough for the classes to be maintained. They were often canceled. That is another thing you may want to consider, particularly when you are going for a degree.

Then the question is do you want a hard but possibly interesting course--or depending on your other course load--would you like an easy class that will raise your GPA?

[kiki1982]

I'd take another than Spansh, because as you have a basic knowledge it is easier to elaborate on it. Starting on your own is always more difficult. There is enough incentive I think to do French because there is a great culture available to explore. Russian is a little bit more difficult to access from afar, but not impossible. I am not sure about a lot of (famous) Spanish authors... Probably the Spanish would like to kill me now, but, the only author I know off the top of my head is Cervantes and then Isabel Allende, but that's South American.

If it will help at all, I'll write down my own impressions on French, Spanish and Russian.

French is not straightforward. Its vocabulary is kind of logic. You might have some points of attachment through Spanish, but not too many. It really sounds very much different. You would have been better off with Italian in that respect. For every rule of grammar, there are about 20 exceptions and word order is not regulated apart from the basics. To sound French you just need, a lot of experience. However, spelling is not very difficult as long as you take into account whatever you have learned.

Spanish grammar is much more easily defined than French. French uses a lot more fancy stuff, certainly in writing. Spanish is a lot more straightforward.

Russian is really very logic. A lot of its vocabulary is derived from the basic word on which it is based. There are a lot of cases (unlike in Spanish and French) (6), but once you have leaned them, there are no exceptions, or barely. There are only a few conjugations for verbs and very few exceptions (countble on one hand). The alphabet is indeed not so diffucult. Once you know it, and take into account the 3 spelling rules (?) there are, then it is a piece of cake provided you know how to pronounce it properly. The unstressed o that changes into a can be a problem, but the image in your head will sort it out. Though, writing Russian is a game of calligraphy, because otherwise you can't read your own writing to save your life. ;) There is admittedly no real word order (not like in German), but that is a matter of getting used to.
They have another system of tenses. The 'aspect'-system which has its own verb variation. Other than that there ar a few quirks but nthing realy impossible.
I am happy to say that after 9 months of (self)study, I can understand basic conversation. Talking is another matter, but it depends what one's aim is. Though I am trying to talk with my hubby, because then we can communicate in secret without anyone understanding us :D. Russian has a lot of French words weirdly transcribed into Cyrrilic, so it might help knowing French first.

Spanish I find kind of easy, at least from an understanding point of view. After one year or so of Martin i Monita, Sos mi Vida, I was able to udnerstand most of it without subtitles. And that without grammar book or textbook. I could also understand basic news reports on TVE (though they speak way too fast).

And of course every language is sumblime in its most lyrical form ;)

[OrphanPip]

French frustrates me to no end. After 6 years of primary, 5 years of secondary, and 2 years of college French courses, I am still frustrated by the language. It doesn't help that I'm perpetually surrounded by French Canadians that barely speak the language properly to begin with. If I ever went to France I'd have to struggle through a Quebecois accent tinted with English.

Why don't you consider German? I've only a basic knowledge (very basic) of German, but I've found it to be much more intuitive to the native English speaker.

Edit: Kiki knows her stuff when it comes to linguistics though, so I'd trust her impressions.

[Niamh]

French frustrates me to no end. After 6 years of primary, 5 years of secondary, and 2 years of college French courses, I am still frustrated by the language. It doesn't help that I'm perpetually surrounded by French Canadians that barely speak the language properly to begin with. If I ever went to France I'd have to struggle through a Quebecois accent tinted with English.
I studied it for 5 years and yes it is frustrating!


Why don't you consider German? I've only a basic knowledge (very basic) of German, but I've found it to be much more intuitive to the native English speaker.


German is a good choice. :nod: then theres the choice of Dutch which bridges the gap between english and German.

[scaltz]

If you want to learn a language for it's literature then I highly suggest you to learn French. It's literature started to develop during the renaissance period then after that is its pinnacle period--the 17th century. Further more, not only that it was the main diplomatic language in Europe (which results into many French scholars), it's letters seem to have a profound impact on British and American literary traditions. If you will learn it then I will suggest you to start with novellas ("nouvelles") for they are short reads so not too tedious for the non native speakers. La Vénus d'Ille by Mérimé as an example.

Other than French, Greek is quite fun. Don't get scared by the symbols, please don't, they don't bite and they are quite simple once you get used to them. Adding to that, word etymologies are always fun topics to discuss.

[ktm5124]

<<Hurricane> It's just painfully obvious I'm an American when I speak.>

Hah, this is how I feel about my Spanish. I hate that feeling. That is another reason I am attracted to dead languages - there are no native speakers to judge you!

<Niamh> Ah, thanks for the list of authors. This kind of motivates me to learn French.

<Sebas. Melmoth> I hate to say it but you sound just a little biased ;-)

<kiki> Wow! You are quite the scholar of languages. I wish I had your talents.

Thanks for the feedback everyone. I suspect I will be on the fence about this issue for a while - I have until the end of June to decide. As I have already hinted, I have little faith in my oral abilities, e.g. pronunciation and listening comprehension. When taking Spanish, I was always better at learning grammar and vocabulary than I was at speaking the language. I feel like Greek and Latin will be easier to self-study, and I want a language that I can self-study outside of class. So I am leaning towards Greek (I can learn Latin outside of the classroom), but we will see...

I like kiki's idea of watching a television series in a foreign language. Perhaps I can refine my Spanish that way. I looked up the plot of Sos mi vida - this looks interesting!

[qimissung]

It's probably better to go with the one you're leaning toward. If I try to fight my instincts, it doesn't always work out very well, I've noticed. Good luck!

[JBI]

Just my own two cents; as a studier of languages, I would say don't make this a light decision; in order to get good at anything (Besides maybe ancient Greek) you will need to go to the place that speaks the language, and be everyone's joke for a certain amount of time. Some places are more accepting; French Canada, for instance, wouldn't enjoy me speaking French, especially with my learned pseudo-rough Paris accent (all my teachers were France French speakers) and formal diction. Italians seem to be more accepting and approachable, as do Spanish people I hear. Other languages become more tricky; Russian is a difficult language, and you will need to beat yourself a bit until you can feel comfortable.


Generally though, to get anywhere you need to dedicate hours each day, and bleed for a while - it's easier with romance languages, because they are closer and in just hundreds of hours you can have pretty good conversations - as for Russian, or more distant languages, it becomes painful quickly.

Generally people who seriously study languages usually think in groups. The traditional humanist pattern is Latin, Italian French Spanish, and then German - and in between people push toward languages in between or further out, like Portuguese or Catalan, depending on interest. Generally romance languages are easily grouped, to the point where you may even need to warn yourself against their own idiosyncrasies (polluzione does not mean pollution, as its cognate does in French, but rather Wet dream) but generally, if you are going to study Spanish, you will be better equipped later to study French. If you study Russian, you will be better equipped to study Slavic languages. Generally then it is good to have a long term goal, and don't just think "which literature at the moment sounds good."

My general suggestion; work on Spanish until it is very comfortable, and you can think in it; that will let you have a foundation in another language, and will bring you to the point where you don't just struggle to make every word come out. Then go after your next one. I would ignore Ancient Greek as it is essentially useless, and so dated that there is no real use anymore. Plus it won't help you get a job.

[Wilde woman]

Lots of good advice here. I especially agree with Kiki's impressions, and with what JBI said about scholars thinking in groups.

With your Spanish background, I think the easiest new language to pick up would be Italian, which is not on your list. Its grammar is very close to Spanish's (but this is pretty much true for all the romance languages). If you have any thoughts on pursuing literature in graduate school, then I would say French is a must.

I know next to nothing about Russian, so I can't comment on that. As for ancient Greek, you would need to learn a new alphabet so I imagine it would take longer to master. And unless you're planning on pursuing advanced degrees in Classics, it will have no practical value. If you're set on learning a dead language, Latin is the most pragmatic. It can not only be of value in Classics, but also medieval and Renaissance literature.


I am attracted to Ancient Greek because there is no spoken component - in general, I am attracted to dead languages because they can be learned quite comfortably within the US.

I too came into language learning with this inferiority complex about my speaking abilities. But I learned very quickly that it's much better to learn to speak AND read/write at the same time than to simply learn for reading. I took Latin for four years in high school, and because there was no speaking component, I feel I have forgotten it, even though we got to a pretty high level (translating Virgil and some of the Roman poets). But with my Italian and French, which had both oral and speaking components (as well as reading and writing), those skills come back to me much quicker. (They also offer many more opportunities for practice...watching foreign films, reading books.) So don't write off your speaking abilities; remember, everyone is scared to speak in any beginning language class and since you some Spanish experience, you're probably better off than some of the other students.

[kiki1982]

:o Thanks everyone :o

@ Ktm: Sos mi Vida was the best soap-series I have seen ever. It is fast (problems are solved in one episode, so no The Bold and the Beautiful-drags on), it is fun, it is crazy (cross-dressing and cross-cross-dressing (people who make impressions of characters of the other sex they have played :goof:), people who stand up from the dead and everything), it is colourful and it has its contents. Sometimes it gets cheesy, but not very long. And it was bought by channels in 59 countries, not to forget).

Ok, finished on the soaps :redface:

As some have said, German is another option. I know that too :o. I studied it for a while but dropped out. It is also a great cultural language, probably comparable to French in its pool of great lit through the ages. It is pretty straighforward, everything is regulated up to the place of parts of the sentence ('you shall put your adverbial either in the middle or at the end' (imagine a German accent);)). Nearly no exceptions. The only problem with it is not the cases which there are also (4, that's alright isn't it?), but everything comes down to the sex of the word. So, you must learn the sex of the word when you learn it, otherwise your cases are wrong. But, Germans, in contrast to French and maybe Spanish, are not so judgmental when it comes to speaking their language. They will speak to you and not switch to English. The only problem is that they will not correct you on anything so you pretty much are left to yourself when trying to improve. But they compliment easily. The French get pissed off quite quickly. Though, I also agree that they have great lit and philosophy.

I once heard an English teacher with nearly perfect French say that 'French was the only language which got harder as one [got] further'. German, according to her, 'was very hard in the beginning, but only got easier'.

Though, here is another consideration for you. The more language-systems/groups you have under your belt, the easier it is to learn langauges because the more languages belong to a group you have learned. German is a good starter for the Germanic ones. Dutch is ridden with exceptions (a little French influence there, unruly), but knowing German grammar will get you a long way, also in Scandinavian languages. Then again, French is great to understand English better and to be able to get to know Italian.

And don't forget that when you learn a new alphabet, you almost go back to first grade reading-wise. Standing there trying to decipher almost The Small Prince in Russian it suddenly hit me this weekend that I was back to my early days, trying to read a book in Latin script. But it's great. Such a new world that opens (provided that you know and can understan the word) :).

[Sebas. Melmoth]

I like kiki's idea of watching a television series in a foreign language.[/i] - this looks interesting!

OMG!--you must see the French series Maigret with Bruno Crémer:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&as_q=maigret+cremer&as_epq=&as_oq=&as_eq=&num=10&lr=&as_filetype=&ft=i&as_sitesearch=&as_qdr=all&as_rights=&as_occt=any&cr=&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&safe=images

C'est exceptionnelle!