Lord of the Rings

[Sam Gamgee]

Was anyone here REALLY REALLY upset that arwen got such a huge role in FotR?

I couldn't stand it. I am really depressed about the TTT trailers - the Sam and Frodo stuff looks good but there is WAY too much of Arwen.

[Admin]

I would have preferred if they kept things as the book said - but honestly Arwen and Aragorn get married in the end and in the books up until that point there is hardly anything about their relationship.

I think it was necessary for them to have a feminine heroine, though one thing I did not like was how Liv Tyler got alot of press even though she had only a small part. It was basically because she was a more recognizable actor. I also don't think she was the right casting choice or Arwen. Liv Tyler is not that good looking - she looks like her father.

What I'm wondering is...

1. Are they going to show the ents destroying Isengard?

2. Are they going to show the ents fighting at Helms Deep?

3. Are they going to do the whole "Scouring of the Shire" bit at the end?

4. Will Sean Astin get the "best supporting actor" Oscar for the third film.

Oh, and on the topic of changing the books, I am so glad they left Tom Bombadil out. Talk about 100 unnecessary pages.

[Sam Gamgee]

I TOTALLY agree about Tom. Sometimes when I read the book to my sister I leave it out. I know that they aren't doing scouring of the shire (anyway, without the dust the shire is DOOMED). I agree Liv is ugly - why does everyone think she's cute. My biggest problem was her taking Frodo's big moment at the ford. I hope Sean Astin gets best supporting actor - he was GREAT (and as Sam is my favorite character, I was picky)

[Sam Gamgee]

I just thought of something - sean astin as best supporting actor in TTT and RotK - NO PUN INTENDED :D *groan* Sorry - I know that was pathetic, so if you don't get it don't worry- however I am really into puns right now!

[Admin]

I always thought that he should get best supporting actor for ROTK. He does an awful lot of supporting in that one.

But that aside I think there is going to be alot of opportunities for both him and Elijah to do some real dramatic acting in the third one and I hope that one of them atleast gets nominated.

[Sam Gamgee]

Well, I hope sam does - HE deserves it - and I'm glad you got the pun, even though it probably wasn't funny.

[Admin]

Not only did I get the pun, I've been using it myself ever since I saw the first movie. So you're not the only one that thinks that way. ;)

[Sam Gamgee]

GOOD!

Well, what I REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY hope they include is the hero discussion right before shelobs lair. That part has me in tears almost as much as when Sam thinks his master is really dead. But I am more hopeful since they put Shelob in the next movie that they will have time for that conversation. I also saw a picture of shelob's lair so, I think they will go maybe just up to the conversation - that would be an endingpoint parallel to the one in the first movie

[Eric, son of Chuck]

Admin, you read my mind. The Ents have been my main concern since I heard the books were being adapted to movie. Two Towers is my favourite of the series, and that's mostly because of those lovable treefolk. It's been so long since I've read it, what are the "beast" trees called? You know, the nasty ones.

[Sam Gamgee]

Huorns - and they weren't so nasty - they did save the day ya know. They just needed "treeherding" from the ents.

[Admin]

I saw a new preview today with Footage I had not yet seen (and I've seen lots of it).

The good news? Lots of ents, not just Treebeard as I feared they'd limit it too. It even looked like one of them was tearing down a brick war (Isengard).

Now I'm only curious as to Helm's Deep. Do the trees join into the fight? I read a review of the Two Towers video game and it seemed to allude to the ents not being involved in the fight - but that person may not have read the books - even though they did talk to the people who worked on the game/movie.

[Sam Gamgee]

I hope they don't fight at helms deep - that is huorn's work. I just found new pictures that I REALLY liked- I don't know where they came from but they were on the quintessential LotR website - great picture website!

[VeraStar]

Although there is supposed to be plenty of Ents, Peter Jackson said they aren't showing the scouring of the Shire at the end. That might be okay, but what about Frodo and everyone leaving Middle Earth?

[crisaor]

I practically agree with everything that's been said already (thank god they didn't leave the ents out), specially with the administrator's opinion of Liv Tyler. Also, Arwen's increased role really bothers me. I understand that they needed a female lead and blah blah blah, but i just don´t like it a bit. I fear that in the next movie, when things start to get nasty and the bad guys are about to win, Arwen will show up and save everybody (ugh).

Regarding Tom Bombadil, I think it was okay to leave that part out, since even in the book it seems like it's off-place. I read somewhere that Tom Bombadil was the first character created by Tolkien, but it consisted in self contained poems, nothing to do with the one ring story. Perhaps he included it out of sympathy for the character. I think that Gandalf says that the one ring doesn't affect him because he's apart from the natural order of things, or something like that.

Does anybody else think that they should have included the part when Galadriel speaks to everyone in the party and gives a present to each one of them? This has great relevance in the story in all of the three books in my opinion. Furthermore, I must confess (and you're probably bound to disagree with me) that i didn't quite like Cate Blanchett as Galadriel. Sure, she has a thin complexion and a smooth blonde face, but she's like... normal. I mean, Galadriel's supposed to be the best looking female in the entire middle earth, and the best they can come up with is Cate Blanchett? She's pretty, of course, but not enough. This point is probably too subjective, so don't aim your flamethrowers at me too much, please.

Finally, i agree that sam's role in the story is underestimated. Frodo appears like the heroe that saved everybody, when all he did at the end was having his hand cut. It's not like i'm trying to put Frodo down, but you gotta agree that his figure overshadows that of Sam. Also, what are your thoughts about Frodo's attitude towards Sam? I've heard many comments on this, but i'm not sure I agree with it.

[Admin]

Does anybody else think that they should have included the part when Galadriel speaks to everyone in the party and gives a present to each one of them? This has great relevance in the story in all of the three books in my opinion. Furthermore, I must confess (and you're probably bound to disagree with me) that i didn't quite like Cate Blanchett as Galadriel. Sure, she has a thin complexion and a smooth blonde face, but she's like... normal. I mean, Galadriel's supposed to be the best looking female in the entire middle earth, and the best they can come up with is Cate Blanchett? She's pretty, of course, but not enough. This point is probably too subjective, so don't aim your flamethrowers at me too much, please.


Check out the special extended edition.

I think Cate Blanchett was a perfect choice - she is stunning. Of course they didn't have makeup in middle earth so she she isn't going to look like she does in photo shoots or whatever. The only other people I think could have played that role is Uma Thurman or Jeri Ryan. Gwynneth Paltrow would have been a possibility but I don't think she has the right look.

For Arwen though, so many better choices. Too numerous to list.

[Sam Gamgee]

I think with frodo and sam - they kind of messed up the relationship in the movie. They made it like they were always best friends, drinking in the green dragon together, etc. I get the idea that of course Frodo liked Sam, but Merry was his best friend. Sam was just the servant. Sam worshiped frodo, it wasn't really a friendship, it was just adoration. I would never say that Frodo disliked Sam, but Frodo was a rich gentleman, and Sam was his untutored gardener. However, sam makes it his business to care for "Mr. Frodo" (btw: I didn't like that in the movied Sam is always just calling frodo "frodo" no "Mr." I think that makes it less touching, when for the first time Sam calls his master "frodo" in Shelob's lair.) anywayOnce, they are alone, and frodo, especially when sam tries to swim to him, and he says "of all the confounded nuisances... " that part, Frodo starts to realize just how much he needs Sam. Then through TTT "friend of Friends" and RotK, they do truly become best friends, and equals. So, anyway, that's my take on Frodo and Sam. And I LOVE sam for his devotion.


Also, I have been thinking about writing an essay on Sam as the sympathetic character in LotR. - my first point - check out the last quote in every book ;) Then, he really is the character that changes through the story - I mean everyone changes, but then they go back to their old lives - "waking up" or "falling asleep again." ONly Sam grows and changes from servant to 7-time mayor of Hobbiton.

Well, I guess you can tell I'm obscessed with sam, but hey - where would Middle Earth have been without him - Possessed by Sauron - and one poor little hobbit would be in the tortures of Barad-dur, or eaten by a demonic spider, or dead of starvation

[crazycaleb]

I think there are better choices for arwen. Although I do find Liv Tyler attractive, she just doesnt look elfish enough to me. Im not really bothered by them expanding her role, though I dont think she shouldve been the one to rescue frodo. The love story was hinted at enough by Tolkien in the books, so it seems fairly natural for them to have a few scenes in the movies. And it really isn't that big a part of the two towers movie.. just a bit of reminiscing by Aragorn.

Personally, I liked Tom Bombadil heh. It was very out of place, and naturally the first thing they should cut out to save time, but there was just something that I enjoyed about his merry, singing ways.

[Sam Gamgee]

I actually though Arwen looked beautiful in TTT. Probably because she wasn't being a "tough guy." SHe was acting more like I would envision Arwen acting. Besides the costume and makeup was better.

However, She never strikes me as the second Luthien and the most fair creature that walked Middle Earth. (I mean, if she was, middle earth was in SERIOUS trouble)



I am SOOOOOOOOOO happy - they had the conversation about being in books (but why samwise the brave. stouthearted sounds SOOOOO much better). I LOVED sam and Frodo in this movie. THe only thing that really bothered me was FARAMIR.

[crisaor]

However, She never strikes me as the second Luthien and the most fair creature that walked Middle Earth. (I mean, if she was, middle earth was in SERIOUS trouble)


LOL, you're so right. The chapter in which Beren and Luthien fight Sauron and his monsters with the help of Huan is my favorite of the Silmarillion.

[jamesting]

The book is always better. Remember, Hollywood executives are stupid. They don't read. They don't care about literature. They only care about box office receipts. The hell with Tolkien's original intent, so they think. I am just sorry that millions of audience worldwide (those who have not had the honor of reading the books) may actually think that the movie did a great job of following the books!

[crisaor]

The book is always better. Remember, Hollywood executives are stupid. They don't read. They don't care about literature. They only care about box office receipts. The hell with Tolkien's original intent, so they think. I am just sorry that millions of audience worldwide (those who have not had the honor of reading the books) may actually think that the movie did a great job of following the books!

Well, I agree that the LotR movie trilogy is not following the books as it should (I don't think they ever planned to do so), and I agree about hollywood executives ;) , but there are examples of movies which surpassed the book or which adapted the book in an excellent manner. Sleepy Hollow and the Name of the Rose are the examples that come to my mind right now.

[Sam Gamgee]

Yeah, I actually liked Emma Thompson's Sense and Sensibility better than Jane Austen's. However, that is a rare phenomenon.

I have to say though with LotR, some of the stuff is just because cinematography is SOOO different from literature. So with a few exceptions (IE: Arwen at the Fords of Bruinen) I think that many of the changes were done because you can't follow a movie the way you do a book. For example, you can't really show Sam and Frodo's relationship in the way Tolkien does, because much of it is seen in Sam's thoughts. I kind of liked the Osgiliath scene. I think it was meant to remind you of Smeagol and Deagol.

However, did anyone think that they made Sam seem really mean to Gollum (poor innocent Gollum who only tried to kill Frodo twice, besides killing his own best friend)? I thought they made it like Frodo was trying to help Gollum and Sam's harsh words ruined everything. They should have put more of Gollum winning over Smeagol (which is always happening in the book) and they also should have clarified that Sam overhears Gollum's conversations, and even once stopped Gollum from grabbing the ring from Frodo while he slept.