Reading a Shakespeare play for the first time

[neilgee]

Some years ago I saw a brilliant production of The Merchant of Venice without having read the play first and it was just magical watching the action unfold without knowing what was going to happen next.

After that I determined not to read anymore new Shakespeare plays but to try and watch them first.

Unfortunately due to a combination of my own ennui and the fact that they tend to tour the same more popular productions which I've already read this plan has not come to fruition so last week I decided I'd read something by Shakespeare that I'd not encountered before because I'm getting on now and I might die leaving some of the bard's works unread if I stick to my plans.

I chose Coriolanus and again it was brilliant to not know what was going to happen to the lead character. I didn't expect a predictable happy ending from Shakespeare [but then again you never know] and I didn't get one, but the play just kept me gripped from begining to end.

I've still got 9 plays that I havn't read or seen, but there's not alot of chance of any of them being toured in the near future so I might as well get on with reading [there's no need to spoil myself though. One can draw these pleasures out].

King John
Henry Sixth [all 3 parts]
Henry Eighth
Troilus and Cassida
Titus Andronicus
Cymberline
Pericles


That's what's left.

Any opinions as to what I should read next?

[kelby_lake]

Titus Andronicus, definitely. It's the goriest tragedy ever- I believe the death toll is 13, plus one fly.

Troilus and Cressida is a problem play; I've seen it classified as a tragedy and as a comedy. Currently reading it- it's okay.

The character with the most lines in Cymbeline is female- Imogen. She's got about 900, which is pretty impressive. Again, you've got some cross-dressing, I think.

[neilgee]

Thanx kelby. I don't know anything about Titus and Andronicus at all. I wonder if it's ever performed. I still think that's the ideal way to encounter a new Shakespeare play. That's what they were written for.

[Lokasenna]

Thanx kelby. I don't know anything about Titus and Andronicus at all. I wonder if it's ever performed. I still think that's the ideal way to encounter a new Shakespeare play. That's what they were written for.

There's an... interesting... film adaptation of it with Anthony Hopkins...

I have to say its probably my least favourite Shakespeare... out of the list, I'd go for Cymbeline... its rather underated in my opinion!

[LitNetIsGreat]

I have to say its probably my least favourite Shakespeare... out of the list, I'd go for Cymbeline... its rather underated in my opinion!

I'd probably second that, love the oft quoted song:


Fear no more the heat o' th' sun
Nor the furious winter's rages;
Though thy worldly task hast done,
Home art gone and ta'en thy wages.
Golden lads and girls all must,
As chimney-sweepers, come to dust.

Fear no more the frown o' th' great;
Thou art past the tyrant's stroke.
Care no more to clothe and eat;
To thee the reed is as the oak.
The sceptre, learning, physic, must
All follow this and come to dust.

Fear no more the lightning flash,
Nor th' all-dreaded thunder-stone;
Fear no slander, censure rash;
Thou hast finished joy and moan.
All lovers young, all lovers must
Consign to thee and come to dust.

No exorciser harm thee,
Nor no witchcraft charm thee.
Ghost unlaid forbear thee;
Nothing ill come near thee.
Quiet consummation have,
And renowned be thy grave.

[Dinkleberry2010]

Reading Shakespeare is fine, but need to keep in mind that none of his plays were meant to be read; they were to be seen--and heard.

[Veva]

Hey, talking about Shakespeare I heard that there is a new production of Hamlet with Jude Law starring in it in London... has anyone seen it yet? Is it worth paying for?

[Lokasenna]

Hey, talking about Shakespeare I heard that there is a new production of Hamlet with Jude Law starring in it in London... has anyone seen it yet? Is it worth paying for?

According to the reviews, its not as good as the David Tennant/Patrick Stewart production they had last year, and that was quite good, but hardly earth-shattering; still, if you have the opportunity to go, there must be worse ways to spend an evening!

[wessexgirl]

According to the reviews, its not as good as the David Tennant/Patrick Stewart production they had last year, and that was quite good, but hardly earth-shattering; still, if you have the opportunity to go, there must be worse ways to spend an evening!

I'm sure I've read or heard that the Beeb are recording the Tennant/Stewart Hamlet. I hope that's right, as someone who tried to get a ticket and couldn't. I've heard it was good. I don't think I'd want to see a Jude Law production, although I have heard that it's not bad. I wonder if the real skull will be used if the Beeb film it?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7749962.stm

[mal4mac]

How can you know what Shakespeare meant? Maybe he was aiming at close readers as well as groundlings? Many critics prefer reading the plays to attending performances. So do I. It slows things down so I can understand them :)

Given your list of plays, it might be time to re-read some favourites :)

I'm reading through the complete works at the moment but skipped Henry VI and VIII, which have never appealed to many (try and dig out Coleridge's review of Henry VI!) Much of these plays were written by other hands, anyway (see the RSC Complete Shakespeare for exact details of which parts & Coleridge quotes...) I started Henry VI and gave up half way through the first scene - I now rate Coleridge as a great critic!

Jane Austen rated King John higher than Hamlet, which is an example of how great authors can be bad critics. But, anyway, it's readable, so you might want to start with that.

I'm reading Troilus and Cressida at the moment, and it's funny, interesting, problematic and quite hard going. I suggest definitely reading this before going to see a version (if anyone is courageous enough to put it on). It has a good scene where Hector is hectoring Paris and Troilus about keeping hold of Helen, and his brothers argue him into accepting the (seeming) idiocy of letting Helen stay put. Shakespeare did an amazing job of making this idiocy seem reasonable(ish) to me. Something Homer failed to do. Almost convinced me. Almost. But then I realised he's being ironic (probably). Hector just becomes idiotic by accepting the 'outraged honour' arguments of his brothers.

[Lokasenna]

I'm sure I've read or heard that the Beeb are recording the Tennant/Stewart Hamlet. I hope that's right, as someone who tried to get a ticket and couldn't. I've heard it was good. I don't think I'd want to see a Jude Law production, although I have heard that it's not bad. I wonder if the real skull will be used if the Beeb film it?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7749962.stm

Oliver Ford Davies (who played Polonius to perfection - he was honestly the strongest cast member!) has confirmed they're recording it, sometime after David Tennant's Doctor Who commitments are finished - I'll certainly be buying a copy!

[kelby_lake]

I'm sure I've read or heard that the Beeb are recording the Tennant/Stewart Hamlet. I hope that's right, as someone who tried to get a ticket and couldn't. I've heard it was good. I don't think I'd want to see a Jude Law production, although I have heard that it's not bad. I wonder if the real skull will be used if the Beeb film it?


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7749962.stm

The Tennant one is being aired on Christmas Day on BBC 1, after Tennant's last Doctor Who episode.

I saw Titus Andronicus done in Japanese by a Japanese group and it was really good. They used red ribbon to mimic the blood, which worked well.
There's an ambiguous tone. There are bits which are so over the top, such as dressing up as sins and cooking heads, that they are almost farcical, but then you've got really tragic bits, such as the rape and dismemberment.
You can possibly see sketchy bits for Othello, with the cross-racial pairing and the sadistic unrepenting villain.

My least favourite play...hmm...didn't finish Coriolanus or Troilus and Cressida or Anthony and Cleopatra. Maybe they're slow starters.

[kasie]

The David Tennant Hamlet is available on DVD from www.rsc.org.uk/shoponline. It is not being released until 4 January 2010 but can be pre-ordered at a reduced rate (£14.99 instead of £19.99) at the moment. My copy is on order and I shall be indulging in a DT-fest on Christmas Day. :nod: I enjoyed the production at Stratford: DT was the most manic 'mad' Hamlet I have ever seen and Patrick Stewart was downright sinister.

[neilgee]

There's an... interesting... film adaptation of it with Anthony Hopkins...

I have to say its probably my least favourite Shakespeare... out of the list, I'd go for Cymbeline... its rather underated in my opinion!

Even the best film adaptations leave me abit cold, Lokasenna. I'm one of those cynics who can't suspend disbelief as long as there's a camera involved.

I wonder if the RSC itself might do a production. They are the only ones I know who seem to be able to make a profit no matter which play they do. It might be worth checking their listings.

[neilgee]

How can you know what Shakespeare meant? Maybe he was aiming at close readers as well as groundlings? Many critics prefer reading the plays to attending performances. So do I. It slows things down so I can understand them :)

That's an debate that can be argued successfully either way, I think. Certainly something like Hamlet is a play to be read but I've seen a production of Timon of Athens that was so brilliant it far outstripped the text.




I'm reading through the complete works at the moment but skipped Henry VI and VIII, which have never appealed to many (try and dig out Coleridge's review of Henry VI!) Much of these plays were written by other hands, anyway (see the RSC Complete Shakespeare for exact details of which parts & Coleridge quotes...) I started Henry VI and gave up half way through the first scene - I now rate Coleridge as a great critic!


I'll give that a look if I see a copy. I know Middleton's supposed to have collaborated on Timon but not much else.


I'm reading Troilus and Cressida at the moment, and it's funny, interesting, problematic and quite hard going. I suggest definitely reading this before going to see a version (if anyone is courageous enough to put it on).

That's doubtful, isn't it? I think the only hope is that the RSC itself in Stratford might put on one of these more obscure plays.

[mono]

King John
Henry Sixth [all 3 parts]
Henry Eighth
Troilus and Cassida
Titus Andronicus
Cymberline
Pericles


That's what's left.

Any opinions as to what I should read next?
Though I cringe every time I utter these words, personally, I would not call myself a huge fan of Shakespeare's historical plays, but I hold "Henry VIII" in a high regard, especially after having seen it on stage; if you feel up for a good historical play, indeed, I would recommend it.
If you want more action, then I definitely ought to promote "Titus Andronicus," as mentioned by kelby lake, a very violent, gruesome play, one of Shakespeare's earliest; "Pericles" also has plenty of good action, too. Out of all of them, nonetheless, I would recommend "Cymbeline" the strongest - an entrancing plot, a good balance of action with thoughtful scenes, and, as Lokasenna said, very underrated and neglected as one of Shakespeare's best, in my opinion.
All the luck! :D

*edit*

Hey, talking about Shakespeare I heard that there is a new production of Hamlet with Jude Law starring in it in London... has anyone seen it yet? Is it worth paying for?
I heard about this, and feel really curious about it. He played the lead role in "Hamlet" also at its annual playing in Kronborg Castle, in northern Denmark, where Shakespeare intended the play, which received great reviews; bearing this in mind, also considering his talent in acting, it would not surprise me if Jude Law gave a great performance. Somehow, however, I would like to predict that the audience will consist almost entirely of eyelash-batting women. :lol:

[mal4mac]

I think the only hope is that the RSC itself in Stratford might put on one of these more obscure plays.

Come on! Don't just think RSC. Shakespeare is universal. Google the plays and I'm sure you'll find a performance on somewhere. A quick Google and I find:

http://www.shakespeares-globe.org/theatre/annualtheatreseason/troiluscressida/

OK the season has just finished, but I only looked at the second entry. There are 300 000 more... get googling!

[weofjdlk]

Come on! Don't just think RSC. Shakespeare is universal. Google the plays and I'm sure you'll find a performance on somewhere. A quick Google and I find:

http://www.shakespeares-globe.org/theatre/annualtheatreseason/troiluscressida/

OK the season has just finished, but I only looked at the second entry. There are 300 000 more... get googling!

Come on! Don't just think RSC. Shakespeare is universal. Google the plays and I'm sure you'll find a performance on somewhere. A quick Google and I find:
___________________
Devis comparatif mutuelle sante | (http://comparatifmutuelle.org/)Comparateur mutuelles sante | (http://comparatifmutuelle.org/)Comparer comparatif mutuel (http://comparatifmutuelle.org/)

[Lokasenna]

Come on! Don't just think RSC. Shakespeare is universal. Google the plays and I'm sure you'll find a performance on somewhere. A quick Google and I find:

http://www.shakespeares-globe.org/theatre/annualtheatreseason/troiluscressida/

OK the season has just finished, but I only looked at the second entry. There are 300 000 more... get googling!

True, but the RSC is generally of the best quality... I sometimes find the Globe productions a little odd. The Lord Chamberlain's Men are probably the best touring company, and Kneehigh, when they do Shakespeare, are consistently good, if a little eccentric!

[kelby_lake]

Even the best film adaptations leave me abit cold, Lokasenna. I'm one of those cynics who can't suspend disbelief as long as there's a camera involved.

I wonder if the RSC itself might do a production. They are the only ones I know who seem to be able to make a profit no matter which play they do. It might be worth checking their listings.

The Hopkins version of Titus was just WEIRD. As I recall it, there was a small boy who sort of wandered around the action. He plays with his toy soldiers, eating Cheerios, and bam! He's in a Roman arena. I believe they nicked the idea from the BBC version of Titus.

The BBC filmed every Shakespeare play except The two Noble Kingsman as they felt it was primarily Fletcher's play. The TV versions vary in quality I think but are definitely worth watching. They're probably your best chance of seeing some of the obscurer plays.

[neilgee]

Come on! Don't just think RSC. Shakespeare is universal. Google the plays and I'm sure you'll find a performance on somewhere. A quick Google and I find:

http://www.shakespeares-globe.org/theatre/annualtheatreseason/troiluscressida/

OK the season has just finished, but I only looked at the second entry. There are 300 000 more... get googling!

Yes, I know. I'm just being lazy :banana:



The BBC filmed every Shakespeare play except The two Noble Kingsman as they felt it was primarily Fletcher's play. The TV versions vary in quality I think but are definitely worth watching. They're probably your best chance of seeing some of the obscurer plays.

I didn't include The Two Noble Kinsmen in my list because it isn't in my collected Shakespeare. I know some editors consider it part of the canon and some don't, and the particular editor of my copy didn't. I suppose it should be there really if Shakespeare did collaborate on it.

[Janine]

I heard about this, and feel really curious about it. He played the lead role in "Hamlet" also at its annual playing in Kronborg Castle, in northern Denmark, where Shakespeare intended the play, which received great reviews; bearing this in mind, also considering his talent in acting, it would not surprise me if Jude Law gave a great performance. Somehow, however, I would like to predict that the audience will consist almost entirely of eyelash-batting women. :lol:

I believe Kenneth Branagh is directing this production in London. I could be wrong but thought I heard it stated on an interview on Youtube. It might just surprise you all. I think Jude Law would make a great Hamlet and I am not a huge Jude Law fan....definitely not one of those "eyelashing batting women"...hahah...that's a good one!:lol:

[kelby_lake]

I believe Kenneth Branagh is directing this production in London. I could be wrong but thought I heard it stated on an interview on Youtube. It might just surprise you all. I think Jude Law would make a great Hamlet and I am not a huge Jude Law fan....definitely not one of those "eyelashing batting women"...hahah...that's a good one!:lol:

I think Jude Law got a mixed response from critics; I'm pretty sure they all said Tennant was better.

[xman]

I LOVED reading Two Noble Kinsmen, myself. Very funny.

If you haven't read Titus Andronicus yet you simply must.