Hamlet - Theme/Idea of Corruption in Denmark

[artfuldodger23]

Hey Everyone,

I was re-reading and analyzing the Hamlet text recently and i would like to start a discussion on the theme of corruption in Denmark. Hamlet mentions in the ever famous quote "theres something rotten in the state of Denmark" but I don't see much other references, if so what are specifically the causes of the corruption? It doesn't necessarily emphasize Claudius was a bad ruler so what could have caused it? The death of Hamlet Sr.? It also struck me.... could Hamlet be corrupt himself with the apparent fact that Denmark is rotten/corrupt? I would love to hear some insight, opinions, evidence if possible etc. from you guys!


:lol: :idea:

[jocky]

Hey Everyone,

I was re-reading and analyzing the Hamlet text recently and i would like to start a discussion on the theme of corruption in Denmark. Hamlet mentions in the ever famous quote "theres something rotten in the state of Denmark" but I don't see much other references, if so what are specifically the causes of the corruption? It doesn't necessarily emphasize Claudius was a bad ruler so what could have caused it? The death of Hamlet Sr.? It also struck me.... could Hamlet be corrupt himself with the apparent fact that Denmark is rotten/corrupt? I would love to hear some insight, opinions, evidence if possible etc. from you guys!


:lol: :idea:

Could it not refer to the idea that the old King, Hamlet's old man died of a malignant poison in his ear? The state of Denmark has been overthrown, and war, the way in which internal disputes are marginalised, is being contemplated. Young Hamlet who is clearly a spoiled Mummy's boy, is now central in a political and personal battle not of his own choosing, and the thought of heading for that ' bourne ' from which nobody returns is not particularly appealing. Hamlet sees Denmark as a ****hole compared with Wittenberg where he studied in his carefree youth. Only he is not a youth he is a middle aged man. This is outside the play but is Hamlet wishing he was Laertes? Denmark, in my opinion, is rotten but only as a reflection of Hamlets state of mind.

[Gladys]

Hamlet's idea of corruption may also include the incestuous and precipitant marriage of mother Gertrude to her brother-in-law, the duplicity of such friends as Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, and the fawning hypocrisy of Polonius and Osric.

[Janine]

I think by now I know of a many passages, which point to the corruption of the state and kingdom. Let me gather those together and post some tomorrow night. I will inspect the actual text. I have watched two full-length versions countless times, which explore these elements in the play and I have read the play now several times. This element of the play and it's background are vitally important, in my opinion, and often glazed over; so I am glad you have brought them up, artfuldodger23. Welcome also, to this forum. We discuss Shakespeare often. I hope you can participate in some of our discussion groups.

[jocky]

Hamlet's idea of corruption may also include the incestuous and precipitant marriage of mother Gertrude to her brother-in-law, the duplicity of such friends as Rosencrantz and Guildenstern, and the fawning hypocrisy of Polonius and Osric.

Gladys are you picking on me? What you are referring to is normal everyday behaviour in the western world. No ghost no classic. Polonius might have been a hypocrite but he got his comeuppance, according to Tom Stoppard Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are dead, or is it Tom Stoppard is dead and Guildenstern and Rosencrantz are not? As for incestuous relationships lets keep this within the forum. That Osric he was a right bootlicker and Gertie did not deserve the name of a ' hundred times mother '. Good night Glad :)

[artfuldodger23]

Thanks guys on your insight... and Janine... its no prob... corruption is one of the minor themes and it seems many people seem to overlook that one... just interested for more evidence cause I also think its a vital piece in the progression of the play....

[Janine]

Thanks guys on your insight... and Janine... its no prob... corruption is one of the minor themes and it seems many people seem to overlook that one... just interested for more evidence cause I also think its a vital piece in the progression of the play....

Yes, I totally agree. I am sorry I didn't get back here till now and even today I am too busy offline to post the actual text (and I believe there are many passages in Hamlet,) which points to or suggests this eminent corruption and destruction (downfall) of the kingdom. I think one could say that the life within the palace, mimics the tension building outside it's walls as well, or visa versa. Even within the last few from Fortenbras, as he is first embarking on the tragic scene within the palace walls, he makes a profound statement that this scene is befitting the battlefield, but not the within the confines of the palace. I will look the exact quotes up. I am not good at quoting off the top of my head, even though I have seen the play so often you would think I know it now word for word.

[artfuldodger23]

Yes, I totally agree. I am sorry I didn't get back here till now and even today I am too busy offline to post the actual text (and I believe there are many passages in Hamlet,) which points to or suggests this eminent corruption and destruction (downfall) of the kingdom. I think one could say that the life within the palace, mimics the tension building outside it's walls as well, or visa versa. Even within the last few from Fortenbras, as he is first embarking on the tragic scene within the palace walls, he makes a profound statement that this scene is befitting the battlefield, but not the within the confines of the palace. I will look the exact quotes up. I am not good at quoting off the top of my head, even though I have seen the play so often you would think I know it now word for word.


Yes of course... I didn't mean to seem rushy..... I understand... haha thanks for the insight

[Janine]

Yes of course... I didn't mean to seem rushy..... I understand... haha thanks for the insight

artfuldodger, No problem but wait, I have come up with something for you. I intend to go through each scene (step by step, taking it slowly). I didn't think you 'rushy' at all. I am very fascinated with all aspects of Hamlet, so it is hard for me to stay away, even though I have a ton of things I need to do. This aspect of the play, in particular, has always caught my interest; so I just looked up some text online to examine. I was actually surprised to realise, that there is so much in Scene 1 Act I which reveals this aspect of the unrest in Denmark. Here is what I have come up with. Let me know what you think?

Act 1. Scene I

In the very beginning lines, BERNARDO says to
FRANCISCO,
"For this relief much thanks: 'tis bitter cold,
And I am sick at heart."

Why is BERNADO sick at heart? Interesting and bodes something brewing
beneath the surface concerning the secutity of the kingdom. Is the recent siting of the ghost putting everyone on edge or is it the unrest now felt in the nation? I don't believe BERNADO is merely speaking
of his watch in the cold.

Then after encountering the Ghost, HORATIO announces,

"it harrows me with fear and wonder."

Following this comment HORATIO says,

"What art thou that usurp'st this time of night,
Together with that fair and warlike form
In which the majesty of buried Denmark
Did sometimes march? by heaven I charge thee, speak!"

The line I find interesting there is "In which the majesty of buried Denmark..."

Shortly after another prophetic line from HORATIO,
"In what particular thought to work I know not;
But in the gross and scope of my opinion,
This bodes some strange eruption to our state."

This last line is of particular importance and sets up the play's main themes early on, I believe.

Right after this MARCELLUS states what he has been observing,

"Good now, sit down, and tell me, he that knows,
Why this same strict and most observant watch
So nightly toils the subject of the land,
And why such daily cast of brazen cannon,
And foreign mart for implements of war;
Why such impress of shipwrights, whose sore task
Does not divide the Sunday from the week;
What might be toward, that this sweaty haste
Doth make the night joint-labourer with the day:
Who is't that can inform me?"

In reply HORATIO adds,

"That can I;
At least, the whisper goes so. Our last king,
Whose image even but now appear'd to us,
Was, as you know, by Fortinbras of Norway,
Thereto prick'd on by a most emulate pride,
Dared to the combat; in which our valiant Hamlet--
For so this side of our known world esteem'd him--
Did slay this Fortinbras; who by a seal'd compact,
Well ratified by law and heraldry,
Did forfeit, with his life, all those his lands
Which he stood seized of, to the conqueror:
Against the which, a moiety competent
Was gaged by our king; which had return'd
To the inheritance of Fortinbras,
Had he been vanquisher; as, by the same covenant,
And carriage of the article design'd,
His fell to Hamlet. Now, sir, young Fortinbras,
Of unimproved mettle hot and full,
Hath in the skirts of Norway here and there
Shark'd up a list of lawless resolutes,
For food and diet, to some enterprise
That hath a stomach in't; which is no other--
As it doth well appear unto our state--
But to recover of us, by strong hand
And terms compulsatory, those foresaid lands
So by his father lost: and this, I take it,
Is the main motive of our preparations,
The source of this our watch and the chief head
Of this post-haste and romage in the land."

A Further addition on the idea of war from BERNARDO,

"I think it be no other but e'en so:
Well may it sort that this portentous figure
Comes armed through our watch; so like the king
That was and is the question of these wars."

Then HORATIO brings up this comparison of the fall of the Roman Empire, but more important the idea of events which lead up to the fall,

"A mote it is to trouble the mind's eye.
In the most high and palmy state of Rome,
A little ere the mightiest Julius fell,
The graves stood tenantless and the sheeted dead
Did squeak and gibber in the Roman streets:
As stars with trains of fire and dews of blood,
Disasters in the sun; and the moist star
Upon whose influence Neptune's empire stands
Was sick almost to doomsday with eclipse:
And even the like precurse of fierce events,
As harbingers preceding still the fates
And prologue to the omen coming on,
Have heaven and earth together demonstrated
Unto our climatures and countrymen.--
But soft, behold! lo, where it comes again!"

This very statement is a 'harbinger' and 'omen' to what
will develop and transpire in this very play.