Is love unadulterated? And a myth?

[blazeofglory]

Love! It makes me laugh at times when I hear people are arguing for love. They liken it to divinity, purity, and puritanism.

Love is infatuation. It has to do with age factors, and with age love changes and with time it culminates and with time it evaporates.

No one loves any other person more than himself or herself.

At times love seems to be an unconditional affair but in reality it is totally conditional.

Lovers expect lots of things of the beloved and that shows there is a great amount of conditionality.

At times impulsively or momentarily people in love make big sacrifices and promises but in reality they will wake up to their real states-selfishness or self fulfillment and nothing else.

[Buh4Bee]

I'm not sure if that is a little pessimistic. Love between lovers is a beautiful thing and if they are well matched, they might fight forever. Love does change over time in any relationship. It is the idea that you are supposed to grow old with the one you love. Everyone experiences a love relationship differently, but to keep it going requires the hard work you put into it. It's like a fire (no cheese factor intended), but the flowers he brings home to me, in which I can save and later use for fuel in the flames are what make all the difference.

I agree with the previous post and completely see that side of the 'love' argument, but does it have to be so negative? Why does love have to be a double-edged sword?

Thanks for the thread starter, looks to be a good conversation.

[blazeofglory]

I'm not sure if that is a little pessimistic. Love between lovers is a beautiful thing and if they are well matched, they might fight forever. Love does change over time in any relationship. It is the idea that you are supposed to grow old with the one you love. Everyone experiences a love relationship differently, but to keep it going requires the hard work you put into it. It's like a fire (no cheese factor intended), but the flowers he brings home to me, in which I can save and later use for fuel in the flames are what make all the difference.

I agree with the previous post and completely see that side of the 'love' argument, but does it have to be so negative? Why does love have to be a double-edged sword?

Thanks for the thread starter, looks to be a good conversation.

You are right from one angle but from a different angle it is not what we generally think it is. It brings home definitely a flower. but the flower may fade over time.

Love is not what it ostensibly seems, and it changes colors with seasons. Love at early phases are things of excitement and soon it turns out sour.

The problem is when we are totally expectant we feel aggrieved when we are deserted. But when you do not expect too much from your lover you may not be tormented if you are deserted.

Love is something that goes on changing. It is something that has multiplex forms.
It is unexciting to be realistic in point of fact. We fantasize things, and observe things ostensibly and fail to see things beneath multiple veneers.

I am not going against love. But I feel in life we must not be overly attached to or infatuated with anythings.

We parasitically become entangled by the snares of love.

[Gladys]

Love is infatuation. It has to do with age factors, and with age love changes and with time it culminates and with time it evaporates.

No one loves any other person more than himself or herself.

At times love seems to be an unconditional affair but in reality it is totally conditional.

Perhaps true of romantic love, but literature does present a model of unconditional love in the characters of Prince Myshkin from Dostoevsky's The Idiot, dutiful Sonya from Crime and Punishment, the priest Brand from Ibsen's Brand, and young Hedvig from The Wild Duck, to name a few.

You may argue that these are ideals rather than reality, but I like to hope that some of us, some of the time, emulate that ideal.

[FanofdeBeauvoir]

Love is conditional. Yes.

Love and infatuation are the same. No.

Just what I think. :)

[Scheherazade]

The OP:
Love! It makes me laugh at times when I hear people are arguing for love. They liken it to divinity, purity, and puritanism.

Love is infatuation. It has to do with age factors, and with age love changes and with time it culminates and with time it evaporates.

No one loves any other person more than himself or herself.

At times love seems to be an unconditional affair but in reality it is totally conditional.

Lovers expect lots of things of the beloved and that shows there is a great amount of conditionality.

At times impulsively or momentarily people in love make big sacrifices and promises but in reality they will wake up to their real states-selfishness or self fulfillment and nothing else.

[Theunderground]

Love is subjectively felt. For some they might not be able to experience it as others describe it,and so they will criticise. You might as well criticise Vanilla ice cream.

[osho]

Love is subjectively felt. For some they might not be able to experience it as others describe it,and so they will criticise. You might as well criticise Vanilla ice cream.

This is a good analogy. In fact it is something we cannot objectify. It is totally personal, subjective and a matter of belief.

When we are in love with someone the measurement of it or the love we believe we get from the other is understood in the terms exchanged. But that the words are genuine or fake is again a different issue and maybe at times tears or the facial language can help us.

Sometimes we think somebody is loving us but in actuality she or he might have been faking or masquerading it.

[paradoxical]

blazeofglory, you have said some very profound things here. I am hesitant to respond because I feel my words are lacking, but I will try to offer my thoughts on the matter.

Love is infatuation. It has to do with age factors, and with age love changes and with time it culminates and with time it evaporates.

Unfortunately, it is transient, yet so many speak of eternal love. It is a persistent illusion.

No one loves any other person more than himself or herself.

"You can search throughout the entire universe for someone who is more deserving of your love and affection than you are yourself, and that person is not to be found anywhere. You yourself, as much as anybody in the entire universe deserve your love and affection." -- The Buddha

At times love seems to be an unconditional affair but in reality it is totally conditional. Lovers expect lots of things of the beloved and that shows there is a great amount of conditionality.

When conditions change, we are disappointed and began to lose interest. We need something else to once again prop up our ego.

Love is not what it ostensibly seems, and it changes colors with seasons. Love at early phases are things of excitement and soon it turns out sour.

Oh yes, it starts off exciting then quickly fades. Youth fades, beauty fades. The personality of a person changes. As you mentioned, human love is not some pure, eternal, divine thing. I believe this is true, even though we don't want to admit it. We crave that excitement; that thrill. Like a moth to a flame. We are attached to the good feelings and continually grasp at more good feelings. Any thing that will make us feel better.

It is unexciting to be realistic in point of fact. We fantasize things, and observe things ostensibly and fail to see things beneath multiple veneers.

I agree. It quickly becomes unexciting. Just like our work and daily lives. I believe this is the kind of suffering we are prone to in this existence. Life seems inherently unsatisfying in itself, and that includes human love.

I am not going against love. But I feel in life we must not be overly attached to or infatuated with anythings.

I am not against love, either. But if it were totally good, it would not cause pain. Love often cause tremendous pain, however, and I believe the Buddha said that our attachments to the ones we love are the main obstacles stopping us from entering upon the path of spiritual enlightenment. It is attachment and grasping at self. We want to believe we are a certain way, and our lover temporarily confirms this. We want to feel a certain way, and our lover gives us this feeling, but it is transient.

We parasitically become entangled by the snares of love.

Truer words were never spoken.

[Theunderground]

I would just add that i distinguish personally between romantic love and platonic. The former being somewhat like the OP stated. (though not quite as bad as all that.) And further so called 'self love' is in many cases an excuse for selfishness or hedonism. (though not always.)

[Scheherazade]

Just wondering... Is self-love platonic?

:smilewinkgrin:

[Buh4Bee]

Maybe, if you are your own best friend.

[tonywalt]

That's funny. My relationship with myself is not platonic, not in along time.

[Buh4Bee]

:hand::thumbs_up:thumbs_up:thumbs_up

[osho]

The love stock is selling short today and what we call love and what we experience is polar opposite. We idealize, fictionalize or romanticize it hinging on what we were told, taught. We behave notoriously when it boils down to social or personal approach to or understanding of love. It is hedonic, self fulfilling and though driven by the fire of fancy or passion or infatuation we tend to love ideally, platonically or selflessly, but at the bottom of it lies our parasitical thrust. We suck on the juice of the other drying him or her of everything. What a funny experience is love and I do not want to get entangled by the web of it. I simply understand it and do not put it on a pedestal

[JuniperWoolf]

The love stock is selling short today and what we call love and what we experience is polar opposite. We idealize, fictionalize or romanticize it hinging on what we were told, taught. We behave notoriously when it boils down to social or personal approach to or understanding of love. It is hedonic, self fulfilling and though driven by the fire of fancy or passion or infatuation we tend to love ideally, platonically or selflessly, but at the bottom of it lies our parasitical thrust. We suck on the juice of the other drying him or her of everything. What a funny experience is love and I do not want to get entangled by the web of it.

I bet you're fun at parties.

[Jack of Hearts]

The love stock is selling short today and what we call love and what we experience is polar opposite. We idealize, fictionalize or romanticize it hinging on what we were told, taught. We behave notoriously when it boils down to social or personal approach to or understanding of love. It is hedonic, self fulfilling and though driven by the fire of fancy or passion or infatuation we tend to love ideally, platonically or selflessly, but at the bottom of it lies our parasitical thrust. We suck on the juice of the other drying him or her of everything. What a funny experience is love and I do not want to get entangled by the web of it. I simply understand it and do not put it on a pedestal

The exception, not the rule.
The overflowing abundance,
not fear and scarcity.
Love.

The same puppet show every night,
pretending not to see the strings.

But some of you will get lucky
Some of you will get hurt so bad.

You'll come alive, fervently search
for whatever it is that causes it,
or the lack of whatever it is.

Every road exhausted,
all that's left is truth and it takes time.

It takes time.

[tonywalt]

The love stock is selling short today and what we call love and what we experience is polar opposite. We idealize, fictionalize or romanticize it hinging on what we were told, taught. We behave notoriously when it boils down to social or personal approach to or understanding of love. It is hedonic, self fulfilling and though driven by the fire of fancy or passion or infatuation we tend to love ideally, platonically or selflessly, but at the bottom of it lies our parasitical thrust. We suck on the juice of the other drying him or her of everything. What a funny experience is love and I do not want to get entangled by the web of it. I simply understand it and do not put it on a pedestal

(Weeping-and weirdly aroused)...you had me at "parasitical thrust", "suck the juice", and "drying him..of everything".

I want to party with you, my number is 1 345 927 2359:santasmil

[Darcy88]

I think the bias against love we see today is the product of our culture's collapsing value system. We are all competitors. Men and women compete against each other in all walks of life. Instead of being potential partners they look at each other as dolls used to satisfy sensual urges, which if held on to too long will hurt one's ability to get ahead and get rich or whatever.

If we were not so obsessed with the act of consumption and of work we would have more time to love. Loving right takes time and energy. And just because much of the English-speaking world is romantically bankrupt its no cause to indict Love in its entirety. This is merely extrapolating from our greatly deprived and heartless culture and writing off the experiences of other billions of people.

Is love perfect? No. It is not perfect because human beings are not perfect and this world is not perfect. But is it the best thing? I think its the best. I would give up my ambitions and spend less time working on my goals if I had a good woman who I could shower with attention. I am genuinely happier when I have the romantic company of a woman, even if I am not working as hard. There is more to life than work. There is love.

[cacian]

I think one has to look at the word unadultered first me think.
I find the word adult quite a chameleon in itself.
In one hand it suggests maturity then the next the word adultery suggests indifidelity.
This sentence:
''an adult committed adultery'' is fascinating in itself because who else would? a mature person a non person?
''unadultered'' as a word which means:

1.Not mixed or diluted with any different or extra elements; complete and absolute: "pure, unadulterated jealousy

How can it if the word -adultered- is there?
Just a thought or platonically speaking.

And to anwer the question yes of course unless we are suggesting we are all weak and have no self restraint.
There are millions of ways of loving and not we are not all Lord Byrons aspirers great romantics big words amorous advenurers and the sky's the limit.
Humans are different and loving can be anything but adulterous.

[blazeofglory]

In fact certain opinionated thoughts camouflage the truth of it. When I raised this issue I was less aware about the inanity of the topic at issue. In fact we human beings are always learning, and to be judgmental or conclusive about the subject like this is sheer drivel. The moment I am in love or am loved I feel there is power in it and the moment I go into conflict I see a different color of love, though it is colorless. I color it up with my pangs of anger, emotions. Love is there since without love humanity cannot flourish and it is a matter of degree. Love is not something we can delineate in words. It is something deep-rooted, something at the subconscious and does not surface all the time and if it does it is unreadable. Love is there, is ubiquitous and gets manifest through eclectic appearances. Blooming flowers and flying birds in a flock, and parental cares, jubilant youthfulness, fluttering butterflies over petals and rustling branches all are in love with their fellow beings or surroundings and we cannot comprehend their expressions without a poetic mind

[Darcy88]

In fact certain opinionated thoughts camouflage the truth of it. When I raised this issue I was less aware about the inanity of the topic at issue. In fact we human beings are always learning, and to be judgmental or conclusive about the subject like this is sheer drivel. The moment I am in love or am loved I feel there is power in it and the moment I go into conflict I see a different color of love, though it is colorless. I color it up with my pangs of anger, emotions. Love is there since without love humanity cannot flourish and it is a matter of degree. Love is not something we can delineate in words. It is something deep-rooted, something at the subconscious and does not surface all the time and if it does it is unreadable. Love is there, is ubiquitous and gets manifest through eclectic appearances. Blooming flowers and flying birds in a flock, and parental cares, jubilant youthfulness, fluttering butterflies over petals and rustling branches all are in love with their fellow beings or surroundings and we cannot comprehend their expressions without a poetic mind

Wow blazeofglory! Very well said. A poignant and profound description of love in all its glory and deficiency. You really get at the paradox of love here, at its highs and lows, positives and negatives. Love is a sweet beautiful thing. It is a flower, but its at times geranium, at other's venus fly trap.

[billl]

In fact certain opinionated thoughts camouflage the truth of it. When I raised this issue I was less aware about the inanity of the topic at issue. In fact we human beings are always learning, and to be judgmental or conclusive about the subject like this is sheer drivel. The moment I am in love or am loved I feel there is power in it and the moment I go into conflict I see a different color of love, though it is colorless. I color it up with my pangs of anger, emotions. Love is there since without love humanity cannot flourish and it is a matter of degree. Love is not something we can delineate in words. It is something deep-rooted, something at the subconscious and does not surface all the time and if it does it is unreadable. Love is there, is ubiquitous and gets manifest through eclectic appearances. Blooming flowers and flying birds in a flock, and parental cares, jubilant youthfulness, fluttering butterflies over petals and rustling branches all are in love with their fellow beings or surroundings and we cannot comprehend their expressions without a poetic mind

I often enjoy following your journeys through your topics, blazeofglory.

There's a Carl Sandburg poem in another thread that you might enjoy looking at, as it is along these lines perhaps. The thread includes a link to the whole thing, it's pretty good.

http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=70494