1984 Ending (spoilers)

[jamesbond]

How many of you were satisfied with the ending? I've just finished the book this very day and i myself love the book but i have just want to know how other people feel about the entire book. I'm talking about how satisfied you were all together with the ending or if you thought you could have done better?

[crisaor]

I loved the book, I was glad I read it, but I'm not sure I'm following you. Are you asking about the ending in particular, or the feeling one has after reading the ending and having finished the book?
The ending in itself is nice, perfectly fit for the story, and the book is great. I think that Orwell knew exactly what he was doing when he wrote it (i.e. everything he wanted to tell it's there). So, considering what the book was supposed to be, then no, I don't think it's missing anything. On the other hand, regarding what it could have been, then yes, I believe there was room for improvement, but there's no discernable way to tell, really.

[subterranean]

Yes I agree with Crisaor. The fact that Orwell end the story by telling readers that eventually Winston loves the BB is a shocking thing IMO. It'd be different if Winston thought that he loved the BB and went on living.. there's nothing special about it.

[Golding15BF]

The ending had to be as it was, because without Winston admitting that he loved Big Brother, he would have kept on being defied and his attempts at individuality and difference would all be quashed by the undeniable loyalty to Big Brother that everybody around him shared. The book would consequently ramble, and not be as shocking and gut-wrenching as it is today. I consider 1984 to be Orwell's most defining work, though not as easily accessible to readers as Animal Farm. With 1984, Orwell followed in tradition with the more subtle Brave New World, by Aldous Huxley. And Orwell also paved the way for yet another classic (at least for me), by a much more diversified author, Ray Bradbury and Fahrenheit 451. All three had excellent endings, in my opinion, and I would recommend any one of them to someone who wanted a controversial read.

[ArcherSnake]

Yes, 1984, Fahrenheit 51, and Brave New World are all awesome. But speaking of endings, I didnt understand exactly what happened in the ending of Brave New World. I would ask about it, but that would lead to spoilers...maybe I'll just go to the Brave New World forum and ask, lol.

[deezee84]

Was anybody else reminded of McMurphy's lobotomy when Winston said that he loved Big Brother? It's almost like O'brien gave him a spiritual lobotomy.

[mia]

Was anybody else reminded of McMurphy's lobotomy when Winston said that he loved Big Brother? It's almost like O'brien gave him a spiritual lobotomy.

Yes, but One Flew Over the Cuckoos nest was much sadder I felt.

[mirou]

i think that the ending is very logical one...it couldn't be any other ending because the latter refers to the reality, to what is going on nowdays...

[R3B3L]

The end is different to the conventional heroic stories and I beleive this is what made 1984 so big and popular, it was something out of the unexpected and the end where he looses his feelings for Julia and admits he loves big brother.... people could argue that this is another example of doublethink and he only said he loved big brother so he wouldn't get killed? is anyone with me here?

[The Atheist]

.... people could argue that this is another example of doublethink and he only said he loved big brother so he wouldn't get killed? is anyone with me here?

Nope.

Winston's mind has been completely destroyed and re-programmed.

Orwell could not have made that clearer.

[R3B3L]

hmm true but is this more than an assumption? Is there extract from the text itself that backups your point Atheist?

[The Atheist]

Sure.

If you haven't read Orwell's essay, Politics and the English Language, I suggest you check it out. I'd bet on it being in any Orwell anthology at a public library - in reality, it's probably his greatest work.

Orwell didn't like misdirection, he hated vagueness and self-confessedly used English as a surgeon's scalpel. (with the same precision)

The last paragraph in the book is unequivocal:


He gazed up at the enormous face. Forty years it had taken him to learn what kind of smile was hidden beneath the dark mustache. O cruel needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving beast. Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Brother.

I just can't see any way of reading that than as complete victory. Even when he was wrong, Orwell was totally convinced of his moral and intellectual opinion - that's one of the things which set him apart from most other writers.

The other thing is, it isn't a horror story without Winston being utterly destroyed, and Orwell most assuredly wanted it to be a horror story. Unlike Animal Farm, where you can almost extrapolate a happy ending - and thanks to modern [?] Russia, we can see evidence that a happy ending is a possibility - Orwell doesn't want us to see that in 1984 a happy ending is even the minutest chance, he wants us to be good and scared of the prospects of totalitarianism.

Worked!

:D

[2and2make4]

the end is extremely depressing, yes, and it tends to make people dislike the book. but honestly, i think it's the best ending that could've been. it's not some fantasy where the hero always prevails, and everyone lives happily ever after. his spirit is broken...it's what would happen. it's what does happen a lot more than people would like to think. i really believe that the ending given was incredible. not necessarily a happy one or a heart warming one to anyone but party-like freaks, but a good one nonetheless.

[EndoGlastic]

.... people could argue that this is another example of doublethink and he only said he loved big brother so he wouldn't get killed? is anyone with me here?

I am with you, i believe that this is an example, and that it is doublethink.

[The Atheist]

the end is extremely depressing, yes, and it tends to make people dislike the book. but honestly, i think it's the best ending that could've been. it's not some fantasy where the hero always prevails, and everyone lives happily ever after. his spirit is broken...it's what would happen. it's what does happen a lot more than people would like to think. i really believe that the ending given was incredible. not necessarily a happy one or a heart warming one to anyone but party-like freaks, but a good one nonetheless.

Agree entirely. It was the best way of underlining the invincibility of the Party.

[joanie]

Sure.


The other thing is, it isn't a horror story without Winston being utterly destroyed, and Orwell most assuredly wanted it to be a horror story. Unlike Animal Farm, where you can almost extrapolate a happy ending - and thanks to modern [?] Russia, we can see evidence that a happy ending is a possibility - Orwell doesn't want us to see that in 1984 a happy ending is even the minutest chance, he wants us to be good and scared of the prospects of totalitarianism.


:D

Completely agree. The point of the book was to send a warning about superpowers and totalitarian governments. If it had ended on a happy note with the prospect of a happily-ever-after for Winston, the affect wouldn't have been as great. The horror of it wouldn't have stuck with the reader as well.

[Piske41]

I just finished 1984 about 20 minutes ago and have been in shock. But the novel could never have ended any other way, really.

While in the Ministry of Love Winston had thought that the only way to truly be a martyr against the Party was to truly believe in its doctrine until the final seconds - when he figured you would finally know that it was indeed the end - before the bullet entered the back of your skull. Then one would recall all of their hatred against the Party and all real truths, and there would be no way that the Party could abolish these deviant thoughts before your life ended.

So though Winston finally completed the final step of his re-education, he failed to rebel in the only way left, as his last thoughts before death were that he finally loved Big Brother.

This is the most helpless thing in the novel of all, because it shows that the Party has complete and utter control over one's mind after all, even those waining moments when the bullet is entering one's brain.

But seriously, I've never come across such an evil villain as O'Brien. He disgusts me!

[The Atheist]

But seriously, I've never come across such an evil villain as O'Brien. He disgusts me!

He is indeed one of the great villains of all literature - and done to perfection in the film with Richard Burton taking the part.

Just my kind of guy!

[earwig74]

One thing that went through my head after I finished the book was this:

Is it possible that Winston had been through all of this before?

It's been awhile since I've read the book and I would need to go back and reread it for evidence, but Winston's life is very vague. We have the memory from his childhood and his current situation, with very little in between. Also, he is compelled to team up with O'brien, and in a dream O'brien tells him that they will meet again where there is no dark. O'brien acknowledges actually telling him this when they are in Room 101. When he goes into the Prole neighborhood, Winston is almost on auto-pilot, and everything seems to line up perfectly. He discovers the antique shop, learns the owner (who ends up turning him in) rents a room upstairs, etc. Also, Winston seems to be extremely unnerved by the destruction of the past. While he is not comfortable changing the headlines, etc., he seems particularly upset with the destruction of the old records in the incinerator.

Is it possible that Winston had been reprogrammed at some point in the past. He went about his life "loving" Big Brother, just as he did in the end of the novel. However, because of his selfishness (remember the childhood memory) and need to be viewed as an individual, he slowly regresses back into his rebellious state. Eventually, he is right back to hating the party and hating Big Brother. The cycle has begun anew.

This is where the book starts off.

Perhaps O'brien sensed the strength in Winston during their 1st meeting in Room 101 ("You already know what is in Room 101"), and made the comment that they would meet again. Perhaps, too, this is why O'brien kept a closer eye on Winston than the usual reprogrammed subjects.

I don't know, it's just a thought I figured I'd toss out there. Like I said, I'd need to go back and reread it for more solid evidence (if it even exists).

Chris

p.s. Sorry for the double plus bad spelling and grammar errors that I'm sure are throughout. I'm at work and probably shouldn't be on here, so I'm typing this on the sly. ;)

[The Atheist]

One thing that went through my head after I finished the book was this:

Is it possible that Winston had been through all of this before?

Nope.

The end of the book shows how totally the Thought Police destroy Winston's personality and brain - there is no chance whatsoever of a "re-conversion".

The things you bring up just show how complete the control and planning of the Thought Police is - they had earmarked Winston for attention long ago. The dream about O'Brien might have been subliminally implanted.


p.s. Sorry for the double plus bad spelling and grammar errors that I'm sure are throughout. I'm at work and probably shouldn't be on here, so I'm typing this on the sly. ;)

Guards! Room 101!

[NickAdams]

The ending exemplifies Big Brother's need for totality. Big Brother is not satisfied with the love and obedience of citizens; he needs it unconditionally, which is expressed quite well in Winston being killed only after he has come to realize his love. Winston is not converted or trained, the narrator tells us that the love of Big Brother is truth and Winston has been ignorant. O'brien is Winston's savior and not his conditioner.


Completely agree. The point of the book was to send a warning about superpowers and totalitarian governments. If it had ended on a happy note with the prospect of a happily-ever-after for Winston, the affect wouldn't have been as great. The horror of it wouldn't have stuck with the reader as well.

Agreed. Orwell shows, though the ending, that these powers can not be established. This is the warning. There can be no victory but Big Brothers. We can not defeat Big Brother once he has power; our power comes in prevention.

[Rizzelet]

I liked the ending a lot, I thought it was extremely satisfying in terms of the meaning of the book.
However, I enjoyed Winston and Julia's anti-climactic mini-conversation more than Winston saying he loved Big Brother. ;)

[Equality72521]

I don't think that anyone is every really satisfied, so to speak, about the ending. The ending is more of a necessity.


The ending exemplifies Big Brother's need for totality. Big Brother is not satisfied with the love and obedience of citizens; he needs it unconditionally, which is expressed quite well in Winston being killed only after he has come to realize his love.

I agree. Most readers gain satisfaction of the hero living and overcoming evil. Unfortunately, there is no hero in this story, well, not from our point of view. Big Brother becomes/is the central "hero" to the characters in 1984. They don't want you to just become one of them, they want, in my opinion, not only to scare you in to loving them, but to become a die-hard party member, supporting, as you said Nick, unconditionally.


This is the novel where the villain wins, this is a warning about the totalitarians and power-hungry governments, how out of control something can get, how power-hungry people can get. It's definately a frightening and horrifying novel to read, but also an eye opener. Man, biopower sucks


:crash: This is me...destroying Big Brother :p lol