Personal and Anonymous

[Scheherazade]

Are there any problems or dilemmas you face?

Choices and decisions to be made?

Things you would like to talk about but you would like to remain anonymous?

In this thread we can talk about them.

Please PM the issues you would like to be discussed by Sunday each week

and

I will post them here (without giving your name) every Monday.

- I will keep your identity confidential and will not share this information with anyone.

- If I receive more than one PMs in a particular week, I will pick one of them.

- In your PM, please explain the issue the way you would like it to appear in the thread (I will be quoting directly without including your name).

- Please bear in mind that you may not always like the replies or reactions you receive in the thread as people will be offering their honest opinions.

- Those of you who give advice or offer guidance, please keep in mind that even though their identity may not be revealed, these will be our friends' problems and need to be dealt with uttermost sensitively.

[Nightshade]

Will this begin this week then?

[AimusSage]

Do intergalactic wars count as actual issues that can be debated? If so, are the people that discuss the issue sufficiently aware of the mannerisms that are involved in proper galactic diplomatic relations?

[Taliesin]

Aimus, remember, we aren't allowed to discuss current politics!

[Scheherazade]

Will this begin this week then?Yes if we get any PMs by tomorrow. If not, we will start next week.
Do intergalactic wars count as actual issues that can be debated? If so, are the people that discuss the issue sufficiently aware of the mannerisms that are involved in proper galactic diplomatic relations?
Aimus, remember, we aren't allowed to discuss current politics!Well, Tal has answered your question, Aimus. No current politics, intergalactic or otherwise!

;)

[muhsin]

Good idea! Keep it up, Schenerazade.

[dramasnot6]

Nice idea,Scher.

[Niamh]

I think this is a fab idea!

[Scheherazade]

Here is first week's PM:
I find I am secretly attracted to my best friend's brother but I don't think my friend would like it.

If you have any suggestions please share them with us.

[AimusSage]

you know, the best way to find out if he is okay with it is to give your friend a Pan-galactic gargle blaster! If he survives, you can tell him about your secret attraction, and he will surely be more receptive to the idea.

Then move on to the brother and do the same.

Pan-Galactic Gargle Blaster. Perfect for all your troubles.

(you can also use regular drinks if you like, but the effect is likely to be diminished, use various settings, such as bars or restaurants or a more quiet evening on the couch. All can be very effective.)

[kilted exile]

In general I try not to date relatives of friends. I dated one of my college roommates sister for a while, it didnt work out (obviously) and things got kinda awkward afterwards.

[blazeofglory]

This is really fabulous. We all have secrets and all we want to secretly express them and this is the chance we have to cash in on.

[Niamh]

well my question is, does he like her? (assuming its a her) Maybe if the friend saw how much they liked each other, and werent doing anything about it, they might not mind so much. I mean the poster says they are secretly attracted to the brother, but what if the attraction was some what obvious to the watchful eye. I'm assuming the poster is shy and likes to keep their feeling to themselves.

[papayahed]

You could mention it to the friend and see what the friend says. If friend says "Hey that's cool" then go for it. But if the friend says "I forbid it" then you would have to decide whether you valued the friendship over the chance to date the brother and go from there.

[sprinks]

Kilted provided a bit about a relationship like that not working out, but I have one about it working out! :)
We were talking in Lit about a similar kind of situation one day. One girl's friend is dating her brother. We all thought it would be awkward for her, having her friend dating her brother, but she said that its pretty good and now she is quite good friends with her brother as the 3 are always together.

So... I hope it all works out for whoever it is :)

(I would go with papaya's idea. Try and jokingly/casually mention it, see what the reaction is.)

[Nightshade]

I havent really anything to add as never found myself in anything like that situation, just one thing though I dont see any logical reason for the friend to object really so it all confuses me. :confused:

[papayahed]

I havent really anything to add as never found myself in anything like that situation, just one thing though I dont see any logical reason for the friend to object really so it all confuses me. :confused:

It happens I had a friend that **** blocked me from dating her friend. We went to a concert one night and me and "Jack" hit it off quite well. After that she would go out of her way to not make plans with each of us togehter. I even told her I kinda dug the guy. She was on the phone with him and I asked to talk to him and she just said no, so I left it at that. And now that I'm moved away she mentioned trying to find a date for Jack. What??????

All my other friends (and myself) would have gone out of their way to match us up.

[Nightshade]

It happens I had a friend that **** blocked me from dating her friend. We went to a concert one night and me and "Jack" hit it off quite well. After that she would go out of her way to not make plans with each of us togehter. I even told her I kinda dug the guy. She was on the phone with him and I asked to talk to him and she just said no, so I left it at that. And now that I'm moved away she mentioned trying to find a date for Jack. What??????

All my other friends (and myself) would have gone out of their way to match us up
Humm I see.:nod: maybe she fancied him herself?

[Niamh]

Humm i would have thought that myself. :nod:.

[Scheherazade]

In general I try not to date relatives of friends. I dated one of my college roommates sister for a while, it didnt work out (obviously) and things got kinda awkward afterwards.I agree with Kilted as well. If things work out, it is nice and dandy but it they don't, is it worth making things awkward between yourself and your friend?

[papayahed]

Humm I see.:nod: maybe she fancied him herself?


Humm i would have thought that myself. :nod:.

They never dated and she never said "giiirrrrllll I like him too", But that could have been the case.

[Niamh]

Either that or (i know this might not sound very nice) she liked him, but didnt like you enough to see you with him? some people are just not nice.:(

[Scheherazade]

Considering the gender based double standards going on on the Forum at the moment, it makes me wonder if the reactions of both sexes would be the same.

If you are a guy, would you mind one of your friends wanting to date your brother/sister?

If you are a gal, would you mind one of your friends wanting to date your brother/sister?

[SleepyWitch]

I havent really anything to add as never found myself in anything like that situation, just one thing though I dont see any logical reason for the friend to object really so it all confuses me. :confused:

same here. the only complication I could imagine is that the poster's best friend doesn't want her brother to be hurt. as in: what if the poster dumps the brother after a while and he is heart-broken? but this could happen in any relationship,.. it doesn't really matter who the brother dates, anyone could dump him, not only the poster.



If you are a gal, would you mind one of your friends wanting to date your brother/sister?
I'm a gal and I never meddled in my younger brother's love life, as far as I'm aware. He was never interested in any of my friends, but if he had been I couldn't have cared less. I mean, he's not my baby and I've always considered him old enough to make his own decisions.

anyways, I think the poster should talk with her friend openly and find out whether she really doesn't want the poster to date her brother. seeing as we're talking about the poster's best friend, the two of them should be able to talk about this openly.

[sprinks]

Hmm... Well, if using my actual situation right now, it'd be a little weird. What with my brother only being 13 years old and my sister 2 and a bit months old.
But in imaginary la-la-land, where my siblings are closer to my age, I'd be cool with it. I think I'd prefer it, as I'm a protective person of those I love, so I'd be more at ease if I knew who my brother/sister was dating, and who my friend was dating. It'd ease the suspicion a little. I just wouldn't want to know ANY details of their relationship :lol:

I mean, even later on in life I'd be cool with it, like because in essence there is only about 2 and a half years between me/my friends and my brother, but 20 and 23 sounds a lot better than 13 and 16, I think. Big difference.

[AimusSage]

well, that depends on the guy and if my sister likes him now doesn't it? I wouldn't like some friends dating my sister, but it's not like I'll make a big deal out of it. If it's a girl wanting to date my brother I wouldn't really mind either, but again, there are some friends that I might not like to see date my brother.

When it makes them happy fine, just as long as they realize that if it doesn't work out and they come running to me, they should not expect me to pick a side, (depending on how it didn't work out of course) there is no guarantee I will pick either side over the other, ever.

It's nothing a pan galactic gargle-blaster can't solve though :D

[Scheherazade]

Are there any problems or dilemmas you face?

Choices and decisions to be made?

Things you would like to talk about but you would like to remain anonymous?

In this thread we can talk about them.

Please PM the issues you would like to be discussed by Tuesday each week

and

I will post them here (without giving your name) every Wednesday.

- I will keep your identity confidential and will not share this information with anyone.

- If I receive more than one PMs in a particular week, I will pick one of them.

- In your PM, please explain the issue the way you would like it to appear in the thread (I will be quoting directly without including your name).

- Please bear in mind that you may not always like the replies or reactions you receive in the thread as people will be offering their honest opinions.

- Those of you who give advice or offer guidance, please keep in mind that even though their identity may not be revealed, these will be our friends' problems and need to be dealt with uttermost sensitively.

This week's letter:
My stepfather hates my guts and is always screaming at me about how I should be always doing housework and how much I fail to be human (or how ugly and useless I am, you know). When he's out of work (I mean on his free day) he drinks and doesn't allow me to go on the internet or watch television. He also takes out all his rage on me when he has a bad day or something like that. I can't talk back to him or he goes insane. He screams at my mother too, he's very controlling. My mother is a very clingy person and won't let me move in with my father (or date or have any life that's not about her), she says my problems are her problems and she'll do something about it because she can't live like that. The problem is she doesn't do anything! What should I do?

If you have an issue to be discussed in this thread, please PM me!

[Virgil]

It happens I had a friend that **** blocked me from dating her friend. We went to a concert one night and me and "Jack" hit it off quite well. After that she would go out of her way to not make plans with each of us togehter. I even told her I kinda dug the guy. She was on the phone with him and I asked to talk to him and she just said no, so I left it at that. And now that I'm moved away she mentioned trying to find a date for Jack. What??????

All my other friends (and myself) would have gone out of their way to match us up.

I have no real opinion in any of this, but in reading Papaya's post I got hung up on the epleted word, the four letter ****. Now normally I can guess which word is being blocked, but here as I run through my list of four letter dirty words, none seem to fit the syntax. :D I know this is silly, but Papaya can you PM me what that word is. ;) I'm curious. :p

[sprinks]

My stepfather hates my guts and is always screaming at me about how I should be always doing housework and how much I fail to be human (or how ugly and useless I am, you know). When he's out of work (I mean on his free day) he drinks and doesn't allow me to go on the internet or watch television. He also takes out all his rage on me when he has a bad day or something like that. I can't talk back to him or he goes insane. He screams at my mother too, he's very controlling. My mother is a very clingy person and won't let me move in with my father (or date or have any life that's not about her), she says my problems are her problems and she'll do something about it because she can't live like that. The problem is she doesn't do anything! What should I do?

Honestly I can't think of much. My only thought would be to try to talk to a counsellor about it and try to get some outside interference going on, so that either you are placed with your father, or the situation is changed somehow.

[papayahed]

My stepfather hates my guts and is always screaming at me about how I should be always doing housework and how much I fail to be human (or how ugly and useless I am, you know). When he's out of work (I mean on his free day) he drinks and doesn't allow me to go on the internet or watch television. He also takes out all his rage on me when he has a bad day or something like that. I can't talk back to him or he goes insane. He screams at my mother too, he's very controlling. My mother is a very clingy person and won't let me move in with my father (or date or have any life that's not about her), she says my problems are her problems and she'll do something about it because she can't live like that. The problem is she doesn't do anything! What should I do?

Have you talked to your father about the situation? If he will let you live with him, have him try to get custody of you through the courts or try to have him talk to your Mom.

[Scheherazade]

I agree with Papaya that talking the issue with your father might be a good starting point... then maybe you can try to bring them together to find a solution to your problem.

It must be a really hard situation though.

[Shalot]

My stepfather hates my guts and is always screaming at me about how I should be always doing housework and how much I fail to be human (or how ugly and useless I am, you know). When he's out of work (I mean on his free day) he drinks and doesn't allow me to go on the internet or watch television. He also takes out all his rage on me when he has a bad day or something like that. I can't talk back to him or he goes insane. He screams at my mother too, he's very controlling. My mother is a very clingy person and won't let me move in with my father (or date or have any life that's not about her), she says my problems are her problems and she'll do something about it because she can't live like that. The problem is she doesn't do anything! What should I do?

I have never had a stepfather, so I am not sure how to approach this, but he does sound like an arse. I've also never been a parent so I am unsure why your mother is unable to resolve the situation. The only reason I can think of for why your mother doesn't do anything is because she is unable, or doesn't know what to do. From the post above, it sounds like he doesn't treat her much better, and since she is clingy, it sounds like she simply isn't able to do anything about the situation. She says that your problems are her problems - maybe she means that she does know what you're going through, but for some reason, she thinks having him around is better than the alternative.

So, it sounds like there isn't much that you can reasonably do other than wait it out and hope your mother can gather enough self-respect to kick him to the curb. Maybe you could talk to her about what she sees in him. Don't make it an accusation, just try to talk to her - ask her questions about him and how he treats her, and maybe why she loves him. Keep the focus on your mother - don't bring up the parts about how he treats you specifically. Try to find out what she gets out of her relationship with your stepfather. More information might help you deal with your relationship with him.

I know that seems like a cop out answer, but sometimes when things suck, it helps to shift the focus off of your own misery. Right now, you're thinking about your relationship with him, and your mother's inability to cope with it. Maybe you could just talk to your mother about her relationship with him. Find out how she came to meet him, and marry him, and what she saw in him, and how she views relationships.

Maybe this is one of those life-lesson situations. You go through something bad, and while you can't extricate yourself from the situation, you can at least learn something while you're in it that you can use later in life. Maybe by experiencing this, you can learn how to avoid the same fate in your own life in the future.

[papayahed]

I think Shalot hit the nail on the head.

[kiz_paws]

Here is first week's PM:


I find I am secretly attracted to my best friend's brother but I don't think my friend would like it.
If you have any suggestions please share them with us.

I had a situation where my brother gradually came to realize that my best friend was awesome and made the moves.

He never said anything to me, but it became apparent to her that he was interested. She was put in a bit of an awkward position, as she and I were like sisters, and she really did like him/respected him.

SO: She came to me, hestitantly, fearing that the whole relationship would get jeopardized over this matter. She did like him, but did not want things to change between she and I, should things not work out with my brother. She actually wanted my advice as to how to let him down easily, without hurting him. This was not easy.

The end result was that things were somewhat awkward when she'd visit at our home when he was there, but eventually it all smoothed out.

So if this story helps you, I am glad to have shared. Personally, it does get very awkward, so you need to make your moves slowly, thoughtfully, and back off if there is any sign of a problem.

Good luck! :)

As for this week's dilemma, I am on my way to the dentist and will think of my response for that one.

GREAT THREAD!! :thumbs_up

[Scheherazade]

Thanks everyone for their input!

Here is this week's issue:
My sister has always had a weight problem and has always worried about her child becoming overweight because of her experience as the "fat kid" in school. I just found out that the child is forty pounds overweight. Considering her hypersensitivity regarding this issue, should I say something and if so what should I say?

[Nightshade]

Whats 40 pounds in kgs, or stones?

[papayahed]

40 lb = 18 kg = 2.8 stone

[Scheherazade]

There are 14 lbs in one stone, no?

[sprinks]

It would kind of depend on how old the kid is. If they are already that overweight at a real young age, something probably should be done/said before it gets worse, but if they're like you know, almost at their teens or something - well then the kid would have some responisiblilty for looking after themselves too.
From the wording, the kid sounds young, so I think something should be said, otherwise yeah, it's just going to get worse and they wont be very healthy.
As for what to say... Well it depends why the kid is overweight. If its a genetic and body structure thing, it might be a bit more difficult to approach. But if it's eating and exercise habits, it might help if you talk about new healthy recipes and go for walks to a park or a zoo or something with the kid, or bike riding or something (once again, depends on age and all) - get the kid and the mother out doing exercise together and eating better.

Thats just my thoughts.

[Nightshade]

There are 14 lbs in one stone, no?
yes but I was wondering of we were talking english pounds, or american ones or are they the same ? :confused:

I know there are 7 kgs in a stone.

I suppose like sprinks says the age element comes into it as well as can the kid function, saw this thing recently about a 3 year old who was so over weight she cant walk more than 100 meters at a time.

[Scheherazade]

I know there are 7 kgs in a stone. It is 6.35 kg actually.

[Nightshade]

hey so Im lighter than I thought I was ?!
:banana:

[papayahed]

I looked it up here:

http://onlineconversion.com/

100 grams = 0.22 lb = 0.22 lb force = 0.2 lb metric = 0.267 lb troy

[pussnboots]

I would say something to the sister. These days to be 40 pounds overweight is considered obese. The child runs the risk of developing type 2 diabetes. Diabetes is not necessarily genetic.
I would try to make her understand that what happened to her growing up is now happening to her child and if she wants to prevent that then she needs to start a plan of action now. Let her know that you support her and the child 100% and that you will hep if help is needed.
Either way I would also recommend child get a full physical and blood work done.

[Scheherazade]

hey so Im lighter than I thought I was ?! :nod:

At least kilogram-wise :)

I agree with PNB that 40 lbs is a consirable excess especially for a child. Even though it might be hard to face it, it is a good idea to talk to the sister. Even if she refuses to acknowledge it initially, it might prove to be something to think over later on and start doing something afterwards.

My nephew gained a lot of weight following a family move (even though he did not have any weight problems while younger). However, when he was 15, he decided he did not want to carry on like that and started keeping an eye on what he was eating. He was not dieting as such; just refusing the second helping of the pasta or the extra slice of toast etc. And in a few months' time he lost about 30 lbs. Now he is physically active, more confident and, interestingly enough, doing better at school as well.

It is amazing how quickly and easily the younger ones can adapt.

[muhsin]

Keep the good job, shce!

Any way, have a question to ask; can I just submit my story without forwarding it to you? I kinda feel the story is not so confidential to require anonymity. xnks!

[Scheherazade]

Of course, Muhsin! Anyone can start their own threads on the issues they would like to discuss. This thread is only for those who would like to remain anonymous.

[Scheherazade]

I have been informed that:
the child is eight and lives on mcdonalds and has more toys than Wal-Mart, but usually just watches TV or plays video games.

[kiz_paws]

Well, depending on how close you are to your sister, something should be said for the good of the child (after all, she is very young). I say this because one of my sisters is approachable, and the other -- well, it would be like poking a hornet nest... :alien:

But, assuming that you can speak openly with your sister, gently voice your concerns, underlining your love and concern for the child. I am sure that your sister would know that you only want what is best for the child. But I would tread lightly, as the weight issue could be a very delicate matter.

I feel that when Love motivates us to do something, things just have a way of going smoothly in the long run.

[papayahed]

When I was that age my mom was pretty busy and I pretty much had to fend for myself, I lived on Spaghettio's and mini raviolis becuase it was easy and it tasted good. I didn't know how to cook or had guidance on what I should have been making. I don't know if that's the same issue but maybe you could get the child enrolled in cooking classes designed for kids or maybe have theme nights where you cook a meal from scratch. Show the child there is more out there then just McDonalds.

[Niamh]

No, no, no, no, no! A kid should NOT be living on macdonalds! That alone to me is child abuse. I understand that maybe the sister is very busy, and might not have as much time to cook for the child, but for someone who doesnt want their child to be taunted in school for being over weight, she is definitely going about it the wrong way. Too much fatty meats (like too much burgers) is so bad for anyone, causing anything from a fatty liver to blocked arterys.
I have seen so many obese children it maks me cry. the latest kid was walking past the entrance to departures with his parents. He couldnt even walk or bend his arms properly and was panting as he wobbled alone, he was so fat. It was disgusting. the poor child wasnt even ten i recon.

[aBIGsheep]

My stepfather hates my guts and is always screaming at me about how I should be always doing housework and how much I fail to be human (or how ugly and useless I am, you know). When he's out of work (I mean on his free day) he drinks and doesn't allow me to go on the internet or watch television. He also takes out all his rage on me when he has a bad day or something like that. I can't talk back to him or he goes insane. He screams at my mother too, he's very controlling. My mother is a very clingy person and won't let me move in with my father (or date or have any life that's not about her), she says my problems are her problems and she'll do something about it because she can't live like that. The problem is she doesn't do anything! What should I do?

Its not your stepfather's or your mother's fault. You're the change that you want to be. If you want to change a situation and have exhausted absolutely ALL of your options then leave it.

It seems pretty extreme but your stepfather should have no reason to treat you like that. Nobody should treat anyone like that. Child protective services? Consoling? Tell someone you could actually trust? I dunno. But if you're not doing anything to solve your problems then your problems will only get worse.

[Shalot]

No, no, no, no, no! A kid should NOT be living on macdonalds! That alone to me is child abuse. I understand that maybe the sister is very busy, and might not have as much time to cook for the child, but for someone who doesnt want their child to be taunted in school for being over weight, she is definitely going about it the wrong way. Too much fatty meats (like too much burgers) is so bad for anyone, causing anything from a fatty liver to blocked arterys.
I have seen so many obese children it maks me cry. the latest kid was walking past the entrance to departures with his parents. He couldnt even walk or bend his arms properly and was panting as he wobbled alone, he was so fat. It was disgusting. the poor child wasnt even ten i recon.

I thought the obesity epidemic was only here in the United States. Do you have a lot of obesity in Ireland also?

Anyway, about the mcdonald's...maybe they could switch to Subway?

[Niamh]

I thought the obesity epidemic was only here in the United States. Do you have a lot of obesity in Ireland also?

Anyway, about the mcdonald's...maybe they could switch to Subway?

Its a general problem. Mainly in the uk though but we do have it. but alot of the obese and extremely obese people i see in the airport are not from Ireland. Sadly enough most of them are actually American. And boy, have i seen some disgustingly obese people. With some i have often wondered if they had to pay for extra seats when flying because there is no WAY in hell they could fit into one seat.
Subway is just as bad.

[Shalot]

Its a general problem. Mainly in the uk though but we do have it. but alot of the obese and extremely obese people i see in the airport are not from Ireland. Sadly enough most of them are actually American. And boy, have i seen some disgustingly obese people. With some i have often wondered if they had to pay for extra seats when flying because there is no WAY in hell they could fit into one seat.
Subway is just as bad.

Something similar was happening to my niece. Our great aunt was picking her up after school and taking her to McDonalds after school everyday, and she was getting round. Her mom stepped in though and put a stop to the McDonalds trips everyday. I think Subway is just a little better. A turkey sandwich has to beat chicken nuggets and french fries.

It's crazy here - you have to make an effort to not be fat here.

[Niamh]

Thats nuts. Its starting to go that way here too. People just claim to not have the time to cook for would eat lots of take aways or fast food or ready meals. They are so bad for you. All i can say is that i'm glad i got diagnosed with IBS becasue since then i've more or less cut ALL of these things out of my diet...(well except the odd chinese!) and have lost over a stone.

[blazeofglory]

There are things, all of have funny things, bizarre ones we ordinarily refrain from sharing and until you come upon or in a very informal group with whom you can associate with. Indeed the idea of being anonymous and sharing something unsharable or doing something undoable is something mindbogglingly. That is how we unroll ourselves. But we roll up ourselves internally.

[motherhubbard]

How much is a stone? I've been working to lose some extra pounds and I’ve been reaching all of my goals so far. I’m worried about the school year starting. College has been a fattening experience for me.

We’ve been eating some take out lately. Normally we never ever eat fast food, but I’ve had to go to town every day for the past two weeks. It’s killing me! It makes me feel gross and my kids look at me like I’m a slacker that doesn’t have their best interest in mind. Some days I’m thinking more about hot cooking.

[Scheherazade]

There are 14 pounds in one stone.

Blaze> Say what? ;)

[lugdunum]

With some i have often wondered if they had to pay for extra seats when flying because there is no WAY in hell they could fit into one seat.

I worked in a theme park in the US for a while and we often had to deny access to some rides to kids (and adults) who just didn't fit in the seat. It was really sad! The most popular rides would even have a couple of wider seats (aka "fat seats") so that bigger people would be able to ride.


Papayahed
I don't know if that's the same issue but maybe you could get the child enrolled in cooking classes designed for kids or maybe have theme nights where you cook a meal from scratch. Show the child there is more out there then just McDonalds.

That's a good idea! There are plenty of cooking classes and they teach you how to come up with healthy, easy-to-make meals. And it's also a good way for your sister to spend time with her daughter.

Eating out can be an occasionaloption if you really don't have time, but nothing forbids you to choose the (most) healthy option.

And no this doesn't mean drinking diet Coke with your quarter pounder with cheese and fries ;)

Here's an interesting link:
http://www.helpguide.org/life/fast_food_nutrition.htm


Has anyone seen the movie "Supersize me"? Makes you think twice before eating lots of junk food for a while! :sick:

[Scheherazade]

This week's PM:
I have a cousin that has always been flakey. He always comes to me when he is having problems (I once had a $300 phone bill because of him). If he needs something I’ve always been there however the same cannot be said in reverse. I’m beginning to feel used. Now, I can’t just stop talking to him, I see him at family functions and want to remain friendly but how do I stop being too close and getting involved in his problems?

[SleepyWitch]

don't answer the phone when he rings you? you can still be friendly when you see him, but you'll just happen not to be at home whenever he phones.

[Annamariah]

don't answer the phone when he rings you? you can still be friendly when you see him, but you'll just happen not to be at home whenever he phones.

I think that's a good plan, but if you never answer when he calls, it might be just a little bit too obvious that you're trying to avoid him.

[pussnboots]

what if little by little you stop being there for him, then maybe he will get the hint. If not then tell him the truth rather than running away from the problem

[Virgil]

Next time he asks for money tell you don't have it.

[motherhubbard]

Learning to say no can take practice, but it’s so liberating. Family is fantastic, but sometimes we have to distance ourselves for our own good. Sometimes family will become belligerent when that distancing starts. Don’t feel guilty for saying no or for taking care of yourself. If you say I can’t afford to offer this or that then you establish boundaries that you can’t be blamed for and you model responsibility. It might help to have a back up obligation that you can use to create a little distance. If all else fails then you could start complaining about all of the problems you are experiencing especially those that your cousin had no interest in. If you complain and request help enough the cousin may make the distance for you.

[Shalot]

You don't want to be an enabler. You'll start to resent him when he won't appreciate what you do for him, and he'll start to believe that your purpose in life is to "help him. Then again, sometimes, someone just needs a boost, and then a lesson about how a boost won't always be available. Good luck.

[kiz_paws]

Hmmm, this one is a tough call as we are dealing with family here. However, I think that Shalot made some good points. I think that I'd shy away from loaning any further money, if that has been a problem. And lastly, if he isn't willing to be there for you when you need him, perhaps gently mention that support is a two-way street ...

Good luck from me too. :)

[Taliesin]

Become so violent and scary for a while that he'll be thankful enough that you stop being it and the fact that you refuse to help him with his problems will be only a minor issue.

Going berserk occasionally is always a good choice, for example. Just remember to bite your shield and attack everything in sight with your sword/axe/other weapon of choice.

[kiz_paws]

Become so violent and scary for a while that he'll be thankful enough that you stop being it and the fact that you refuse to help him with his problems will be only a minor issue.

Going berserk occasionally is always a good choice, for example. Just remember to bite your shield and attack everything in sight with your sword/axe/other weapon of choice.
OMG, I am seriously laughing my *** off! :lol:

I know that this doesn't really help the poor person involved with the problem, but a shot of humour is always good for the soul... :)

[Pensive]

I know that this doesn't really help the poor person involved with the problem, but a shot of humour is always good for the soul... :)

I have actually seen such strategies work too. :p For example there was this person's story I read somewhere whose mother was pretty much against the idea of her sister having a boyfriend and a lot of screaming/banging/hitting was expected from her side when the sister was to reveal about her boyfriend.To prevent all this, along with the cooperation of her sister, she started to feed her mother's ears that the sister was a lezbian. Now the mother for whom the idea of a lezbian for a daughter could have been a disaster became very worried especially when she showed her a picture of a sister's friend hugging her (that friend often phoned her sister for hours and hours too :p).

Now the mother decided to have a talk with her other daughter (whom she was perceiving to be a lezbian) face-to-face and when she told her there was no such thing and her sister (the girl who narrated the story) was making it all up for the name of fun the mother took the breath of happiness and felt very revealed and didn't mind much when her straight daughter told her about the boyfriend of hers....

See it works but yeah can be risky if the person involved happens to be more intelligent than the mother we are talking about here! :D

[BienvenuJDC]

Considering the gender based double standards going on on the Forum at the moment, it makes me wonder if the reactions of both sexes would be the same.

If you are a guy, would you mind one of your friends wanting to date your brother/sister?

If you are a gal, would you mind one of your friends wanting to date your brother/sister?

It depends on the character of the friend. If I thought that they would use or abuse, I would not like it. I've never had a sister though.

[Scheherazade]

It depends on the character of the friend. If I thought that they would use or abuse, I would not like it. I've never had a sister though.You would feel differently if you had, perhaps.

[Scheherazade]

*bump*

[Scheherazade]

Please keep in mind that there are real people behind these posts, with real problems. If you don't have any constructive to add to the discussion, try not to post. Thank you all.

Here is a letter from a female member:

I've a crush on this girl. She's smart, gorgeous and well-read. We talk sometimes online and in facebook but I'm too shy to speak to her in real life.
What should I do? I really like her but I'm afraid of rejection, she's so beautiful and intelligent too, more so than me and I don't think she'd like someone like me, a short, dark-skinned Germany-loving kid.
I don't even know if she feels a flicker of attractiong for me. Help!

[OrphanPip]

Well if they're already someone you talk to online, you have an in. I don't see any reason why they would reject any friendly conversation if they'll talk to you online. Start small, talking to someone can be difficult at first but it gets easier with time.

Since, this question came from a female member, I hope you're fairly confident of the orientation of this girl, otherwise that can get a little awkward.

[Scheherazade]

I think Pip makes a good point that it is important to find out her orientation and also let her know your orientation as well so that there are no misunderstandings that might hurt/upset either parties later on.

[Maximilianus]

What should I do?
What you fear the most, that is, go ask her.


I'm afraid of rejection
Me too, that's why I'm alone everyday. The fear of rejection must be fought instead of fed. Unfortunately, to our grief, most lonely beings do the latter.


she's so beautiful and intelligent too, more so than me
There's not a single definition for beauty. Therefore, there are many definitions for beauty and you surely comply with one or more of them.


and I don't think she'd like someone like me, a short, dark-skinned Germany-loving kid.
You won't know unless you find out.


I don't even know if she feels a flicker of attractiong for me. Help![/i]
As I suggested before, you'll never know unless you ask her. I think we should do what we fear the most, that is, we should find out how others feel towards us. For example you could start finding out her orientation, as Pip and Scher suggested, and then you would have something to begin with. If her orientation is the same as yours, you can find a way to move on, like trying to spend more time near her and establish a relationship. Remember that one step takes you closer to the next one.

[SleepyWitch]

You could also think about whether you'd like to be "just" friends with her if her orientation isn't the same as yours. If you do think you could be friends, that might help you cope with the possibility of rejection. I.e. if she rejects you orientation-wise ;) you could still be friends and maybe you'll be best friends someday, which would be something to work towards, wouldn't it?

[Bakiryu]

I thought this was supposed to be updated tuesdays.....

[Maximilianus]

I've been thinking that it would be nice to know if the person with the problem found a solution, be it through advice on this thread or not :)

[Scheherazade]

I've been thinking that it would be nice to know if the person with the problem found a solution, be it through advice on this thread or not :)Good idea.

I will see if they would like to share anything.

[Maximilianus]

Good idea.

I will see if they would like to share anything.

Okay Scher, thank you.

[Scheherazade]

The reply I have received:
Actually she is gay, she's bisexual.
However, I was speaking to her on facebook and she thinks that high school is not the best time for a relationship. She's going to wait since "no one in our high school is good enough". She has no idea I like her however and I'm trying to be friends. :(

[Maximilianus]

Many people who first say "not good enough" eventually change their minds. I would suggest a slow beginning, be it friendship for example, and moving on little by little, to see what happens. Hasting relationships is seldom advisable. Patience may work.

[Scheherazade]

Here's another letter:
So there are a couple people I really like...but it seems I'm totaly not important to them. and the two that act like im important are unavailable for one reason or another... One I have been with before they are 21 and never have time for me, but always have time for everyone else, and I have caught them in several lies. The next is 31 and very sucsesfull, but sometimes he will talk to me, others he completly ignores me and I'm not sure how he feels about me. The third is the most complicated he is amazing and flirts all the time, he has a girlfriend that he has left 'for me' 3 times, but we never get together and he always goes back to her its like this never ending game he plays. the last is 30 lives like 3 hours away claims to love me and want a future together, but I know he still has Fbuddies and hits on women all the time...

So do I tell them all to F off? Are they all just playing with my emotions? UGH! men are complicated. any help...

[The Comedian]

This last one, the "amazing" one -- bad news. He's playing you; he's playing his girlfriend; he's playing the other girls he's flirting with. If you value your heart, stay far away.

The middle boy, the one who "ignores" you -- I think he's your real wild card here. You have to see if he's shy or has has a self-esteem issue. Men can be very intimidated by women. Maybe he's just not sure he measures up to you. Or maybe he's an arrogant hot-head. Further research is needed.

The first boy, the liar -- stay away. This seems like he's giving you the friends routine.

[Maximilianus]

I mostly agree with Comedian's suggestions. I too believe the second guy should be more assessed. Regarding the other two, just get rid of them for good. Men like them are only capable of tarnishing the male condition, and because of them, many women believe that every man is flawed.

[Mathor]

Here's another letter:

from your description, they pretty much all suck. If someone only gives you the time of day when it's convenient for them, they're not worth you emotionally investing yourself and giving them what you're not getting back. The more you put into it and fail to recieve the thought and attention you need, the more you will end up getting hurt in the end.

Since my advice is to ditch these losers completely, what I would do is give one of them the benefit of the doubt. Tell them how you feel, what's bothering you, and why it hurts you to be treated the way you are. If the person pretty much blows you off, then you know you were right (that they are not worth your time) and can walk away. If the person makes a promise to change, perhaps they'll mean what they say and finally start treating you the way you desire them to.


EDIT: And comedian, I wouldn't say the 31 year old is the wildcard here, none of them are. I don't think the person who wrote this letter is any older than 21, so that's a 10 year age difference. The person who wrote this is putting too much attention into people that probably deserve much less time than they are being given.

[The Comedian]

from your description, they pretty much all suck. If someone only gives you the time of day when it's convenient for them, they're not worth you emotionally investing yourself and giving them what you're not getting back. The more you put into it and fail to recieve the thought and attention you need, the more you will end up getting hurt in the end.

Since my advice is to ditch these losers completely, what I would do is give one of them the benefit of the doubt. Tell them how you feel, what's bothering you, and why it hurts you to be treated the way you are. If the person pretty much blows you off, then you know you were right (that they are not worth your time) and can walk away. If the person makes a promise to change, perhaps they'll mean what they say and finally start treating you the way you desire them to.


EDIT: And comedian, I wouldn't say the 31 year old is the wildcard here, none of them are. I don't think the person who wrote this letter is any older than 21, so that's a 10 year age difference. The person who wrote this is putting too much attention into people that probably deserve much less time than they are being given.

Sage advise here. All of it.

[SleepyWitch]

I'd get rid of all three of them, like Mathor said.
But I don't think I'd bother to explain to them why you're getting rid of them. I mean, would you believe them if they promised to change?

[Mathor]

I'd get rid of all three of them, like Mathor said.
But I don't think I'd bother to explain to them why you're getting rid of them. I mean, would you believe them if they promised to change?

I presented that option, because in actuality, whoever wrote that likely wouldn't follow the advice of getting rid of all three. Most people want to hold on to things like that. It's what makes human beings pretty silly.

[SleepyWitch]

I presented that option, because in actuality, whoever wrote that likely wouldn't follow the advice of getting rid of all three. Most people want to hold on to things like that. It's what makes human beings pretty silly.

yes, I know. I'm not sure I'd be able to follow my own advice ;)

can I add that I wouldn't waste any time on the guy who sometimes talks to her and sometimes ignores her. I know this kind of guy, although in my case it was someone I wanted to be friends with, not someone I fancied. This kind of guy will make you feel like there's something wrong with you, because you can never do the right thing. If you talk to them, they'll ignore you next time. If you don't talk to them, they'll mope and feel neglected (although they probably won't admit it). Whatever you do is wrong. There's a word for this kind of guy and the word is JERK. It's nothing to do with being shy etc.

[samharris]

Think that ias a good idea, making it practical is also a easy one..

[Scheherazade]

Yes, get rid of all of them and take a break from dating for a while until you meet someone you like.

From your post it sounds like you are interested in these guys simply because they have shown some kind of interest in you and you feel the need to pick one. It does not have to be so. We don't know how you actually feel about them.

So, I think you need a clean slate and wait for someone that really matters.

[Scheherazade]

Another letter:
Here's my question.
A friend of mine, G, suddenly confessed her affection for me, telling me that's she's liked me for the last year but didn't make a move since I was attracted to another girl, K. While I was stunned at her confession, I impulsively asked her out.
Now, I'm a very shy girl, I've never even dated anyone before and I've had some issues with stalkers, harrasers and suchlike people. I really don't know how to act around others (since i usually socially isolate myself) and I obviously have no idea how to act around this girl. She's very smart and beautiful yet almost as insecure as i am and we're very good friends.
We're going to the movies on a date. Help me guys! How should I act? What should I do? I don't want to make an spectacle of myself or ruin our friendship, and while I'm still attracted to K, I'm curious to where a relationship with G may go. Advice?

[Scheherazade]

I believe you should carry on acting as friends as much as possible; just because it is a "date", it does not mean that you need to start behaving differently. Go out and have fun and, if there is chemistry between you guys, then the rest should follow naturally.

It is great that you like each other as friends so should be able to have a good time without forcing yourselves.

[papayahed]

What Scher said. Just be yourself if there's chemistry that's great but if not at least you gave it a try and go back to being friends.

[Scheherazade]

We have another letter but considering the sensitivity of the issue, I would like everyone to respond in a suitable fashion and respect the feelings of the people involved.

Thank you:
Following the death of a close family member couple of years ago, I started to think about my childhood a lot. I began to remember certain incidents that I had forgotten or to look at them differently. Now, I suspect that I might have been abused as a young child... Not by the family member who passed away but another very close one and this suspicion is really tearing me apart.

I desperately wish to get some answers but this person has always made very poor choices in life and is now leading a very unhappy life after losing everything (both emotionally and materialistically speaking). So, I am not sure what I would gain from a confrontation - apart from upsetting other family members and myself too because, I guess, this is one can of worms one can never close again.

Do you think I should still speak up and ask some questions or simply try to move on? How does one move on in a situation like this?

[JuniperWoolf]

My suggestion: see a therapist and tell them everything. It might make you feel lighter, and they can advise you better then we can on the course of action that you should take with the family member in question.

I really wouldn't keep this to yourself though. If it's already tearing you apart, then bad things could happen if you don't address it.

[SleepyWitch]

I agree with Juniper. I think here are help-lines or charities that specialize in cases like yours, where the incident happened many years ago in their childhood and they are not sure what to do.
plus, the fact that this person is very unhappy now has nothing to do with it. that does not give them the right to abuse you.

[Scheherazade]

Samaritans provide free confidential counselling over the phone. It might be a starting point.

[Annamariah]

I agree with the others, you really should talk about it to someone and not just keep it all to yourself.

[Maximilianus]

You ask if you should move on, and how to move on in your situation. I can't give exact advice, because I never suffered what you have experienced, nor am I an expert in the field of abuse. However, I humbly believe that in order to move on you have to be settled with your past, meaning that if your past is a real burden then you should shake that burden off your back in some way, to the best possible. Spending all of your life running away from painful events instead of facing them will only add to the sadness you already feel, I believe. Of course I also believe you may benefit from professional advice. I wish you the best.

By the way, the fact that other relatives may feel upset by your questions doesn't oblige you to keep your mouth shut. It's not your problem what they feel. Your only problem should be what you feel, because you were the victim, and not them. In the same way, it's not the victims' concern if abusers lead unhappy lives and lose everything. Their misery doesn't entitle them to get free from their victims' reactions against what they did, even if it happened many years ago. Abusers have to pay for what they do, somehow, because they've got it coming.

Again, my humble opinion. Best of lucks.

[JuniperWoolf]

Samaritans provide free confidential counselling over the phone. It might be a starting point.

Internet too.

http://www.metanoia.org/suicide/samaritans.htm

[Scheherazade]

I didn't know they offered assistance over the internet as well; thanks, Juniper.

I have been thinking about this and "not being sure" part must be the hardest. Unless one feels sure about it, it must be very hard to speak up.

[papayahed]

I'm actually kind of torn on this one. Is it something that has an effect on your current state of health either emotionally or physically? If not I might just try to make my own peace with it and let it go (which may include counseling). If the abuse is having a toll I would definitely seek some kind of counselling.

Then again it really depends on the type of abuse, if this person abused others and if it is still happening today.

[Scheherazade]

We have another letter but considering the sensitivity of the issue, please respect the feelings of the people involved and offer constructive replies.

Thank you:
I'm polyamorous. I am in a relationship with two men, and though they are not attracted to each other, they both love me very much, and I them. We've been together for almost 3 years now, and, for the most part, we are happy. I was with one of the guys before I met the other, so our circle of friends knows him as my "boyfriend" and the other guy as "just a friend."

The trouble is, we can't tell many people about our relationship. We've tried hinting to friends, and all reactions have been negative, so we just shut up. It's frustrating for me, as I've always been an open and honest person with my friends and family, and I feel like I'm lying every time I introduce the second guy as my "friend."

My attraction to both men is not purely sexual. I am in love with both, and they both know it. The three of us get along splendidly together; it is the secret-keeping that kills me.

My question is: if I were your daughter/sister/best friend/aunt/neice/grandmother/granddaughter/coworker...whatever...what would you think if you found this out about me? If this idea angers/upsets/disgusts you, please, be honest and descriptive, as I want badly to understand people's aversion to what has become a very happy part of my life.

[DanielBenoit]

I think the reason why most people respond negatively to polyamorous relationships is because of the common-held sterotype that they are abusive/mysoginistic/unnatural, which is complete ignorance due to the fact that I'm sure plenty of people such as the poster are in polyamorous relationships and are just happy. A lot of the negativity derives from ignorance, and just as it is difficult for homosexuals to be open about their relationships, it is difficult for polyamorouists because of negative sterotype.

Either way, I can't exactly give you any useful advice besides my own empathy. If I were a friend of yours, I would certainly not react negatively, especially since it has become a very happy part of your life, in fact I would be very happy that you have two men that love and care for you.

You know, that's one thing I don't understand towards people who are unable to tolerate those of different sexual practice or orientation, if he/she is happy with their partner(s), than why fret and have offensive comments/attitudes?

[JuniperWoolf]

I'm pretty open-minded when it comes to polygynandry. If I were your sister/friend, I'd be cool with it. As long as you're happy, then I wouldn't care.

If you told your family and friends, they'd probably get used to it. It's a gamble, though. I know kids who have told their parents that they're gay, and it caused some problems. You have to decide whether the secrecy bothers you enough to take the risk.

[Virgil]

Sounds crazy. Three years? This isn't emotional, it's perverse. And while I can see why you're having an interesting time (actually I can't), I have no idea why either of the two men would hang around. Does either of them have self respect? Do you?

[OrphanPip]

I'm pretty open-minded when it comes to polygynandry. If I were your sister/friend, I'd be cool with it. As long as you're happy, then I wouldn't care.

If you told your family and friends, they'd probably get used to it. It's a gamble, though. I know kids who have told their parents that they're gay, and it caused some problems. You have to decide whether the secrecy bothers you enough to take the risk.

As much as I think that honesty is usually best, sometimes keeping quiet about something you're sure your family won't accept is better. I have a very strained relationship with my mother, and that's pretty good considering the horror stories I've heard. There are people who end up fully ostracized by their family for being who they are. If you think a close family member won't accept something, it might be better to keep it secret.

For the person who wrote the letter, telling people anything unusual about yourself is always a risk. Although, I think being in a polyamorous relationship isn't even that unusual. Christ, there are thousands of people out there in polyamous relationships, except usually one of the members is in the dark about being in one. Anybody who has a problem with what consenting adults do in their own time, that doesn't harm anyone, need to suck it and go f' themselves.


Sounds crazy. Three years? This isn't emotional, it's perverse. And while I can see why you're having an interesting time (actually I can't), I have no idea why either of the two men would hang around. Does either of them have self respect? Do you?

Anthropologically speaking, monogamy is largely a result of sedentary lifestyles and the need for males to try and control the paternity of a woman's offspring for inheritance purposes. I can think of no reason why monogamy should be a condition of love. I would certainly agree that deception of a partner is wrong, but in something open and agreed upon, well I can see no wrong here.

[JuniperWoolf]

To..


Sounds crazy. Three years? This isn't emotional, it's perverse. And while I can see why you're having an interesting time (actually I can't), I have no idea why either of the two men would hang around. Does either of them have self respect? Do you?

I say...


Considering the sensitivity of the issue, please respect the feelings of the people involved and offer constructive replies.

[mtpspur]

I have given this some thought. For once this is a situation I have no experience with personally. (By this I mean that all perties involved are aware of each other.) I'm not sure what sort of response you are looking for. If I was a friend/relative etc. speaking for myself alone I would point out to you only one thing. Who is the weakest link in the chain here? Sooner or later someone is going to want more out the relationship and also what sort of future that will come of it. This current state of things can;t last forever much as it may seem to. Time will ring it its inevitable changes. Word to the wise is sufficient. This wont last.

[OrphanPip]

I have given this some thought. For once this is a situation I have no experience with personally. (By this I mean that all perties involved are aware of each other.) I'm not sure what sort of response you are looking for. If I was a friend/relative etc. speaking for myself alone I would point out to you only one thing. Who is the weakest link in the chain here? Sooner or later someone is going to want more out the relationship and also what sort of future that will come of it. This current state of things can;t last forever much as it may seem to. Time will ring it its inevitable changes. Word to the wise is sufficient. This wont last.

This is true of the vast majority of monogamous relationships as well, so does it really matter?

I'd also like to add that I began my post before Virgil's was posted and the, "suck it up and go f' themselves" comment wasn't meant to be directed at him as an insult.

[Virgil]

Anthropologically speaking, monogamy is largely a result of sedentary lifestyles and the need for males to try and control the paternity of a woman's offspring for inheritance purposes.

Well, that makes no sense. We have a situation here where a female is screwing around with two males. This is the very opposite of control of paternity. In the few places that bigamy is legal, it's a male who gets to have multiple females. And anthropologically speaking? I doubt these people were raised in a jungle. There's a such thing as culture shaping values.

[OrphanPip]

Well, that makes no sense. We have a situation here where a female is screwing around with two males. This is the very opposite of control of paternity. In the few places that bigamy is legal, it's a male who gets to have multiple females. And anthropologically speaking? I doubt these people were raised in a jungle. There's a such thing as culture shaping values.

Maybe I was unclear. If we look at some non-sedentary societies like the natives of Quebec immediately after European arrival. French records report the native cultures as exhibiting matrilineal inheritance with children being raised communally while polyamory was rampant. Of course, the French expressed great disgust at this lifestyle. However, it informs us about what life would be like when we take away the need to ensure that the child be the fathers when patrilineal inheritance is taken out of the equation.

In sedentary societies where polygamy is found, yes it is usually the male with multiple partners because there is patrilineal inheritance.

Inheritance is largely not a social issue today, the only reason we cling to social structures of monogamy is because of tradition. Now I think it's perfectly fine and admirable to be in a monogamous relationship. However, I just can't find a logical reason for polyamory to be wrong when it doesn't involve the power or control relations of say a polygamous cult that keeps women locked away in the home.

Sure culture shapes our values, but that doesn't mean cultural norms are inherently right. We need not look far back in history to find a time when many reprehensible actions were socially acceptable.

[Virgil]

Sure culture shapes our values, but that doesn't mean cultural norms are inherently right. We need not look far back in history to find a time when many reprehensible actions were socially acceptable.

And that doesn't mean that all cultural norms are not represhensible. In fact I would venture to say that most are normative, including this one.

[BienvenuJDC]

"My question is: if I were your daughter/sister/best friend/aunt/neice/grandmother/granddaughter/coworker...whatever...what would you think if you found this out about me? If this idea angers/upsets/disgusts you, please, be honest and descriptive, as I want badly to understand people's aversion to what has become a very happy part of my life."

I'm going to be honest with you. I think that you have a difficulty making a commitment. I would not respect your lifestyle, nor would I condone it. I think that the three of you are not being truly honest. You are getting everything that you want...both men, which is a very selfish attitude. No matter what both men say, they each want you wholly for himself. While it is true that one man can never be your all-in-all, you need to take the good with the bad. I'm not telling you what you ought to do...I'm telling you how I would react to it. Consider asking each guy if he would be pleased if you chose to be monogamous with him. You will find that each man really wants that...but it is possible that they won't be honest with you. Most people will not openly condone this lifestyle...accept for those people who also have a lifestyle that they don't want to be judged in...

[OrphanPip]

And that doesn't mean that all cultural norms are not represhensible. In fact I would venture to say that most are normative, including this one.

Without getting into some meta-ethical debate over how we come to decide what is right/acceptable/whatever.

I think it is unfair to define her experience as a girl "screwing around" with two guys. There is no way for us to say her feelings aren't equally profound for either man, and I think it is equally unfair to say these men have no self-respect.

We can't just begin rejecting unconventionality for merely being unconventional. It is simply a recipe for intolerance and the kind of social control one would expect in a fascist state. No one is being harmed in this relationship, and no one significantly involved is being deceived.

Their need for secrecy is perhaps worthy of criticism, but the polyamorous nature of the relationship itself isn't. I wouldn't be involved in one, but perhaps that's just my male dominance behavior manifesting itself.


Most people will not openly condone this lifestyle...accept for those people who also have a lifestyle that they don't want to be judged in...

Pssh, maybe some people will condone it because we're not caught up in archaic rigid social structures.

Honestly, my lifestyle isn't nearly exciting enough to require judgment from anyone. It mostly involves work, food, and sleep.

[BienvenuJDC]

Without getting into some meta-ethical debate over how we come to decide what is right/acceptable/whatever.

I think it is unfair to define her experience as a girl "screwing around" with two guys. There is no way for us to say her feelings aren't equally profound for either man, and I think it is equally unfair to say these men have no self-respect.

We can't just begin rejecting unconventionality for merely being unconventional. It is simply a recipe for intolerance and the kind of social control one would expect in a fascist state. No one is being harmed in this relationship, and no one significantly involved is being deceived.

Their need for secrecy is perhaps worthy of criticism, but the polyamorous nature of the relationship itself isn't. I wouldn't be involved in one, but perhaps that's just my male dominance behavior manifesting itself.

I believe that she asked us to be honest and descriptive. Who are YOU to judge Virgil's reaction. She wants to know people's reactions...if she didn't want to hear the truth, she wouldn't have asked the way that she asked...

[OrphanPip]

I believe that she asked us to be honest and descriptive. Who are YOU to judge Virgil's reaction. She wants to know people's reactions...if she didn't want to hear the truth, she wouldn't have asked the way that she asked...

Because this is a discussion forum, presumably Virgil accepts that his opinions are placed up for debate, just as mine are, and are open to being challenged? Who knows maybe I'll even have my opinion changed.

Edit: Or maybe the formation of a thread specifically about discussing polyamorous relations would be called for.

[DanielBenoit]

Without getting into some meta-ethical debate over how we come to decide what is right/acceptable/whatever.

I think it is unfair to define her experience as a girl "screwing around" with two guys. There is no way for us to say her feelings aren't equally profound for either man, and I think it is equally unfair to say these men have no self-respect.

We can't just begin rejecting unconventionality for merely being unconventional. It is simply a recipe for intolerance and the kind of social control one would expect in a fascist state. No one is being harmed in this relationship, and no one significantly involved is being deceived.

Their need for secrecy is perhaps worthy of criticism, but the polyamorous nature of the relationship itself isn't. I wouldn't be involved in one, but perhaps that's just my male dominance behavior manifesting itself.


Thumbs up to you. You said exactly what I was thinking.

And Bienvenu, yes everyone has expressed their true and honest opinion and each poster has a right to be heard. Orphan is merely responding to Virgil's admittingly appaulling remarks, not once does he seem to say that Virgil shouldn't have posted. He's merely responding with his own opinion, which I deeply agree with.

Ack, all of this stuff has made me real pissy. I'm going to bed.

[BienvenuJDC]

Because this is a discussion forum, presumably Virgil accepts that his opinions are placed up for debate, just as mine are, and are open to being challenged? Who knows maybe I'll even have my opinion changed.

Edit: Or maybe the formation of a thread specifically about discussing polyamorous relations would be called for.


"My question is: if I were your daughter/sister/best friend/aunt/neice/grandmother/granddaughter/coworker...whatever...what would you think if you found this out about me? If this idea angers/upsets/disgusts you, please, be honest and descriptive, as I want badly to understand people's aversion to what has become a very happy part of my life"

The subject matter is NOT whether this is right/wrong. The matter for discussion is what people's aversion is. We ought to stick to that. It seems that you are coming down on Virgil's opinions...his aversions to this situation. Maybe I am wrong but it seems that you are becoming defensive of the situation.

[OrphanPip]

The subject matter is NOT whether this is right/wrong. The matter for discussion is what people's aversion is. We ought to stick to that. It seems that you are coming down on Virgil's opinions...his aversions to this situation. Maybe I am wrong but it seems that you are becoming defensive of the situation.

Maybe I'm crazy, but the perceived morality of the relationship is clearly an issue for Virgil, thus it is clearly related to the aversion some individuals may feel towards this. Seriously, how do you expect me not to be defensive when you directly address me with accusations of being judgmental of Virgil. On top of that, you include very thinly veiled slights at people who support her decision to be polyamorous by suggesting that they have a vested interest in protecting their "lifestyles from judgment". I presume Virgil is quite willing, and able, to defend his position or he wouldn't bother to respond. I'm hardly "coming down on Virgil's opinions", as if I'm bullying him and insulting his intelligence. I wouldn't bother to articulate an argument against his opinion if I did not respect his right to have one.

[BienvenuJDC]

Maybe I'm crazy, but the perceived morality of the relationship is clearly an issue for Virgil, thus it is clearly related to the aversion some individuals may feel towards this. Seriously, how do you expect me not to be defensive when you directly address me with accusations of being judgmental of Virgil. On top of that, you include very thinly veiled slights at people who support her decision to be polyamorous by suggesting that they have a vested interest in protecting their "lifestyles from judgment". I presume Virgil is quite willing, and able, to defend his position or he wouldn't bother to respond. I'm hardly "coming down on Virgil's opinions", as if I'm bullying him and insulting his intelligence. I wouldn't bother to articulate an argument against his opinion if I did not respect his right to have one.

Ok...but I just wanted to point out that...according to what I saw here...that our purpose isn't to hash out whether it is right or wrong, but to state our opinions/feelings that this individual may be confronted with. She will no doubt be confronted with people like me, Virgil, and you. Why don't we just leave it at that?

[OrphanPip]

Fair enough, I'm willing to leave it as it is.

[mtpspur]

This is true of the vast majority of monogamous relationships as well, so does it really matter? as quoted by OrphanPip-----sorry forgot how to do the quotes.

I think it does manner. The lady asked what my adversion would be. I discarded for the purposes of this forum my PERSONAL beliefs about it which oyu may well guess and rather decided to point out the trap she and her companions are oh so slowly falling into. SOMEONE will get hurt. Might be the lady, might be one of the guys but sooner or later human nature will out and this lovely little house of cards will crumple intothe dust. Fully agree with you about monogamous relationships BUT that isn't the issue here. My adversion is simply that one person will be eventually sold short--won;t even get into the consequences of the other guy wondering who might be next on the plate or the young lady thinking maybe a third might be permissable. So it matters. Right now they just don't see it.

[JuniperWoolf]

Well, Pip has the scientific and anthropological (edit: and moral) angle of this debate pretty much cinched. I'll just say that Virgil and Bienvenu are being foolishly Eurocentric. Just because in your culture it is common to do things in a certain way doesn't mean that it is the best and only way that things should be done. I wish that you would stop being so hateful and open your mind. We were asked to help, not to condemn or ridicule.

Furthermore Virgil, it is extremely shocking to me that you are behaving so disrespectfully. Yes, your opinions were asked for; that doesn't mean that you have to be so mean. We were asked to show some sensitivity and kindness. In what way were your remarks constructive? This is someone's real life that we're talking about here.
I wonder, would you have spoken out so brazenly if this were a case of one male with multiple female partners? I sincerely doubt it. Oh, you probably would have said something judgemental and derogatory, but not so vehemently. Ugh, now I feel ill.


This is true of the vast majority of monogamous relationships as well, so does it really matter? as quoted by OrphanPip-----sorry forgot how to do the quotes.

I think it does manner. The lady asked what my adversion would be. I discarded for the purposes of this forum my PERSONAL beliefs about it which oyu may well guess and rather decided to point out the trap she and her companions are oh so slowly falling into. SOMEONE will get hurt. Might be the lady, might be one of the guys but sooner or later human nature will out and this lovely little house of cards will crumple intothe dust. Fully agree with you about monogamous relationships BUT that isn't the issue here. My adversion is simply that one person will be eventually sold short--won;t even get into the consequences of the other guy wondering who might be next on the plate or the young lady thinking maybe a third might be permissable. So it matters. Right now they just don't see it.

Pip's argument stands. There are problems in every monogamous relationship. In almost every case, one of the parties is "sold short." Someone is always hurt. So what makes a polygynandrous relationship any different/worse? Besides, she's fine with her relationship. That's not going to change. The issue is whether or not she's going to tell her family and friends, not whether or not she's going to abandon her lifestyle choice. I guess your answer would be not to let the cat out of the bag.

[papayahed]

Ok, Chances are, in the long run, this relationship won't work out but neither will half of conventional marriages.

Even though I'm pretty liberal if I was a friend/family member my first concern would be for your happiness and well being. I would question if this is truly working for you and the two guys, since you've already confirmed you're happy I would trust your judgement.

As for the family, if they're like mine there would be a lot of hand wringing, praying, and drama but eventually they will get over it. (At least that was what happened when my cousin came out) The big question is being yourself and being honest with family and friends worth the risk that some won't accept it? What's the worst that could happen?

I'm just wondering for those that have a problem with this lifestyle. What would you do if your sister/daughter/mother came to you and told you they were in this type of relationship? Seriously, what could you do? Aside from expressing your displeasure and perhaps counseling your daughter/sister don't you kind of have to accept the situation?

[zoolane]

I my opinion is if the person is this poly relationship, that all 3 happy then ok,
as person I would hope to be open minded enough, if you happy then that fine, even if I do agree with they lifestyle but it up to them as long don't try push their beliefs of they relationship on to me.

If booted was other footed and it was man in similar relationship, most men would consider a good thing and so would most friends.

[Scheherazade]

I believe that she asked us to be honest and descriptive. Who are YOU to judge Virgil's reaction. She wants to know people's reactions...if she didn't want to hear the truth, she wouldn't have asked the way that she asked...Being honest does not mean being hurtful or cruel in our posts.


~

Please do not personalise your arguments.

Posts containing personal remarks will be removed without any further notice.

~

[zoolane]

I my opinion is if the person is this poly relationship, that all 3 happy then ok,
as person I would hope to be open minded enough, if you happy then that fine, even if I do agree with they lifestyle but it up to them as long don't try push their beliefs of they relationship on to me.

If booted was other footed and it was man in similar relationship, most men would consider a good thing and so would most friends.


What I mean to said is' do not agree they lifestyle choice so I am to judge'.

[mtpspur]

Perhaps I have misunderstood what was requested. I was only speaking for myself AS IF I was a friend/family member and my first reactions tend to be of the warning nature. Whether she tells family members or not is really up to her. I am presuming she is at least 18 so as an adult it's down to her comfort levels. Way too much emphasis on the monagamy here. I still don't see what that has ANYTHING to do with my reply which if read carefully ONLY focused on the THREE members of the relationship and not on any others be they single, divorced or cousins. I really did not have any adversions to her relationship--sounded rather tame and dare I say it--banal. I have known some very interesting relationships over the years--will have to work a LOT harder then that to shock me anymore. So whether the cat stays in the bag or no is up to her. My reaction was on the quality of the cat. I could have gone for quite a bit about commitment issues but I didn;t sense any advice in that area was requested.

[Virgil]

I believe that she asked us to be honest and descriptive. Who are YOU to judge Virgil's reaction. She wants to know people's reactions...if she didn't want to hear the truth, she wouldn't have asked the way that she asked...

Thank you Bien. If people want to spit in the face of moral decorum, then they have to expect a reaction by the majority of those that feel those morals mean something. You want to do your own thing, then do it. You're free to do it. But I am free to have a judgmental opinion of that person and if I want to ostracize that person from my circle I'm free to do so. I have a right to my opinion, my free speech, and my free associations. If that person person feels slighted, then don't spit in the face of moral decorum.

I was thinking of this question today, and frankly I find it impossible to believe this has been going on for three years. I think it's all made up.

[Michael T]

I guess for the three people involved it's their own choice, and nobody, even their families or friends are in any position to put a stop to it. I’m sure they will judge them though, as we all judge each other’s actions whether we admit it or not. Personally I would imagine most people would consider the two men involved to be pretty weak-minded individuals, and the woman to be taking advantage of that fact. Having judged them so… I still say it’s their choice!

[DanielBenoit]

Being honest does not mean being hurtful or cruel in our posts.


~

Please do not personalise your arguments.

Posts containing personal remarks will be removed without any further notice.

~

.


You know what, I feel bad for the annonymous poster. To her: I truly hope everything works out well for you and that you don't let others discourage you even if they do incite "social norms" or "moral decorums". Just do whatever is in your heart. If your friends or family can't accept who you are, then too hell with them. Maybe they'll come around, maybe they won't.

About a year ago I just discovered that I had another uncle that I never knew about. Why? Because his parents rejected him because he was gay and ceased talking to him for years. He's my dad's brother and I never even knew he existed. There's moral decorum for you.

[Virgil]

.About a year ago I just discovered that I had another uncle that I never knew about. Why? Because his parents rejected him because he was gay and ceased talking to him for years. He's my dad's brother and I never even knew he existed. There's moral decorum for you.

No it's not. There's a world of difference between something fixed by biology and choosing to live in a threesome. The first is not immoral. Morality requires choice.

[Jozanny]

Anony: My take on polygamy, in whatever its forms, is mixed. If Joseph Smith had been alive today he probably would have been medicated and sent into sensitivity training as part of his sentencing. Multiple partnership is tricky. If it was two women and one man, I'd be concerned about sexism and subjugation. In your case, if I knew you I'd probably say more power to you sister; however, I'd tread lightly not so much because of what conservative posters/people might think, or liberals, but for your own well being, and the well being of your lovers. When the non-traditional really works it can be a blessing, but those fault lines can be messy. Just be careful.

[JuniperWoolf]

Thank you Bien. If people want to spit in the face of moral decorum, then they have to expect a reaction by the majority of those that feel those morals mean something. You want to do your own thing, then do it. You're free to do it. But I am free to have a judgmental opinion of that person and if I want to ostracize that person from my circle I'm free to do so. I have a right to my opinion, my free speech, and my free associations. If that person person feels slighted, then don't spit in the face of moral decorum.

I was thinking of this question today, and frankly I find it impossible to believe this has been going on for three years. I think it's all made up.

I question your morality. If it allows you to insult people on a personal level when they come to you for help and advice (despite the fact that they are harming no one), yet according to your set of values you may vehemently oppose to other people's personal lifestyle choices and force them into a situation that they're not comfortable with just so that you can feel better about yourself, then you're wrong.
{edit}

[Jozanny]

As I was waking, in semi-conscious gastronomic distress over a meal I should not have eaten so early, I heard the posts of this discussion in my head; I am not sure why, as it doesn't particularly phase me that a woman would keep two men off balance sexually. I have a story about this based on the Arthurian legends, in fact, where Guinevere is sort of a modern Cleopatra, using her sexuality as a control mechanism, very much aware that she has set two of her lovers against each other, hardly a Gnostic utopia.

I was dissatisfied with my answer, as I am not sure how I'd handle this in a social context: Do the men want it known they are the OP's partners in equal time? I still think it is somewhat delicate, as a revelation, for obvious reasons. I'd tell my best friend--maybe. In my novella revelation isn't the issue, as it is a spy thriller.

[SleepyWitch]

I wouldn't be shocked if a friend of mine was in a polyamorous relationship as long as everyone involved is happy with it. You suppose you could tell your best friend and see how they react. If they don't support you, then they're probably not your best friend. As for your other friends/ family/ acquaintances, do they really need to know?

[qimissung]

As I was waking, in semi-conscious gastronomic distress over a meal I should not have eaten so early, I heard the posts of this discussion in my head; I am not sure why, as it doesn't particularly phase me that a woman would keep two men off balance sexually. I have a story about this based on the Arthurian legends, in fact, where Guinevere is sort of a modern Cleopatra, using her sexuality as a control mechanism, very much aware that she has set two of her lovers against each other, hardly a Gnostic utopia.

I was dissatisfied with my answer, as I am not sure how I'd handle this in a social context: Do the men want it known they are the OP's partners in equal time? I still think it is somewhat delicate, as a revelation, for obvious reasons. I'd tell my best friend--maybe. In my novella revelation isn't the issue, as it is a spy thriller.

Sounds like a book I would be interested in reading. Will we get a chance too?

[Jozanny]

Sounds like a book I would be interested in reading. Will we get a chance too?

It has some tactical problems, just like my longish autobiographical piece, so I do not know if I will expire first or fix these issues before that. I have carried them with me since college, so it has been a burden.

I am not afraid of rejection. I just plow on, even though I'd like to kill my landlord for destroying my near recovery of my old pace, but I am also more cautious about selling myself short, and I want these projects to amount to the best I can make them.

If I submitted my issues to this thread I'd probably shut it down:lol:, but I think the community has done a good job with mainly pragmatic responses.

[qimissung]

Keep at it, thenJozanny :); it's all any if us can do. :p

In response to the anonymous poster, wouldn't a better question be 'how well do you think yu are going to be able to handle their various reactions?' If you think it's going to be difficult to handle any negativity, then perhaps, in this imperfect world, it might be wiser not to reveal your situation just yet. If you know them well and feel that ,after an initial fallout, they might, like papaya's family, come around, then by all means, let them know.

[1n50mn14]

Having been in an open relationship myself, I'd be pretty concerned and worried for you. These things never truly work out, and I find there is an awful lot of self denial and hurt going on in the mind of at least one partner. Jealousy, attitude clashing, attempting to share time...

Having said that, to each their own- I wouldn't look down on you or ostracize you, or judge your decisions. It's your decision to make, and so long as nobody is getting hurt, all power to you.

[Scheherazade]

Our next letter:
I am being bullied by a coworker ( slightly superior ) at work.

What I would like to know is what would you do? What should I do? DO I quit and let him win? DO I stand up to him and make him more mad and therefore more dangerous? DO I just let him think he has won and give him whatever he wants so he will leave me alone and let me get on with the job I love? I am sure I am not the only one who has had to deal with bullies, I’ve been doing it my whole life I seem to attract them which is why I am posting this anonymously I don’t need any potential internet bullies here.

[BienvenuJDC]

Document everything that you can, and seek legal suit. The threat alone taken to your (or his/her) boss, will stop it. Although there may possibly be subtle repercussions, it has to be better than what you are currently going through.

Just my spur of the moment thoughts...

[Lacra]

Document everything that you can, and seek legal suit. The threat alone taken to your (or his/her) boss, will stop it. Although there may possibly be subtle repercussions, it has to be better than what you are currently going through.

Just my spur of the moment thoughts...

My advice is identical. The legal way is better than to start a fight alone with no one to support you. You need to be cautious. Good luck!

[Maximilianus]

First of all, forget the attraction thing. Don't believe YOU attract them, because if you do then the negative feeling will stop you from defending yourself, which is what you should eventually do. Instead, think that it happened to you the same way it could have happened to anyone. Remember that abusers are always abusing more than one person. It's their way of life. It's what they are apparently good for, and they have to be stopped somehow. Do not refrain from taking defensive actions, or this individual will come to conclude he can do whatever he wants with whomever he wants. You have no obligation to put up with an uncomfortable situation. Try to find a way to prove you are being bullied. Gather all proofs you can, and present them to your boss. My humble opinion.

[Scheherazade]

Another letter:

I have a friend I've known for forever. My friend recently emailed me and asked to borrow money. She said it is for a medical procedure (it is necessary). My friend lives in another country, she moved back to her home country after being in the US for several years. She borrowed money from me a few years ago and hasn't paid me back yet. The agreement was that when she got on her feet she would pay me back, she hasn't gotten back on her feet yet. I have a feeling that she isn't trying as hard as she could but I don't know for sure. Anyways her parents have money but my friend refuses to ask them. Part of the reason my friend moved back to her home country was to spite her parents, she doesn't have a good relationship with them. I should add that my friend is a grown woman with two kids of her own (she's a single mom). If I do loan her the money I do not expect that it will be paid back anytime soon if ever. WWYD?

[Niamh]

The only thing i can think of to suggest is that if you really dont feel comfortable about loaning her the money, try to find a way to encourage her to speak with her family, resolve their issues and get it from them. If its a very important op, i'm sure her parents would want to help her regardless of any differences. She just needs to knock down the barrier. If that doesnt work i dont know what else to suggest.

[1n50mn14]

Being a good friend doesn't mean you need to lend somebody money. Being a good friend can mean encouraging her to look into other avenues that are healthier for both of you- and for your friendship- including trying to rekindle old familial ties. I wouldn't lend the money, because, while it is a friend, you have done so before, and have not been paid back... normally, with any of my friends, I take it in good faith that I will get money back- and I DO, so I feel comfortable lending to them again.

Its a toughie...

[The Comedian]

If you have the money to "lend" and understand that you'll never see it again, then, well, you might consider "loaning" her the money. If money's tight for you, I'd try talking with her about getting a medical loan, asking her parents or some similar thing.

[Maximilianus]

I think you should base your decision on the kind of reliability of your friend in other fields. Maybe it's true she can't find a way to pay you back soon. Maybe she wants to pay you back, but she just can't for the moment. Now, if she has proved herself dependable in other matters regarding your relationship with her, then you may consider to give her another hand, that is, if you think she deserves it for reasons different from money lending. Consider you are probably the only person she can ask for help. If your finances allow you, I believe you have quite a few aspects to consider.

[Jozanny]

I am going to play devil's advocate here and suggest that giving money can and does destroy bonds. Two years ago I gave my sister money because her husband wasn't working and she was hysterical and as usual big sister had to plug the hole in the windmill. We are now estranged and our personal relationship is unfortunately marred and may never heal, and she is my kid sister.

Your friend may love you, but she may see you as a mark, and I am not sure her family should not be involved in relation to her surgery. I'd decline--and that may sound brutal, but you might end up resenting her for taking advantage of you.

[Maximilianus]

What Jozanny says makes lots of sense too. I have lived a similar situation between my mom and my uncle (her only bro). As I suggested before, there are many flanks to consider before making up your mind.

[Scheherazade]

The OP:

Are there any problems or dilemmas you face?

Choices and decisions to be made?

Things you would like to talk about but you would like to remain anonymous?

In this thread we can talk about them.

Please PM the issues you would like to be discussed by Sunday each week

and

I will post them here (without giving your name) every Monday.

- I will keep your identity confidential and will not share this information with anyone.

- If I receive more than one PMs in a particular week, I will pick one of them.

- In your PM, please explain the issue the way you would like it to appear in the thread (I will be quoting directly without including your name).

- Please bear in mind that you may not always like the replies or reactions you receive in the thread as people will be offering their honest opinions.

- Those of you who give advice or offer guidance, please keep in mind that even though their identity may not be revealed, these will be our friends' problems and need to be dealt with uttermost sensitively.

[Scheherazade]

Our next letter:
For the last 15 years, I kept our family; my husband doesn't work but he didn't bother to engage in housework either. So, I decided last year to separate from him. I moved out, together with my two grown-up children. Part of me was hoping he would come round and try to make his own living. But no, it ended up by my paying his rent and backing him up financially.

At the same time, my daughter (20 years old then) married, a man 11 years older than herself and whom she knew only a couple of months, and not until one week afterward, she told me about it. She hasn't finished her education yet, and is depending on him solely. He had an own small haulage contracting firm. I had the impression that it was in reaction to our separating, trying to find some "secure harbor" for herself but she denied that. Nevertheless, I feel guilty, even though she supported my decision to separate.

Then, just a couple of weeks later, I lost my job, and finally, in May '10, moved back to my husband, mainly because I can't afford to keep two flats any longer.

It now turns out that my son-in-law is considerably in debt, with the tax office for instance, resulting in the tax office's threatening to withdraw his business license. They (my daughter and her husband) then decided to have the business running on my daughter's name, and my son-in-law as her employee. I am worried because I don't like the idea of her facing all that trouble besides having to concentrate on her school qualifications, instead of enjoying some more years of youth and light-heartedness as it should be.

But what troubles me most is the fact that he doesn't treat her very kindly and thoughtful, and I don't have the impression that they love each other very much, but I don't trust my feelings anymore.

What do you think? What would you do?

[The Atheist]

I would do nothing about the daughter. Parental interference in adult children's lives never ends well, so I would merely make it obvious that I was there to help, no matter what the issues.

One area I woulf take action is in my own marriage. You give the impression you separated because you think your husband's lazy. I would expect there to be much more to it than that - if that was the case, almost nobody would be married now!

Secondly, while you might have been ordered to pay your ex-husband's rent, you must have been able to get a re-assessment when you lost your job, so returning to the marriage for financial reasons becomes suspect as well.

If the marriage is finished, finish with it - repaired relationships never last long and I'd be looking to move out again asap.

Your problems don't seem insurmountable, but they do need some work!

Good luck!

[papayahed]

My two cents:

It has to be horrible to have to move back with your husband. Is it still possible to get out? if so set a date, tell your husband you are moving by that date and that you will no longer pay his rent/support him. That way you give him enough time to make arrangements to support himself. Then follow through (no doubt the hard part). You've already been doing it for the passed 15 years, imagine what you can do without the dead weight.

To me it seems like your daughter might be modeling your behavior. Is it possible the son in law and your husband might be similar in many ways? It sounds like your husband hasn't treated you very well either, unless there's a reason why he can't help out (but you would have mentioned that part).

[Maximilianus]

My humble view, with all due respect, is that both your husband and son-in-law seem the type of fellow that have specific uses for wives. They want a working lady to pay their bills, so they can comfortably sit to watch how life walks by in front of their eyes, and also a housewife to do the laundry and such, while they keep watching comfortably how life walks by in front of their eyes.


It has to be horrible to have to move back with your husband. Is it still possible to get out? if so set a date, tell your husband you are moving by that date and that you will no longer pay his rent/support him. That way you give him enough time to make arrangements to support himself. Then follow through (no doubt the hard part). You've already been doing it for the passed 15 years, imagine what you can do without the dead weight.
In 15 years he didn't make many arrangements to give his wife a hand. It seems unlikely that he will start making arrangements to live on his own at this stage of his life. However, as papaya says, it's a dead weight, and both you and your daughter would feel much happier by getting rid of your respective dead weights. A dead weight will never do the laundry or set the table, let alone collaborating in any way to keep the family going. They are just unfit to have a family. I wonder how come they get to have a wife in the first place. I don't want to scare you, and I don't want to sound exaggerated, but I know many cases like yours, even within my own environment, and I can tell you that dead weights bury good people alive, and once you're completely buried, you just won't pick yourself off the ground anymore. Try to get rid of the fellow before it's too late, and your daughter should do the same too. I wish that you both find a clear way through this. Best of lucks!


Is it possible the son in law and your husband might be similar in many ways? It sounds like your husband hasn't treated you very well either...
By the sounds of it, they seem identical.

[papayahed]

In 15 years he didn't make many arrangements to give his wife a hand. It seems unlikely that he will start making arrangements to live on his own at this stage of his life.


oh, no doubt. I was suggesting the time limit so the poster wouldn't feel guilty of leaving the husband out in the cold. Whether he makes arrangements or not is of no consequence it's that he was given the opportunity.

[Maximilianus]

oh, no doubt. I was suggesting the time limit so the poster wouldn't feel guilty of leaving the husband out in the cold. Whether he makes arrangements or not is of no consequence it's that he was given the opportunity.
Yea, it's fair enough to give him this chance. Though he doesn't seem to deserve it, unless he's been having some kind of psychological problem that has made him act so wrong all along these years, of which we haven't been informed. It would be the only thing that could justify his behavior, in my humble opinion.

[Scheherazade]

We have a new letter:
My uncle, my mother's brother, recently passed away. We, especially my mom, had a strong argument with him and there was no chance for reconciliation because he died so soon, and she's now feeling guilty. He died alone, after a little more than a year being detached from us. Before that, he had lived a couple of years with us. He had lost almost everything, including his house, in a big part because he spent much of his lifetime wasting money and supporting his lover and her daughters; daughters she had with her husband and from whom she never divorced. He practically got nothing at all from these women. Their main interest was his wallet. He had supported that family for more than four decades, and whenever my mother tried to make him see he was losing everything, he just got mad at her, yelling it was not her business what he did with his money and his life.

He was a good man, all in all, and he may have had many virtues, but he was the type of person you can't reason with. He thought he had it all figured, but he didn't, then became homeless, and came to live with us. After two years in our house, having frequent arguments with my mother, she finally tells him she would not keep making things easy for him so he could keep wasting his remaining scanty incomes in supporting these women, so he finally left us in much anger; anger he made an effort to hide.

He often made my mother feel that a good sister would have supported him, no matter what he had done with his life, and he even grabbed some kind of outer support by telling others that my mother had practically kicked him out of our house. He depicted my mother as the evil sister, but never told anyone about the reasons of my mother's behavior. In a way, he always appears as a victim. He always gave his version of the story, but never said that my mother didn't stand the fact that he was living with us for free, while wasting the little money he had left in these women, for whom he became a savior. Anyway, now my mother feels terribly bad because she's been the subject of much gossip, where she was made to appear as a villain.

I would like to ask what you would have done under a similar situation. Would you support a relative, keep them in your home, making life easy for them, and just stare at how they give away their meager income to other people, without trying to make them see they are acting wrong? Was it so wrong that my mother tried to make him see that he should prepare for the future, waste less and save more for the times when he could not work anymore? He was very aged by the time of his death, disabled and retired. He was living in a state of total misery, in a dirty room he was renting, and we knew he was eating too little, claiming his retirement income wasn't enough. How could his income be enough if he had the most of it devoted to a woman who wasn't even his wife, and to her daughters, who were not even his own? Would you tell such relative to get serious or would you let them do whatever they want, even if the consequences would affect you in the future? Was my mother's severity too severe? Did we act wrongly?

All opinions will be highly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[The Atheist]

No, a thousand times no!

She cannot blame herself in this situation.

Regardless of blood ties, there comes a time when we must say "Enough!" Each person must live his or her own life, and your mother could not have been in a position where she dedicates her life to her brother - she clearly has other, and more compelling responsibilities. She clearly tried, but sometimes it isn't enough to create change and we must accept that some people are flawed beyond any help.

Your mother is to be commended for trying, not chastised for failure.

I speak as one who ended up kicking my own son out. Sometimes, it's the only way.

[papayahed]

No, a thousand times no!

She cannot blame herself in this situation.

Regardless of blood ties, there comes a time when we must say "Enough!" Each person must live his or her own life, and your mother could not have been in a position where she dedicates her life to her brother - she clearly has other, and more compelling responsibilities. She clearly tried, but sometimes it isn't enough to create change and we must accept that some people are flawed beyond any help.

Your mother is to be commended for trying, not chastised for failure.

I speak as one who ended up kicking my own son out. Sometimes, it's the only way.

Agreed.

[JuniperWoolf]

Well, I've never had any dependants so I wouldn't know anything about what she should have done with her brother. I'll just talk about what I know, which is the people who are talking about your family.

A couple of really bad (and untrue) stories have gone around town about my family, especially in the 90's. It sucks. Every time you go into the grocery store, you feel like people are staring and that after you leave they're talking about you. The worst part is, they probably are. Boring people without lives try to compensate by talking about the lives of others.

Depending on the size of your town and how close your neighbourhood is, you might sometimes overhear people talking about your mom and your family. If you do, try not to freak out because that'll just start another round of gossip.

"Why did Robin punch Crystal in the face?"

"Oh, didn't you know? A couple of years ago, Robin's mom blah blah blah..."

Also, don't try to correct them because people will (seriously, trust me on this) believe the most interesting story. They don't care about what's true, they care about what gets them noticed when they're out drinking coffee with their hag friends. Trying to correct them will only bring on fake condescending pity which is infuriating.

My advice: just ignore it. After a couple of weeks (or years, depending on the severity of the rumour and how dull your town is) people will get bored and start talking about someone else.

[Scheherazade]

The OP:

Are there any problems or dilemmas you face?

Choices and decisions to be made?

Things you would like to talk about but you would like to remain anonymous?

In this thread we can talk about them.

Please PM the issues you would like to be discussed by Sunday each week

and

I will post them here (without giving your name) every Monday.

- I will keep your identity confidential and will not share this information with anyone.

- If I receive more than one PMs in a particular week, I will pick one of them.

- In your PM, please explain the issue the way you would like it to appear in the thread (I will be quoting directly without including your name).

- Please bear in mind that you may not always like the replies or reactions you receive in the thread as people will be offering their honest opinions.

- Those of you who give advice or offer guidance, please keep in mind that even though their identity may not be revealed, these will be our friends' problems and need to be dealt with uttermost sensitivity.

[Buh4Bee]

This is a very good idea and it's been around since 2008!

[Scheherazade]

This is a very good idea and it's been around since 2008!All we need is some more letters coming in to keep it going!

:)