what islam is about?

[sparklingstars]

Islam ....a great religon
a religon of truth . a religon of peace.
i know many of u peope would not agree with me.
why ... because satan has closed ur eyes ,ur minds ,ur ears , and ur hearts.

so i shall not get stop of telling u about islam.
lets see what islam is about.
who is muslim (moomin)?
the one who belive with his heart that God is one i.e Allah & prophet Muhammad (P.B.U.H) is the last messanger of Allah.
a muslim believes that Allah has no son no companion
a muslim belives about the past prophets of God like jesus and all other ones.................
the other things i shall tell in other posts inshAllah

[Jay]

Every religion has its upsides as well as downsides, be it Islam, Satanism (well, maybe not, lol), Paganism, Christianity, Witchcraft... whatever you name.
Found a site when I was working on my essay, got interested because it 'explains' the difference between Islam and islamism (it's still kinda 'exotic' religion here and people tend to err, mainly when watching the media and their generalizations)
http://www.danielpipes.org/article/954

[sparklingstars]

every religon would have upside and down side but islam has only upsides ...why?.......
because its a true religon .
a true muslim has a peaceful life. its just because he has peace in his heart ...
like other people there are also some dificulties in muslim life but he feels peace in those situation also .
any way....
in the previous post i was talking of who is muslim?
like past prophets a muslim also belives in past books as well as quran.....in fact quran and other three books including bible are sent by ALLAH to the people for their guidance. but a muslim follows quran because its a last book of Allah.
and nonody has made changes in Quran as other books have changed from their original position.

[subterranean]

Islam ....a great religon
a religon of truth . a religon of peace.
i know many of u peope would not agree with me.
why ... because satan has closed ur eyes ,ur minds ,ur ears , and ur hearts.


Get real pal!

[crisaor]

Yeah. Get your head out of the books. Preaching your alleged superiority regarding others is not a good starting point, and it certainly does not constitute an "act of peace".

[mono]

every religon would have upside and down side but islam has only upsides ...why?.......
because its a true religon .

I have no doubt, sparklingstars, that you consider Islam a true religion; and I feel very happy that you may feel so secure with your religion. Labeling your beliefs superior to another religion's, however, seems unnecessary, as any member of his/her religion would find that the most superior. If some religions exist as morally and metaphysically superior to others, I think we may not discern which, being restricted to our own human faculties, but that the fact of which religion seems superior may only have perception through a higher being (Allah, God, whoever you choose). Until you may provide empirical truth, please, I request you not to belittle others' faith without providing proof that one religion SEEMS higher than another.

[sparklingstars]

ok mono i got ur point.
lets talk in another way.
ok i shall choose one thing and i will give my points in light of my religon and u will give ur points regarding ur religon.
feel free to ask some thing about my religon .

[sparklingstars]

First point.....
i belive in one God that is Allah
now give ur point.....please donot make ur post long i need one two lines answer.

[mono]

sparklingstars, I apologize if I offended you, and I apologize, furthermore, because I will not incorporate my own religion (if I may narrow it to one) into this debate.
I study all religious texts (though I have not yet read them all!), and philosophy, and I try to remain as open-minded as possible to others' beliefs; in one word, I attempt what I have mentioned in many threads, reverence - truly a forgotten virtue.
Again, I apologize if I upset you, and I would, by no means, insult another's beliefs, but if I could obtain the same treatment in return (and for others' sakes on the forum), I would highly appreciate it.

[sparklingstars]

o.k........
you said
but if I could obtain the same treatment in return (and for others' sakes on the forum), I would highly appreciate it
i will not degrade ur religon but i am only supposed to know actually what u people belive

[rocksea]

:rolleyes: again

[Jay]

First point.....
i belive in one God that is Allah
now give ur point.....please donot make ur post long i need one two lines answer.
You asking for 'one two lines' is not a good step. It could hint some things that others could find offending. It's as if I told you 'tell me in one line why do you think Islam is the best religion in your opinion'. Leaving you maximum 2 lines could mean I don't think it's even worth mentioning or is not good enough to mention. Or it could look like you're writing an essay and are just fishing for something to use not really caring what the others have to say. See my point?

[baddad]

o.k........
you said
but if I could obtain the same treatment in return (and for others' sakes on the forum), I would highly appreciate it
i will not degrade ur religon but i am only supposed to know actually what u people belive

Everyone here has divergent beliefs.

My personal spiritual beliefs have no figurehead. My beliefs have never been compared to anyone else's beliefs. What would be the point of 'comparing' beliefs? Discussing our individual beliefs can be pleasurable and informative and perhaps for some, enlightening. That is all this forum actually has to offer, a place to share knowledge without the demand that others see through our eyes only.

Spirituality is an individual's choice and irrelevant to anyone else on the earth. If there is a 'God', I'm sure that last thing he/she would want is to have people fighting over which name is the best one to use when referring to him/her. After all, its all about peace and love my friend. And welcome to the forum Sparklingstars!!

[sparklingstars]

[QUOTE=Jay]You asking for 'one two lines' is not a good step. It could hint some things that others could find offending. It's as if I told you 'tell me in one line why do you think Islam is the best religion in your opinion'.

ok......then i shall not ask for one two lines give as much lines as u want now ok?
and the second thing u said :tell me in one line why do you think Islam is the best religion in your opinion'.
i had said before islam is best because its true religon not fake.

and badad i m not fighting nor i like to fight i am just talking and u people are
instead of answering are arguing

[Scheherazade]

Everyone believe their religion is true and not fake. Otherwise they wouldn't be following it.

PS: Could you please type in proper English and not text as it makes it harder to follow what you are saying?

[baddad]

[QUOTE=Jay]You asking for 'one two lines' is not a good step. It could hint some things that others could find offending. It's as if I told you 'tell me in one line why do you think Islam is the best religion in your opinion'.

ok......then i shall not ask for one two lines give as much lines as u want now ok?
and the second thing u said :tell me in one line why do you think Islam is the best religion in your opinion'.
i had said before islam is best because its true religon not fake.

and badad i m not fighting nor i like to fight i am just talking and u people are
instead of answering are arguing

IIIIIEEEEEE!!! Sorry Sparklingstars. I did not mean to argue only to explain. Many people on this forum enjoy an open discussion concerning religious beliefs, myself included. Sometimes misinterpretation of intent occurs when we communicate with these short little messages, and sometimes the 'tone' of a message' can be easily misunderstood in the same manner. For instance, I feel a little 'anger' in your messages, but this may not be the case at all, but only my interpretation. With text messaging, it happens. But believe there is no ill will intended here. So....let us continue.....

[Jay]

I didn't notice anyone arguing. We're talking as well, you know. If people disagree with you it doesn't mean they're arguing or fighting.

[rocksea]

Richard Bach, in one of his books (I think it is 'One') says "to agree to disagree" is the basis of marriage.. I think this would apply to religions too.

[rocksea]

Anyways there are around 4000 religions/faith groups in this world..
To say one's own religion is the best and caters to every needs
is pretty foolishness.
One aspect I have come across in this religious fanaticism is that
people in most of the islamic nations seldom come face to face
or share everyday life with people of other religions. If you
understand other religions and know that those religions
provide solace to people who believe in them, you won't say anything
like this.
[Reply not to Jay but to the first post :D]

[sparklingstars]

..mmm...
people may be you would have felt anger in my messages ...but i was not supposed to show any anger....
i only want to share and to know something about your religons.

[subterranean]

You know Sparkling Star, you didn't created this thread to start a discussion, but your intention is preaching. So you came to the wrong forum. If you wanna posts all those things you posted before, post them in an Islamic forum or something like that.

You're not open minded enough for us members here. One thing that you need to learn first is that truth regarding religious aspect is a subjective thing. But you're making it as an objective one, with words you choose to describe your opinion.

[rocksea]

you should be ashamed of saying that!
instead of wishing your fellow beings good, you bless us with hell!! http://www.malumovies.com/modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_scratch.gif
i think your religion asks you to have wellwishes for everyone.
"do unto others as you want them to do unto you" that is what
bible says. so according to my religion, since you wished hell
for us, you will also suffer with hell.. http://www.malumovies.com/modules/Forums/images/smiles/evil5.gif
lord god, he doesn't know what he is saying, forgive him..
so even if we are in hell, we don't wish you to be there ;)

as it is christmas time, let us better send the message of love..
happy christmas to you! http://www.malumovies.com/modules/Forums/images/smiles/icon_santa.gif

[Jay]

If you want to have a religious discussion you just need to accept people are not going to agree with you and respect their right to disagree. Know what I mean?

[sparklingstars]

i donot want to argue any more.....
i said the thing about hell was because of your deeds.

[Scheherazade]

sparklingstars>
Islam is not a religion which encourages its followers to be dismissive towards others' beliefs. Nor is it a religion which permits to pass judgement on others in the name of Allah on His behalf. The way to help people understand Islam -if that is what you are trying to achieve- is not to aggravate them but to befriend them and let them see what muslim people are really like.

[atiguhya padma]

I do so wish that we hadn't invented the concept of hell. It gets so boring arguing with people who get a kick out of imagining their antagonist as an eternal burns victim. Its all rather sad and silly really.

SS, do make sure you clear your private message inbox for all those enquiries that will be coming your way. Your only allowed 100 messages at a time you know!

[mono]

sparklingstars, I, for one, appreciate your offering in educating us the essentials of Islam, but wishing us a nice time in hell, if I may so judge, seems entirely unnecessary. Including in Islam, and with almost all other religions, one common teaching, without the exact words, includes treating others as you would want be treated yourself. On behalf of all others, I apologize that you feel so offended; I doubt if anyone intended to offend your religion. Regardless, I hope this thread does not influence you to dislike everyone on the forum, or to never type messages again, as I find such debates, without the accompanying of prejudice and anger, interesting.

[EAP]

Problem, Mono, is that an extremely large quantity of Muslims believe that Non-Muslims are automatically docked for safe passage to hell on birth. They take it as a matter of course and don't realise that their... putting things into this prespective shall we say, is rather offensive to the non-muslims.

I for one, would like to apologize for the Muslims. It really isn't our business judging others, specially people we have never encountered beyond a temporary virtual facade.

[Logos]

Thank you for this EAP, and all others who have replied to this topic within the description of said Forum:

"Discuss religious or sacred texts here. Remember to respect the beliefs of others."




I for one, would like to apologize for the Muslims. It really isn't our business judging others, specially people we have never encountered beyond a temporary virtual facade.

[baddad]

There is no heaven. There is no hell. Energy can not be destroyed, but only transformed into a different format. But nothing is leaving this planet's gravity well, including the energy of a 'soul', unless it is packed aboard a rocket ship. Yes, there is life after death. The earth recycles everything.

*.....felt compelled to write the above for some reason.....*

This was a difficult situation ....this thread turned awkward instead of enlightening.....but it also displayed quite a bit of understanding in some of the replies...hats off to those who made an effort to be understanding.....I'm proud to be (virtual world) associated with such a group....

[crisaor]

ok then...
have a nice time in hell after this life.
This is of no surprise. One could see it coming from your first post. You're uncivil, at best.


SS, do make sure you clear your private message inbox for all those enquiries that will be coming your way. Your only allowed 100 messages at a time you know!
HAHAHAHA. :thumbs_up

[caspian]

If you want to have a religious discussion you just need to accept people are not going to agree with you and respect their right to disagree. Know what I mean?

I agree with Jay 100%. And I'm really sorry for sparklingstars's wish regarding to have a nice time in hell.

Sparklingstars believes that all non-muslims will get into hell. But there's hadis which tell that one man who was non-religious got into paradise just because he filled his shoes with water and let dying dog drink from it. GOD judge people above at all by their deeds. Sparklingstars wish you - non-muslims to get into hell, because he thinks that you're in wrong way and you don't wish to get know the right one, but, on a local forum I (a muslim one) got same wish from muslim-shiit one. That guy believe that just muslim-shiits will get into paradise, the rest muslims will have to be pleased with hell.
It's normal. there're still non-civil ones. But it doesn't mean that majority of them are muslims. You often hear the non-civil ones because they usually talk about their beliefs loudly.

[rocksea]

..You often hear the non-civil ones because they usually talk about their beliefs loudly.

Ya true.. and that usually tend to spoil the name and well being of the whole community as well.

[Jay]

Indeed.
*s10cr*

[Amra]

"Problem, Mono, is that an extremely large quantity of Muslims believe that Non-Muslims are automatically docked for safe passage to hell on birth. They take it as a matter of course and don't realise that their... putting things into this prespective shall we say, is rather offensive to the non-muslims. "

I always get frustrated reading things like this, because people want to portray Islam as being the only religion that is so exclusive. But, when you look at other religions, the situation is not very different at all. If someone dies without accepting Jesus as God and savior, will that person go to heaven? Will someone who was worshiping Allah s.v.t all his or her life, go to heaven according to the Bible, if he did good deeds? I mean, we have to be true to ourselves and if we claim one thing about one religion, we have to be as critical about our own, if there should be any objectivity. If, according to the Bible, a person will go into heaven merely by being a good person, than I don't see a reason to let Jesus save me, or accept him as God. Am I wrong?

Now let me explain this view of punishment according to Islam, as best as I can. I, as a Muslim, do not feel that I need to justify God's ways, nor do I feel that I need to hide or embellish anything, so that someone might find it easier to accept certain facts. I believe that Islam is the true religion from God, and every word that has been revealed in the Qur'an has to be accepted as God's word, as His command, and as evidence of God's wisdom. Having said that, I'd like to state that the only sin God will never forgive is shirk (meaning, belief in another deity, or believing that another deity or human being is equal to Allah s.v.t and is deserving of worship). People who die believing that there was another god, and spend their lives worshiping that deity, will spend eternity in hellfire. This is clearly stated in numerous verses in the holy Qur'an, and I can cite those if someone is interested.

Muslims believe that every revelation came from the same God; that Jesus (peace be upon him) was a Prophet just like Moses (peace be upon him) was a Prophet, and that God has sent prophets to people from the day He created them. They all came with one message; the belief in one God, a God above all else, a God who is eternal and does not resemble anything a human being could imagine. Muslims accept all prophets, believing that Mohammed (peace be upon him) was the last prophet, and with him the process of revelations was completed; after him there will be no more prophets until the Judgment Day. Mohammed (peace be upon him) was sent to correct what was wrong with other revelations (Muslims believe that many God's revelations were changed over time by humans so that the true message of God was distorted), to confirm what was true (those who have read the Qur'an and other religious books will find many similarities) and to complete God's message in the final revelation.

Who will go to heaven and who to hell? Well, that is certainly not for us to discuss, since we do not know. God has revealed to us that He is just, and that the ultimate justice is with Him, and we sincerely believe that this is true, and that He will punish those who deserve punishment and reward those who have earned it. What the scholars have agreed upon based on the Qur'an and the hadith is that for a good deed to be accepted, three conditions must be satisfied. First, one must believe that there is only one God who deserves to be worshipped. Second, one must do the good deed only to satisfy God. This means that we must do something in the name of God, in order to expect reward from that action. If God commands us to give money to the poor, and we do it, but in our hearts only want to be looked at by others as generous and admired for that, than that deed will not do any good in the afterlife. God says in one verse that if you do something only for your personal satisfaction, for admiration, or to gain other's approval, than that will be your only reward. However, if you do something in the name of God, than you will get both; reward from people and reward in the afterlife. Third, the good deed has to be in the category of the things Allah s.v.t has allowed us to do. Therefore, doing only good deeds is not enough, if these conditions are not satisfied. Of course, we cannot assume that a person who only does good and the person who does evil will be treated the same, even if these conditions are not satisfied, but we cannot tell how God will decide these things; we can only believe in His absolute justice.

As I have mentioned also, Muslims believe in all prophets and all of them are equally respected and loved, since they have carried God's mission and God is satisfied with them. In many versed in the Qur'an, Christians and Jews are called the people of the Book, meaning those who have also received the revelation and believe in one God, and it is said that among them (Christians and Jews) are good people who believe in the Oneness of God and who do good deeds, and therefore have nothing to fear. Ultimately, as I have said, we cannot tell that anyone will go into heaven for sure, (except the prophets), until the Judgment Day comes and God decides those things, because we believe that by doing the good deeds (with those three conditions satisfied) we merely give ourselves the right to hope, but we go into heaven only by God's mercy.

I hope this will help a little bit. Of course there is so much more that could be said about all these issues, but didn't want to overwhelm you. ;)

[baddad]

Nice one Amra!

Informative, succinct, didactic without preaching....thanks for enlightening me on these points.

[Scheherazade]

I always get frustrated reading things like this, because people want to portray Islam as being the only religion that is so exclusive. But, when you look at other religions, the situation is not very different at all.

Amra,
thank you for your patience and time to put together a detailed post which aims to enlighten rather than preach. Although I try to stay away from religious discussions (one does learn a lesson or two as one gets older ;) ), I sometimes cannot help joining in.
The reason, I am afraid, why Islam is seen as a particularly exclusive religion mostly lies with Muslims themselves. Rather than being openminded and hearted, the attitude adopted IS exclusive. If you look back and see sparklingstars' posts (hate to 'name names' and finger point but since he has started this thread, I guess it is OK), you can see that he did not hesitate to judge and brand people purely based on the notion that 'Muslim'/'Not Muslim'...
As you so rightly state in your post as well, one of the main teachings of Islam is to accept that humans are not equal to Allah. Therefore, people, Muslim or not, should not be passing judgements on Allah's behalf as to who will go to Heaven/Hell, who will be rewarded/punished.
If the aim is to spread Allah's word, the best way is to tell them what Allah has said as it is stated in Qoran without adding your own judgements on others.

[mono]

Thank you for teaching us in a most informative, knowledgable, and un-biased manner, Amra, as opposed to another's severe posts (no need for names).

[subterranean]

Amra,
The reason, I am afraid, why Islam is seen as a particularly exclusive religion mostly lies with Muslims themselves. Rather than being openminded and hearted, the attitude adopted IS exclusive. If you look back and see sparklingstars' posts (hate to 'name names' and finger point but since he has started this thread, I guess it is OK), you can see that he did not hesitate to judge and brand people purely based on the notion that 'Muslim'/'Not Muslim'...
.

The thing is Scher, there are some who consider that, that kind of action is justify by the books (Quran, Haddits, etc) and they feel that they're told to do so. This goes to the "hardliners" I suppose. This is my own personal experience. When I was still in college, one day I went to the libary then I took a seat beside a Muslim guy (I could tell from the way he dressed). Then he moved away and took another chair. I didn't get the reason and I was thinking at that time "Did I smell or did I look like somekind of person with sickness or something". Then I asked my friend, who also a Muslim (and he is labelled the "liberal" Muslim), about it and he explained that there's a rule in Islam that a man and a woman, who don't have a "special relationship" (in this case special relationship means who are not married to each other), are not allow to sit too near (like less than a meter or something). Well I was surprised, but then I thought "O ok, religious rules can be very "akward" sometimes so I can understand though I can't accept it."
Another one was when there was this Muslim guy who refused to shake hands with me cause, more or less, the same reason with the above (not allow to touch a woman who doesn't have special relationship with him).

I live in Indonesia where the majority of citizens are Muslims, and am glad that there are still many who doesn't live "exclusively" (to use Scher term). But maybe coz I live in the capital city. Things are quite different in the small cities, or villages.

[Scheherazade]

The reason for some Muslim guys not wanting to be sitting next to females or shake their hands is not the fact that there is a dictum in Qoran which states how close they can get to the other sex. They do that because they don't want to have 'impure' thoughts or be tempted in anyway. If that is their belief, we can respect that I guess... Understand why they are doing it even though we may not agree with it.
However, I didn't mean this kind of behaviour when I said 'exclusive'. I was more concentrating on the behaviour of some which simply says 'you are either one of us or you go to hell'... which can be true for all religiuos extremists.

[Amra]

“The thing is Scher, there are some who consider that, that kind of action is justified by the books (Quran, Haddits, etc) and they feel that they're told to do so. This goes to the "hardliners" I suppose. This is my own personal experience. When I was still in college, one day I went to the library then I took a seat beside a Muslim guy (I could tell from the way he dressed). Then he moved away and took another chair. I didn't get the reason and I was thinking at that time "Did I smell or did I look like some kind of person with sickness or something". Then I asked my friend, who also a Muslim (and he is labeled the "liberal" Muslim), about it and he explained that there's a rule in Islam that a man and a woman, who don't have a "special relationship" (in this case special relationship means who are not married to each other), are not allow to sit too near (like less than a meter or something). Well I was surprised, but then I thought "O ok, religious rules can be very "awkward" sometimes so I can understand though I can't accept it.
Another one was when there was this Muslim guy who refused to shake hands with me cause, more or less, the same reason with the above (not allow to touch a woman who doesn't have special relationship with him).”

I read your comment with interest because I can see how other people could get the same ideas as you, given the experience you had, but I have to explain some things. It is a misconception to believe that there are variations of Islam, such that there is the "hard-line" Islam vs. the "liberal" Islam. It is true that some people accept Islam to the fullest, while others do not follow all the rules, but that merely means that those who are not following certain things are committing sins. Some will tell you that they know it is a sin, others will maybe try to justify their behavior by saying that times have changed ;) or that we live under difficult circumstances and it is hard to observe all the rules, and many other excuses. The truth is that their faith is simply not strong enough and therefore they are not observing all the rules. Another thing, it is not true that one can tell a Muslim man from the way he dresses, because a Muslim man can wear anything as long as it is not made of silk, it is not too tight and when wearing pants, they cannot be above his knees. If you see a man wearing long robes, it has nothing to do with Islam, but rather with his country’s tradition and customs. The only way you could recognize Muslim men by their appearance would be by their long beards (although not all Muslim men have them, but it is very common).

Now, to understand Islam, one has to know the basic things on which it is founded. Namely, the first source of all teachings in Islam is the holy Qur’an. It is God’s revelation to Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him), and it is believed that every letter in the Qur’an is God’s word and has not changed since the revelation. It is the Book in which all rules, regulations, prohibitions, laws and commandments are expressed, so that nothing has been left out. After the holy Qur’an, we have the sunnah (Prophet Mohammed’s life), which is expressed in thousands of hadith (stories, sayings,advices) from the Prophet Mohammed (p.b.u.h). These are the stories about Prophet’s life, about things he said to his followers, things he did, advices he gave and so on. The people who were his followers remembered those, narrated them to others and eventually they were written down. The theologians did a great deal of research and classified hadith based on their truthfulness. Namely, when someone cites a hadith, he or she will usually provide the chain of transmission from the Prophet to the last person who heard it before it was written down. If that list of people contains one person who is considered not trustworthy, the hadith will not be accepted as true, and cannot be used to prove any teaching in Islam, or be used as a basis to issue any law or ruling. Only those hadith, which transmission can be traced back to Prophet Mohammed (p.b.u.h), and which have a strong chain of transmitters, have been accepted as truthful, and those hadith have been compromised in several books, which are considered the second source of Islamic teachings. The hadith have such high value and importance because it is believed that Prophet Mohammed (p.b.u.h) did nothing that was not inspired by God, and his life was a practical way to show Muslims how they should live their lives. Prophet’s wife Aisha (may God be pleased with her) said that Prophet Mohammed (p.b.u.h) was a “walking Qur’an”. For example, in the Qur’an, it is said that Muslims need to pray, but it was Prophet Mohammed (p.b.u.h) who showed the Muslims the exact way how to pray, which prayers to say, when to pray, how to perform the religious washing ritual before the prayer etc.
Now, after this small introduction :D , back to the topic….

One of the biggest sins a person can commit is adultery, meaning engaging in sexual activity with a person you are not married to. The importance of marriage, chastity and honor is highly regarded in Islam, since it instructs us to have high moral values and show respect to one another. However, one has to understand that God knows human beings better than we know ourselves. Therefore, when he commended us to do something, he also showed us the way to do it. This means that it is not only sin to commit the act of sexual intercourse, but anything that could lead to that is also considered to be a sin. People are easily tempted, and that temptation is the first thing that needs to be controlled, so that it does not come to the final “crime”. Because of that, a man and a woman, who are not related or married, are not allowed to touch one another. Only when a man has a sincere intention to marry a woman is he allowed to interact with her, speak to her, and meet with her. During that time, it is also not allowed for them to touch, only to speak to one another, so that they may get to know each other and decide if they would like to get married. Also, men and women are instructed in the Qur’an to guard their eyes, meaning to avoid looking at forbidden things which might tempt them, make them lust for something, or commit sin. Islam is a way of life, and Muslims are instructed to develop high morals, be pure, respectful, modest, thankful, so that they may lead lives in harmony and peace. It is believed that those who attain such morals become closer to God in such a way that He becomes the eyes with which they see, the tongue with which they speak, the ears with which they hear. This means that they are so aware of God’s presence that they almost automatically do things with which He is satisfied, because they are in his Grace and He guides and protects them. Now, I will cite two verses from the holy Qur’an so that you may see what I was trying to explain. In the surah An-Nur, verses 30, and 31, Allah s.v.t. says: ”Tell the believing men to lower their gaze, and protect their private parts. That is purer for them. Verily, Allah is All-Aware of what they do. 31. And tell the believing women to lower their gaze, and protect their private parts and not to show off their adornment except that which is apparent….” This shows that men and women, who are not married or related, are to lower their gazes when they meet each other, so that they do not open ways for temptation and lust to arise. So, when that guy moved away from you, he was only showing you respect and at the same time protecting himself from temptation, lust and impure thoughts. As for the shaking of hands, in one hadith Prophet Mohammed (p.b.u.h) said that it is better for a piece of hot iron to go through one’s brain than to touch a woman who is a stranger (not married and not related) to you.

Of course it is true that many might find these rules to be very strict and find justifications not to observe them, but one cannot change the teachings of Islam simply because one is not strong enough to live by them. Muslims believe that the holy Qur’an was God’s revelation and as such it is not to be limited to a particular time or specific people. God is not constrained by time or space, and He knew of the changes that would come in human lives, but He sent the Book that was to guide people until the Judgment Day, and which is not to be changed or adopted to human desires. It is up to us to strive each day, to fight against our temptations, to control our desires and to live a life that would ultimately bring us God’s satisfaction and reward. We are not expected to be perfect, and God will certainly forgive all sins that we do out of our inadequacies and weaknesses, if we sincerely fight against those. Islam teaches us that people will always sin, and that the evidence that one is a believer is not that he will stop sinning, but that he asks God’s forgiveness when he does sin. In this way, we show our need for His mercy, and our need for His Guidance. However, those who sin but try to justify their sins negating teachings of Islam are not “liberal” but rather not true Muslims, because Muslims have to accept the whole Qur’an, not just parts that are in sync with their desires and wishes.

P.S I seem to not be able to write short comments. :smash: :wave:

P.P.S Thanks for all the kind comments.. :blush:

[Amra]

"The reason, I am afraid, why Islam is seen as a particularly exclusive religion mostly lies with Muslims themselves. Rather than being openminded and hearted, the attitude adopted IS exclusive. If you look back and see sparklingstars' posts (hate to 'name names' and finger point but since he has started this thread, I guess it is OK), you can see that he did not hesitate to judge and brand people purely based on the notion that 'Muslim'/'Not Muslim'..."

This is true to some extent. Namely, when a person becomes religious, he immediately gets a strong desire to convert everyone and make everyone be a believer over night. :) Because of that passion, sometimes it seems that those people are very exclusive and stubborn, but I have learned myself that mostly they do not have bad intentions but rather a naive wish to "save the world". With time, one learns that it is not up to us to convert people and force them to accept something, but rather to live by our convictions and let others see the change on us. Those who seek the truth will eventually figure it out themselves. I, myself, was an atheist :eek2: (may God forgive me), and used to fight many battles with people who believed in God, trying to show them how wrong they were, and that human beings are intelectually far above being creatures who should worship anyone. I smile at myself sometimes when I think how stubborn and arrogant I was, and how it must have been hard for people to talk to me and explain all my advanced theories :lol: on how we invented God, how humans will eventually discover all secrets and there will not be any need to believe in supernatural powers etc.. :D ;) I know now that I was simply ignorant, that I wasn't really looking for the truth, but merely trying to satisfy my ego and show off my unchallenged debating skills. :D Now I am grateful that there were many people who had the patience to talk to me and let me discover things for myself, when I felt ready to do so. It is wrong to expect people to believe in something and change their lives drastically without being convinced that what they believe in, is truly the truth. Everyone should challenge himself to seek the truth withouth prejudice and with the right intention, and God willing, he will find it.

[Scheherazade]

Amra,
You have explained what I mentioned in my previous post in a much more detailed way and supported it from saying from Qoran and hadiths. No doubt you are very learned on the subjet :) What I cannot come to terms with is that it seems like women are treated potential temptation;nothing more, nothing less. Is it so hard to look at a person without considering their gender and befriend them on that ground? Do women have to be shunned (which might take us back to the original sin) merely because men are not strong enough to resist their urges?
Also, when you say some Muslims do 'preach' out of enthusiasm and 'a wish to save the world', is it OK in Islam to do that? Is it acceptable to tell people 'you are either convert or go to Hell'? I naively think that it is not.

[Amra]

"Amra,
You have explained what I mentioned in my previous post in a much more detailed way and supported it from saying from Qoran and hadiths. No doubt you are very learned on the subjet What I cannot come to terms with is that it seems like women are treated potential temptation;nothing more, nothing less. Is it so hard to look at a person without considering their gender and befriend them on that ground? Do women have to be shunned (which might take us back to the original sin) merely because men are not strong enough to resist their urges? "

All the verses and commandments are both for men and women. It is the same that men should lower their gaze as well as that women should do the same. It is true that men cannot touch a woman and as well as that a woman cannot touch a man. There is no difference. However, it is true that woman is by nature the more appealing creature. The proof of that is seen all around us. Women are found in commercials advertising things that have nothing to do with themselves or what they are supposed to represent. It is the women who are seen as more attractive, sexy, tempting creature. It is nothing to be ashamed of, nor is it women's fault that she is seen in that way. The only difference in commendments towards men and women is that women need to cover their bodies (except the face and the hands), wheras the men can wear anything as long as it is not made of silk, not too tight and if wearing pants, they have to be above the knees.
Muslims also do not believe that it was Eva's fault that Adam ate from the forbidden tree. God said that both of them were equally guilty and punished both of them. Every person is responsible for his or her own deeds, and no one can bear the sins of another human being, nor avoid being punished for a sin by trying to put the blame on someone else. Here are the verses from the Qur'an that speak of that incident:(Surah al-Baqara, Verses 35,36)

35. And We said: "O Adam! Dwell you and your wife in the Paradise and eat both of you freely with pleasure and delight, of things therein wherever you will, but come not near this tree or you both will be of the Zalimin (wrongdoers).
36. Then the Shaytan (the Devil) made them slip therefrom (the Paradise), and got them out from that in which they were. We said: "Get you down, all, with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be a dwelling place for you and an enjoyment for a time.''

And also in sura Taha, verses 117-121:

117.Then We said: "O Adam! Verily, this is an enemy to you and to your wife. So let him not get you both out of Paradise, so that you will be distressed." 118. "You will never be hungry therein nor naked.''
119. "And you (will) suffer not from thirst therein nor from the sun's heat.'' 120. Then Shaytan whispered to him, saying: "O Adam! Shall I lead you to the Tree of Eternity and to a kingdom that will never waste away''
121. Then they both ate of the Tree, and so their private parts became manifest to them, and they began to cover themselves with the leaves of the Paradise for their covering. Thus Adam disobeyd his Lord, so he went astray.

In those verses it is shown that both Adam and Eve disobeyed God, and both were equally punished. Therefore, a woman does not carry the burden of being guilty for the "original sin". Another thing, Muslims do not believe that people are born guilty because of the sin Adem and Eve committed. As I said, everyone is responsible for his or her own actions and everyone will only be asked for the deeds he himself did or did not do. People are born innocent, without any evil in them.

"Also, when you say some Muslims do 'preach' out of enthusiasm and 'a wish to save the world', is it OK in Islam to do that? Is it acceptable to tell people 'you are either convert or go to Hell'? I naively think that it is not."

Of course not. Telling someone that he is not a believer or that he will go into hell is a grave accusations. Prophet Mohammed (p.b.u.h) said that when a person says to another person that he is an unbeliever, then one of them surely is just that. Anyone who fears God should avoid using such strong accusations because only God can see the hearts of human beings and only He knows their intentions. I only made that comment to try to make others see why someone would say things like that, not to justify it but to find some understanding. There is no human who that is perfect, and when learning about a religion, it is best to look for it in its primary sources, rather than judge it by its followers.

[myself]

hey, i am a muslim and i was watching a film called constantine and i have realized that most aspects of the islamic religion are the same as chritianity............who watched this film and what do you think of my point?

[SheykAbdullah]

To discuss a little further what Amra is saying, I have always found it interesting how much religions (at least moralistic religions) parallel one another, and how these parallels can cause massive amounts of misunderstanding. To take for example the religion of Christianity and its two main sects, the ROman Catholics and the Protestants. These two groups often find themselves at ends to one another, and never really ask why. I have always believed that their animosity derives from a fundamental difference in the idea of God, one, the Protestants, typically believe in a God that is more active in the world, one who takes action to directly save man, where as Romans tend to believe in a God that is more withdrawn, uninvolved, and accesible only through certain channels. This basic fundamental difference on the one hand explains their differing theologies and on the other drives a wedge between the two of them.

Islam seems to have the same problem with Christianity, namely one of basic misunderstanding, and this is where Amra briefly touched on. Islam is a much more deterministic faith than Christianity. Many of its rules, and many which Westerners find odd, stem from the fact that we believe in free will to at least some extent, wherein Islam it is largely refuted. Things happen because Allah wills them. That is why you can speak to, say from personal experience, an Iranian about seeing him tomorrow at the class you have had together for an entire semester and he will still say 'God willing.' It also explains a phenomenon in many Gulf countries American soldiers wonder at. Often Kuwaitis will abondon late model luxury cars on the road because of a minor problem, or because they have died because the oil was never changed. To the Kuwaiti itis not unusual, the car's usefulness has past and it was only built to go that far. They have enough money to buy another one.

Now this is not to say that there have not been Christian denominations as fatalistic as traditional Islam is, the Clavinists are an excellent example of such a sect, but for the most part those sects have waned in their popularity. It is strange, I think, that such small thing as the idea of God's ability to touch the world, or the idea of free will should create so much havoc in the world, but c'est la vie. That's what makes it inreresting to be alive.

[myself]

[QUOTE=sparklingstars]every religon would have upside and down side but islam has only upsides ...why?.......
because its a true religon

this is not the only reason why islam only upsides, this is becuase islam is a continuation of all the other religions. you would find no difference in all religions when it comes to fiath,only actions. all religion were only upsides but people long ago misunderstood thier religion and generation after generation the religion was changed and this is why christianity now is not the christianity which was their ages ago.

[ShoutGrace]

Now this is not to say that there have not been Christian denominations as fatalistic as traditional Islam is, the Clavinists are an excellent example of such a sect, but for the most part those sects have waned in their popularity.

I think that most Christians shy away from Calvinism because they don't like the idea of a God who not only ordains people for hell, but in fact wills their hearts against him and in doing so condemns them to hell. If God is active and in fact makes our choices for us, then he is (in their way of thinking) responsible for sending them to hell, and wishes them to be there.

If "free will" is true, however, then God wants everybody in Heaven and it is our own selfish rejection of him which condemns us. Which makes us more slimy and God better, which is always useful for evangelizing.


It is strange, I think, that such small thing as the idea of God's ability to touch the world, or the idea of free will should create so much havoc in the world, but c'est la vie. That's what makes it inreresting to be alive.

:-) Are you trying to say that the opposition of these ideas is causing havoc or that either one causes its own havoc?

[SheykAbdullah]

Of course, shoutgrace, free will is one of the ultimate questions of existence when pondering the idea of God and we will all have our own seperate opinions of the fact. Personally, I am not concerned with the validity of free will in an epistemological sense, rather in the cultural ideas of free will and how they shape both religion and man.

I think you are right about Calvinism, but that is because we are Europeans. Our view of the world doens't allow us to accept some things as easily as other people do, and vise versa. Even in Europe some things make sense in a cultural sense to Englishmen that are baffeling to a southern European. Culture in many ways defines how acceptable certain things are to us. As an example, I attended a language school once that was nothing but that and taught almost every living language you can name. The classes were all taught by native instructors. Thus each class took on cultural aspects of the language you were learning. The language that had more people fail it than anyone else was Korean, not necesarily because it is a tough language for someone coming from English to learn (though it is), but it was because a Korean can study a subject for eight hours in school and then four hours at home. Culturally, Americans can't do that. We don't handle studying/reading/doing one thing single-mindedky for hours and hours on end, yet the Korean teachers expected their students to, and they couldn't, and so they failed the class.

Now this is not saying one idea is better than anyother, but I think it explains the reason why some oriental cultures accept fatalism more easily than we do, and why the idea exists and thrives in Islam why it doesn't in the Western mindset. It's just one of those things that makes Islam and Christianity, Europeans, and Middle Easterners (and far Easterners and everyone else who practices Islam) different.

[kemal]

İslam is the same religion Chiriastinity, judaism. only difference others religios last

[Logos]

Old topic bumped since rules have been updated:
http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15410