May / France Reading: "Papillon" by Henri Charriere

[Scheherazade]

http://a114.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/38/s_0f6e92fcd3c458486a0cd781aa7b4a51.jpg

In May, we will be reading Papillon by Henri Charriere:
A classic memoir of prison breaks and adventure -- a bestselling phenomenon of the 1960s Condemned for a murder he had not committed, Henri Charriere (nicknamed Papillon) was sent to the penal colony of French Guiana. Forty-two days after his arrival he made his first break, travelling a thousand gruelling miles in an open boat. Recaptured, he went into solitary confinement and was sent eventually to Devil's Island, a hell-hole of disease and brutality. No one had ever escaped from this notorious prison -- no one until Papillon took to the shark-infested sea supported only by a makeshift coconut-sack raft. In thirteen years he made nine daring escapes, living through many fantastic adventures while on the run -- including a sojourn with South American Indians whose women Papillon found welcomely free of European restraints! Papillon is filled with tension, adventure and high excitement. It is also one of the most vivid stories of human endurance ever written. Henri Charriere died in 1973 at the age of 66. Please post your thoughts and questions on the book in this thread.


Book Club Procedures (http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?p=57103#post57103)

[Niamh]

It will be a while before i get a chance to read this. I'm up to my eyes in books and manuscripts at the mo.

[Weisinheimer]

I started it a couple of days ago. Haven't gotten far enough to comment much about it, but it's pretty interesting from the start. Some books take me a while to get into, but I don't think that's the case with this one.

[mickitaz]

I ordered the book from Borders. I just got the phone call that it came in :) Right now, I am reading Hunchback of Notre Dame.. but I think I will read the two at the same time. I have to say, I am really excited about this.

[DapperDrake]

yeah I asked at borders, apparently they have a couple of copies coming in by the end of the week so I'll wait for one of those. Which should fit in nicely with my reading of catch 22, I estimate I'll be finished by about mid-week.

[bazarov]

I cannot borrow Papillon in my library...They don't have it. Weird.

[Scheherazade]

Hoping to get my copy today.

Baz> Will they not get it from the other libraries in your area?

[thelastmelon]

I cannot borrow Papillon in my library...They don't have it. Weird.

They don't have it in any of the libraries around here. Or they have two copies, but they are in French, and I'm not too good at that. And I can't afford to buy any books right now, that's why I can't participate this month.

[papayahed]

I finally got the book, I'm going to start tonight.

[Chester]

I simply have too much on my plate to read this one at this point. But I count the movie as among my top 10 favorite movies of all times (and Steve McQueen as one of my top 10 favorite actors). I'll be following this thread and if there's anybody that has both read the book and watched the film, I'd be very interested in any comparisons you might wish to make.

[Virgil]

I actually have the book. I've had in my stack of unread books for probably 20 years. But I'm afraid I can't participate. I'm still trying to finish The Name of the Rose. Papillion is almost 600 pages of very tiny tiny print. I don't think I can do it. I'm sorry. But it was one heck of a movie and I hope one day I finally can read the book.

[_Shannon_]

OKay- just got mine, so I'll start reading today!

[Weisinheimer]

I'm glad to see that at least a couple of people have started reading it. I'm almost done.


Papillion is almost 600 pages of very tiny tiny print. I don't think I can do it. I'm sorry. But it was one heck of a movie and I hope one day I finally can read the book.
My copy is only 400 some pages, and not so tiny print. What translation do you have? You should definitely read it sometime; it's really good. I'm loving it.

[Virgil]

I'm glad to see that at least a couple of people have started reading it. I'm almost done.


My copy is only 400 some pages, and not so tiny print. What translation do you have? You should definitely read it sometime; it's really good. I'm loving it.

It says translated from the French by Patrick O'Brian. Published 1970 by Panther Books.

[DapperDrake]

Finally! I just got my copy this morning - Medium print 560 pages, translated by Patrick O'Brian.

It has this exact cover:

http://img186.imageshack.us/img186/8587/200pxpapillonbookno3.jpg

I'm going to start reading it right now :) - Not normally the sort of book that I would pick up so I'm curious.

[papayahed]

I'm about 100 pages in and I'm really digging it so far.

[_Shannon_]

I'm about 100 pages in and I'm really digging it so far.
Yeah- me too!:thumbs_up

[Scheherazade]

I have read about 1/3 of the book and am enjoying it very much. It is a real page-turner. Been wondering whether Henri Charriere got any help while writing the book...

[papayahed]

I have read about 1/3 of the book and am enjoying it very much. It is a real page-turner. Been wondering whether Henri Charriere got any help while writing the book...

I as wondering that as well. The introduction in my copy says that Henri wrote it in 2 months in 13 spiral notebooks. The publisher changed very little. It also goes on to say that Henri was known as a great storyteller. hmmm, that doesn't answer the question does it..:lol:

I was taken with his discriptions of the court proceedings and his time in the Paris jail, especially of the prosecutor. Henri does an excellent job of getting his description across without beating it into the ground and giving us every minute detail.

I've reached the part where Papillon has made it to Trinidad on his first Cavale, I'm slightly incredulous at the reception he seems to be receiving. I have to wonder if he is remembering only the good stuff of Trinidad and the Lepers, there was a thirty year span.

[DapperDrake]

Ah you're at a the same point as me Papayahed, yes the warm welcome in Trinidad does seem a little surprising doesn't it. However I suppose legally the British had no reason to persecute them, and as they were only stopping for two weeks before heading off into the ocean in an open boat, you can see why they would be perfectly civil. Plus there seems to be a lot of sympathy for the inmates of French Guiana, so all in all its not so hard to believe.
The way the Lepers treated them is even less surprising, of course the lepers could never leave, but through Papillon et al they could at least live that escape through others.
Also I guess having just escaped from internment at French Guiana pretty much everything is going to seem wonderful. I can't imagine what thats like but when ever I escape something that i'm dreading the world seems to positively glow afterwards. I guess thats going to colour Henri's memory a bit.

I must say i'm quite impressed with the translation so far, there's only been one or two two bits that don't quite translate perfectly but other than that you wouldn't even know you were reading a translation.

[_Shannon_]

Why do you think that freedom would color one's memory? It is possible that the people truly wanted to offer these men new lives, and felt that the road to decency was one rooted in treating others with dignity. It seemed like the general attitude was that the French were being barbaric in heir treatment of prosoners-- and being British subjects- there was likely an added level of animosity towards the French--believing the British system to be superior.

I dunno-- it seems almost like a stop on the Underground Railroad, or something to me.

[DapperDrake]

Why do you think that freedom would color one's memory? It is possible that the people truly wanted to offer these men new lives, and felt that the road to decency was one rooted in treating others with dignity. It seemed like the general attitude was that the French were being barbaric in heir treatment of prosoners-- and being British subjects- there was likely an added level of animosity towards the French--believing the British system to be superior.

I dunno-- it seems almost like a stop on the Underground Railroad, or something to me.

Oh I've no argument with what you say, I've no doubt that there was sympathy and that people did want to offer them a chance etc..

[_Shannon_]

LOl- sorry if I sounded antagonistic- I really need to not post before I've had my morning coffee :)

[Scheherazade]

I am one of those who have been surprised by the reception in Trinidad as well, I guess. Hoping and wishing everyone gets a chance at starting anew is one thing but letting them into your house and life is another, I believe. They did not have any worries about these convicts about whom they knew next to nothing and did not mind them getting close with their families. They could have been serial murderers, rapists and what not.

[papayahed]

I am one of those who have been surprised by the reception in Trinidad as well, I guess. Hoping and wishing everyone gets a chance at starting anew is one thing but letting them into your house and life is another, I believe. They did not have any worries about these convicts about whom they knew next to nothing and did not mind them getting close with their families. They could have been serial murderers, rapists and what not.


That's what I'm thinking. Giving convicts a little help is one thing but the one guy left three convicts in his home alone with his wife and daughter!! That seems a bit foolish if you ask me.

[_Shannon_]

However- if they are devout as is the bishop on the island--this is in a sense living out of their faith, that offering love when it isn't deserved is likely the most powerful means of transformation there is. Papi is upfront about the charges brought against him, and I think that likely the manner in which he communicates that is probably swaying to people. Being island people who live with the sea--there is probably also an inherent knowledge of how deeply the desire is for the men to be free if they have endured the voyage that they have made.

I think it is probably also apparent the allegiance that Papillion's men have towards him, as well as him being a man who lives by a code. Again being people of the sea- the attitudes of those "under" him about him- are probably very illustrative to the people of the island of the character which he posseses. It might not be the same moral code as a straight man- but he does have a deeply imbedded sense of justice.

[_Shannon_]

I was thinking yesterday about how this story is very Odyssey-esque. The Indians are kind of like Calypso, there is the whole raging sea/Poseidon parrallel, wasn't one of the jailers somewhere (maybe the trusty??) only one -eyed??-- and of course there is the perpetual need for escaping....

[DapperDrake]

I'm around page 230, I must say I'm finding it a little hard to believe Henri hasn't used some artistic licence i.e. embellished the truth.. Its pretty incredible stuff.

Its a good read but, so far, more superficial than the sort of book I would usually go for - it's a page-turner for sure but to me that's often a good sign that a book is no good.

[Chester]

...it's a page-turner for sure but to me that's often a good sign that a book is no good.
Hi Dapper, do you mind clarifying this a bit for me? On its face it seems kind of counterintuitive. Wouldn't a page-turner make for a "good" book?

[DapperDrake]

Hi Dapper, do you mind clarifying this a bit for me? On its face it seems kind of counter intuitive. Wouldn't a page-turner make for a "good" book?

Oh sure, well basically "page-turners" tend to be superficial, just entertainment if you take my meaning. Where as I prefer to come away from reading a book feeling that I've enriched myself rather than just having passed the time pleasantly.

[Chester]

Okay. Different definitions of "good" then, I would say, depending on the reader (or what the reader happens to be in the mood for). Not that I would disagree with yours. I share that definition too, most of the times. Naturally one hopes a work can be a bit of both -- page-turning and enriching.

[_Shannon_]

Oh sure, well basically "page-turners" tend to be superficial, just entertainment if you take my meaning. Where as I prefer to come away from reading a book feeling that I've enriched myself rather than just having passed the time pleasantly.

I dunno- that's kind of book-snobbery, doncha think?? ;) There are plenty a great works of literature that are also page turners--Dickens comes readily to mind, Dumas, Robert Louis Stevenson, Kipling. Although perhaps you feel them to be just superficial entertainment??:confused:

One of the great aspects of Papillon, I think is the power of hope (even misplaced hope) and also how the inherent goodness and acceptance of others is an immensely powerful force. I don't think those themes are merely superficial. There is also another important aspect--the idea of what liberty means, i.e can a nation truly consider itself free if they treat criminals as less than human.

[Scheherazade]

I agree with Shannon that the assumption that page-turner = superficial entertainment is a superficial approach. There are many "classic books" which I consider to be page-turners but offer "food for thought" as well as entertainment. I could not put Catch-22 down or The Name of the Rose and I don't consider them superficial books. Do you?

[DapperDrake]

I dunno- that's kind of book-snobbery, doncha think?? ;) There are plenty a great works of literature that are also page turners--Dickens comes readily to mind, Dumas, Robert Louis Stevenson, Kipling. Although perhaps you feel them to be just superficial entertainment??:confused:

Well I don't think it is book snobbery as such, although I admit it could look like it. Its just a preference, I almost resent using my reading time up on books who's only saving grace is the fact that they're entertaining when I could be getting so much more out of the time.
I don't mean to say all page-turners are shallow, just that with modern books at least, they tend to be. To be fair I wouldn't call any of the books by the authors you've mentioned page-turners, and they're certainly not shallow - even if they had no other redeeming characteristics they have the virtue of being a strong part of our cultural and literary heritage - though they most certain have many more virtues than just that.
To be honest I think the page-turner is an invention of the last 100 years, its a modern writing style that is very readable, almost additively so, but is rarely accompanied by any particular literary skill or enduring content. The da vinci code is an example (one among hundreds of thousands no doubt).



One of the great aspects of Papillon, I think is the power of hope (even misplaced hope) and also how the inherent goodness and acceptance of others is an immensely powerful force. I don't think those themes are merely superficial. There is also another important aspect--the idea of what liberty means, i.e can a nation truly consider itself free if they treat criminals as less than human.

Well perhaps, I haven't quite made up my mind about the book yet and to be fair I haven't finished it. Although there are those questions raised by the story they are not treated with in the story, i.e. these themes are in the story but only superficially so in the writing.
Don't get me wrong I'm not writing the book off completely as a waste of my time or anything like that, It has the virtue of being true at least and is an interesting insight into the period.


I agree with Shannon that the assumption that page-turner = superficial entertainment is a superficial approach. There are many "classic books" which I consider to be page-turners but offer "food for thought" as well as entertainment. I could not put Catch-22 down or The Name of the Rose and I don't consider them superficial books. Do you?

Ah now Catch-22 is a superb book - but perhaps I'm being misleading here, when I call a book a page-turner I'm implying that its main or only value is that compulsion to carry on reading. As I was saying above that's a characteristic of modern popular fiction.

[Scheherazade]

but perhaps I'm being misleading here, when I call a book a page-turner I'm implying that its main or only value is that compulsion to carry on reading. As I was saying above that's a characteristic of modern popular fiction.Probably. In my opinion, a page-turner is an interesting and exciting book (eg, The Name of the Rose or Perfume).

[DapperDrake]

Yes I think I'm misusing the term, for me "page-turner" has always had superficial connotations, I've looked up some definitions and I think that added meaning is peculiar to me :p

Sorry for the confusion.

[_Shannon_]

I hope I used my winky smilie to indicated the light hearted "book snobbery" comment. I am totally a book snob :) (Hence my examples of books I thought of as page turners)

I don't think that I have a problem with the "I do this. I do that" approach--as being a significant way in which to present deeper themes. But I do have a weakness for Frank O'Hara's poetry, and could be clouded by that in my judgement. LOL! I think it's interesting to think not only what is writen in a book, but also what is left unwritten, unsaid, which can be just as crucial to discerning intent...YKWIM?

[DapperDrake]

I don't think that I have a problem with the "I do this. I do that" approach--as being a significant way in which to present deeper themes. But I do have a weakness for Frank O'Hara's poetry, and could be clouded by that in my judgement. LOL! I think it's interesting to think not only what is writen in a book, but also what is left unwritten, unsaid, which can be just as crucial to discerning intent...YKWIM?

I think I understand what you're saying but is Henri trying to present deeper themes? I'm not sure, perhaps I'm not giving him credit here but I don't think I see it.

Back to the story though, does anyone else think Henri was an idiot to leave the Goajira? and what about leaving Lali and Zoraima like that?

[mickitaz]

Well, I have been quiet so far during this discussion. Mainly because I have been reading. So far, I am enjoying it. Which is strange, because I haven't read a piece of non fiction in quite some time.

I find this to be an interesting book on two levels. First, from my understanding, this is Henri's first book (only?). This is basically a memoire of his life after he was convicted. So often, I look for plots, allegories, hidden meanings to a story. I think about how the story is developing, the characters, and the possible paths they may take. Depending on the author, I find similarities in the writing styles for who influenced them.

Since this is neither, I am finding it a strange experience. The introduction to my book indicates that Henri wrote in the manner in which he told his stories. So, in reading his experiences, I am trying to find his personality, to connect with him on some level.

The second level of interest is his actual experiences, and trying to understand what is motivating him to carry on. He keeps mentioning the memory of his father, and making sure that he is okay. I can understand that I suppose. One area of interest, he mentions when he is first convicted, that he says goodbye to his wife. Yet, when he lives with the Indians, and takes on Lali and Zoraima; he tells their father it is his father for the reason he must go.. What about his wife? Why has she become so insignificant in the reason he must return? Maybe it is just the woman part of me, but without knowing him before he went to prison, this is a question that keeps repeating in my mind.

I have to say, this is a new experience overall. While I am enjoying reading the stories, I don't know how to arrange my thoughts; or what to think of next. I will certainly finish the book. Perhaps then, I will have some of my answers.

[_Shannon_]

I think I understand what you're saying but is Henri trying to present deeper themes? I'm not sure, perhaps I'm not giving him credit here but I don't think I see it.

Back to the story though, does anyone else think Henri was an idiot to leave the Goajira? and what about leaving Lali and Zoraima like that?

To me he seems to be making more of a point than simply narrating his story (or a version of his story)...but I also read a lot of literary non-fiction as transition books between novels, and so perhaps it is I who am reading things into the book which are not really there.

LOL! I dunno- idiot? Probably!- but I know for me in something so outside of my norm---it would be very difficult to ever make that feel like home, like a place where I could rest and unburden my soul. And yet like he explains- the longer I stayed the harder it would be to leave because of being more intertwined with other people's lives and things....

[mickitaz]

LOL! I dunno- idiot? Probably!- but I know for me in something so outside of my norm---it would be very difficult to ever make that feel like home, like a place where I could rest and unburden my soul. And yet like he explains- the longer I stayed the harder it would be to leave because of being more intertwined with other people's lives and things....

This is a good point. He seems to be very focused on getting back to "his life" and making sure that everybody pays for the wrongs that they do. I think that he would be considered more of a coward if he stayed with the Indians..staying with an easy, safe, environment rather than staying true to his foundations.

[_Shannon_]

Okay- I just finished and I want to lodge my complaint that this book has got to have the worst denouement EVER.

I mean there is painstaking detail throughout the rest of the book and then the end seems to just suddenly happen and without any details. Grrrrrr.......I read all of that - I want a decent conclusion.:flare:

Rant aside--I did love this quote, "We have too much technological progress, life is too hectic, and our society has only one goal; to invent still more technological marvels to make life even easier and better. The craving for new scientific discovery breeds a hunger for greater comfort and the constant struggle to achieve it. All that kills the soul, kills compassion, understanding, nobility. It leaves no time for caring what happens to other people, least of all criminals."

[papayahed]

This is a good point. He seems to be very focused on getting back to "his life" and making sure that everybody pays for the wrongs that they do. I think that he would be considered more of a coward if he stayed with the Indians..staying with an easy, safe, environment rather than staying true to his foundations.



I get the point about leaving the Goajira, but it still seems weird that the reason he gave for leaving was his father. Up until this point he hasn't made too much mention of his father so it seems pretty random to mention him as a reason to leave. And what about his kids? Isn't there a responsibility to them?

[mickitaz]

precisely. I agree with you on that. I understand that he is trying to get his life back together. I commend him for his morals and sticking to them. But where is his sense of responsibilty to the children that he fathered? He seems at times to get off track, then all of the sudden...oops.. sorry I fogot, I am trying to escape.

[DapperDrake]

Yay! I finished it finally.

Yes he does seem quite irresponsible when it comes to his love life, first he leaves Lali and Zoraima pregnant - for what? to go off and seek revenge? (I think his father was just a cover story) - and does he ever go back and see them?. Then later He leaves the indian girl in Georgetown. He does try and defend himself at one point by basically saying it was their fault for coming on to him, but I think the very fact that he felt he needed to defend his actions shows his guilt.

Also I don't understand why, when enjoying freedom first with the Goajira then later at Georgetown, he feels the need to "escape" from these situations and put himself at risk again?
I guess he wanted true freedom, citizenship, etc a chance to live like a normal person but it still seems daft to me.

One thing I can't help wondering about though is how much of it is made up or embellished? as the translator's introduction says the basic facts are verifiable but not the whole lot. I understand Henri did originally submit the book for publication as a novel rather than an autobiography, so that, and the incredible nature of his experiances in the story does make me wonder. Although I can't point at any particular portion of the story and say that it doens't fit or that it seems embellished. The style is flowing and coherent... can you see anything out of place?

As A whole i'm not entirely sure what to make of the book, I do largely agree with the quoted assessment in the intorduction (I don't have it in front of me so I'm not sure who it was by) but I still didn't really like the book much, I had to push myself through the second half. I havent made up my mind wether to rate it average or good, I guess the only reason I would rate it average rather than good would be that its not to my taste rather than any quality of the book itself.

[frida_kahlo]

I am reading the english version translated by June P. Wilson and Walther B. Michaels. I have read almost half of it and I love the parts telling life in Guajira with Indian people.

[mickitaz]

Yes, that was the most interesting part so far. I noticed that Henri really didn't go much into detail about much else. Right now, I am on the part of the last cavale. Or so I assume. It was a good book, but you could almost sense the parts he was rushing to get through. Others, you could tell he took his time writing.

[mickitaz]

Okay, so I finished the book. I agree with Shannon, that the ending was flat. I have read other autobiographies of people that have endured great hardship and imprisonment. There is something missing in this book. Perhaps it was the lack of emotion, connectivity to returning to someone that was missed. In all fair an honesty, while he was imprisioned and witnessed a lot of brutality...for a prisoner, I don't feel that he was that badly treated. The soliatary confinement wasn't a vacation, but then again, it was not meant to be. I am really undecided on how I feel about this book overall.

[_Shannon_]

I think, reading the book in translation likely effects it's literary quality- as the translation is as much a cretion of the translator as it is the origial author. Not knowing any French- my guessis that some of the distanced feel to the story is a result of translation.

I rated it as good--because it is a book that I could see reommending to a wide variety of people. It is something I could get my best-seller bound mom to read...as well as my Henry James loving husband.

[mickitaz]

I think that you might be right, that in translation, a lot of meaning is lost. I read the introduction, and the editor indicated that he only did a literal translation. Perhaps that is where the meaning is lost. I am not sure. I have been reading other French author books this month, the only other one fishished was the Hunchback of Notre Dame. I came away with a better feeling after finished with that book. Maybe for me, it just is that I haven't read an autobiography in a while. I am not sure. I voted it as a good book as well. It certainly had its moments when it was interesting, and it was easy enough to read.

[_Shannon_]

I don't know that it's the meaning, per se which is lost--but the sense of depth and flow of the language. There are lots of people who are dedicated to a lifetime of translating Hugo--okay well maybe not "lots" but there are people out there whose life work is translating Hugo-becoming very well acquainted with his work and his mindset and idiomatic expression. It seems, to me, very likely might just be that Hugo was a more dynamic translation- you know- written by people for whom translation is a form of literature unto itself??

Or it could just be that Papillon was just kinda a little better than average book-and it has nothing to do with translating :)

The most recent autobiographical account I read was Gang Leader For a Day by Sudhir Venkatesh about his experience with the people in the Robert Taylor Homes in Chicago. It was not super well written- the story is fascinating and totally compelling--but clearly not a superior use of written language. But even that book had a more dynamic feel to the language used to describe the events, and so my hunch (lol! no pun intended) is that the flatness of Papillon is translation related.

[mickitaz]

hehe... I have read other autobiographies as well.. which told a much more compelling story. I hate to say it, but I don't really think that he suffered that much. Most of it was self inflicted. albeit he was put in prison wrongly in the first place. But the solitary confinements and the burns while he was on a cavale. That he did to himself. I don't know. I think overall, he was a very lucky man to have found so many good people along the way. I know me personally would have thought twice about helping him out. Then again, that age/time/location was a lot different then now.

[papayahed]

I just finished the book and have to agree somewhat with mickitaz, it doesn't seem like he suffered all that much. On one hand it wasn't like he was at hard labor the whole time but on the other hand it was a prison. I think this is a reflection on the passage of time between the events and writing about them, the bad things don't seem as bad and the good things seem even better.

[Pensive]

Have been quite busy lately, even forgot to visit this thread unfortunately. Now it's the end of the month when I have found this thread plus my copy of Papillon after much difficulty. It seems to be of not more than 300 pages. Somebody else here mentioned it consists of more than 500 pages. Is it so? Or can be the difference in the length of pages...

[DapperDrake]

my copy is about 550 pages but the font is medium sized, you could easily squeeze it onto 300 odd pages with denser script.
It is the same translation right? I think there's only one ?

[_Shannon_]

I know that there is more than one translation out there- I know that my copy was not the Patrick O'Brian translation. I don;t know who it was, but I know it wasn't him :)

I dunno I read it in about 4-5 days--whilst homeschooling and mom-ing 5 kiddos---so it's not that long of a read, though I had to really head-down-power-through a few middle parts. It's kind of like Hemingway without the gift Hemingway has for pacing. It didn't require the total concentration of like Faulkner or Proust or James

[mickitaz]

I read the book in about a week and a half. I agree with you Shannon, there were parts where I barrelled through, feeling like I just had to get through these pages til the story got more interesting. I thought it was more along the lines of his style of writing. Maybe those were the sections he didn't really want to touch on, but for reasons still unbeknownst to me, felt they were necessary to his success.

[Pensive]

Well, mine is the Patrick O'Brian translation. So far have only read a few pages, not bad.