White Nights

[Dori]

Has anyone read Dostoevsky's "White Nights"? I noticed there wasn't a sub-forum devoted to its discussion, so I took it upon myself to start a topic in which we could, perhaps, discuss this intriguing story.

Any takers? Feel free to ask anything!

(For those who haven't read the story, it is rather short and could be finished in a single sitting.)

[bazarov]

White Nights? Another quite depressing Dostoevsky's story.
I can ask you anything???
How can Nastyenka be so......stupid, unreal or whatever you like??? Exactly one day more has passed of one year and she's already crying? Why did she said to Him( we don't know he's name so I will call him He) not to fall in love in her on their first meeting, like that's a normal male reaction on her; although she admitted she's spending her time with her granny.
From a male aspect, He is really greatly described. :D

[Dori]

White Nights? Another quite depressing Dostoevsky's story.
I can ask you anything???
How can Nastyenka be so......stupid, unreal or whatever you like??? Exactly one day more has passed of one year and she's already crying? Why did she said to Him( we don't know he's name so I will call him He) not to fall in love in her on their first meeting, like that's a normal male reaction on her; although she admitted she's spending her time with her granny.
From a male aspect, He is really greatly described. :D

I completely agree with you---especially on that last bit :D .

[Spoiler Alert!] In her letter, Nastyenka wrote:

"Don't blame me, for I have not changed to you in the least. I told you that I would love you, I love you now, I more than love you. Oh, my God! If only I could love you both at once! Oh, if only you were he!
"God knows what I would do for you now! I know that you are sad and dreary. I have wounded you, but you know when one loves a wrong is soon forgotten. And you love me."

Then she writes:

"Oh, love me, do not forsake me, because I love you so at this moment, because I am worthy of your love, because I will deserve it...my dear!"

This last sentence is interesting. Nastyenka, obviously a very emotionally-driven woman, thinks she "is worthy of [his] love" when she had left the dreamer "utterly crushed" the night before. Perhaps she should think before she acts. Upon finishing the story, I commiserated with the dreamer and nearly abhorred Nastyenka.

Just one more thing for now: in the Second Night, Nastyenka, after listening to the dreamer tell her his history, she remarks, "Listen. You describe it all splendidly, but couldn't you describe it a little less splendidly? You talk as though you were reading it out of a book." I couldn't resist the temptation to question this comment when I first read it. What's your opinion of this comment? Does she like dull stories? :D

[bazarov]

This last sentence is interesting. Nastyenka, obviously a very emotionally-driven woman, thinks she "is worthy of [his] love" when she had left the dreamer "utterly crushed" the night before. Perhaps she should think before she acts. Upon finishing the story, I commiserated with the dreamer and nearly abhorred Nastyenka.

I really don't understand how could she be worthy of his love. OK, she did said ''don't fall in love'' so it's not her fault, but then she could say ''please forgive me and forget me!''; in this way she's just making Him more miserable.



Just one more thing for now: in the Second Night, Nastyenka, after listening to the dreamer tell her his history, she remarks, "Listen. You describe it all splendidly, but couldn't you describe it a little less splendidly? You talk as though you were reading it out of a book." I couldn't resist the temptation to question this comment when I first read it. What's your opinion of this comment? Does she like dull stories? :D

I think she doesn't, her thoughts weren't so deep. He was a dreamer, he thought about those things 24 hours a day, so he probably went through that monologue thousand times in his head and then he finally get a chance to say it loud and clear! That probably created some great feelings in his soul; which he obviously couldn't understand.

[Dori]

I bought the Barnes and Noble Classics edition (titled, Notes from Underground, The Double, and Other Stories) and one great thing about this edition, along with the introduction and notes, are the questions that are included at the end. Perhaps we could answer a couple of them:

1) There are "family resemblances" among the women in these stories. First, summarize the resemblances. Second, evaluate them: Do they denigrate or elevate women?

2) The male protagonist of these stories suffer from extreme self-consciousness (for starters). Does Dostoevsky provide or at least imply historical reasons for the malign form of this state of mind?

I'm sure these questions apply more to the other stories in my edition, but I think these apply to this story, even if only a little. These are questions that I am going to need a little bit more time to answer (I must admit, I'm new to Dostoevsky and his ideas), but I thought I might post them in order to perhaps fuel the discussion a bit (and hopefully attract more people to this topic).

Our discussion won't get very far if I find myself agreeing with you, Bazarov, on nearly everything :) . Does anyone else have a different opinion of Nastyenka?

[Bumbeli]

I don't think White Nights is just "another depressing story", for me it provided great hope during one of my darkest hours. This is probably the reason why I value this story so much and I have a hard time reading it again, as it reminds me of not-so funny stuff I've gone through.
I don't think it's about Nastyenka being worthy to be loved, cause one can't doubt that the dreamer deserves better.
What I found very impressive is the way he deals with her leaving him and his house of cards falling apart. Like one said earlier, he probably pictured everything a dozen times in his mind, said every word, thought about all her possible reactions, but in the end he doesn't really let it get to him.
I don't know the apropriate english translation, but he says something like "One hour of complete happiness, enough for a whole lifetime" (it's just a simple translation from german). This sentence sums up everything one can hope for. As far as I can remember he isn't devastated, he's not angry or anything similar, he is just happy he was able to spend his time with her, love her, and for atleast one hour, have the feeling of her loving him back.

[Dori]

I don't think White Nights is just "another depressing story", for me it provided great hope during one of my darkest hours. This is probably the reason why I value this story so much and I have a hard time reading it again, as it reminds me of not-so funny stuff I've gone through.
I don't think it's about Nastyenka being worthy to be loved, cause one can't doubt that the dreamer deserves better.
What I found very impressive is the way he deals with her leaving him and his house of cards falling apart. Like one said earlier, he probably pictured everything a dozen times in his mind, said every word, thought about all her possible reactions, but in the end he doesn't really let it get to him.
I don't know the apropriate english translation, but he says something like "One hour of complete happiness, enough for a whole lifetime" (it's just a simple translation from german). This sentence sums up everything one can hope for. As far as I can remember he isn't devastated, he's not angry or anything similar, he is just happy he was able to spend his time with her, love her, and for atleast one hour, have the feeling of her loving him back.

Constance Garnett's translation reads, "My God, a whole moment of happiness! Is that too little for the whole of a man's life?"

As far as I can tell, he wasn't particularly devastated at the outcome of the ordeal, as is evident in the following quotation:


But to imagine that I should bear you a grudge, Nastenka! That I should cast a dark cloud over your serene, untroubled happiness; that by my bitter reproaches I should cause distress to your heart, should poison it with secret remorse and should force it to throb with anguish at the moment of bliss; that I should crush a single one of those tender blossoms which you have twined in your dark tresses when you go with him to the altar . . . Oh never, never! May your sky be clear, may your sweet smile be bright and untroubled, and may you be blessed for that moment of blissful happiness which you gave one another, lonely and grateful heart!

I still don't like Nastenka. :D

[Epistemophile]

Is the text of the story available online? I can't seem to find it.

[NikolaiI]

http://librivox.org/white-nights-by-fyodor-dostoevsky/

Has the whole book in audio in Russian... I just downloaded it but I don't speak Russian. I'm looking for the text.

http://www.geocities.com/diwakerr/whitenights.html

This has the text although it's not showing formatted well on my CPU.

[katamala]

Hello,

I'm a little confused by the plot of the story. Can anyone help me identify the elements of the plot in this story? I have to write an essay, but since my language divides plot in three parts, I'm having a hard differentiating between rising action and climax, and falling action and denouement.

[Theunderground]

Read it recently,i think Dostoevsky is really showing the psychology of people who isolate themsleves far too much and how it turns them into unreal 'dreamers',lacking real social skills. conversely,it also shows that people 'in love' romantically say things through excess emotion which they cant back up later. (especially those inexeperienced or expecting love to redeem their whole life.)
As wittgenstein says 'love is not a feeling,love is an action,love is put to the test'.

[togre]

I just read White Nights and (I know this is terrible), but my first thought was "Friend Zone!"

Seriously, he wants to love her as a woman and she wants to love him as a brother. It really is an interesting theme. Can you think of any other literature that explores it? Vanity Fair, maybe?

[Endomae]

It's been sort of a long time since I read this one, but I remember disliking the main character from the beginning, although I can't really explain why. He seems to me like the other side of the coin whose face is best represented by the men of The Double or Notes from Underground. But really, just speaking from memory here.
I do remember it was written very beautifully, in a way which didn't seem entirely typical of Our Most Beloved Obsessive Misanthrope. Perhaps an influence of some of gogol's false inocence? I'm at a loss at how to rate this.