D.H. Lawrence and his domain of expression

[blazeofglory]

I do not know why I get emotionally highly swayed when I read some English poems. I am a student of English literature and then when I was students reading poems were tedious and tiresome efforts. I read them for I had pass the exam.

Now I am no longer a student and nor a teacher of literature and now i enjoy reading much particularly poems.

Today I read a poem by D.H. Lawrence. I was acquainted with his ideas through his two novels Sons and Lovers and Women in love and I have but now only faint memories of what I read then.

Today the poem I read him is titled Piano. It starts with a line:

Softly, in the dust, a woman is singing to me;
Taking me back down the vistas of years, till I see
A child sitting under the piano, in the boom of the tingling strings
and pressing the small, poised feet of a mother who smiles as she sings.

That he was a perfect artist is very much evident here.

He was a writer who distasted things of civilization,for civilization has taken man away from closeness with nature, and he is uprooted with his roots in the air.

Imagine you were in a cave with your family members and playing with antelopes and little monkeys. The state of mind when you are close to things of nature and now with your technological sophistications.

We can not live that now, for going to nature is a course that goes reversally.
Yet visiting them through flights of imagination is a thing indeed of fascination.

I relive my days of babyhood when I was somewhere in the lap of some mountain.

[Virgil]

Quite true about D.H. Lawrence, Blaze. You might have a few ideas in common with him. He did believe in primitivism, although I'm not sure he would describe it as such.

[Janine]

Blaze, This poem is about DHL's mother and his memory of sitting below the piano and listening to her play. I love this poem and have read it many times. I have similar memories of our piano and my mother playing. Yes, Lawrence very exquisitely takes us back to a time of simplicity and of love and closeness in this poem...things that we all often lose sight of in this fast-paced world we live in.

[blazeofglory]

Blaze, This poem is about DHL's mother and his memory of sitting below the piano and listening to her play. I love this poem and have read it many times. I have similar memories of our piano and my mother playing. Yes, Lawrence very exquisitely takes us back to a time of simplicity and of love and closeness in this poem...things that we all often lose sight of in this fast-paced world we live in.

I think he is more relevant in the context of modern life. We are more mechanized now more than ever before. Reading him is something that transport us to a world that is more pastoral, rustic and we will be close to nature.

We live with more and more complexities, and one of the reasons is we are more obsessed with technologies, and little of time for what is in store for us in nature.

[Janine]

I think he is more relevant in the context of modern life. We are more mechanized now more than ever before. Reading him is something that transport us to a world that is more pastoral, rustic and we will be close to nature.

We live with more and more complexities, and one of the reasons is we are more obsessed with technologies, and little of time for what is in store for us in nature.

blaze, I do agree with this. It might be one aspect of Lawrence's writing that highly attracts me. I can escape back into his world where one is closer to nature and intune with the natutal rhythms of life. We do live in a highly technoligical world (yes, or we would not be writing away on here, if not for it). Some of us escape to vacation spots to renew our closeness to the elements. However, in everyday existence we do often loose sight of the true meaning of things and of the natural world around us. There are so many distractions. For me reading Lawrence takes me back to that rustic time but then in his later writings he gets a little too extreme in his ideas and yet still I do wonder - are we living as we should be poluting our beautiful world. In many ways Lawrence was quite prophetic I believe and we have ravaged the earth and it's natural resources. Of course, all of this opens a whole huge other discussion and as they say 'a whole can of worms'. Afterall, we don't want to give up modern conveniences really or do without modern forms of transportation, etc. An irony always exists between technology and nature.

[blazeofglory]

blaze, I do agree with this. It might be one aspect of Lawrence's writing that highly attracts me. I can escape back into his world where one is closer to nature and intune with the natutal rhythms of life. We do live in a highly technoligical world (yes, or we would not be writing away on here, if not for it). Some of us escape to vacation spots to renew our closeness to the elements. However, in everyday existence we do often loose sight of the true meaning of things and of the natural world around us. There are so many distractions. For me reading Lawrence takes me back to that rustic time but then in his later writings he gets a little too extreme in his ideas and yet still I do wonder - are we living as we should be poluting our beautiful world. In many ways Lawrence was quite prophetic I believe and we have ravaged the earth and it's natural resources. Of course, all of this opens a whole huge other discussion and as they say 'a whole can of worms'. Afterall, we don't want to give up modern conveniences really or do without modern forms of transportation, etc. An irony always exists between technology and nature.

I wholeheartedly subscribe to this view, without a tinge of doubt at all. That D.H. Lawrence was a prophet is a fact. Deep down all I feel is that we should be in touch with nature. I make a fair comparison in my own life between two different, in fact diverse life styles, one as a little boy working on my father's farm in a small and remote village in Nepal, and where people still live under a veil of unruffled serenity and quietness. I had hard times indeed, and no things of luxuries then. I walked for hours to go to school. My vacation was spent on farms with rustic people , speaking their language and sharing their woes and joys.

Now I am a modern man, work for a modern bank and attend parties and go restaurants. I communicate in Englsih and read books in English.I live lavishly.

Am I happier than before when I was a little close to poeverty. Happiness is something we can not measure in terms of material comforts. Definitely my egos swelled and my arrogance mounted and I became a man of respect and honor indeed, yet happiness, I believe lies more with those rustic people I left in my village.

I think this comparison will give a little idea of what D.L.Lawrence had in mind.

[Janine]

Well, blaze - happiness is not a something we find, but something we make for ourselves. It is within us. There is much truth about the people being happy who don't expect so much from life, but I don't believe I would want to retreat back to such a difficult lifestyle. I do however, think we are all very caught up in the modern world and forget to 'smell the roses' a little too often. We don't find it easy to relax or enjoy the good things in life - many of these entail a closeness to nature and it's beauty. I know I have always felt more at peace in the mountains or by the sea. My son just went on a mountain biking excursion to Arizona and saw a lot of nature, marvelous things in a remote area of the US. In many ways he seemed so transformed when I talked to him on his arrival home. His eyes had been opened to the beauty that still exists in this great world of ours. However, these places are diminishing and it is sad. They do need protection.
I think you can be all the things say you are in your own personal life and still connect with the core of man and of nature. I am probably poorer now, than when I had a good paying job and was more 'successful', but I often say I was missing out then and now I have a ton of friends and find my wealth lies in them and my interests. I live in a very industrial area and sometimes I truly abhor the ugliness of it, and what man has done to it, but then I seek out places I can again renew my spiritual feel for nature and the elements. Lawrence traveled extensively in his life, but actually he never did find true satisfaction or a permanent place of residence...perhaps closest he came was in New Mexico, and he later longed to go back there. I still have to think that his travels would not have been possible, had it not been for modern conveniences such as travel by train or boat or car. If you want to read some very interesting work by Lawrence (prose) do read his travel books - they come in a set - "D,H.Lawrence and Italy". The first is "Twilight in Italy", then "Sea and Sardina" and last is "Etruscan Places" - all three are fascinating and give us a realistic view or window into the true nature of the man, Lawrence, or Lorenzo, as he was referred to while in Italy. I don't think you will regret the reading and the journey it takes one on. I felt as though I accompanied the great author by his side across the roads and byways of these places and it was a wonderful mental experience. It will transport you to another time and place.

[blazeofglory]

Well, blaze - happiness is not a something we find, but something we make for ourselves. It is within us. There is much truth about the people being happy who don't expect so much from life, but I don't believe I would want to retreat back to such a difficult lifestyle. I do however, think we are all very caught up in the modern world and forget to 'smell the roses' a little too often. We don't find it easy to relax or enjoy the good things in life - many of these entail a closeness to nature and it's beauty. I know I have always felt more at peace in the mountains or by the sea. My son just went on a mountain biking excursion to Arizona and saw a lot of nature, marvelous things in a remote area of the US. In many ways he seemed so transformed when I talked to him on his arrival home. His eyes had been opened to the beauty that still exists in this great world of ours. However, these places are diminishing and it is sad. They do need protection.
I think you can be all the things say you are in your own personal life and still connect with the core of man and of nature. I am probably poorer now, than when I had a good paying job and was more 'successful', but I often say I was missing out then and now I have a ton of friends and find my wealth lies in them and my interests. I live in a very industrial area and sometimes I truly abhor the ugliness of it, and what man has done to it, but then I seek out places I can again renew my spiritual feel for nature and the elements. Lawrence traveled extensively in his life, but actually he never did find true satisfaction or a permanent place of residence...perhaps closest he came was in New Mexico, and he later longed to go back there. I still have to think that his travels would not have been possible, had it not been for modern conveniences such as travel by train or boat or car. If you want to read some very interesting work by Lawrence (prose) do read his travel books - they come in a set - "D,H.Lawrence and Italy". The first is "Twilight in Italy", then "Sea and Sardina" and last is "Etruscan Places" - all three are fascinating and give us a realistic view or window into the true nature of the man, Lawrence, or Lorenzo, as he was referred to while in Italy. I don't think you will regret the reading and the journey it takes one on. I felt as though I accompanied the great author by his side across the roads and byways of these places and it was a wonderful mental experience. It will transport you to another time and place.

Yes, when we are close to nature we will feel really different. To be in touch with in nature is to value things in nature too. We can not imagine of going back to the wilderness once again for there are many difficulties there indeed.

Yet all we can do is to take a liking to things in nature, or to have a mindset very sensitive to things of nature, to be kind to all natural beings, even to a street dog. I love animals. Everyday I attend flocks of sparrows and pigeons flooding on my veranda and offer them handfuls of grains to them.

I love animals, birds, insects, I do not like to kill even mice in point of fact. I have compassion not only for animal beings even for plants also. I feel there is life in plants . I do not like to pluck flowers, even though I often have to do as I am a Hindu by birth and the very tradition demands it of me.

I feel kind of compassion for all living beings.

Nature in raw is what moves me, mountains, rivers, farms and peasants, planting and harvesting are things that appeal to me.

[Janine]

Yes, when we are close to nature we will feel really different. To be in touch with in nature is to value things in nature too. We can not imagine of going back to the wilderness once again for there are many difficulties there indeed.

Yet all we can do is to take a liking to things in nature, or to have a mindset very sensitive to things of nature, to be kind to all natural beings, even to a street dog. I love animals. Everyday I attend flocks of sparrows and pigeons flooding on my veranda and offer them handfuls of grains to them.

I love animals, birds, insects, I do not like to kill even mice in point of fact. I have compassion not only for animal beings even for plants also. I feel there is life in plants . I do not like to pluck flowers, even though I often have to do as I am a Hindu by birth and the very tradition demands it of me.

I feel kind of compassion for all living beings.

Nature in raw is what moves me, mountains, rivers, farms and peasants, planting and harvesting are things that appeal to me.

Blaze, Yes, I agree whole-heartedly about feeling different when close to nature. You expressed this all so well. Nature does transform us and take us back to a more natural state of being and communing with nature and animals is a wonderful thing and something we should each cherish. It is nice to keep in touch this way. I live by a lake with much wildlife and some have become quite close to all the residents around this lake. I even had a sort of pet goose at one time. I say 'sort of' because he was like a pet following me around and squaking and wanting attention and yet he lived freely coming and going as he pleased on the lake. He even liked me to stroke his long silky back and feathers and he was huge and so funny at times. I loved him dearly; unfortunately he was killed one day by stray dogs running wild. He was a big white goose, who I had named Radar, since he seemed to have 'hidden radar' when anyone would exit the house. He bridged the gap between the wild kingdom of animals and man, in my eyes. We seemed to have a perfect understanding between us. Geese are extremely smart animals. If you have a chance do watch "Winged Migration" - it is a wonderful film!

All that you mentioned in your last paragraph moves me, also, even beyond words. You should try to write about these things that truly touch your life. We all need to keep in contact with these natural elements - they provide much solace to our weary souls in this fast-paced world.

[blazeofglory]

Blaze, Yes, I agree whole-heartedly about feeling different when close to nature. You expressed this all so well. Nature does transform us and take us back to a more natural state of being and communing with nature and animals is a wonderful thing and something we should each cherish. It is nice to keep in touch this way. I live by a lake with much wildlife and some have become quite close to all the residents around this lake. I even had a sort of pet goose at one time. I say 'sort of' because he was like a pet following me around and squaking and wanting attention and yet he lived freely coming and going as he pleased on the lake. He even liked me to stroke his long silky back and feathers and he was huge and so funny at times. I loved him dearly; unfortunately he was killed one day by stray dogs running wild. He was a big white goose, who I had named Radar, since he seemed to have 'hidden radar' when anyone would exit the house. He bridged the gap between the wild kingdom of animals and man, in my eyes. We seemed to have a perfect understanding between us. Geese are extremely smart animals. If you have a chance do watch "Winged Migration" - it is a wonderful film!

All that you mentioned in your last paragraph moves me, also, even beyond words. You should try to write about these things that truly touch your life. We all need to keep in contact with these natural elements - they provide much solace to our weary souls in this fast-paced world.

You must be a highly sensitive man and I believe everything of nature moves you. Not only animals and birds even plants too.

Wildness has always moved me since my babyhood. I remember how I used to nurse puppies in my country house, those were stray dogs, but I did not bother. I like stray dogs very much.

In fact I was a village boy. I grew up in a setting that was very primitive unlike what we nowadays. We had farms, I still do in fact, and I used to work on them with my parents using primitive implements. We had oxen, cows, bufallows and I loved them very deeply. My early childhood was spent like that.

Even now I love animals and birds. Every day flocks of birds, mainly pigeons and sparrows come to my veranda and I throw handfuls of grains and indeed to watch them gobbling the grains is really a thing of interest.

I do not like to kill even insects, and not even rats, but at times the circumstance demands and I have to use insecticides to kill some insects that damage things.
Reading your passions for animals and how attached you were to the goose gives me the feeling that you are a very sensitive person. For without being sensitive you can not have the compassion you have expressed in your posting.

But now with this growing urbanization we are indeed getting farther and farther from nature. This is more manifest we are in developed nations. I live in Nepal. The majority in Nepal live with a primitive life style and comparatively we have to be always in contact with animals and birds considering our livelihood.

[Janine]

You must be a highly sensitive man and I believe everything of nature moves you. Not only animals and birds even plants too.

Wildness has always moved me since my babyhood. I remember how I used to nurse puppies in my country house, those were stray dogs, but I did not bother. I like stray dogs very much.

In fact I was a village boy. I grew up in a setting that was very primitive unlike what we nowadays. We had farms, I still do in fact, and I used to work on them with my parents using primitive implements. We had oxen, cows, bufallows and I loved them very deeply. My early childhood was spent like that.

Even now I love animals and birds. Every day flocks of birds, mainly pigeons and sparrows come to my veranda and I throw handfuls of grains and indeed to watch them gobbling the grains is really a thing of interest.

I do not like to kill even insects, and not even rats, but at times the circumstance demands and I have to use insecticides to kill some insects that damage things.
Reading your passions for animals and how attached you were to the goose gives me the feeling that you are a very sensitive person. For without being sensitive you can not have the compassion you have expressed in your posting.

But now with this growing urbanization we are indeed getting farther and farther from nature. This is more manifest we are in developed nations. I live in Nepal. The majority in Nepal live with a primitive life style and comparatively we have to be always in contact with animals and birds considering our livelihood.

Hi Blaze, Well, first off, sorry to correct you, but I am a woman and yes, I am highly sensitive...sometimes too much so for my own good. This is probably why I love Lawrence's work so much for it's keen sensitivity and fluidly beautiful writing. I can take but one element or passage and read it over and over again and still it strikes me deeply right to the soul….it sometimes seems to fragile and so intimate. I read Lawrence’s first published book he wrote when very young -"The White Peacock" and there are some wonderful passages in this book that I will quote for you. I keep going back to 2 in particular about a birds nest in the field, but I cannot seem to locate that presently in my file or my book. Therefore, I will find that and quote for you later. You will love this quote, loving birds so much and nature and man’s connections to nature.
For now, I found these two passages – they appear in different sections of the novel.


I remember a day when the breast of the hills was heaving in a last quick waking sigh, and the blue eyes of the waters opened bright. Across the infinite skies of March great rounded masses of cloud sailed stately all day, domed with a white radiance, softened with faint, fleeting shadows as if companies of angels were gently sweeping past; adorned with resting, silken shadows like those of a full white breast. All day the clouds had moved on to their vast destination, and I had clung to the earth yearning and impatient. I took a brush and tried to paint them, then I raged at myself. I wished that in all the wild valley where cloud shadows were traveling like pilgrims, something would call me forth from my rooted loneliness, Through all the grandeur of the white and blue day, the poised cloud masses swung their slow flight, and left me unnoticed.

Then another:


It seemed almost as if, at home, I might lift my hand to the ceiling of the valley, and touch my own beloved sky, whose familiar clouds came again and again to visit me, whose stars were constant to me, born when I was born, whose sun had been all my father to me. But now the skies were strange over my head, and Orion walked past me unnoticing, he who night after night had stood over the woods to spend with me a wonderful hour.

D.H.Lawrence “The White Peacock” (his first published novel)
This last quote may refer to the author’s own feelings, while working in London.

“The White Peacock” is a very pastoral novel and also quite autobiographical as is “Sons and Lovers”. Let us say it holds fragments of Lawrence’s youth and his young ideas just forming. You might like it very much, although it goes off, at times, on tangents and some under-developed Lawrencian ideas; otherwise I found it very enjoyable reading. Obvious influences from Thomas Hary and others, but I find there are some wonderful gems in this book that feel very original and are so characteristic of Lawrence’s keen observance of nature and man’s part in nature.

I will look for the passages on the bird nest – it is lovely and you will like it very much, I would imagine.

I am an artist, so that I find these passages very graphically perceived by Lawrence as a form of art. The birds are a delicate sketch of something very sensitive and fine, etched into the face of nature....and fragile and wondrous.


It is interesting that you live in Napal - in your country are some of the most spectacular mountains in the world. How fortune you are! I will want to hear more. How great to grow up on a farm and to be so closely connected to our amazing earth. I saw a film last night and the photography was so extraordinary – it was set in our Midwest during the Great Depression – called “Days of Heaven”. I saw a terrific documentary on the climbing of Mt. Everest and it was wonderous! Your childhood sounded great...what wonderful memories you must have of that pastoral time.

[blazeofglory]

Hi Blaze, Well, first off, sorry to correct you, but I am a woman and yes, I am highly sensitive...sometimes too much so for my own good. This is probably why I love Lawrence's work so much for it's keen sensitivity and fluidly beautiful writing. I can take but one element or passage and read it over and over again and still it strikes me deeply right to the soul….it sometimes seems to fragile and so intimate. I read Lawrence’s first published book he wrote when very young -"The White Peacock" and there are some wonderful passages in this book that I will quote for you. I keep going back to 2 in particular about a birds nest in the field, but I cannot seem to locate that presently in my file or my book. Therefore, I will find that and quote for you later. You will love this quote, loving birds so much and nature and man’s connections to nature.
For now, I found these two passages – they appear in different sections of the novel.



Then another:



D.H.Lawrence “The White Peacock” (his first published novel)
This last quote may refer to the author’s own feelings, while working in London.

“The White Peacock” is a very pastoral novel and also quite autobiographical as is “Sons and Lovers”. Let us say it holds fragments of Lawrence’s youth and his young ideas just forming. You might like it very much, although it goes off, at times, on tangents and some under-developed Lawrencian ideas; otherwise I found it very enjoyable reading. Obvious influences from Thomas Hary and others, but I find there are some wonderful gems in this book that feel very original and are so characteristic of Lawrence’s keen observance of nature and man’s part in nature.

I will look for the passages on the bird nest – it is lovely and you will like it very much, I would imagine.

I am an artist, so that I find these passages very graphically perceived by Lawrence as a form of art. The birds are a delicate sketch of something very sensitive and fine, etched into the face of nature....and fragile and wondrous.


It is interesting that you live in Napal - in your country are some of the most spectacular mountains in the world. How fortune you are! I will want to hear more. How great to grow up on a farm and to be so closely connected to our amazing earth. I saw a film last night and the photography was so extraordinary – it was set in our Midwest during the Great Depression – called “Days of Heaven”. I saw a terrific documentary on the climbing of Mt. Everest and it was wonderous! Your childhood sounded great...what wonderful memories you must have of that pastoral time.

Janine, first I want to thank you for expressing something about Nepal. After all Nepal is not just not mine, equally yours too, and indeed Nepal is a beautiful country considering of course its great mountains, rivers and lakes. What is really more beautiful is a mind that can see and appreciate a thing of beauty.

Nature is really beautiful, and you and me and the rest who inhabit this beautiful planet also beautiful too. Everything is nature. We are also things of nature, in fact we are nature too. How can we not be nature? How can we be different from what we see in nature.

I believe every thing is animate, for the earth too must be animate. Generally we hold the idea that the earth is inanimate. How can this earth be animate the one that births us. How can an inanimate birth an animate being?

I feel at times, and I do not know why,. maybe out of hypersensitivity or something else I feel even rocks are animate things, and the problem lies with us for we can not feel it.

The reason I like D.H.Lawrence is he so deeply and intensely writes about nature and when he writes about things of nature he permeates them. Or his poems are so vibrant with vital words I feel I am not reading words I am feeling, touching and smelling them. In deed some of his words smell of flowers and some words resonate the songs of birds.

I feel anybody who deeply and intensely reads Lawrence can understand or fathoms deeper truths about nature.

I am really elated you are so much sharing with me. I believe you are very sensitive to things you perceive. I strongly hold the believe that we are alive only when we can smell the fragrance of soil and hear the sound of silence in nature. That is what I believe Nirvana.

[Janine]

Janine, first I want to thank you for expressing something about Nepal. After all Nepal is not just not mine, equally yours too, and indeed Nepal is a beautiful country considering of course its great mountains, rivers and lakes. What is really more beautiful is a mind that can see and appreciate a thing of beauty.

Nature is really beautiful, and you and me and the rest who inhabit this beautiful planet also beautiful too. Everything is nature. We are also things of nature, in fact we are nature too. How can we not be nature? How can we be different from what we see in nature.

I believe every thing is animate, for the earth too must be animate. Generally we hold the idea that the earth is inanimate. How can this earth be animate the one that births us. How can an inanimate birth an animate being?

I feel at times, and I do not know why,. maybe out of hypersensitivity or something else I feel even rocks are animate things, and the problem lies with us for we can not feel it.

The reason I like D.H.Lawrence is he so deeply and intensely writes about nature and when he writes about things of nature he permeates them. Or his poems are so vibrant with vital words I feel I am not reading words I am feeling, touching and smelling them. In deed some of his words smell of flowers and some words resonate the songs of birds.

I feel anybody who deeply and intensely reads Lawrence can understand or fathoms deeper truths about nature.

I am really elated you are so much sharing with me. I believe you are very sensitive to things you perceive. I strongly hold the believe that we are alive only when we can smell the fragrance of soil and hear the sound of silence in nature. That is what I believe Nirvana.

Blaze, why of course, I am always interested in far away lands and places of great natural beauty. I do envy you that. It must be stunning and superb to live there close to nature. The Himalayas must be extraordinary to see. I can't even imagine such grandeur. I have only viewed them on film and Imax films are wonderful but not at all like the real thing I am sure. I am a mental traveler.

Yes, I agree - I think this also about 'deeper truths' concerning nature and Lawrence's writing - he is so sensitive to it. It is always nice and marvelous to share with others your strong feelings of these writings. I love Lawrence's writings so much and I thrill to read his letters and his travel books intersted me greatly. They all seem to be so personal and so intimate. I felt I could reach out and touch the true man from those letters. Some actually brought tears to my eyes and some gave me goose bumps, can you believe it?

Blaze, I wonder if you are not the reincarnation of Lawrence himself the way you speak of nature, although in his later works Lawrence did not shun the killing and brutality of animals, which as later surprised me entirely. He seemed to think that this was also a part of the ways of nature and also of man's darker more violent nature that sometimes surfaces.

I agree completely with your last statements. I, too, feel that is when we are truly alive. I think had you read "Women in Love" - have you? you would see how Rupert discovers this very thing and a way back to his true self.

Blaze, I wanted to let you know that we will be starting up a thread "Sons and Lovers" to discuss the book read for October. This is independent of the monthly book read on Lit Net. I may be using the same thread and continuing since we did not truly discuss the book plot in that thread prior to this. Now we will begin again from the start of the book. I hope you can come and join us in the discussion group. I know you will have much to add to the group - so far we have about 6 or more possible participants. I emailed quite a number of people tonight about it. Look for the thread tomorrow - just put in search Sons and Lovers and it should appear.
Hope to see you then. Janine

[blazeofglory]

Blaze, why of course, I am always interested in far away lands and places of great natural beauty. I do envy you that. It must be stunning and superb to live there close to nature. The Himalayas must be extraordinary to see. I can't even imagine such grandeur. I have only viewed them on film and Imax films are wonderful but not at all like the real thing I am sure. I am a mental traveler.

Yes, I agree - I think this also about 'deeper truths' concerning nature and Lawrence's writing - he is so sensitive to it. It is always nice and marvelous to share with others your strong feelings of these writings. I love Lawrence's writings so much and I thrill to read his letters and his travel books intersted me greatly. They all seem to be so personal and so intimate. I felt I could reach out and touch the true man from those letters. Some actually brought tears to my eyes and some gave me goose bumps, can you believe it?

Blaze, I wonder if you are not the reincarnation of Lawrence himself the way you speak of nature, although in his later works Lawrence did not shun the killing and brutality of animals, which as later surprised me entirely. He seemed to think that this was also a part of the ways of nature and also of man's darker more violent nature that sometimes surfaces.

I agree completely with your last statements. I, too, feel that is when we are truly alive. I think had you read "Women in Love" - have you? you would see how Rupert discovers this very thing and a way back to his true self.

Blaze, I wanted to let you know that we will be starting up a thread "Sons and Lovers" to discuss the book read for October. This is independent of the monthly book read on Lit Net. I may be using the same thread and continuing since we did not truly discuss the book plot in that thread prior to this. Now we will begin again from the start of the book. I hope you can come and join us in the discussion group. I know you will have much to add to the group - so far we have about 6 or more possible participants. I emailed quite a number of people tonight about it. Look for the thread tomorrow - just put in search Sons and Lovers and it should appear.
Hope to see you then. Janine

First I want to thank you for giving me an opportunity to join in the discussion group. Really sharing ideas this way will intensify our sensibility indeed.
Janine, all I feel is our sensibility is weakening and it is all our sensibility that matters and really speaking all things of beauty in nature is reflections but of one thing. All you see outside are sheer shadows of one thing, and if that thing is ugly the rest of others turn out to be ugly. This is a mind. A beautiful mind radiates rays of beauty, and things of nature can never be beautiful if we can not have our sensibility.

Janine, you may find my self little detracting. maybe deviating our original discussion about Lawrence.

Lawrence is always part of me, and indeed his ideas run through my vein.
But what I want to accentuate is nature is a plain surface only and reflects but images of us only.

Again I put stress on sensibilities. Today modern people can not be happy with being close with nature all we need to enhance is sensibilty.

Everyday flocks of pigeons and sparrows flood my veranda and I throw handfuls of grains and I watch them picking every grain. Is this not a thing of beauty. We must learn to love nature, everything of nature, every plant, every animal, and even to insects we must be sensitive if we love nature. Men and women are also nature equally as much as flowers and birds.

A beautiful mind always outshines every other beauty. That is what I believe in. I do not know whether or not you subscribe to my idea.





Janine, that is a b

[Janine]

First I want to thank you for giving me an opportunity to join in the discussion group. Really sharing ideas this way will intensify our sensibility indeed.
Janine, all I feel is our sensibility is weakening and it is all our sensibility that matters and really speaking all things of beauty in nature is reflections but of one thing. All you see outside are sheer shadows of one thing, and if that thing is ugly the rest of others turn out to be ugly. This is a mind. A beautiful mind radiates rays of beauty, and things of nature can never be beautiful if we can not have our sensibility.

Janine, you may find my self little detracting. maybe deviating our original discussion about Lawrence.

Lawrence is always part of me, and indeed his ideas run through my vein.
But what I want to accentuate is nature is a plain surface only and reflects but images of us only.

Again I put stress on sensibilities. Today modern people can not be happy with being close with nature all we need to enhance is sensibilty.

Everyday flocks of pigeons and sparrows flood my veranda and I throw handfuls of grains and I watch them picking every grain. Is this not a thing of beauty. We must learn to love nature, everything of nature, every plant, every animal, and even to insects we must be sensitive if we love nature. Men and women are also nature equally as much as flowers and birds.

A beautiful mind always outshines every other beauty. That is what I believe in. I do not know whether or not you subscribe to my idea.





Janine, that is a b



blaze, generally, I do subscribe to you ideas and thoughts here in these threads. Yes, Lawrence would agree that man is part of the universe and of the earth and nature. Nature is these things. A beautiful mind is one that is alive always and sees because this mind and person takes the time to look and preceive the beauty around us. Some people walk about with blinders on, even if they are in the midst of great beauty. The world can become numb to so many, but even in the shabbiest or the most mundane of environments one can seek out beauty in something - animals, birds, parks, etc. I live near very industrialised areas in the suburbs and I sometimes abhor the ugliness of certain places, near where I live. I then have to take the time to go seek out some place of solitude or nice scenery or a park that is quiet with trees and birds. It is hard in our modern everyday world. Ideally, I might like to live somewhere different at this stage in my life, but unfortunately, it can not happen because of financial restrictions, family ties, etc. I think I can relate to Lawrence's thoughts about industrialism and how he longed for things not to change, or to stay less mechanicalised, but this of course, is unrealistic. If it were not for these things and the way of life we have all adopted we would not be communicating like this via the internet. So you see there is never a simple solution to our connections with nature.

I hope that you can participate in the Lawrence readings and discussion groups. You seem to enjoy the poem about the piano and his mother and in the book, "Sons and Lovers", his mother is mentioned in conjunction with the piano, so you can see it is quite autobiographical and Lawrence was yearning for a simplier time in his life even in the late stages of it; yearning for that time of his childhood. You did deviate some from your original comments on the poem but this discussion has been enlightening. "Sons and Lovers" is a very sensitive and wonderful book. I am sure you will enjoy reading it. Lawrence truly did have a beautiful mind. His closeness to nature and his environment is evident even in the first chapter as someone has already pointed out in the "Sons and Lovers" thread.

[blazeofglory]

blaze, generally, I do subscribe to you ideas and thoughts here in these threads. Yes, Lawrence would agree that man is part of the universe and of the earth and nature. Nature is these things. A beautiful mind is one that is alive always and sees because this mind and person takes the time to look and preceive the beauty around us. Some people walk about with blinders on, even if they are in the midst of great beauty. The world can become numb to so many, but even in the shabbiest or the most mundane of environments one can seek out beauty in something - animals, birds, parks, etc. I live near very industrialised areas in the suburbs and I sometimes abhor the ugliness of certain places, near where I live. I then have to take the time to go seek out some place of solitude or nice scenery or a park that is quiet with trees and birds. It is hard in our modern everyday world. Ideally, I might like to live somewhere different at this stage in my life, but unfortunately, it can not happen because of financial restrictions, family ties, etc. I think I can relate to Lawrence's thoughts about industrialism and how he longed for things not to change, or to stay less mechanicalised, but this of course, is unrealistic. If it were not for these things and the way of life we have all adopted we would not be communicating like this via the internet. So you see there is never a simple solution to our connections with nature.

I hope that you can participate in the Lawrence readings and discussion groups. You seem to enjoy the poem about the piano and his mother and in the book, "Sons and Lovers", his mother is mentioned in conjunction with the piano, so you can see it is quite autobiographical and Lawrence was yearning for a simplier time in his life even in the late stages of it; yearning for that time of his childhood. You did deviate some from your original comments on the poem but this discussion has been enlightening. "Sons and Lovers" is a very sensitive and wonderful book. I am sure you will enjoy reading it. Lawrence truly did have a beautiful mind. His closeness to nature and his environment is evident even in the first chapter as someone has already pointed out in the "Sons and Lovers" thread.

Janine, reading your ideas, so open and direct gives the feeling that you live with no preoccupation. In fact the philosophy of my life is indeed to be as much simple as possible and to be open to all, irrespective of what I am, a man of rank, prestige and wealth. In fact all these are untruths, things they evaporate like mornings' dews with the approach of the sun. I am not a spiritual or religious type and I understand little of them.All I want to believe in simplicity. I have seen some persons who call themselves spiritualists, sit all day before a Sadhu or saint, and keep on praying. They do not work at all , particularly women in our part of the world wherein they live off what their husbands earn. They live lavishly on their husbands' sweat. And they say they are spiritual.

Janine, I may sound a bit arrogant communicating like this. I am not deviating from my original idea about Lawrence. Maybe the interpretation is different of course but I am not off the enter at all.

All I believe in is rusticity at the bottom of my heart. I love the way simple people live. I have already given a little glimpse of the kind of life I lived in my earlier part of life, just like a peasant, working on farms. I will think I am a spiritualist only if I can live on my sweat hundred percent the way peasants do. I am not living on my sweat totally.

I seem off the point for a while. Yet indirectly I am subscribing to the very idea of Lawrence. He in most of his books, stories, in poems, in novels subscribe to this idea, for live with simplicity is to be close to nature, and nature is bare, unclothed, undecorated, and is always open to all as it is with nothing to drape around it. We human beings wear robes of arrogance and self importance. We must unfold and of course unlearn ideas that delimit us. Let us unlearn everything we have learned, forget our ideas we pursued through strenuous studies, and let us try to be ourselves and nothing else.
It is indeed hard to be ourselves. We have our cultures, our taboos, our preoccupations and all the rest that imprison us.

To be close to nature, in fact to be close to nature means to be oneself too
is really a hard thing to do. This demands of us deprogramming who we are. Indeed we must come out of the incarceration of stock of ideas.

Nature is very deep, like the depth of the ocean and the profundity of the sky. Our civilization and understanding of it is very shallow and we can not plumb these secrets of nature.
Just seeing nature is not enough, but immersion in it is required. To be immersed in nature we must be bare of all these things of civilizations.

But difficulties creep in and we can not be close to nature at ease. But anyway it is indeed worth trying. Trying to be in close touch with nature. The touch of nature is something, beyond comparison and once we get it we become intoxicated. At that stage no duality exists, for we will be entwined and be at one with nature.