Don Quixote Reading Group

[Virgil]

I've started this thread because a few people, including myself, are reading it for the summer. I must say it reads very fast. I've read the first six chapters in no time, and I'm a fairly slow reader. I'm using the Edith Grossman translation which came out in 2003 to good reviews.

The famous literary critic Harold Bloom in the introdction says of this translation:
"Though there have been many valubale English translations of Don Quixote, I would commend Edith Grossman's version for the extraordinary high quality of her prose. The Knight and Sancho are so elequantly rendered by Grossman that the vitality of their characterization is more clearly conveyed than ever before."

Of course I will not be able to copy and past from the Grossman translation, since it is not on electronic format. So extended quotes I will have to copy off the Lit Net electronic book here: http://www.online-literature.com/cervantes/don_quixote/. If you don't mind reading off a computer, you can join us in reading it off of this site as well.

I hope people will join us. This will not be a rushed read and should last at least the summer, if not longer.

[grace86]

Yay Virgil you did it! :banana: You've started the thread!

I brought Don Quixote with me to work today. I am almost finished with the first part of the book. So I am quite a bit ahead but I am sure you will find it a pretty fast read mostly because it is so fantastic and funny.

There are some slower parts, and as some have mentioned, every once in a while you feel as if you've read an event before. But after reading Lawrence's writing style, I am sure you can get easily past it as I have.

I almost bought Grossman's translation when I needed to replace my copy. Instead I bought John Rutherford's, by Penguin, which I mentioned somewhere else on LitNet.

When I was looking at her translation on Amazon, some customer review put side by side her translation along with someone else's. Most people say good things about it, but that reviewer seemed to prefer other translations.

Personally, I didn't run into a translation I didn't like. It ended up I bought the one I did so I could buy Women in Love at the same time! :lol:

Virgil what did you think of Cervantes' prologue? I love how he refers to it as the child of his brain and how he describes that of course a parent loves a son no matter what he looks like. I've never heard an introduction like that before.

Oh I am also glad you are not rushing this read. Take time to enjoy it!

Come...come...come to the thread!!!

[Virgil]

Virgil what did you think of Cervantes' prologue? I love how he refers to it as the child of his brain and how he describes that of course a parent loves a son no matter what he looks like. I've never heard an introduction like that before.


Yes, that was neat.


Here's an interesting part from chapter four, right after he has been knighted.


He now came to a road branching in four directions, and
immediately he was reminded of those cross-roads where
knights-errant used to stop to consider which road they should take.
In imitation of them he halted for a while, and after having deeply
considered it, he gave Rocinante his head, submitting his own will
to that of his hack, who followed out his first intention, which was
to make straight for his own stable. After he had gone about two miles
Don Quixote perceived a large party of people, who, as afterwards
appeared, were some Toledo traders, on their way to buy silk at
Murcia. There were six of them coming along under their sunshades,
with four servants mounted, and three muleteers on foot. Scarcely
had Don Quixote descried them when the fancy possessed him that this
must be some new adventure; and to help him to imitate as far as he
could those passages he had read of in his books, here seemed to
come one made on purpose, which he resolved to attempt. So with a
lofty bearing and determination he fixed himself firmly in his
stirrups, got his lance ready, brought his buckler before his
breast, and planting himself in the middle of the road, stood
waiting the approach of these knights-errant, for such he now
considered and held them to be; and when they had come near enough
to see and hear, he exclaimed with a haughty gesture, "All the world
stand, unless all the world confess that in all the world there is
no maiden fairer than the Empress of La Mancha, the peerless
Dulcinea del Toboso."

The traders halted at the sound of this language and the sight of
the strange figure that uttered it, and from both figure and
language at once guessed the craze of their owner; they wished,
however, to learn quietly what was the object of this confession
that was demanded of them, and one of them, who was rather fond of a
joke and was very sharp-witted, said to him, "Sir Knight, we do not
know who this good lady is that you speak of; show her to us, for,
if she be of such beauty as you suggest, with all our hearts and
without any pressure we will confess the truth that is on your part
required of us."

"If I were to show her to you," replied Don Quixote, "what merit
would you have in confessing a truth so manifest? The essential
point is that without seeing her you must believe, confess, affirm,
swear, and defend it; else ye have to do with me in battle,
ill-conditioned, arrogant rabble that ye are; and come ye on, one by
one as the order of knighthood requires, or all together as is the
custom and vile usage of your breed, here do I bide and await you
relying on the justice of the cause I maintain."

"The essential point is that without seeing her you must believe, confess, affirm, swear, and defend it" - In many ways it seems that that is what Don Quixote is doing on all his adventures. Without seeing, just believing, he goes forth and encounters his illusions or beliefs.

[grace86]

"The essential point is that without seeing her you must believe, confess, affirm, swear, and defend it" - In many ways it seems that that is what Don Quixote is doing on all his adventures. Without seeing, just believing, he goes forth and encounters his illusions or beliefs.

Yes, pretty much all his adventures are based on that...based on his imagination and faith that they are real.

Has he made you laugh out loud yet? The bit with the inn and the two prostitutes is where I started laughing. Just picture him in his get up: several different pieces of family heirloom armour, and the face protection on his helmet made of something like cardboard and sheet metal!

Sometimes he will remind you of a little kid, and at other times you wonder that he is so brave that he must be crazy.

He brings up the same question that Hamlet does: Was Don Quixote really crazy? There is somewhere, I will look up the quote, where he pretty much tells everyone that he is in full posession of his faculties...but then that is at the beginning of the novel.

That is what happens when you read too much!

I would explain how he goes about his adventures and conversations on Lady Dulcinea, but I don't know if you'd want me to for fear of spoiling the stories. Let me know...because some of my thoughts expound from his conversations later with Sancho.

[mheartin]

Impeccable timing. I just started reading this today, and the story is really growing on me. I have the Penguin Classics Cohen translation that I picked up at a used bookstore about a week ago. I'm in the middle of chapter 2 when he gets to the inn.

[Virgil]

Has he made you laugh out loud yet? The bit with the inn and the two prostitutes is where I started laughing. Just picture him in his get up: several different pieces of family heirloom armour, and the face protection on his helmet made of something like cardboard and sheet metal!

Oh absolutely, perhaps in every chapter I at least have a giggle. It was funny how he was beat up by the crowd and then had to get carried back to his home on that guy's donkey. :D And wasn't he unable to take his helmet off at one point and had to sleep with it on. ;)


Sometimes he will remind you of a little kid, and at other times you wonder that he is so brave that he must be crazy.

He brings up the same question that Hamlet does: Was Don Quixote really crazy? There is somewhere, I will look up the quote, where he pretty much tells everyone that he is in full posession of his faculties...but then that is at the beginning of the novel.
I think it is clear he has lost touch with reality. Just look at the great quote I highlight below.


Impeccable timing. I just started reading this today, and the story is really growing on me. I have the Penguin Classics Cohen translation that I picked up at a used bookstore about a week ago. I'm in the middle of chapter 2 when he gets to the inn.
Oh good Heart. It would be nice to have you in on our discussion.


I must highlight this particular quote. I think at one time Riesa (here on lit net) had it as a signature. I adore this quote and perhaps I will use it as a signature for a time as well. It is from chapter VIII when He and Sancho first come to the windmills.


"It is clear to me," replied Don Quixote, "that thou are not well-versed in the matter of adventures: these are giants; and if thou art afraid, move aside and start to pray whilst I enter with them in fierce and unequal combat."

[NickAdams]

I'm in. I commited myself to a lot of the Litnet readings, but I'll squeeze it in- my own windmill.

[grace86]

Impeccable timing. I just started reading this today, and the story is really growing on me. I have the Penguin Classics Cohen translation that I picked up at a used bookstore about a week ago. I'm in the middle of chapter 2 when he gets to the inn.

I am so glad you are reading it! Please feel free to comment and join us. I too had the Penguin Cohen translation. I bought it as well at a used bookstore. But the glue binding was hard and it had a weak spot, and I accidentally cracked it :( So I put that translation away in favor of buying a new one.


Originally posted by Virgil
And wasn't he unable to take his helmet off at one point and had to sleep with it on.

He also had to have help drinking through a straw I think :lol:


Originally posted by Virgil
I think it is clear he has lost touch with reality. Just look at the great quote I highlight below.

I forgot to look up that quote I was mentioning earlier. It seems though, at some points throughout the novel that Quixote is in full possession of his faculties. He is commented about later, as being exceptionally smart, save for when he is trying to go through his adventures.

Sometimes I think though, that there are too many people who aid in helping him pull off his adventures by playing along.

I like that quote, Virgil, it is very good and significant of Quixote's character and the novel.

There is a broadway musical called Man of La Mancha that I just bought on Amazon, and there is one song titled "Man of La Mancha (I, Don Quixote)." The song relates to the quote I am thinking about. I will have to find the darn quote today and post it.

Richard Kiley played the voice of Don Quixote.

Going to get to my reading at lunch today. Hopefully I can finish sometime this month...but if I don't, oh well, I am not really hoping to rush...I think I'd miss out on a lot.


I'm in. I commited myself to a lot of the Litnet readings, but I'll squeeze it in- my own windmill.

Oh yay!!! How exciting I am glad you're in!

Virgil who else was joining us from the WIL thread? I cannot remember just now.

[grace86]

Found the quote I wanted to share Virgil. You already read it, it was early on.

Part One Chapter V


"I know who I am," retorted Don Quixote, "and I know that I can be not only all those whom I have mentioned, but every one of the Twelve Peers of France, and every one of the Nine Worthies as well, because all the deeds performed by them both singly and together will be exceeded by mine."

That first part really sticks to me. It is a wonderful quotation and I think it expresses the efforts of Cervantes and of Don Quixote. Throughout the book, he is who he wants to be, while he claims he knows who he is.

Just thought I'd share.

[Virgil]

There is a broadway musical called Man of La Mancha that I just bought on Amazon, and there is one song titled "Man of La Mancha (I, Don Quixote)." The song relates to the quote I am thinking about. I will have to find the darn quote today and post it.

Richard Kiley played the voice of Don Quixote.

I don't know if it is still on Broadway, but my wife and I saw the show a couple of years ago. Unfortunately I don't recall the actors. I always save the playbills from shows, and if I find that one I'll look up who was singing. It was a wonderful show. Of course they had to cut out a lot, but it did capture the essence of the book. The song "Impoosible Dream" is the big number that everyone waits for. Here are the lyrics:


"The Impossible Dream"
from MAN OF LA MANCHA (1972)
music by Mitch Leigh and lyrics by Joe Darion

To dream the impossible dream
To fight the unbeatable foe
To bear with unbearable sorrow
To run where the brave dare not go
To right the unrightable wrong
To love pure and chaste from afar
To try when your arms are too weary
To reach the unreachable star

This is my quest
To follow that star
No matter how hopeless
No matter how far

To fight for the right
Without question or pause
To be willing to march into Hell
For a heavenly cause

And I know if I'll only be true
To this glorious quest
That my heart will lie peaceful and calm
When I'm laid to my rest

And the world will be better for this
That one man, scorned and covered with scars
Still strove with his last ounce of courage
To reach the unreachable star



Virgil who else was joining us from the WIL thread? I cannot remember just now.
Manolia said she had read the book and Janine had expressed interest but I don't think she will. I don't recall anyone else.


Found the quote I wanted to share Virgil. You already read it, it was early on.

Part One Chapter V


"I know who I am," retorted Don Quixote, "and I know that I can be not only all those whom I have mentioned, but every one of the Twelve Peers of France, and every one of the Nine Worthies as well, because all the deeds performed by them both singly and together will be exceeded by mine."

That first part really sticks to me. It is a wonderful quotation and I think it expresses the efforts of Cervantes and of Don Quixote. Throughout the book, he is who he wants to be, while he claims he knows who he is.

Just thought I'd share.
Thanks. That is a great quote.

[grace86]

Virgil "The Impossible Dream" is one of the reasons I bought the album Man of La Mancha. My father loves that song and also "Dulcinea."

Haven't gotten much reading done lately, real life keeps me busy. How far along are you Virgil, Nick,, and mheartin?

[Virgil]

I haven't either Grace. Chapter 12 or so. I should pick up this week. :)

Funny thing happened to me on friday which made me think of Don Quixote. Eeek. I had a little accident at the gym that morning. I was on the treadmill running at a good pace, when my towel that I humg over the banister fell and i thought I could pick it up while running. It was mostly on the floor but spread a little over the track. But it wasn't caught in the track, just lying there. I bent to pick it up and I did, but I stumbled raising myself up and I fell and the track rolled me back off. If that wasn't stupid enough, when I bounced back up I decided I could jump back on the track while it was running. Well, it just flung me right off and I went flying even harder than the first time. I smacked pretty hard across the floor. Of course then everyone started coming over to help me. I felt fine. Lucky my head never hit anything. I landed on my back and I think my right elbow. I felt perfect when I got up, and even got back on the treadmill and finished my run. After though my elbow hurt. It's not broken but I can't lift anything with it. Oh stupid me. My wife had a good laugh when I told her the story when I got home. Stupid me. So windmills, treadmills, no difference. Just the impossible dream. :p

[grace86]

Oh Virgil that is funny! I am sorry your elbow hurts but I am glad you are okay. You went to retrieve the towel for your Lady Del Toboso right?! :D

Before I read the part where you were already comparing treadmill with windmill, I was already thinking about the similarity! I always wondered what would happen if I got back on a treadmill while it was going!

[Virgil]

Oh Virgil that is funny! I am sorry your elbow hurts but I am glad you are okay. You went to retrieve the towel for your Lady Del Toboso right?! :D

Before I read the part where you were already comparing treadmill with windmill, I was already thinking about the similarity! I always wondered what would happen if I got back on a treadmill while it was going!

Just be careful. Treadmills are dangerous. :crash:

[Janine]

Hello everyone! Just found my name in here - in Virgil's post.

No, Janine cannot read the book now. She is too, too busy with countless other readings/postings. Sad I know, I would love to participate, but as
Virgil says:

"I only have one brain and two hands!" :lol:


Just be careful. Treadmills are dangerous.

Really....? V and you were worried about me riding an old lady style bike!

I say treadmills can be lethal :( Next time, Virg, turn off the blasted machine before resuming.... :lol:

[grace86]

Hah Virgil I hope you have gotten a bit further in your reading. I am about ten pages away from beginning Part II, I think I need to deprive myself of a little bit of sleep and get some serious reading done.

Chapter twelve was a story about a lovesick shepherd right?

In my introduction it says that Cervantes had a soft spot for the pastoral life...I cannot remember why, and that Cervantes puts a lot of short little stories dealing with shepherds. The author said that most of these shepherd stories are unnecessary and that they drag, so he recommended skipping certain ones and claims that they would have no effect on the over all story.

You are going to have to read them Virgil and let me know what you think about them, because I for one have really enjoyed those stories and think they are some of the best.

Kind of makes me wonder if some of those pastoral stories are what's cut out in the abridged edition.

[Virgil]

I intend to read every chapter Grace. I'm up to fourteen now, which is not a lot of progress. But the weekend is coming. :D Actually I went back and read the Prologue and the opening poetry. I had skipped that originally so I could get into the swing of the book first. I think you had asked me about the Prologue once and I now that it sunk in I do find it rather odd. Cervantes portraying himself as simple minded writer being asked to lie by another devious person who has read many books. :lol: But I think there was a shepherd in a recent chapter, but I don't recall if it was twelve. I don't have the book with me at work. ;)

[grace86]

Hehe I have my book at work so when lunch break comes around (or a boring moment) I have the chance to read.

The introduction is rather interesting. He had just finished Don Quixote, and to him the hard part was coming up with the introduction. He mentioned that other authors put words of wisdom and quoted old philosophers who had famous advice, or some such thing, and yet his book is filled with his own wisdom along with so many references to other authors and famous pieces.

I think what his friend was doing was assigning him generic quotations to cover so many different aspects of the same emotion...and when that doesn't work, say something witty and make up the author's name...after all, who would check save the scholars?

It was a little odd but even that was enjoyable. And oh goodness Virgil, I never even saw the poetry!!!!!! I will have to go back and read that today.

The story I think you might have just finished is about the lady Marcela I think. I will take a look at lunch and then comment hopefully.

Don't have much to do tomorrow, so I hope I can get the reading done.

[ShoutGrace]

Chapter XV, in which is recounted the unfortunate adventure that Don Quixote happened upon when he happened upon some heartless Yanguesans.



“I wish I had enough breath to speak with less effort and that the pain I feel in these ribs would ease just a little, so that I could make clear to you, Panza, how wrong you are.”

. . . . . .

“In this circumstance that just happened to us,” Sancho responded, “I would have liked to have had the intelligence and valor your grace has mentioned; but I swear to you, by my faith as a poor man, that I need a poultice more than I need talk. Your grace, see if you can stand, and we'll help Rocinante, though he doesn't deserve it, because he's the main reason for this beating. I never would have believed it of Rocinante; I always that he was a person as chaste and peaceable as I am. Well, like they say, you need a long time to know a person, and nothing in this life is certain. Who would have thought that hard on the heels and so soon after those mighty blows struck by your grace's sword against that unfortunate knight errant, this great storm of beating would rain down on our backs?”

“Yours, at least, Sancho,” replied Don Quixote, “must be accustomed to such cloudbursts; but mine, brought up on cambric and fine Dutch linen, of course will feel more deeply the pain of this misfortune. And if it were not because I imagine . . . did I say imagine? . . . because I know for a fact that all these discomforts are an intergral part of the practice of arms, I would let myself die here out of sheer annoyance.”



:D

.

[NickAdams]

VirgilHaven't gotten much reading done lately, real life keeps me busy. How far along are you Virgil, Nick,, and mheartin?

I've been pushing through that miserable book One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. I wish I was enveloped in a fog, so I wouldn't be able to see the text- blah. I don't know if it's the book or not, that's where it started, but I have been feeling uninspired: little reading, no writing, few films and no post ... but I've returned- I hope.

I have been ressurected after my search for a good translation of Don Quixote. I compared the first page of each and am quite familiar with the Don's eating habits. I chose the Burton Raffel translation, Don Quijote, which was twenty dollars, but saw the Norton Edition, which contains the same translation, but with bonus material and picked up for twelve.

The thought of reading this next might get me through Kesey.

[grace86]

I've been pushing through that miserable book One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. I wish I was enveloped in a fog, so I wouldn't be able to see the text- blah. I don't know if it's the book or not, that's where it started, but I have been feeling uninspired: little reading, no writing, few films and no post ... but I've returned- I hope.

I have been ressurected after my search for a good translation of Don Quixote. I compared the first page of each and am quite familiar with the Don's eating habits. I chose the Burton Raffel translation, Don Quijote, which was twenty dollars, but saw the Norton Edition, which contains the same translation, but with bonus material and picked up for twelve.

The thought of reading this next might get me through Kesey.

You know, I am hearing a lot of negative opinions lately about some of the books being read right now....I know of some who don't like To the Lighthouse. Hope One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest gets better for you Nick.

Glad you found a translation you enjoy too.

You know what I like about reading Don Quixote is that the chapters are short and the scenes frequently change to some new adventure...I hope this will keep you from getting bored. Happy to know you're still with us.

Virgil I am now twelve chapters into the second part of the novel. By the way, who originally started bolding the names in their posts?? Was it Janine??? I've seemed to pick up that habit.

Oh and Shouty I'm glad to see you around ;)

[Virgil]

You're pulling away from me, Grace. I just got back to it last night. I will be reading a little each night now and friday I go on vacation. I should get a lot read on my five hour flight to California, and then I'm sure i'll get a bit read by the pool during the week, and then another five hour flight back. So by another two weeks I should be at least half way through.

[grace86]

Hey Virgil, where in California are you coming out to?

(I can slow down in my reading if you like :D )

[Virgil]

Hey Virgil, where in California are you coming out to?

We'll be spending a week in Santa Barbara. I have a nephew playing in an orchestra there for the summer and we decided to meet up with him. I think he is in this, although I'm not sure:
http://independent.com/news/2007/jun/21/classical-music-summer-preview/


(I can slow down in my reading if you like :D )
Oh that's up to you and whatever your reading plans are. My plans are to read as much as i can of Don Quixote up to August 1st and then set it aside for To The Lighthouse. Once I've finished that I will return to Cervantes.

I was so happy to get back to Don Quixote last night. Cervantes's voice is so fatherly or perhaps even grandfatherly to me. It sounds like an older man giving me advice on life. :D

[grace86]

Hmm Santa Barbara...why are you and Janine always going further North than where I am? :bawling: I'm just kidding. I hope you enjoy the time you spend over here...it has been very beautiful and cool down here. I think from what I remember, I am about three and a half or four hours south of Santa Barbara...East of Los Angeles.

Yes I plan to pick up To the Lighthouse sometime soon as well. I hoped to finish Don Quixote before that but who knows what will happen. I've got two other books in the midst, and I am rather enjoying Don Quixote at the moment.

Cervantes reminds me too of a father like figure, he seems to have such ease in putting forth wisdom...he includes all kinds of stories and wit. I think this first time around reading it, I am doing so for more of the enjoyment of it, I am having a bit of a harder time determining symbolism and such in this novel (not at all like in WIL).

Although I did notice something about Rocinante in the quotation ShoutGrace posted, I will post it later though when I get my thoughts together.

Virgil...is your nephew in the Academy you posted?

[Janine]

Hmm Santa Barbara...why are you and Janine always going further North than where I am? :bawling: I'm just kidding. I hope you enjoy the time you spend over here...it has been very beautiful and cool down here. I think from what I remember, I am about three and a half or four hours south of Santa Barbara...East of Los Angeles.

I am hysterical laughing!!!:lol:
Hi Virgil and Grace -- between your posts #21 - and this one I have been laughing my head off. Your conversation makes it sound like Virgil and I are running off to Santa Barbara together! :lol: Let me make this clear to everyone reading this: VIRGIL(in bold and caps) is going there with his nice WIFEY(also in bold and caps)....you know the one he "truimphs" over, and by the way, she is a real person! No laptop though - she banned him; who can blame the woman really? I imagine it is a second honeymoon, V?;) Better leave the book home, too.
You two will love Santa Barbara - one of my favorite spots in CA, but I(in bold and caps) was there many, many moons ago.
Well, G and V, thanks for the entertainment - it has been a funny start to my day on Lit Net.

Yes, yes, Grace, I am the one who started the bolding up of names. Hey guys, did you ever hear of formatting? Artists do it all the time! I used to sell on eBay and I bolded up things to emphasis them, etc, also I used colored types to set things appart - no I have not gone that far on here yet - that takes too much time, but someday I may treat you with a colorful post.



Yes I plan to pick up To the Lighthouse sometime soon as well. I hoped to finish Don Quixote before that but who knows what will happen. I've got two other books in the midst, and I am rather enjoying Don Quixote at the moment.

What you said earlier or someone else about people not liking "To the Lighthouse" - isn't that just 'par for the course' on this site, or any other, for that matter - some will give it a chance and like it and others will complain continually about how they hate the book. I would just read it sometime and evaluate for myself.


Cervantes reminds me too of a father like figure, he seems to have such ease in putting forth wisdom...he includes all kinds of stories and wit. I think this first time around reading it, I am doing so for more of the enjoyment of it, I am having a bit of a harder time determining symbolism and such in this novel (not at all like in WIL).

I must get to the book one of these days - only have about 10 planned before I read that one. No other book quite like WIL with that symbolism. Hey, Grace, I got you in a DHL state of mind, thinking now with short stories and all.

[Virgil]

I am hysterical laughing!!!:lol:
Hi Virgil and Grace -- between your posts #21 - and this one I have been laughing my head off. Your conversation makes it sound like Virgil and I are running off to Santa Barbara together! :lol: Let me make this clear to everyone reading this: VIRGIL(in bold and caps) is going there with his nice WIFEY(also in bold and caps)....you know the one he "truimphs" over, and by the way, she is a real person! No laptop though - she banned him; who can blame the woman really? I imagine it is a second honeymoon, V?;) Better leave the book home, too.
You two will love Santa Barbara - one of my favorite spots in CA, but I[B](in bold and caps) was there many, many moons ago.
Well, [B]G and V, thanks for the entertainment - it has been a funny start to my day on Lit Net.


:lol: No Janine and I are not running off together. No, my wife and I and actually my mother-in-law too. A little bit of a family affair. So not a second honeymoon. :lol: *shakes my head* You ladies. :p

[grace86]

Ohhh nooo sorry about that! That was a very big oversight Janine! But I am glad to have cracked you up!

Janine is NOT going to Santa Barbara with Virgil....hehe I screwed that up!

[Janine]

Ohhh nooo sorry about that! That was a very big oversight Janine! But I am glad to have cracked you up!

Janine is NOT going to Santa Barbara with Virgil....hehe I screwed that up!

Glad everyone knows I am not stealing someone's husband. Thing is I was talking to my friend Downing today live on Instant Messanger and she said she was confused by the post(?). We both got a huge laugh out of it, so see, Grace, you have entertained us both! Thanks, it brightened my day! I am sure Virgil will be hysterical, too.:lol: oh, wait just noticed your post, V. Mother-in-law is going, too? - bummer! Well, just getting away will be a treat - anything remotely different than the east coast with all the traffic congestion. Of course, CA has it's share, I imagine. But the spectacular scenery makes up for it! Be sure and take you camera - we want to see some great photos from the trip. Be sure to go up to the mission and tour it - it's fabulous!

Nice touch, Grace, with the red type!

[grace86]

Nice touch, Grace, with the red type!

Red type??? What red type?? Oh noo what's going on?! I don't see any red....

(too much caffeine today I think)

[Janine]

Grace - I think they put the 'red' in sometimes - it must only show on my computer - odd. But yes, my name is showing up red - must mean I am important, huh? :lol:
Don't forget to bold up those names!
I could use some more caffeine right now but it is too close to bedtime actually.

[Drone]

I'm in. Thanks for Grace's recommendation. If I had joint in this thread earlier!
I read through your previous talkings and share your laugh:yawnb:
I started reading a bit earlier in February when I took a lecture for Don Quixote in the university. But it covers only Part 1. I started to read part 2
after the exam and now I'm coming out of the cave of Montesinos in chapter 21.

I found a few days ago the fight with the lion extremely exciting!!:lol:
Hope you would share laughs with me there.
I'm a little ahead of you because I started a bit earlier. In fact I'm only learning English as a second language and must be reading much slower than you do.:yawnb:

The helmet you talked about caught my nerves for laugh(is it proper to say so?)as well----"However, to see if it was strong enough to stand up to the risk of a sward-cut, he took out his sword and gave it two strokes, the first of which demolished in a moment what had taken him a week to make...and, nor caring to make another trial of it". He is here making examination to his hand-made crafts like a child!:D

[grace86]

Drone I am happy to see you have joined us! Don't worry about not speaking English as a first language. Many people here don't speak English as their first language.

I am in Part II, and I have just finished the part with the lions. I love that part so much. Don Quixote has just left staying with Don Diego and his son Don Lorenzo. There is one particular passage in there that I like. Don Quixote does a pretty good job explaining to Don Lorenzo how well educated a knight must be.

Here's the passage I love in Part II Chapter XVIII:


"So far," said Don Lorenzo to himself, "I should not take you to
be a madman; but let us go on." So he said to him, "Your worship has
apparently attended the schools; what sciences have you studied?"

"That of knight-errantry," said Don Quixote, "which is as good as
that of poetry, and even a finger or two above it."

"I do not know what science that is," said Don Lorenzo, "and until
now I have never heard of it."

"It is a science," said Don Quixote, "that comprehends in itself all
or most of the sciences in the world, for he who professes it must
be a jurist, and must know the rules of justice, distributive and
equitable, so as to give to each one what belongs to him and is due to
him. He must be a theologian, so as to be able to give a clear and
distinctive reason for the Christian faith he professes, wherever it
may be asked of him. He must be a physician, and above all a
herbalist, so as in wastes and solitudes to know the herbs that have
the property of healing wounds, for a knight-errant must not go
looking for some one to cure him at every step. He must be an
astronomer, so as to know by the stars how many hours of the night
have passed, and what clime and quarter of the world he is in. He must
know mathematics, for at every turn some occasion for them will
present itself to him; and, putting it aside that he must be adorned
with all the virtues, cardinal and theological, to come down to
minor particulars, he must, I say, be able to swim as well as Nicholas
or Nicolao the Fish could, as the story goes; he must know how to shoe
a horse, and repair his saddle and bridle; and, to return to higher
matters, he must be faithful to God and to his lady; he must be pure
in thought, decorous in words, generous in works, valiant in deeds,
patient in suffering, compassionate towards the needy, and, lastly, an
upholder of the truth though its defence should cost him his life.
Of all these qualities, great and small, is a true knight-errant
made up; judge then, Senor Don Lorenzo, whether it be a contemptible
science which the knight who studies and professes it has to learn,
and whether it may not compare with the very loftiest that are
taught in the schools."

"If that be so," replied Don Lorenzo, "this science, I protest,
surpasses all."

He seems so sane while he discusses all of this, almost makes any person want to put on their helmet and join Don Quixote in such a noble pursuit!! :D Well, that doesn't seem too sane for me to do now does it?! :lol:

Drone I too studied a little bit of part one for a college course. That is why I am here today reading it. Part Two seems to be very interesting so far. I cannot wait to get further. I think Virgil will enjoy the lion fights very much as well (he's on vacation now).

I had forgotten about the fact that he had tested out his helmet in the beginning...he does seem so much like a child!

And again Drone it is nice to have you join us.

[Drone]

Well, Grace, I find it such a pleasure to join this thread here. A Chinese verb goes like----it is a pleasure to enjoy a piece of music alone; yet even a greater pleasure to share it with others. I've been reading alone so far but now I take more delight in sharing the interesting passages with you all. (I wonder if the habit of proverb-quoting made its way around from Sancho who somewhat in part 2 suddenly becomes full of wisdom and quotes whenever he can...)

Don Quixote has something of a professor indeed. He delivers speeches so seriously that sometimes what he talks about is really of great importance.
When I came to the following quoted passages, I got suddenly awakened that the mother tongue is so important to me, for recently I indulge very much in European languages learning and their culture, which is good for me too. Lorenzo likewise indulges himself in the Greek and Roman literature and
Don Quixote reminds him of the Spanish culture by such a reasonable speech that nobody would find any trace of his being insane.


And with regard to what you say, senor, of your son having no great opinion of Spanish poetry, I am inclined to think that he is not quite right there, and for this reason: the great poet Homer did not write in Latin, because he was a Greek, nor did Virgil write in Greek, because he was a Latin; in short, all the ancient poets wrote in the language they imbibed with their mother's milk, and never went in quest of foreign ones to express their sublime conceptions; and that being so, the usage should in justice extend to all nations, and the German poet should not be undervalued because he writes in his own language, nor the Castilian, nor even the Biscayan, for writing in his.

Looking back to the previous readings, the scene that most impresses me is that of the adventure with the two flocks of sheep whereafter Don Quixote, badly injured, lying on the ground, asks Sancho to find how many teeth are left in his mouth.


But go not just yet, for I want thy help and assistance; come hither, and see how many of my teeth and grinders are missing, for I feel as if there was not one left in my mouth."

Sancho came so close that he almost put his eyes into his mouth; now just at that moment the balsam had acted on the stomach of Don Quixote, so, at the very instant when Sancho came to examine his mouth, he discharged all its contents with more force than a musket, and full into the beard of the compassionate squire.

"Holy Mary!" cried Sancho, "what is this that has happened me? Clearly this sinner is mortally wounded, as he vomits blood from the mouth;" but considering the matter a little more closely he perceived by the colour, taste, and smell, that it was not blood but the balsam from the flask which he had seen him drink; and he was taken with such a loathing that his stomach turned, and he vomited up his inside over his very master, and both were left in a precious state. Sancho ran to his *** to get something wherewith to clean himself, and relieve his master, out of his alforjas; but not finding them, he well-nigh took leave of his senses, and cursed himself anew, and in his heart resolved to quit his master and return home, even though he forfeited the wages of his service and all hopes of the promised island.



Cervantes intended to let the balsam out of Don Quixote's stomach at the moment when Sancho is examining into Don Quixote's mouth.:lol:

[grace86]

Drone, it is wonderful that you have decided to join us and that you are liking the idea of reading in a group. Sharing what you read with others is such an experience. Janine I think it was, said that reading can be lonely. I really like your proverb, I have a chinese proverb that is on my nameplates for my books, and it says "A book is like a garden carried in the pocket." I think that is so sweet.

Your passages are awesome and ones I remember. It is interesting how strong of a point Don Quixote makes about the great authors using the vernacular language. I think most people recognize and would like to think that a language like latin is I guess a classic language, but the authors he mentioned, they are great authors...and they wrote in their mother tongue. I guess he gives the reader something to learn.

Even Cervantes was a great author, and he wrote in his vernacular Spanish.

I was cracking up when I read that second passage right now! That one is unforgettable. I hadn't expected it in Don Quixote, such slapstick humor...but that part is really awesome.

When Sancho uses his proverbs, it is easy to see that he is so wise, but when he stacks the proverbs up one right after the other...it's kind of like "we get the point already Sancho!" which makes him all the funnier.

[Drone]

Today I found an episode in the chapters concerning the similar to the blank-tossing adventure where Sancho suffers another blow for which Don Quixote, his master, does nothing but run away like a coward. It is expected that the reason should take its side on Sancho's side since he is the one who suffers and his master is the one who deserts his squire in the peril. But to my surprise when Don Quixote sees his pitiful squire coming back lying across the dapple, instead of making apologize or some excuse(which suits for his cowardness), he sets out to scold Sancho immediately:eek:


Don Quixote dismounted to examine his wounds, but finding him whole from head to foot, he said to him, angrily enough, "In an evil hour didst thou take to braying, Sancho! Where hast thou learned that it is well done to mention the rope in the house of the man that has been hanged? To the music of brays what harmonies couldst thou expect to get but cudgels? Give thanks to God, Sancho, that they signed the cross on thee just now with a stick, and did not mark thee per signum crucis with a cutlass."


Then Don Quixote makes a crazy but also seemingly reasonable explanation for his running away which makes me rather speechless:


"He does not fly who retires," returned Don Quixote; "for I would have thee know, Sancho, that the valour which is not based upon a foundation of prudence is called rashness, and the exploits of the rash man are to be attributed rather to good fortune than to courage; and so I own that I retired, but not that I fled; and therein I have followed the example of many valiant men who have reserved themselves for better times; the histories are full of instances of this, but as it would not be any good to thee or pleasure to me, I will not recount them to thee now."


Later, Sancho, like a wife complaining and quarreling to her husband, threatens that he would leave Don Quixote and go back to home. See it's just like a wife who is left in a dangerous situation by her irresponsible husband wants to break up with him or forces the husband to give her some feeling of security next time by threatening to leave him.

But Don Quixote, either out of tactfulness in dealing with his company or of real carelessness of Sancho, says he does not care whether Sancho would leave him or not and starts right to dicuss with the payment that he shoud give Sancho to send him off. He appears so cold and cruel to Sancho!!


Talk away, my son, say whatever comes into your head or mouth, for so long as you feel no pain, the irritation your impertinences give me will he a pleasure to me; and if you are so anxious to go home to your wife and children, God forbid that I should prevent you; you have money of mine; see how long it is since we left our village this third time, and how much you can and ought to earn every month, and pay yourself out of your own hand."


As the long bargaining going on, Don Quixote grows more and more impatient and bursts out abusing our little Sancho fiercely:


Turn the rein, or the halter, of thy Dapple, and begone home; for one single step further thou shalt not make in my company. O bread thanklessly received! O promises ill-bestowed! O man more beast than human being! Now, when I was about to raise thee to such a position, that, in spite of thy wife, they would call thee 'my lord,' thou art leaving me? Thou art going now when I had a firm and fixed intention of making thee lord of the best island in the world? Well, as thou thyself hast said before now, honey is not for the mouth of the ***[taken to be an obscene word and obscured by the system, meaning "the dapple" actually], . *** thou art, *** thou wilt be, and *** thou wilt end when the course of thy life is run; for I know it will come to its close before thou dost perceive or discern that thou art a beast."


Sancho fails in this bargain or family quarrel and reduces himself to a much humbler position, clinging to Don Quixote just as the wife would submit to the husband in a quarrel in a male-dominated family.


Sancho regarded Don Quixote earnestly while he was giving him this rating, and was so touched by remorse that the tears came to his eyes, and in a piteous and broken voice he said to him, "Master mine, I confess that, to be a complete ***, all I want is a tail; if your worship will only fix one on to me, I'll look on it as rightly placed, and I'll serve you as an *** all the remaining days of my life. Forgive me and have pity on my folly, and remember I know but little, and, if I talk much, it's more from infirmity than malice; but he who sins and mends commends himself to God."


I has not experienced a marriage yet but thinks this kind of quarrel a typical one for the quarrel a couple would make during their married life. I'm afraid it's much painstaking for both but I believe there must be some fun in it or at least both would be moved to tears at last for the reunion. Anyway, this is only an adolescent speculation and imagination and I'd love to hear your views.

[Dori]

Can I join in on this? I know it might be a little late, but I can start at Chapter XXXIV in Part I. I'm a fast reader, at least most of the time, so I probably will be able to catch up with everyone in little time.

I tried reading this book a few months ago, but I couldn't stick with it. However, reading with a group is a whole different situation. How far has everyone gotten so far?

[NickAdams]

Can I join in on this? I know it might be a little late, but I can start at Chapter XXXIV in Part I. I'm a fast reader, at least most of the time, so I probably will be able to catch up with everyone in little time.

You're not late. From the looks of things this discussion will be going on for some time. I've been deeping my toe into the pole myself. I'm reading a little Beckett before I jump in.

[Dori]

All is well then. I will join in after I finish Fathers and Sons by Ivan Turgenev, which will most likely be thursday evening.

[NickAdams]

I will make my mark Thursday also.

[Sancho]

Howdy Y’all,
Buenos Dias Ustedes,

I can’t believe that I missed this thread; what with my handle and all. …Now I feel like such a simpleton…I feel so gullible.:lol:

I enjoyed reading through everyone’s comments and impressions of Don Quixote. I probably can’t add much to the discussion since it’s been years since I read it and also because I read it for other than literary purposes.

A few years ago I started reading everything I could find about the history of the Americas. Naturally the Spanish played a huge part in the – (you choose the noun) [discovery/invasion/conquest/colonization] of the Americas, so I wanted to know what life was like for the average Joe living in Spain during the sixteenth and seventeenth centuries. Don Quixote was like a splendid time machine and Sancho Panza was the conduit to the common folk: the shop-keepers, the barbers, the fish mongers, the hiway robbers, the whores, the bums etc. I loved it; I think sometimes a novel is a better history than a history.

Anyway, one of these days I’m going to reread it and try to give it a good close reading, but that’ll have to wait until I have a couple of months to spare and preferably during the dead of winter. Yes, and maybe in a mountain cabin, next to a crackling fire, in a cozy wing-backed chair, with a snoring dog of dubious ancestry at my feet, and a steamy mug Irish coffee on the end table… whoops, I’m drifting again.

[Dori]

It appears that I will be able to join in sooner than I thought. I didn't expect finishing Fathers and Sons today.

I've been reading about different translations that have been mentioned on this site, but I haven't seen anyone mention the Walter Starkie translation. Does anyone else have the Starkie translation published by Signet Classics? I came to own this copy out of a friend's charity---or should I say disgust? My friend read about 150 pages into the book and said it was too much for him. And he reads more than I do! So he gave it to me. And to think I would have never come across such a book hadn't my friend hated it. Ironic.

I will start by reading a little tonight (it's 11:15 pm where I live). I look forward to discussing this book with everyone!

[grace86]

I am glad to see that so many have decided to join. Lately I've been a bit busy moving (check my blog out for more info if you want to) and so my reading has taken second place.

There is NO set time we have for finishing Don Quixote, just doing is so that we can all discuss it with others. For those who have started reading it, there are some parts that just need to be talked about...like the vomit passage mentioned above. :lol:

So read at your leisure. I'm no professional at translations, but I am beginning to think that Don Quixote is one of the most translated books.

Drone sorry to leave you hanging! The part where you talk about how badly Quixote treats Sancho at times is something I too noticed. He doesn't do it often, but he does it more than once. I am still not far after the beginning of the second part...but Quixote treats Sancho badly again when they are about to depart on their third sally. Sancho wasn't too sure he wanted to go, and Quixote tells him it is okay, because he will find another squire...because after all who wouldn't want Sancho's place? :rolleyes: Remember Quixote had Sancho at such tears when that other guy....I cannot remember his name, was willing to take his place...so Sancho finally decided to go.

I am not sure if it is when Quixote is in his sane or intelligent moods that he treats Sancho so poorly.

Glad you're enjoying the second portion.

[Dori]

I just came across a passage that made me laugh out loud for the first time since I resumed this book. It takes place in part one when they are at the inn, just after the captive and the judge, realizing they are brothers, are reunited.

From Part I, Chapter XLII, which treats of what further took place in the inn, and of several other things worth knowing:


Don Quixote offered to mount
guard over the castle lest they should be attacked by some giant or
other malevolent scoundrel, covetous of the great treasure of beauty
the castle contained. Those who understood him returned him thanks for
this service, and they gave the Judge an account of his
extraordinary humour, with which he was not a little amused. Sancho
Panza alone was fuming at the lateness of the hour for retiring to
rest; and he of all was the one that made himself most comfortable, as
he stretched himself on the trappings of his ***, which, as will be
told farther on, cost him so dear.

The ladies, then, having retired to their chamber, and the others
having disposed themselves with as little discomfort as they could,
Don Quixote sallied out of the inn to act as sentinel of the castle as
he had promised.

:lol: I find it hilarious that Quixote thinks the inn is a castle. I also found some humor in the next chapter. I will quote a passage:

From Part I, Chapter XLIII, wherein is related the pleasant story of the muleteer, together with other strange things that come to pass in the inn:


Maritornes felt sure that Don Quixote would present the hand she had
asked, and making up her mind what to do, she got down from the hole
and went into the stable, where she took the halter of Sancho
Panza's ***, and in all haste returned to the hole, just as Don
Quixote had planted himself standing on Rocinante's saddle in order to
reach the grated window where he supposed the lovelorn damsel to be;
and giving her his hand, he said, "Lady, take this hand, or rather
this scourge of the evil-doers of the earth; take, I say, this hand
which no other hand of woman has ever touched, not even hers who has
complete possession of my entire body. I present it to you, not that
you may kiss it, but that you may observe the contexture of the
sinews, the close network of the muscles, the breadth and capacity
of the veins, whence you may infer what must be the strength of the
arm that has such a hand."

"That we shall see presently," said Maritornes, and making a running
knot on the halter, she passed it over his wrist and coming down
from the hole tied the other end very firmly to the bolt of the door
of the straw-loft.

Don Quixote, feeling the roughness of the rope on his wrist,
exclaimed, "Your grace seems to be grating rather than caressing my
hand; treat it not so harshly, for it is not to blame for the
offence my resolution has given you, nor is it just to wreak all
your vengeance on so small a part; remember that one who loves so well
should not revenge herself so cruelly."

But there was nobody now to listen to these words of Don
Quixote's, for as soon as Maritornes had tied him she and the other
made off, ready to die with laughing, leaving him fastened in such a
way that it was impossible for him to release himself.

He was, as has been said, standing on Rocinante, with his arm passed
through the hole and his wrist tied to the bolt of the door, and in
mighty fear and dread of being left hanging by the arm if Rocinante
were to stir one side or the other; so he did not dare to make the
least movement, although from the patience and imperturbable
disposition of Rocinante, he had good reason to expect that he would
stand without budging for a whole century. Finding himself fast, then,
and that the ladies had retired, he began to fancy that all this was
done by enchantment, as on the former occasion when in that same
castle that enchanted Moor of a carrier had belaboured him; and he
cursed in his heart his own want of sense and judgment in venturing to
enter the castle again, after having come off so badly the first time;
it being a settled point with knights-errant that when they have tried
an adventure, and have not succeeded in it, it is a sign that it is
not reserved for them but for others, and that therefore they need not
try it again. Nevertheless he pulled his arm to see if he could
release himself, but it had been made so fast that all his efforts
were in vain. It is true he pulled it gently lest Rocinante should
move, but try as he might to seat himself in the saddle, he had
nothing for it but to stand upright or pull his hand off.

What did everyone else think of this scene? I somewhat felt bad for Don Quixote, but I still couldn't resist laughing.

The vomit scene quoted above by Drone is another one of my favorite scenes.

[Virgil]

I'm back from vacation. I made my goal of completing the first book. Now I will take a litle breather and move on to Virginia Woolf's To The Lighthouse for August. I will return to Don Quixote in September. But i did scribble notes in my book and I shall occaisionally post here as I get the chance.

Glad to see so many are enjoying it. I think it's a great work.

[Dori]

Welcome back, Virgil.

I am taking a brief break from Don Quixote to read Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows. But I suspect on returning in a couple of days. Tuesday or wednesday, perhaps.

[Virgil]

Well, Grace, I find it such a pleasure to join this thread here. A Chinese verb goes like----it is a pleasure to enjoy a piece of music alone; yet even a greater pleasure to share it with others. I've been reading alone so far but now I take more delight in sharing the interesting passages with you all. (I wonder if the habit of proverb-quoting made its way around from Sancho who somewhat in part 2 suddenly becomes full of wisdom and quotes whenever he can...)

Don Quixote has something of a professor indeed. He delivers speeches so seriously that sometimes what he talks about is really of great importance.
When I came to the following quoted passages, I got suddenly awakened that the mother tongue is so important to me, for recently I indulge very much in European languages learning and their culture, which is good for me too. Lorenzo likewise indulges himself in the Greek and Roman literature and
Don Quixote reminds him of the Spanish culture by such a reasonable speech that nobody would find any trace of his being insane.



Looking back to the previous readings, the scene that most impresses me is that of the adventure with the two flocks of sheep whereafter Don Quixote, badly injured, lying on the ground, asks Sancho to find how many teeth are left in his mouth.



Cervantes intended to let the balsam out of Don Quixote's stomach at the moment when Sancho is examining into Don Quixote's mouth.:lol:

Welcome to lit net Drone. I'm glad you joined us and I share your appreciation of those scenes. I think the funniest for me was the scene where Don Quixote and Sancho get beat up by the Yanguensans.


By this time Don Quixote and Sancho, who had witnessed the
drubbing of Rocinante, came up panting, and said Don Quixote to
Sancho:

"So far as I can see, friend Sancho, these are not knights but
base folk of low birth: I mention it because thou canst lawfully aid
me in taking due vengeance for the insult offered to Rocinante
before our eyes."

"What the devil vengeance can we take," answered Sancho, "if they
are more than twenty, and we no more than two, or, indeed, perhaps not
more than one and a half?"

"I count for a hundred," replied Don Quixote, and without more words
he drew his sword and attacked the Yanguesans and excited and impelled
by the example of his master, Sancho did the same; and to begin
with, Don Quixote delivered a slash at one of them that laid open
the leather jerkin he wore, together with a great portion of his
shoulder. The Yanguesans, seeing themselves assaulted by only two
men while they were so many, betook themselves to their stakes, and
driving the two into the middle they began to lay on with great zeal
and energy; in fact, at the second blow they brought Sancho to the
ground, and Don Quixote fared the same way, all his skill and high
mettle availing him nothing, and fate willed it that he should fall at
the feet of Rocinante, who had not yet risen; whereby it may be seen
how furiously stakes can pound in angry boorish hands. Then, seeing
the mischief they had done, the Yanguesans with all the haste they
could loaded their team and pursued their journey, leaving the two
adventurers a sorry sight and in sorrier mood.

Sancho was the first to come to, and finding himself close to his
master he called to him in a weak and doleful voice, "Senor Don
Quixote, ah, Senor Don Quixote!"

"What wouldst thou, brother Sancho?" answered Don Quixote in the
same feeble suffering tone as Sancho.

"I would like, if it were possible," answered Sancho Panza, "your
worship to give me a couple of sups of that potion of the fiery
Blas, if it be that you have any to hand there; perhaps it will
serve for broken bones as well as for wounds."

"If I only had it here, wretch that I am, what more should we want?"
said Don Quixote; "but I swear to thee, Sancho Panza, on the faith
of a knight-errant, ere two days are over, unless fortune orders
otherwise, I mean to have it in my possession, or my hand will have
lost its cunning."

"But in how many does your worship think we shall have the use of
our feet?" answered Sancho Panza.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

[Virgil]

Welcome back, Virgil.

I am taking a brief break from Don Quixote to read Harry Potter and the Deathly Hollows. But I suspect on returning in a couple of days. Tuesday or wednesday, perhaps.

Thank you Dori. I don't know if I've welcomed you to lit net. But glad you are here and I hope you will enjoy this forum and this discussion. :)

[grace86]

Virgil you're back! :banana:

I did take a break from Don Quixote to read Harry Potter as well, which I am now done with.

I am very early on in the second book, so I think we are pretty much on the same level.

Good thing you scribbled notes.

[Virgil]

Virgil you're back! :banana:

I did take a break from Don Quixote to read Harry Potter as well, which I am now done with.

I am very early on in the second book, so I think we are pretty much on the same level.

Good thing you scribbled notes.

Oh good. Are you in on the To The Lighthouse discussion? I also haven't seen Janine around since I've been back. Has she been away?

[Dori]

Thank you Dori. I don't know if I've welcomed you to lit net. But glad you are here and I hope you will enjoy this forum and this discussion. :)

I'm not sure you have, but thanks for the warm welcome.

I have about 30 pages left until part II.

[Drone]

Hello everyone! Thank goodness I've gone through the terrible cold where I slept 18h of the 24 for yesterday and the day before yesterday and now I'm quite recovered. Thank you, Grace and Virgil, you are so sweet and careful in welcoming me to this thread.

Grace, I'd like to add something new to the discussion on the relationship between Don Quixote and Sancho.


The part where you talk about how badly Quixote treats Sancho at times is something I too noticed. He doesn't do it often, but he does it more than once. I am still not far after the beginning of the second part...but Quixote treats Sancho badly again when they are about to depart on their third sally. Sancho wasn't too sure he wanted to go, and Quixote tells him it is okay, because he will find another squire...because after all who wouldn't want Sancho's place? Remember Quixote had Sancho at such tears when that other guy....I cannot remember his name, was willing to take his place...so Sancho finally decided to go.

I am not sure if it is when Quixote is in his sane or intelligent moods that he treats Sancho so poorly.


I'm still not sure what causes Quixote to be cruel to Sancho, but fortunately I find somewhere in Part 2 Don Quixote confesses his preference for Sancho as the best squire that he would not like to part with. I'm so glad that they feel the same way with each other and go through adventures together.

Welcome Dori, I feel exactly the same way with the Maritornes scene you quoted. I feel sorry for it but at the same time laugh at it. And I think Grace does too(Are you Grace?:D )and he described it to be "slapstick humor" which I think is a very approriate definition. I'm very happy, Dori, that you also like the vomit scene. I think this two scene belong much to the same category.

Virgil, I also take great delight in reading the Yanguesans adventure and I found their dialogue following this adventure very interesting too. Don Quixote is so good at defending himself with the rules of knight errantry:lol:


"For myself I must say I cannot guess how many," said the battered
knight Don Quixote; "but I take all the blame upon myself, for I had
no business to put hand to sword against men who where not dubbed
knights like myself, and so I believe that in punishment for having
transgressed the laws of chivalry the God of battles has permitted
this chastisement to be administered to me; for which reason,
brother Sancho, it is well thou shouldst receive a hint on the
matter which I am now about to mention to thee, for it is of much
importance to the welfare of both of us. It is at when thou shalt
see rabble of this sort offering us insult thou art not to wait till I
draw sword against them, for I shall not do so at all; but do thou
draw sword and chastise them to thy heart's content, and if any
knights come to their aid and defence I will take care to defend
thee and assail them with all my might; and thou hast already seen
by a thousand signs and proofs what the might of this strong arm of
mine is equal to"- so uplifted had the poor gentleman become through
the victory over the stout Biscayan.

[grace86]

Virgil I've seen Janine posting I think, I don't know if she is participating in To the Lighthouse much lately. She hasn't been online lately for IMing.

I took my copy of To the Lighthouse back to the library. I couldn't hold onto it for much longer, I think I will have to go back to the library later on and get it.


I'm still not sure what causes Quixote to be cruel to Sancho, but fortunately I find somewhere in Part 2 Don Quixote confesses his preference for Sancho as the best squire that he would not like to part with. I'm so glad that they feel the same way with each other and go through adventures together.

I remember reading that scene too Drone and I thought it was sweet. They seem to be very good companions. I read somewhere...I will have to post it when I remember where I read it, that Don Quixote was one of the first examples of the "side kick" idea.


And I think Grace does too(Are you Grace? )and he described it to be "slapstick humor" which I think is a very approriate definition.

:D I am not quite sure I understand what you mean in the parentheses Drone. Oh...and just a side note, I'm a she. ;) That's actually the first time someone thought I was male.

Glad we are all on virtually the same part. Happy reading everyone. I will pick it up again perhaps this evening. (That means hurry up with To the Lighthouse Virgil...:p I'm just kidding!)

[Drone]

I am not quite sure I understand what you mean in the parentheses Drone. Oh...and just a side note, I'm a she. That's actually the first time someone thought I was male.


Dear me, Grace, I made a terribly mistake on the verb and forgot to put a comma there. It should be "Do you, Grace?", simply for making sure whether you agree to that point. I'm really sorry for confusing you. Hope that you are not angry. By the way, I take you as a she since I'm acquainted with you, indeed.:yawnb:

[grace86]

Dear me, Grace, I made a terribly mistake on the verb and forgot to put a comma there. It should be "Do you, Grace?", simply for making sure whether you agree to that point. I'm really sorry for confusing you. Hope that you are not angry. By the way, I take you as a she since I'm acquainted with you, indeed.:yawnb:

:D No worries! I wasn't trying to come off angry, I just thought it was interesting. I do agree with what you said previously as well. We all make typing errors at some point! :p

Glad you know I'm female! :D

[Drone]

Grace, I'm so glad you are not angry with me.:yawnb: I'm a male, by the way. Recently, I've began reading The Picture of Dorian Gray and from both novels I find some very illuminating and comforting ideas concerning life.
In Dorian Gray, life is often taken to be a piece of artwork. So, one's sufferings and misfortune can be, despite of its pains, appreciated as a beautiful tragedy. That's what comforts Dorian Gray when he hears the news of his lover's suicide. He annihilates the guilty and sympathy for his lover so that he could move on without burdens. There is something cruel in it, for acting this way, Dorian must be taken a cool-blooded animal. But in fact, that's the way many people get over the crisis and misfortunes in their life.
Don Quixote adopts a different outlook of life. Life is a journey of adventures for him. He suffers a lot in his expeditions, his left ear cut off, his teeth knocked out, continuous fasting and without sleep. Just imagine, he is at the age of 50! How could one undergo so many physical trials and harms with delight? However, our Don Quixote does! It seems once he takes himself as a knight the pains make less effect on him and he moves on from one adventure after another with great pleasure. I tumbled over this point the other day and I almost envied Don Quixote seeing the stillness of my life compared with his. But I really benefit a lot from this awakening. When I opend my eyes the next morning, I felt happy and hopeful in the conscious and imagination that a whole pack of adventure is in store for me in the upcoming day! I feel so grateful.
These are the ideas I came across these days, welcome for any comments or responses:D

[Virgil]

Virgil, I also take great delight in reading the Yanguesans adventure and I found their dialogue following this adventure very interesting too. Don Quixote is so good at defending himself with the rules of knight errantry:lol:

Yes! :lol: Sometimes I think he's making the rules up. :D But you make an important observation. I think the way he defends himself in debates is an attribute of the narrative.

[grace86]

Tried to respond as soon as I saw your post, Drone but been a bit busy. The Picture of Dorian Gray is definitely of a different attitude than Don Quixote and I appreciate your observations, you are reading two very different attitudes...I found Dorian Gray to be so heavy when I read it...kind of like I adopted the emotions in the novel. It seems to me that Don Quixote, because of the way it is written and the way the characters live that it is just easier on my spirits and an easier read.

Got to Chapter XXI in Part II, the part with Quiteria marrying the rich guy and with Basilio the Poor...I like that part. Sancho is so cute in how simple he is, running towards the food always.

[grace86]

Guess I will try to revive the thread a bit, since all of us here have been a bit busy with other literary endeavors. My reading is a bit slow right now too with the move. At least I hope to finish Don Quixote by the end of the summer.

Awhile back I read the chapter with Don Quixote and the Cave of Montesinos. He came out of the cave after only thirty minutes and told Sancho and the cousin about his adventures.

Why is it Sancho considers these events a blatant lie and not the other insane adventures they go through? Sancho knows Quixote is crazy but participates in the craziness. The cousin seemed to come to Quixote's defense when usually all outsiders are the ones criticizing the poor knight. I'm just curious if anyone else has noticed this.

Sancho continues on throughout the story accusing Quixote of lying...and I think....sorry if this is a SPOILER, that Quixote even says later on that he lied. That brings me to question...did he lie about other adventures, or did he really see such things as windmills, or, if Don Quixote is not prone to lying, why would he say later on that he lied about Montesinos.

I got the previous idea or thought from an article/essay I read on Don Quixote from a fellow LitNetter (Just giving credit where credit is due). If anyone else is interested in a pdf of the essay, PM me.

[NickAdams]

I love it! I will read the first volume and then get back to Midnight's Children.
I can see the impression Quixote left on modern literature. It's all still fresh. Now I know why Faulkner read it every year.

I wonder why there hasn't been a modern film as a retelling. Instead of chilvary books, maybe noir and pulp.

[Broken mirror]

Have you noticed that the tone in the first chapters of Don Quixote is rather cruel? Don Quixote kills a man, a real man: he breaks his head in three pieces. Some specialists say that this cruelty is due to the first conception of the book by Cervantes, since he wanted to write only another short novel, a novela ejemplar about a ruined gentleman that had become mad because of the already old-fashioned chevalry books. We must admit that the first pages of the novel are quite more daring and impulsive than the later speeches and thinkings. The true violence of this first and only killing will be transformed into painful but less bloody blows, slaps, kicks and throws of some stones, comical and irrelevant, like in an old silent movie.

[grace86]

In what chapter was that Broken mirror? I think I know which scene you are talking about but I am not quite sure.

Glad you're so enthusiastic Nick!

[Broken mirror]

Let's see. It's in Chapter III. Here it is:

Shortly after this, another, not knowing what had happened (for the carrier still lay senseless), came with the same object of giving water to his mules, and was proceeding to remove the armour in order to clear the trough, when Don Quixote, without uttering a word or imploring aid from anyone, once more dropped his buckler and once more lifted his lance, and without actually breaking the second carrier's head into pieces*, made more than three of it, for he laid it open in four.

*That's strange, though. He actually breaks the second carrier's head, he opens it in four. I read Don Quixote in Spanish, and it's clear that the poor carrier's head got broken into pieces. Look:

(...) alzó otra vez la lanza y, sin hacerla pedazos, hizo más de tres la cabeza del segundo arriero, porque se la abrió por cuatro.

"Hacerla pedazos" ("breaking it"), says, and it refers to the lance, not to the carrier's head. It may seem strange that a lance was broken by hitting a human head, but "to break lances" meant "to fight, usually two knights". So, Don Quixote didn't broke his lance because he didn't start any fight, he simply broke the carrier's head into four pieces. I strongly feel that a more accurated translation would be:

(...) once more lifted his lance, and without starting any chivalrous fight, made more than three of the second carrier's head, for he laid it open in four.

In these first chapters, Don Quixote is a killer! :eek: :lol:

[NickAdams]

In the early chapters when Quixote happens upon the windmills there is a great insight into prejudice.


Let's see. It's in Chapter III. Here it is:

Shortly after this, another, not knowing what had happened (for the carrier still lay senseless), came with the same object of giving water to his mules, and was proceeding to remove the armour in order to clear the trough, when Don Quixote, without uttering a word or imploring aid from anyone, once more dropped his buckler and once more lifted his lance, and without actually breaking the second carrier's head into pieces*, made more than three of it, for he laid it open in four.

*That's strange, though. He actually breaks the second carrier's head, he opens it in four. I read Don Quixote in Spanish, and it's clear that the poor carrier's head got broken into pieces. Look:

(...) alzó otra vez la lanza y, sin hacerla pedazos, hizo más de tres la cabeza del segundo arriero, porque se la abrió por cuatro.

"Hacerla pedazos" ("breaking it"), says, and it refers to the lance, not to the carrier's head. It may seem strange that a lance was broken by hitting a human head, but "to break lances" meant "to fight, usually two knights". So, Don Quixote didn't broke his lance because he didn't start any fight, he simply broke the carrier's head into four pieces. I strongly feel that a more accurated translation would be:

(...) once more lifted his lance, and without starting any chivalrous fight, made more than three of the second carrier's head, for he laid it open in four.

In these first chapters, Don Quixote is a killer! :eek: :lol:

This is from the Burton Raffel translation:
"... without quite smashing it into little bits, certainly split the second muledriver's head into more than three pieces, for he laid it open in at least four places."

[Broken mirror]

Much better :thumbs_up

[grace86]

Wow thanks broken mirror, that definitely gives one a bit of insight. Quixote definitely doesn't go around bashing people like he did do in the first part.

[Virgil]

Wow thanks broken mirror, that definitely gives one a bit of insight. Quixote definitely doesn't go around bashing people like he did do in the first part.

Why do you think Cervantes tones that down after the first few chapters?

[grace86]

Why do you think Cervantes tones that down after the first few chapters?

I can make a lame attempt at answering that..:D

Supposedly he was going to create a satire bashing on these chivalry novels. So many people, like the priest, keep talking about how they are garbage. If Don Quixote is mad and goes around killing people, I think readers might focus a little more on his killing and less on the fact that that books were detrimental to him.

Grr...it could be looked at in many ways. Because even if he did spend the entire novel killing people, you could still say that because he is doing it from the books' influence, Cervantes is still proving the books bad. And if he is just stupidly crazy, you could still blame it on the books.

But maybe Cervantes began to enjoy his character. His book is a chivalric romance, the very books he was supposedly condemning. Maybe he changes pace or tones it down because he changed his mind? Or to remain ambiguous in his themes of Don Quixote.

Cervantes probably meant for Quixote to be a crazy old man, not a killer. He probably used the death mentioned above to demonstrate the dangers of the books. But I don't think Quixote would be as lovable a character had he gone around killing people in his insanity........it would just creep me out!!

I'm trying to get somewhere, but I am losing it, it's a little too late...tear it apart and maybe I can elaborate later. Not too sure I am answering the WHY.

[Virgil]

I think that makes sense Grace. I agree.

[grace86]

Yay, I wasn't so completely asleep then!! :banana:

Does anyone have any thoughts on my post (#59)?

[Broken mirror]

Yes, I agree too. If Quixote had carried on killing he would have never been so endearing.

On your post, grace, you're expounding one of the most interesting matters in the novel. I have no solution. Don Quixote lies sometimes, but definitely he believes in what he is saying in most of the book.

[NickAdams]

I've been collecting my findings and will post tomorrow.

I will wait to read all of the other postings after I finish the book. I don't want to spoil anything for myself.

[JHannley]

I picked this book off my bookshelf where it must have been for more than 30 years! I think it was an assigned text for my Humanities course at the Univ. of Ariz. in 1970. I, too find it humorous although, I don't think I have laughed out loud an I am on about chapter 30. This is the Putnam translation. One member, a student, I think posted a request for help to sort out the narration. Her teacher was unable to convey this, no surprise. What do you all think of the strange appearance of the novel about Don Quijote's adventures in the narration itself? It's a little like holding up two mirrors opposing each other. I believe it is the Duke he encouters after the episode in which he smashes the puppets who states that he is familiar with DQ because he is reading the book! Strange! Isn't it Carrasco (jr.?) who first reveals the existence of the book about DQ? Please comment.

I picked this book off my bookshelf where it must have been for more than 30 years! I think it was an assigned text for my Humanities course at the Univ. of Ariz. in 1970. I, too find it humorous although, I don't think I have laughed out loud an I am on about chapter 30. This is the Putnam translation. One member, a student, I think posted a request for help to sort out the narration. Her teacher was unable to convey this, no surprise. What do you all think of the strange appearance of the novel about Don Quijote's adventures in the narration itself? It's a little like holding up two mirrors opposing each other. I believe it is the Duke he encouters after the episode in which he smashes the puppets who states that he is familiar with DQ because he is reading the book! Strange! Isn't it Carrasco (jr.?) who first reveals the existence of the book about DQ? Please comment.

[grace86]

Hah! I am posting in this thread again (nothing regarding the reading specifically, but just because I can)...I've picked up reading again, I have less than three hundred pages and I am reading about a chapter or two a day. Slow yes, but student life is very demanding.

How is everyone else? Sorry about dropping out for awhile!

[Virgil]

I'm back to reading Don Quixote. I'm 11 chapters into the second part. I really enjoyed the Don's first meeting with Dulcinea. That was hilarious and I liked the way she hopped on the donkey to get away from him. :lol:

[grace86]

...and the way she talked and the way she smelled huh Virgil! I loved how she was described in that part of the book. Poor Don Quixote and those nasty enchanters!! What did they do to her!!! ;)

I should be finished within the next three weeks. Then I think I might try to read Sons and Lovers since I was behind on that reading.

Maybe even a short story or two......

[Virgil]

...and the way she talked and the way she smelled huh Virgil! I loved how she was described in that part of the book. Poor Don Quixote and those nasty enchanters!! What did they do to her!!! ;)

I should be finished within the next three weeks. Then I think I might try to read Sons and Lovers since I was behind on that reading.

Maybe even a short story or two......

Hi Grace. Glad you're still working on it. I'm almost mid way through Part II. I loved the whole Cave of Metissor (spelling?) episode. I thought that was fascinating.

[grace86]

Hi Grace. Glad you're still working on it. I'm almost mid way through Part II. I loved the whole Cave of Metissor (spelling?) episode. I thought that was fascinating.

In my translation it's called the Cave of Montesinos. There is a really great part with the duke and duchess (hmm or is it the count and countess :lol: ) where there is a wooden horse and Don Quixote and Sancho have to ride "through the air" blindfolded...and Sancho tells these stories about seeing the universe. Well Don Quixote tells Sancho "I want you to believe what I saw down in the cave of Montesinos like you want me to believe what you saw..."

If you have gotten to that part Virgil let me know, I would love to discuss what that means.

[Virgil]

In my translation it's called the Cave of Montesinos. There is a really great part with the duke and duchess (hmm or is it the count and countess :lol: ) where there is a wooden horse and Don Quixote and Sancho have to ride "through the air" blindfolded...and Sancho tells these stories about seeing the universe. Well Don Quixote tells Sancho "I want you to believe what I saw down in the cave of Montesinos like you want me to believe what you saw..."

If you have gotten to that part Virgil let me know, I would love to discuss what that means.

That's what the cave is called for me too, I just couldn't remember. You mean that they go back to the cave and Sancho goes in? No I'm not up to that part. That sounds wonderful! I can't wait. :)

[PanzaFan]

Hello, I am new to the forum but I began reading Quixote a few days ago and have almost finished part one. I am having a wonderful time. I have laughed out load so often my own family thinks I have lost my senses. I can't help but feel alot like Sancho, caught by my own ignorance and assaulted constantly by others blundering misfortune. I admitt to loving this book. I searched out a group such as this to aid in my uneducated interpretations and find that I am equally entertained by your posts. If I sound pompous it is a ruse, please consider it my inability to disconnect from a good read. I suppose in that I also relate quite well to the Don. In reality I am simply happy to share this book with others, as I find myself surrounded by literary children most of the time.

[Etienne]

In my translation it's called the Cave of Montesinos. There is a really great part with the duke and duchess (hmm or is it the count and countess :lol: ) where there is a wooden horse and Don Quixote and Sancho have to ride "through the air" blindfolded...and Sancho tells these stories about seeing the universe. Well Don Quixote tells Sancho "I want you to believe what I saw down in the cave of Montesinos like you want me to believe what you saw..."

If you have gotten to that part Virgil let me know, I would love to discuss what that means.

This part is awesome! I think that in fact Don Quixote is not completely crazy (or at least is starting to be disillusioned) but is still hanging to it at that point. He doesn't really believe what Sancho saw but accepts to believe it if Sancho doesn't question his visions in the cave.

He has managed to convince himself of something, of a fantasy, because he took books for truth. At first his hallucinations were genuine, he really thought this was all true, but then at some point, enchanters-ways-are-mysterious might have been a good answer once, but every time, it made him start doubting in the depths of himself, although on surface he was still crazy but was trying to hold on this fantasy, he had gone too far already, he couldn't admit the truth even though it was half-consciously. It was some thoughts occurring to him that he was trying to hide. Now this very passage you mentioned shows the trust and friendship he has for Sancho, by partly admitting to him his doubts, but it is by asking Sancho to play the game, to help him hold to his illusions.

I really think the characters in this books are somewhat acting like kids, mainly Don Quixote and Sancho, but at the same time, all of them to a certain extent. I have remnisciences of when I was a kid creating myself fantasies and there was not this "need" not to really believe it at the moment, and then Sancho reminds me of those who would sometimes get into my games, as games, but still taking it seriously. A kid gets caught in his fantasies a bit like Quixote (although for Quixote, it's a sublimed version, but with the same principle applying).

[grace86]

PanzaFan I am glad to see you have joined us and that you are so excited about the read. Don't worry about finishing in a hurry either, this read isn't timed, we're all on different paces...so just enjoy it. It is so great that you find it as comical as the rest of us...it only gets better! And you do not sound pompous :p

Virgil, they do not go back to the cave, read Etienne's post, but rather, something happens to Sancho that he has kind of fabricated the details, and Don Quixote says the only way he will believe Sancho is if Sancho believes what happened while he was down in the cave by himself.

Etienne I had not thought about Don Quixote and Sancho acting as children might. That is an interesting thought and very creative. See, I was over here thinking over whether or not it would be in Don Quixote's nature to lie, but it seems like what you are saying makes more sense....do you think he's just convinced himself that what he made up is what he really saw? The description of Quixote's actions and thoughts in the cave are more vague than with Sancho....we know Sancho peeks through the cover over his eyes. So you think Sancho is really child like too? What do you think it means when Don Quixote approaches him? To me, it kind of seems like Don Quixote really knows that certain things didn't happen...is he hopeful or is there a chance he is deliberately lying?

Really do like your thoughts though. :)



He has managed to convince himself of something, of a fantasy, because he took books for truth. At first his hallucinations were genuine, he really thought this was all true, but then at some point, enchanters-ways-are-mysterious might have been a good answer once, but every time, it made him start doubting in the depths of himself, although on surface he was still crazy but was trying to hold on this fantasy, he had gone too far already, he couldn't admit the truth even though it was half-consciously. It was some thoughts occurring to him that he was trying to hide. Now this very passage you mentioned shows the trust and friendship he has for Sancho, by partly admitting to him his doubts, but it is by asking Sancho to play the game, to help him hold to his illusions.

I really think the characters in this books are somewhat acting like kids, mainly Don Quixote and Sancho, but at the same time, all of them to a certain extent. I have remnisciences of when I was a kid creating myself fantasies and there was not this "need" not to really believe it at the moment, and then Sancho reminds me of those who would sometimes get into my games, as games, but still taking it seriously. A kid gets caught in his fantasies a bit like Quixote (although for Quixote, it's a sublimed version, but with the same principle applying).


I didn't really think over your bit on "the enchanters" excuse Etienne, you think it might have gotten old even with Don Quixote to keep using that excuse? That is interesting...that he might have disillusioned himself. So do you think that as the novel progresses he is getting ever more knowledgeable of the fact that he is mad or ill? He might be using Sancho to help him hold on to the game if we think about the children comparison.

Haha that is funny because now I am thinking of the novel in terms of how a child grows, how when we are young it is easier to cling to our imagination and anything can be real, however as we start to grow up, our imaginations kind of dwindle away sometimes. At least, our imaginations are never what they were when we were kids, because if you have a bunch of twenty year olds or fourty year olds running around with armor on...we wouldn't get much done would we?

I love these last chapters in the book....but I don't want to finish it!!!! :bawling:

[PanzaFan]

I am glad to see you have joined us and that you are so excited about the read. Don't worry about finishing in a hurry either, this read isn't timed, we're all on different paces...so just enjoy it. It is so great that you find it as comical as the rest of us...it only gets better! And you do not sound pompous

Thank you for the advice and the welcome. I can't help but read quickly because I want to see what happens.
A Question:
How can Sancho not see that Don Quixote is a madman when everyone else seems to realize it within minutes of encountering him. I know Sancho is not the brightest light on the tree but it really seems impossible that he hasn't figured it out. At times I think he knows, then I realize he doesn't really. I quess like the priest and the barber in Chap 26 I am "struck with fresh admiraion at the powerful influence of Don Quixote's madness" in its ability to overpower what little sense Sancho Panza has. Can anyone explain why Cervantes may have done this to poor Sancho? Are we meant to believe he is able to ignore DQ's madness when no one else can? I am often accused of over analysis. Should I just read it has it is, be entertained (as I am) and not care that Sancho is mildly crazy too?

[grace86]

Thank you for the advice and the welcome. I can't help but read quickly because I want to see what happens.
A Question:
How can Sancho not see that Don Quixote is a madman when everyone else seems to realize it within minutes of encountering him. I know Sancho is not the brightest light on the tree but it really seems impossible that he hasn't figured it out. At times I think he knows, then I realize he doesn't really. I quess like the priest and the barber in Chap 26 I am "struck with fresh admiraion at the powerful influence of Don Quixote's madness" in its ability to overpower what little sense Sancho Panza has. Can anyone explain why Cervantes may have done this to poor Sancho? Are we meant to believe he is able to ignore DQ's madness when no one else can? I am often accused of over analysis. Should I just read it has it is, be entertained (as I am) and not care that Sancho is mildly crazy too?


:D Sancho is a simple country man. He's mentioned before that he thinks his master is a little crazy, but I think what helps to keep him by his side is 1) he likes Don Quixote, and 2) Quixote has promised him an island...now why he believes his master is crazy and that he will somehow get an island from a crazy man is beyond me, but you're definitely right, Sancho isn't the brightest. He seems to be VERY country...hard working, loves to make sure he has a place to sleep and food to eat, God fearing, and when someone offers to give him a break...like an island, he's willing to go for it.

But even Sancho has his limits. Remember when he got beat so badly and thrown up in the blanket?? Well there's several occasions where he is ready to give up an island because the work/pain isn't worth it. Working back in the country life would be easier in those cases. I think he's also ignorant...he is uneducated.

[Etienne]

For Sancho, I think grace has it right. He's a simple man. Also he has grown to respect, obey and admire Don Quixote and the attraction of the island, even though he doesn't really believe it at the end (until...). He does believe it at the beginning, however I think it's a bit like Quixote madness, he is getting disillusioned, but he doesn't want to, he is ready to go through hardships and abstain from "squire sins", but he always manages anyway to "sin", which is what allows him to endure it. The promised island could be compared, if we are to follow the religious image, as heaven. And then, later, the more he's already disillusioned, the farther he has already walked down the path, and the harder it becomes to just "throw it all away" so the more he's getting entangled.

So I believe that both character's psychology is similar, however with different illusions, desires, causes, etc. and that it is a satirical image of human psychology.

"do you think he's just convinced himself that what he made up is what he really saw? The description of Quixote's actions and thoughts in the cave are more vague than with Sancho...."

I do think he's convincing himself, but not in a rational sense, a much more irrational. Let's say his imagination has grown bigger than his rationality (or his rationally shrinked smaller) so he doesn't really need to have hallucinations or visions to believe something (although at the beginning I do think hallucinations are not excluded, even if I'm skeptic about it). Really I'm laughing here in nostalgia as I remember when I was a child, the difference between reality and fantasy was really thin, and if I imagined something, I could convince myself of it, but in a very naive way. For example, I knew I wouldn't have seen, let's say a tiger, but imagination was sometimes stronger than more boring reality, and I didn't see any reason I would have not to be convinced by my imagination, it was simply more fun. Of course, this was not articulated like this rationally, but that's the analysis I come to retroactively, from my now rational and boring self :p

"we know Sancho peeks through the cover over his eyes. So you think Sancho is really child like too? What do you think it means when Don Quixote approaches him? To me, it kind of seems like Don Quixote really knows that certain things didn't happen...is he hopeful or is there a chance he is deliberately lying?"

Yes, I think Sancho is very much like a child. but he doesn't believe at all the visions he described while he traveled, it's more of a game for him, in part to please Don Quixote and be perhaps closer to him by sharing his world as he admires the Don. And yes, I totally agree with the fact that he knows it didn't happen, but refuting Sancho, would at the same time destroy Quixote's world. What can he tell Sancho? You're lying we haven't been flying like you said because... it's impossible? That's something Quixote cannot do without without destroying the fragile belief he has and the barely hanging trust, or at least politeness of Sancho towards his visions. So it feels like he's almost making a pause to "fix" this and make a deal with Sancho to continue on perhaps more solid bases, as at this point Quixote's "world" is almost crumbling. And then the game continue, even though tit might cause a small timidity, but in the long-run simply made the trust and friendship of both much stronger.

[Hira]

I suppose you've all finished the book? I just started it, am on chapter 10 at the moment. The translation I have is that of Charles Jarvis or Jervas. They say its too formal. Anyway.

Is nobody going to post in this thread anymore?





I do think he's convincing himself, but not in a rational sense, a much more irrational. Let's say his imagination has grown bigger than his rationality (or his rationally shrinked smaller) so he doesn't really need to have hallucinations or visions to believe something (although at the beginning I do think hallucinations are not excluded, even if I'm skeptic about it). Really I'm laughing here in nostalgia as I remember when I was a child, the difference between reality and fantasy was really thin, and if I imagined something, I could convince myself of it, but in a very naive way. For example, I knew I wouldn't have seen, let's say a tiger, but imagination was sometimes stronger than more boring reality, and I didn't see any reason I would have not to be convinced by my imagination, it was simply more fun. Of course, this was not articulated like this rationally, but that's the analysis I come to retroactively, from my now rational and boring self :p


I don't completely comprehend that either. Taking the episode with the windmills for instance, did he actually 'saw' those giants or he 'convinced' himself that they were giants and not windmills? As a child, would you be as thoroughly convinced as Don Quixote is? Is he really well, mad as they say, or he doesn't want to see the outside reality? Alright, the books on knight-errantry have tampered with his mind but ... I don't know. Maybe he truly, honestly, sincerely believes in all of it. Do you think we all do that? Believe in far-fetched, ridiculous suppositions and yet laugh at this more obvious departure from sanity of Don Quixote.

[grace86]

I suppose you've all finished the book? I just started it, am on chapter 10 at the moment. The translation I have is that of Charles Jarvis or Jervas. They say its too formal. Anyway.

Is nobody going to post in this thread anymore?




I don't completely comprehend that either. Taking the episode with the windmills for instance, did he actually 'saw' those giants or he 'convinced' himself that they were giants and not windmills? As a child, would you be as thoroughly convinced as Don Quixote is? Is he really well, mad as they say, or he doesn't want to see the outside reality? Alright, the books on knight-errantry have tampered with his mind but ... I don't know. Maybe he truly, honestly, sincerely believes in all of it. Do you think we all do that? Believe in far-fetched, ridiculous suppositions and yet laugh at this more obvious departure from sanity of Don Quixote.

Hello Hira! Welcome to the read...no not all of us are finished with the book. I am trying to finish the last fifty pages while I am currently on vacation. Glad to see you are with us, take your time and just enjoy the novel. We are still posting here I just think a lot of us have gotten caught up in other reads and in the holiday stuff.

Later on toward the end of the book there is a story where Don Quixote asks a question to a jasper stone bust...he asks it that if what happened in the cave of montesinos really did happen. I know you have not read that far (or a lot of you for that matter) but I think this is important because when he asks this statue this question, it really is obvious that Don Quixote himself does not know for sure whether the cave of montesinos really happened. It seems like he needs this kind of confirmation from an "outside magical force."

Enjoy the read and post any questions or comments as you like...we will all be around. I will try to check this thread more often seeing as how I am almost done with it.

Hope everyone else is doing well on their read.

[Petrarch's Love]

Hi all. Like Hira, I have just started a rather leisurely read of D.Q., and thought I'd check here to see if anyone else was still in the early-ish part of their reading. Perhaps Hira and I can chat at least, and I can go back and read earlier posts to see the others' thoughts while going through. :)

[Etienne]

I don't completely comprehend that either. Taking the episode with the windmills for instance, did he actually 'saw' those giants or he 'convinced' himself that they were giants and not windmills? As a child, would you be as thoroughly convinced as Don Quixote is? Is he really well, mad as they say, or he doesn't want to see the outside reality? Alright, the books on knight-errantry have tampered with his mind but ... I don't know. Maybe he truly, honestly, sincerely believes in all of it. Do you think we all do that? Believe in far-fetched, ridiculous suppositions and yet laugh at this more obvious departure from sanity of Don Quixote.

Yes I think he did see visions at the beginning and later (it would be hard to believe he did not have visions at the beginning), however you do realize that at some point he stops taking taverns for castles. for example? Also his later adventures are not made around visions but are arranged by some people or happen for real.

[NickAdams]

Yes I think he did see visions at the beginning and later (it would be hard to believe he did not have visions at the beginning), however you do realize that at some point he stops taking taverns for castles. for example? Also his later adventures are not made around visions but are arranged by some people or happen for real.

Are the later adventures caused by his earlier actions?

[Etienne]

Are the later adventures caused by his earlier actions?

Well, indirectly. Read it you'll see :lol:

[NickAdams]

Well, indirectly. Read it you'll see :lol:

Fantasy becomes reality, which the narrative reflects, I wan't to keep reading but I changed my approach to literature. I doing a chronological reading. Starting with the ancient text: Beowolf, Gilgamesh, The Bible and so on.

[Etienne]

Fantasy becomes reality, which the narrative reflects, I wan't to keep reading but I changed my approach to literature. I doing a chronological reading. Starting with the ancient text: Beowolf, Gilgamesh, The Bible and so on.

If you want to read it nothing is stopping you beside yourself... so if you want to burden yourself with boring methods, that's your choice! :P You can always use the excuse that Don Quixote was the first novel ever written.

[NickAdams]

If you want to read it nothing is stopping you beside yourself... so if you want to burden yourself with boring methods, that's your choice! :P You can always use the excuse that Don Quixote was the first novel ever written.

That's true, but I made a rule not to deviate, but there isn't a lot that I want to read, before Quixote.

[Hira]

Hello Hira! Welcome to the read...no not all of us are finished with the book. I am trying to finish the last fifty pages while I am currently on vacation. Glad to see you are with us, take your time and just enjoy the novel. We are still posting here I just think a lot of us have gotten caught up in other reads and in the holiday stuff.

Later on toward the end of the book there is a story where Don Quixote asks a question to a jasper stone bust...he asks it that if what happened in the cave of montesinos really did happen. I know you have not read that far (or a lot of you for that matter) but I think this is important because when he asks this statue this question, it really is obvious that Don Quixote himself does not know for sure whether the cave of montesinos really happened. It seems like he needs this kind of confirmation from an "outside magical force."

Enjoy the read and post any questions or comments as you like...we will all be around. I will try to check this thread more often seeing as how I am almost done with it.

Hope everyone else is doing well on their read.

Hello Grace! Thank you for the welcome. So he saw it but needs confirmation if it was a hallucination or not? Meaning he is seeing still, as he saw, but is now actually questioning the truth of his visions? Hope I reach that far soon. To the cave of montesinos. Doesn't look like it though with the way I am going.


Hi all. Like Hira, I have just started a rather leisurely read of D.Q., and thought I'd check here to see if anyone else was still in the early-ish part of their reading. Perhaps Hira and I can chat at least, and I can go back and read earlier posts to see the others' thoughts while going through. :)

Yeah, I'd love to discuss. Going a bit slow at the moment though. Will quit perhaps for a day or two coz of the Eid over here, then go on, hopefully a bit faster.


Yes I think he did see visions at the beginning and later (it would be hard to believe he did not have visions at the beginning), however you do realize that at some point he stops taking taverns for castles. for example? Also his later adventures are not made around visions but are arranged by some people or happen for real.

I am just at the beginning at the moment. Haven't reached that point. Does he eventually stop? No, on a second thought, don't tell:)

[Virgil]

How can Sancho not see that Don Quixote is a madman when everyone else seems to realize it within minutes of encountering him. I know Sancho is not the brightest light on the tree but it really seems impossible that he hasn't figured it out. At times I think he knows, then I realize he doesn't really.
Oh I think Sancho himself says in a few places that Don Quixote is mad. I think it's just the nature of Don Quixote's maddness is one where he mostly copes with reality and that Sancho, despite his knowledge of Don's maddness has faith in him to succeed. And so he follows him.


I quess like the priest and the barber in Chap 26 I am "struck with fresh admiraion at the powerful influence of Don Quixote's madness" in its ability to overpower what little sense Sancho Panza has. Can anyone explain why Cervantes may have done this to poor Sancho? Are we meant to believe he is able to ignore DQ's madness when no one else can? I am often accused of over analysis. Should I just read it has it is, be entertained (as I am) and not care that Sancho is mildly crazy too?
I don't find Sancho crazy at all. Plus I see Sancho as not having a "little" sense, but perhaps too much sense.

Hey, I'm down to my last hundred pages!!

[Petrarch's Love]

I'm a bit hurried at moment, but when I have the time I would love to make a few posts going back to the earlier parts of the discussion about the introduction and some beginning episodes. My question: do those who are nearer the end mind some posts referring back, or would this disrupt your discussion and I should just make up another thread to post thoughts on the earlier portions of D.Q.?

[grace86]

I'm a bit hurried at moment, but when I have the time I would love to make a few posts going back to the earlier parts of the discussion about the introduction and some beginning episodes. My question: do those who are nearer the end mind some posts referring back, or would this disrupt your discussion and I should just make up another thread to post thoughts on the earlier portions of D.Q.?

Of course none of us mind going back to earlier chapters!!! :p I want all of us to get our fair share of questions, comments and answers in! And Petrarch please take your time reading, don't hurry so that you catch up to us because I don't want you to miss out on a really good read. Take your time.

I just finished on Saturday (I think it took me over three months to read this)...and I think I like the second half of the book a lot better than the first part. There are so many different types of adventures. But I will try not to discuss the ending too much so that those of you who are still in the beginning won't get any spoilers.

Can't talk too much at the moment, Christmas Eve...but when I get back home and to my laptop maybe we can get into some more detailed discussion.

I did notice that a lot of Quixote's adventures toward the end of the book were at the hands of the people he meets and not solely by his imagination. Cervantes plays a lot in the second half of the book with the fact that in real life someone falsely published a second part to Don Quixote...it seems like Cervantes uses this to make the characters in the book known of Quixote's adventures....and so the people he meets end up egging him on I think.

Hope Eid and Christmas is well for everyone. Happy holidays.

[Etienne]

Yes the second part of the book and the inclusion of the apocryphal book inside it is amazingly funny and witty. You know how in the first part he said he would be going to a tournament (was it Barcelona?) and in the apocryphal second part he goes to that tournament. Then in Cervantes' second part Quixote decides, just to prove the apocryphal book wrong, to go to a tournament in some other city instead... I loved that.

[Virgil]

I'm a bit hurried at moment, but when I have the time I would love to make a few posts going back to the earlier parts of the discussion about the introduction and some beginning episodes. My question: do those who are nearer the end mind some posts referring back, or would this disrupt your discussion and I should just make up another thread to post thoughts on the earlier portions of D.Q.?

Would love to hear your comments Petrarch. I'll definetely will go back and relook at parts you question.

[Virgil]

I finally finished yesterday!!! What a great work. I loved this. It's something I will definitely need to reread in a few years.

Well, my next excursion is a reading of The Aeneid. I will start a discussion thread. If you are interested in reading along, please join in.

[ArchCarrier]

Hello, this is my first post here. A couple of weeks ago I started a read-more-classic-literature program. I finished Gulliver's Travels mid-December, and spent a big part of my Christmas holiday reading Don Quixote, of which I have about 250 pages to go. After I have finished it, I will start on the Greek and Roman classics.
I decided I needed to find a community with which I could discuss the works that I am reading, and after checking out some message boards, I settled on the Literature Network.

So, without delaying the matter further, I want to touch on something I read upthread:

Have you noticed that the tone in the first chapters of Don Quixote is rather cruel? Don Quixote kills a man, a real man: he breaks his head in three pieces.
Don Quixote doesn't kill him (although it would be hard to live on with a head broken in four pieces :) ), because in the next paragraph Cervantes writes about the "friends of the wounded" (plural, since the original Spanish reads "Los compañeros de los heridos"). I haven't started counting from the beginning, but I believe the only person that dies in the book is SPOILER! Quixote himself.

[PanzaFan]

I have finished Quixote. I absolutely loved every part. I could not help but feel that the Duke and Duchess were a little cruel to Sancho but of course they also valued him. As I read part 2, I gained a better understanding of the relationship between Sancho and Quxiote. I felt that both men were more aware of the Don's madness in the second part, even Don Quixote himself.


the inclusion of the apocryphal book inside it [Part II] is amazingly funny and witty

I completely agree.

[Gracewings]

I have finally gotten back to reading Don Quixote. I'm at about P. 350 if there is anyone around who would still like to discuss the book. :)

[Virgil]

Well, it's still fresh in my mind, somewhat. What would you like to discuss Gracewings? Plus you can look through the thread and comment on what's already been said.

[J.D.]

I'm still up for talking about Quixote. I read it this summer, along with a lengthy biography about Cervantes. What I found most interesting is that everyone who thought Don Quixote was mad eventually took part in his fantasy out of his or her own free will--whether it was for a laugh, like the Duke and Duchess, or to cure Quixote, which was the goal of the barber, priest, and bachelor. It was as if they, too, wished this world of knight-errantry and chivalry really existed, as if they, too, wanted to take part in it subconsciously and so used Quixote as an excuse to do so.

As for himself, he wasn't crazy at all in part two, in my opinion. There are a couple of points that confirm this, hints that he consciously upholds the fantasy. The bottom line is this: He simply refused to give in to the fact that the world was what it was--he figured if he kept acting like his world existed, he could will it to be--and, if you look at how the other characters fall into his world, he was right. I admire him because he didn't let the fact that the world couldn't uphold its end of the bargain affect what he did with his life--at least until the end. The message is that just because there is a sad, cruel, corrupt world around us doesn't mean we have to become sad, cruel, or corrupt.

The other characters begin to learn this from Don Quixote. Consider the end of the book, when Quixote is dying. The priest, the barber, and the bachelor all call him Don Quixote again to try to coax the old enthusiasm out of him. I would argue they do this not only to try to help him fight illness, but because they too realize they don't actually want Don Quixote to end--despite all they've done to "cure him". They, too, wish that the world could be based on principles, that there were such things as true heroes. They want Don Quixote back.

Some might say Don Quixote was a fool who died of his own unrealistic expectations. I say it was the world's fault; Don Quixote was noble and upstanding, brave and wise. The world let Don Quixote down by failing to reach its potential.

[Gracewings]

I finally finished Don Quixote!

I very much enjoyed your post, JD, especially this:
Some might say Don Quixote was a fool who died of his own unrealistic expectations. I say it was the world's fault; Don Quixote was noble and upstanding, brave and wise. The world let Don Quixote down by failing to reach its potential.

[grace86]

I am glad you finished Don Quixote, Gracewings. Sometimes it takes awhile but I hope it was definitely worth the read for you.

Yes, J.D. your post was fantastic and I agree with your observations fully. He didn't let the world get him down on what he wanted to do. Quixote definitely made the best with what he had and made his world a wonderful place to live. I think what happened also was that maybe those around Don Quixote began to enjoy his world and would miss it when it was gone. He grasped at something they perhaps couldn't grasp on their own. Some people went to such extreme lengths to pretend his world existed, but it was definitely real to Don Quixote himself.

It was nice to see new posts here.

[Gracewings]

I am glad you finished Don Quixote, Gracewings. Sometimes it takes awhile but I hope it was definitely worth the read for you.

It definitely was worth my time. I feel very fortunate that I had the Edith Grossman translation. It was easy to keep reading through the text with the footnotes to help with the many Latin phrases; also, it was amazing how well she translated little rhyming poems and Sancho's many mix-ups. For instance, you can see this section in Google books (http://books.google.com/books?hl=en&id=L-jcS4VVxGoC&dq=don+quixote+edith+grossman&printsec=frontcover&source=web&ots=74oxifGRN2&sig=uhCCtPLXD0dw7ZqvTmN9vSn8VmE&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=5&ct=result#PRA1-PA498,M1): the passage starts near the bottom of p. 497 with:
"Convinced is what you mean, Sancho..." and ends with:


"I'll bet," said Sancho, "you knew what I was saying and understood me from the beginning, but wanted to mix me up so you could hear me make another two hundred mistakes." :p

That seems to set the tone for the latter part of the book when they are with the Duke and Duchess who seem to delight in every aspect of their characters. It was somewhat unsettling though that they went to such trouble to set them up while also appearing to genuinely care for the two. :confused:

[Basil Valentine]

I read this earlier this year (the Grossman version) having had it sitting on a shelf for some time. I must admit, the sheer size of it intimidated me a bit, but once I started it I found it extremely easy to read. I had intended to read the first half, then take a break but ended up reading right through as I enjoyed it so much. I would echo the comment about how well Grossman translated the many lingual puns, rhymes and so on - if anything the translation was so good it made the book seem too modern and easy to read!

I've always been interested in chivalric literature (I even slogged my way through Von Eschenbach's Parzival last year) and this probably helped propel me through the heavier parts.

I would heartily recommend it to anyone thinking about reading it.

[grace86]

That seems to set the tone for the latter part of the book when they are with the Duke and Duchess who seem to delight in every aspect of their characters. It was somewhat unsettling though that they went to such trouble to set them up while also appearing to genuinely care for the two. :confused:

Perhaps the Duke and Duchess really did care for the two and so fed into their adventures? But another aspect could be that they really did care for them because of the enjoyment Don Quixote and Sancho brought to their lives?

Hmm...maybe they aided in their adventures because the Duke and Duchess could still enjoy the "insanity" of it all without having to be seen as insane themselves? I don't know, it is confusing, I will admit that much. But then I ask these questions of most the characters in the book.

I will have to check out the Grossman translation one of these days. I read the Penguin edition and so it had a different translator which I mentioned early on. It wasn't all that bad to read though.

[nessgavin]

I'm glad I just found this forum. I have been reading Don Quixote for a couple of weeks. I'm up to chapter 23. I'm in love with this book. I think it has so many ideas and themes, it's like a kalaidoscope, an illusion itself.

I am taking a class on this and find my reactions to be different than most of the people in the class. I'd love to bounce my ideas off of someone else.

[nessgavin]

I'm enjoying everyone's posts although I'm a bit late. I've just begun reading Part 2. Don Quixote is obsessing me and I think it may be the greatest novel I've ever read. Trying to determine what is real and what is illusion...that's life, isn't it?

I've been reading my whole life and I think that sometimes that can remove you from the truth. Movies as well. Any art. Life is not a story, a painting or a movie. There are times in my life when the unexpected catastrophe left me confused. Doesn't there have to be a happy ending? Sometimes it seems life is one long process of disillusionment, exactly like this book.

[Virgil]

Welcome to lit net Ness. I'm glad you're enjoying it. It really was a wonderful book. :)

[nessgavin]

Glad I found this thread. I had totally forgotten that he'd killed someone! No wonder my classmates don't like him. This is a very complicated book and can't be read quickly.

[grace86]

Glad I found this thread. I had totally forgotten that he'd killed someone! No wonder my classmates don't like him. This is a very complicated book and can't be read quickly.

Glad you found the thread too! Welcome to LitNet. I saw you were reading Don Quixote from one of the other threads, and Janine told you to head this way. Anything you feel like discussing on Don Quixote of course is welcomed. I am interested in hearing your thoughts and reactions that seem to be different than your classmates'! I read it the summer before this one, but I will be happy to go back to it!

[nessgavin]

I not only feel that I'm reading DonQuixote, I'm living it. I see him every day in myself and in others and the world in general.

I was very upset about the election results. It hit me harder than any other election. Somehow it meshed with my reading of DQ. Then, it occurred to me, last saturday night, that I'd lost my mind, just as DQ had! The beginning of the book says that if you read too much you will lose your mind. In one moment I realized that I had lost my mind as I was reading DQ as history. It was real to me. But there is no DQ or Sancho. This is fiction. Then I realized the point Cervantes was making. I had gotten sucked in, just as DQ had. The poems, the historical tidbits (the battle of Lepanto, etc), the Arab translator, helped me to believe the story was true. But it's not. When we read enough books and see enough movies and tv shows, we start to believe that real life has "rules". Like the rules of "knight errantry". We apply the rules to real life as though real life has to conform to them. And when they don't, we're shocked and disillusioned.
That's where the election comes in. The war hero is supposed to win. The man who dedicated his life to his country and held up honor above self-interest, who honored his contract to limit campaign funds, refused to be released from a prison camp early, etc. is supposed to win. But this is not a story. this is real life and the man who broke the contract won. I don't want to get too political about this, but it put me in a funk for over a week. I did not realize that part of the reason was my disillusionment. As has happened at other times in my life I've had expectations based on literature or movies and when the happy ending doesn't happen, it's more than disappointment or saddness, it's a kind of confusion that sets in. I feel like saying "Wait! That can't be right! This is not how it happens!" and, of course, that's exactly what DQ would say!

My class got it today. I think there are endless threads in this novel. I think it might be the best novel I have ever read as it never stops revealing it's secrets.

One more thing. Last week's class discussion brought Machiavelli to mind. His book (The Prince) was published some years before DQ and I think that it is reflected in the book. Machiavelli basically said that real life has no moral rules. Breaking the contract is the way to win. Honor is pointless. The ends justify the means. I think that Cervantes idealism was crushed by the world. He was a war hero. He got no reward. His disillusionment and possibly his understanding of and acceptance of Machiavelli's truth is reflected in the this book. I should mention that I have not yet finished the book so I can't really make any final conclusions.

[Joe Beamish]

I want to read Quixote for the first time, but am confused about which translation to proceed with.

John Updike says he prefers the Motteux translation for its "peppery stew", next to which the most recent translations seem "watery". However, this same Motteux translation was famously dubbed "worthless" by a later translator, John Ormsby.

Should I just go forward with Grossman? Or what? There are at least three English translations even in the last decade....

Thanks
JB

[Virgil]

I want to read Quixote for the first time, but am confused about which translation to proceed with.

John Updike says he prefers the Motteux translation for its "peppery stew", next to which the most recent translations seem "watery". However, this same Motteux translation was famously dubbed "worthless" by a later translator, John Ormsby.

Should I just go forward with Grossman? Or what? There are at least three English translations even in the last decade....

Thanks
JB

Read through this thread from the beginning. We discuss translations.

[nessgavin]

I'm reading the Raffel translation.

[Joe Beamish]

Virgil -- I've looked through the thread, and find only a few scant remarks on the comparative merits of different English translations. Feel free to quote any posts that you feel settle the matter. Thanks.

I'm leaning toward Smollett, based on the introduction to a modern volume by Carlos Fuentes, and on Salmon Rushdie's glowing remarks. And I think I'll keep a volume of Grossman on hand as well.

Thanks all
JB

[grace86]

Virgil -- I've looked through the thread, and find only a few scant remarks on the comparative merits of different English translations. Feel free to quote any posts that you feel settle the matter. Thanks.

I'm leaning toward Smollett, based on the introduction to a modern volume by Carlos Fuentes, and on Salmon Rushdie's glowing remarks. And I think I'll keep a volume of Grossman on hand as well.

Thanks all
JB

I heard wonderful things about Grossman's translation, but for some reason or another I avoided that one. I can't remember why, but I will look into it for you.

nessgavin I plan on addressing some of the things you bring up in your post. Hold tight for a little while and I will get to it, time isn't permitting right now.

[Virgil]

Virgil -- I've looked through the thread, and find only a few scant remarks on the comparative merits of different English translations. Feel free to quote any posts that you feel settle the matter. Thanks.

I'm leaning toward Smollett, based on the introduction to a modern volume by Carlos Fuentes, and on Salmon Rushdie's glowing remarks. And I think I'll keep a volume of Grossman on hand as well.

Thanks all
JB

Oh sorry. Perhaps it was another thread where we discussed translations. I used the Grossman translation and found it well written. I can't swear to it's accuracy but I think Grossman is a well respected translator of Spanish into English.

[Joe Beamish]

grace86 and Virgil -- Thanks for your replies.

grace86, I too have been hesitant about the Grossman translation in the face of rave reviews -- perhaps specifically because of the rave reviews, and Harold Bloom's introduction.

The further that Bloom wanders from Shakespeare and the Bible, the less interested I usually am in his perspective. Although he typically advocates the "difficult pleasure" of reading in favor of the academy's now firmly entrenched practice pigeonholing books into politically correct categories, I don't always get the feeling that he's having a lot of fun even in the books he purportedly loves.

I also suspect that the Grossman translation will share the merits and faults of so many artistic enterprises in today's America: Accurate to the letter, but missing something in spirit, like a movie that's superbly faithful to the period clothing and bric-a-brac, but not necessarily the stuff underneath.

Smollet, himself a novelist, at least posthumously enjoys the highest praise of novelists Salmon Rushdie and Carlos Fuentes for his translation.

[TheFifthElement]

Hey! I've just started reading Don Quixote and am most impressed. I don't know if my translation is any good or not but I'm liking it (especially as it cost me all of £1.00 from the charity shop - whoopee!).

Interestingly it was The New York Trilogy that got me interested in Don Quixote. There's a whole section about a theory about who wrote Don Quixote in City of Glass and it intrigued me. Not disappointed so far.

[Hairy Faery]

Hello!
I'm new on this site, but am quickly falling in love with it!
I picked up Don Quixote this summer on a recommendation (from Tom Sawyer!)
You have intrigued me to read it right away! I would love to chat about it when I get through it!

[nessgavin]

Good luck Hairy. I just finished it about an hour ago. Choked me up. But more than that, trying to figure it all out. It's a puzzle. So many ways to read it.

[grace86]

I'm glad so many have found an interest in reading Don Quixote. Glad you finished it Nessgavin! It does choke you up, after reading it and getting so involved with Don Quixote and Sancho, it is hard to put down after the pages are up. I cried at the sheer fact that the book was over!!

Beamish, what translation did you end up settling on?

I loved the fact that there were so many ways to read the book. It was multi faceted, if I wanted to think about it in a more analytical way...the possibilities are endless, but if I just wanted to enjoy a good tale on knight errantry and chivalry..it was that too. So have fun thinking on it. It definitely occupies one's thoughts for awhile.

[nessgavin]

Glad you liked it Grace. So many read it as a simple story, but I can't imagine how that could be. I don't know if you're familiar with Plato's dialogs but the book reminded me of them. It raises a million questions.

[Manchegan]

i read grossman's edition and found it awesome. Bloom's intro was dull and more about hamlet than don quixote.

I've never read any other translations, but found that once i let my internal voice have a spansih accent and tempo, grossman's read fluently. It doesn't work with anglo cadences.

most of her footnotes were great, but many interruptted the story to tell me about some old spanish governor i didn't care about. hope that helps.

[Virgil]

i read grossman's edition and found it awesome. Bloom's intro was dull and more about hamlet than don quixote.

I've never read any other translations, but found that once i let my internal voice have a spansih accent and tempo, grossman's read fluently. It doesn't work with anglo cadences.

most of her footnotes were great, but many interruptted the story to tell me about some old spanish governor i didn't care about. hope that helps.

Yes, I must say the Grossman translation was enjoyable. :)

[nellehs]

Hi,
I'm amazed with your discussions about the Don Quixote. Currently, I have to write an essay about risk of reading and i have to choose a book to reference to it. I think Don Quixote is the best choice. Do anyone know how to write the essay out??Need it really bad. Thanks!!!!