Pride And Prejudice Major Assignment....help Plz

[ponycrazy2002]

i have to divide the book in three parts...relating to romanticism...

1ST PART. NATURAL AND SOCIAL SETTING where i have to describe both the natural and the social setting. What part of the book takes place in England? Which levels of british society are represented?

2ND PART. MAJOR AND MINOR CHARACTER COMPARISON. where i have to compare the protagonist with a minor character, and create a topic sentence where it clearly identifies the likeliness or differences between the two.

3RD PART. CONCLUSION AND THEMATIC MESSAGE. where i have to focus on the meaning of the book's conclusion. what message is being sent to the reader. which events or choices characters make have the greatest impact on the ending.


I DONT KNOW WHERE TO START...I ONLY READ A LITTLE BIT OF THE BOOK SINCE I HAVE NO TIME BECAUSE I HAVE TO BABYSIT MY LITTLE SISTER AND WORK AND HELP MY PARENTS....PLEASE HELP ME...ITS DUE BY THE 26TH OF MAY...AND I ALREADY DID THE VISUAL FOR IT I JUST NEED HELP IN STARTING THIS ESSAY...PLEASE HELP ME:(

[nps_marina]

FIRSTLY, you have plenty of time to read the book from today to the 26th, it's a short book, and should be read anyway.

That being said:
http://www.pemberley.com/
http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/pride/

And I'll answer your questions, but in the blunt manner. You'll have to expand upon it!

PART 1: All the book takes place in England, only they move around. And all the levels of society are represented, more or less. Nobility (Lady Catherine de Bourgh) and the upper class (Fitzwilliam Darcy), the military (Wickham), the Church (Mr. Collins), and the middle class (the Bennett's themselves).

PART 2: Perhaps you could use Elizabeth Bennett and Charlotte Lucas, and look around for some quote where Elizabeth states her despise for convenience marriages and the like; versus Charlotte eventually marrying Mr Collins just because he'll do, given that she's not getting any younger.
But that's just out of the top of my head, I am sure there are far better character comparisons. You could also use the male characters for example.

PART 3: Darcy swallows his Pride, Elizabeth her Prejudices. Or the other way around: she her pride, he his prejudices. Who is supposed to be one or the other, I've always thought that both are both.
Learning to modify your rigid mind structures for the sake of those you love, nit taking everything at face value.

I would refer to it as a rather simple, though loveable, novel. No deep sub-plot, just face value.
But that's just my opinion.

Read it!!! Seriously. It's one of my favorite books!!!

[sciencefan]

That was excellent advice.
I will not confuse with anything further.

It is also one of my favorite books, too.
Please take the time to read it.
It's a nice love story, and gives you some insight into
what life was like almost 200 years ago in England.

How old are you and what grade are you in?

[chunwing]

I agree with your advice.

Only thing I would add is on the 3 part of your question. You have to keep asking yourself the question "why" in order to explain it properly. Remember, you are writing an ANALYTICAL ESSAY, not a "hotchpotch of feelings" romantic piece.

So take Marina's "Darcy swallows his Pride, Elizabeth her Prejudices" theme. Ask yourself why they do that. You should be able to work this out by their actions and choices. When you write out quotes or when you summarise a scene, always ask youself:
1) why have they decided to do a particular thing;
2) what is the impact of them doing that particular thing; and
3) how does it link back to "Darcy swallows his Pride, Elizabeth her Prejudices"?

Of course, if you want to get super high marks, you THEN ALSO explain "Or the other way around: she her pride, he his prejudices".

Personally, I think it would be quite difficult to explain both because if you do that you necessarily have to go into how the 2 inter-relate. Which means you have to go into "how pride causes prejudice and how prejudice causes pride?" And to explain that is nearly like trying to explain if Hamlet is mad or just pretending.

If I were you, I would just pick 1 side, ie the original one, "Darcy swallows his Pride, Elizabeth her Prejudices", and stick with it. Assume Darcy only has pride but has no prejudice, and assume Elizabeth only has prejudice but no pride.

Marina do you agree?

[nps_marina]

Wow!
I feel highly flattered by the praise concerning my suggestions to Ponycrazy- they were only suggestions by your average avid Austen reader!

Thanks :blush:

But coming back to the point, which is helping Ponycrazy with her assignment here, I agree with you completely, Chunwing, in the centering of the third part. Perhaps expanding on the subject would make it too loosely-based for the likes of Pony's teacher (though I don't know!); so certainly basing it all just on Darcy's pride and Elizabeth's prejudice will make it more simple.

Though (just parallel talk here Pony, don't go crazy... oh, the pun!!!!)... I sometimes suspect that, even if the more obvious symbolism to Pride and Prejudice is the one just stated, wouldn't you say that it's actually Lizzie who is too proud??? Even if Lizzie is one of the most loveable characters in literature, she can be quite snobbish... her visit to Pemberley was certainly a well-needed sobbering (does that word exist, at all?) down on what she could and couldn't ask of Darcy.

Unacceptable nowadays to believe dignity comes with money... but not so unheard-of in the times P&P happens. Ah, well, Lizzie was certainly advanced for her time...

[chunwing]

This is getting more and more interesting!

I have no doubt Lizzie is also quite proud. But of what? Just what was Austen thinking when she constructed this character. I pretend I'm her: I have more pretty sisters, I have a poor dad, I think people are probably rumouring that once my dad dies some dude called Collins will come in and kick us all out and we'd be homeless, I can read and write, but so can Jane and a lot of other ladies in town...

You know, I just can't see what she can be proud of. Obviously Lizzie dislikes the horniness of her younger sisters and the desperation of her mother - but why?? Why is she against girls flirting to get rich men? We have to keep in mind, despite all the modern day theories about how we should be down to earth and not superficial and materialistic, we have to remember that IT IS ACTUALLY A GOOD THING TO BE RICH! So why Lizzie is against it, I cannot comprehend. This is especially the case given the historical context of P&P.

The answer, I think, is that her pride comes more out of reaction to the hostility she gets. In other words, it's the classic stereotype of an arrogant person - that you act tough on the outside to hide the insecurity on the inside. Think of her first meeting with Darcy. At the beginning she was quite civil and good mannered towards him. But then the dumb **** is stupid enough to basically say, "Look at all these fat ugly girls. I wouldn't look at them even if you give me 1 million dollars!" THAT pissed Lizzie off. And I think it was in retaliation to this that Lizzie has to put up a "not care" face.

And quite possibly this explains her attitude towards Lady Catherine too. Lady Catherine was an obnoxious old woman who makes blunt comments. Lizzie couldn't handle the comments and so she retaliated.

So in summary, I think her pride arises from her lack of maturity to handle people's criticism of her. Contrast her to a successfully businessman who will eat crap if he has to in order to make money off you. Lizzie is not mature enough to do that. People say it is because she is "pure". I think it is simply immaturity and naivity.

[Amanda29]

I agree with chunwing that Elizabeth Bennet was as proud as Darcy. Although I'm not sure if her pride could be defined the same as his. Sometimes pride is closely intertwined with a sense of self-preservation and dignity. Admittedly, Lizzie was a girl of no great wealth, although her family lacked for nothing as far as servants and ball gowns (middle class). She had nothing of greater value than other girls in her circumstances, except, I believe she was far more intelligent than many of them. To me, it seemed to have had a deep rooted sense of dignity - of a high honor within herself. I don't feel that it was due to thinking herself above others, as much as an inner desire to meet her own personal goals. Though she had a rather sarcastic sense of humor and loved to laugh, I find that she was serious enough that other's ridiculous jabbering, unless particularly amusing, unnerved her.

What I don't see a lot of people mentioning is the contention within Lizzie's own family. They're a lovable family, but notice how Mr. Bennet constantly taunts his wife and she vice-versa; they seem to be opposites. I certainly agree with chunwing that she's ashamed of her lusty, silly, younger sisters who take after their flighty mother. On the other end of the spectrum, she's also bothered by the extreme serious nature of her sister Mary, who is seldom mentioned. Mary is the humorous opposite of her sisters, a bit self-rightous, condemning excitement of any type, and sticking faithfully to her music and literature to the point of being boring. Lizzie seems to be a happy medium between the two. Yet, amongst such differences in personalities, she must defend her dignity with a sense of pride, holding herself slightly above her younger sisters. It really has nothing to do with money or social class. And it has everything to do with wishing herself to be respected.

I really enjoy reading everyone's thoughts on this novel - which happens to be my favorite one written by Jane Austin, although I also like her Sense and Sensability.

[nps_marina]

To me, it seemed to have had a deep rooted sense of dignity - of a high honor within herself.

I completely agree with you, Amanda, and I think that was the pride that Lizzie was trying to preserve.
Also, certainly, there was that self-preservation thing you mention, Chunwing, but mostly I think Lizzie was more hell-bent on being proud about her principles as opposed to the 'base principles' of others, rather than being proud to save herself from the humility of being poor.


They're a lovable family, but notice how Mr. Bennet constantly taunts his wife and she vice-versa; they seem to be opposites.
I don't agree- with your 'they're a loveable family, BUT. I think you should write something like 'they're a loveable family, AND'.
My dad and my mom taunt each other constantly, and I've never thought it something bad (neither have they). It's just being witty (and that's Mr Bennett more than Mrs Bennett), and it's nice that, for a change, we get to see some families in a normal environment- all your victorian/romantic literature always gives out perfectly posed families where everyone is so cordial... sometimes it's nice to see some real family situations.
Although right now I don't know if I'm messing up too much of the movie in this post (I've seen it more recently than read the book).


Admittedly, Lizzie was a girl of no great wealth, although her family lacked for nothing as far as servants and ball gowns (middle class).

Yeah, what's with that in all these novels? It certainly drives me crazy (humorously) that they are always poor, but keep servants, carriages... what was the idea of poverty, back then?
It really happens to me with the Bates in Emma, they are supposed to be down in the pits of poverty, but yet... LOL.


I really enjoy reading everyone's thoughts on this novel...[/I].

Same here!

[sciencefan]

The following conversation takes place between Charlotte, Elizabeth and Mary.
Jane Austen defines “pride” for us.
As Mary says, pride has to do with our opinion of ourselves.

“``His pride,'' said Miss Lucas, ``does not offend me so much as pride often does, because there is an excuse for it. One cannot wonder that so very fine a young man, with family, fortune, every thing in his favour, should think highly of himself. If I may so express it, he has a right to be proud.''

``That is very true,'' replied Elizabeth, ``and I could easily forgive his pride, if he had not mortified mine.''

``Pride,'' observed Mary, who piqued herself upon the solidity of her reflections, ``is a very common failing I believe. By all that I have ever read, I am convinced that it is very common indeed, that human nature is particularly prone to it, and that there are very few of us who do not cherish a feeling of self-complacency on the score of some quality or other, real or imaginary. Vanity and pride are different things, though the words are often used synonimously. A person may be proud without being vain. Pride relates more to our opinion of ourselves, vanity to what we would have others think of us.''”
chapter 5

According to Webster’s 1828 Dictionary (http://www.cbtministries.org/resources/webster1828.htm)
Pride is:
1. Inordinate self-esteem;
an unreasonable conceit of one's own superiority in talents, beauty,
wealth, accomplishments, rank or elevation in office,
which manifests itself in lofty airs, distance, reserve,
and often in contempt of others.


Here, Elizabeth has her “light bulb moment”.
She’s sees herself for the way she’s been,
and she realizes her own failure.
This is the turning point where she stops judging Darcy
and starts appreciating him.

“She grew absolutely ashamed of herself. -- Of neither Darcy nor Wickham could she think, without feeling that she had been blind, partial, prejudiced, absurd.

``How despicably have I acted!'' she cried. -- ``I, who have prided myself on my discernment! -- I, who have valued myself on my abilities! who have often disdained the generous candour of my sister, and gratified my vanity, in useless or blameable distrust. -- How humiliating is this discovery! -- Yet, how just a humiliation! -- Had I been in love, I could not have been more wretchedly blind. But vanity, not love, has been my folly. -- Pleased with the preference of one, and offended by the neglect of the other, on the very beginning of our acquaintance, I have courted prepossession and ignorance, and driven reason away, where either were concerned. Till this moment, I never knew myself.''”
chapter 36

For those who have wondered what it was that Elizabeth had to be “proud” of,
she explains here that she prided herself in her ability to judge another person’s character.

[ponycrazy2002]

FIRSTLY, you have plenty of time to read the book from today to the 26th, it's a short book, and should be read anyway.

That being said:
http://www.pemberley.com/
http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/pride/

And I'll answer your questions, but in the blunt manner. You'll have to expand upon it!

PART 1: All the book takes place in England, only they move around. And all the levels of society are represented, more or less. Nobility (Lady Catherine de Bourgh) and the upper class (Fitzwilliam Darcy), the military (Wickham), the Church (Mr. Collins), and the middle class (the Bennett's themselves).

PART 2: Perhaps you could use Elizabeth Bennett and Charlotte Lucas, and look around for some quote where Elizabeth states her despise for convenience marriages and the like; versus Charlotte eventually marrying Mr Collins just because he'll do, given that she's not getting any younger.
But that's just out of the top of my head, I am sure there are far better character comparisons. You could also use the male characters for example.

PART 3: Darcy swallows his Pride, Elizabeth her Prejudices. Or the other way around: she her pride, he his prejudices. Who is supposed to be one or the other, I've always thought that both are both.
Learning to modify your rigid mind structures for the sake of those you love, nit taking everything at face value.

I would refer to it as a rather simple, though loveable, novel. No deep sub-plot, just face value.
But that's just my opinion.

Read it!!! Seriously. It's one of my favorite books!!!



in the first third of the book....what part of england does it take place in? and also where can i find a copy of the book online?

[nps_marina]

Ponycrazy-

http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/1342 (That's from Gutenberg project)

http://www.pemberley.com/janeinfo/ppjalmap.html That's from the Pemberley website.

Hertfordshire would be the zone they live in. More specifically, they all live in the outskirts of the town of Meryton. Longbourn is the Bennett's family home, Netherfield is the Bingley's rented house (where Jane falls ill, where Bingley holds a ball), and Lucas Lodge is where Charlotte Lucas lives (Charlotte is Elizabeth's best friend)

Sciencefan-

Thanks for your post, I really liked it!!!!
Honestly, gotta love P&P
Poor Lizzy- being so proud, and having to admit to it!!! That's double mortifucation: realizing your pride (which, as of a trait, is usually considered bad), and having to acknowledge you were wrong about it...

[sciencefan]

in the first third of the book....what part of england does it take place in? and also where can i find a copy of the book online?

The Bennett family lives in Hertfordshire (I think it's a county), near the town of Meryton.

The book is on this very web site.
The link is at the top of the page for the Pride and Prejudice forum.

Pride and Prejudice Complete Searchable Text (http://www.online-literature.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=2019)

[chunwing]

Sciencefan, thank you for your quotes. After I last posted, I had a thought and yes I agree that Lizzie's pride is not "arrogance" ie wanting to put someone down to hide her own insecurity. I agree that it comes from her seeing the stupidity of some of the people around her and her knowing better. What I was struggling with was that there doesn't seem to be anything about her life that makes her special, so why would she feel special. But afterwards I realised it does make sense. Take real life. A lot of people are educated, but not everyone truly adopts what they have learned. Another example is religion - not all religious people lead religious lives. So it makes sense that altough people like Lydia and Charlotte Lucas received the same education Lizzie has, they can turn out intellectually totally different. Lizzie clearly knew that this was the case, and that is why she feels disgusted at those others around her.

Amanda you raise an intersting point about Mary. Clearly she was purposely created as a ridiculous figure. I have a different view on what she's there though. I think she is not just an extreme opposite of Lydia/Mrs Bennett/Charlotte, she is also an extreme version of Lizzie! Lizzie and Mary are very similar and the only thing that makes Lizzie different is that she still conforms to accepted behaviours in society while Mary does not. They are similar in that they are both annoyed at vanity and they are both very much into their studies. Also, both KNOW that they are much more educated (in the sense of understanding value of books) than the other girls. If Lizzie becomes a bit more prouder and more prejudicial than she already is, she will turn into a Mary.

My view is that it reflects a recurring theme in Austen books - that of the importance of following certain "rules" in society. The example that I appears off top of my head is how in Emma the character of Miss Bates shows how much life can suck for a woman to not marry.

[nps_marina]

I like your ideas, Chungwing, but do you really think Jane Austen gave so much thought to the whole thing? I think she did use Mary as a bit of comic relief (just as they use her in the movie -I mean the latest one-, if you've seen it).
But! Maybe your views are right. They are interesting nonetheless.

Concerning Lizzie's pride, I don't like to think that she feels superior to her best friend, because she never really says so. I can't remember for sure, perhaps somewhere it is implied (not in straightout criticism of Charlotte, but in an abscence to defend her somewhere when Mrs. Bennett abuses her)... but it doesn't strike me as Lizzie really believing herself superior to Charlotte.
With Lydia and Mrs Bennett, though, I might agree...certainly that is because they inspire the same feelings (of superiority, and that would be literal, because if I ever met them I would hit them over the head repeatedly until they were barely above ground) in me. :P

[erialis_phoenix]

Yeah, what's with that in all these novels? It certainly drives me crazy (humorously) that they are always poor, but keep servants, carriages... what was the idea of poverty, back then?
It really happens to me with the Bates in Emma, they are supposed to be down in the pits of poverty, but yet... LOL.

Well, Austen never explicitly stated that the Bennets (or the Bates, for that matter) were really poor in that sense. Mr. Bennet is a landowning gentleman in the country, in the same strata as Mr. Darcy as a matter of fact. However, because of the difference in wealth and such, Mr. Darcy belongs to the upper class (also given how he is related to Lady Catherine), whilst Mr. Bennet is considered middle, or even lower-middle class.

Carriages were not expensive during Austen's days, as compared to later on in the 19th century. As for the servants, Mr. Bennet is not poor- he's decently off, but because he failed to save up money, his daughters have little by way of dowry. Hence, the need for them to marry well stems less so from them being 'poor' but from their father's mistakes.

Read up more on literature of that era or descriptions of that era, it may help . ;)

[JBI]

Well, Austen never explicitly stated that the Bennets (or the Bates, for that matter) were really poor in that sense. Mr. Bennet is a landowning gentleman in the country, in the same strata as Mr. Darcy as a matter of fact. However, because of the difference in wealth and such, Mr. Darcy belongs to the upper class (also given how he is related to Lady Catherine), whilst Mr. Bennet is considered middle, or even lower-middle class.

Carriages were not expensive during Austen's days, as compared to later on in the 19th century. As for the servants, Mr. Bennet is not poor- he's decently off, but because he failed to save up money, his daughters have little by way of dowry. Hence, the need for them to marry well stems less so from them being 'poor' but from their father's mistakes.

Read up more on literature of that era or descriptions of that era, it may help . ;)
Not to mention that the estate is going to pass to Mr. Collins, and not to the daughters, leaving them dowry-less, and without anything once he dies. I would say that though they may seem not to be that poor, the idea of Darcy marrying one of them is crazy, particularly to ones sharing the views of Lady Catherine, because of the lack of benefit from marriage. Elizabeth, and Jane for that matter, essentially have nothing to offer a rich husband, besides themselves, whereas back then marriage was seen more as a social/economic move to try and increase a family's wealth and status.