Deception

[closedbyrequest]

In another post, I stated that Dantes thought himself to be the hand of providence. In the case of the book, Edmond feels that he is guided by God.
In chapter 26 "The Inn of Pont du Gard":

"I pledge you my sacred word, madame," said the abbe, "that my intentions are free from all thoughts of harm or injury to you or yours; and that your husband can incur no risk, provided he answers me candidly."

Then later at the begining of chapter 27 "The Tale"...

"First," said Caderousse, "sir, you must make me a promise."
"What is that?" inquired the abbe.
"Why, if you ever make use of the details I am about to give you, that you will never let anyone know that it was I who supplied them, for the persons of whom I am about to talk are rich and powerful, and if they only laid the tips of their fingers on me, I should break to pieces like glass."
"Make yourself easy, my friend," replied the abbe; "I am a priest, and confessions die in my breast... I am an Italian, and not a Frenchman..."

If acting for God, is it possible to lie?

[duriel]

Aramis certainly thinks it a fine habit for a clergyman! Seriously, though, Dantes lies because he considers himself above such petty concerns. Of course, this all comes back to haunt him later, when he is forced to reconsider his actions in light of the death of so many innocents during his quest for revenge.

Is lying truly possible for an instrument of God? Dumas exonerates Dantes' behavior, " 'God, who raised me up against my enemies and made me victorious, didn't want me to have this penance at the end of my victory. I wanted to punish myself, but God wishes to forgive me.' " So, he does require forgiveness for the injustice caused by his hand, but at the same time he is forgiven for his sincerity and the justice of his cause. Also, at the scene of Caderousse's death, he repents and commends his soul to God. A fair day's work for a lying priest!

In the end, an instrument of God can lie. Satan does it all the time, after all. To be an instrument of God's will is not to abandon your own, and I suppose that Dantes is hardly a man to submit himself entirely to anything but his own will. In the case of his vengeance, let us say that his goals and those of the Almighty must have found a happy coincidence of purpose.

[closedbyrequest]

Excelent reply. Thank you very much.

[kiki1982]

I don't think that lying in itself was necessary as the priest Faria in prison already told him what happened because he had experience. The priest who goes to inquire at Caderousse's place just checks the story of Faria with the story that Caderousse tells him and they are the same. So actually Edmond knew what was up, but needed confirmation and as such the confession of Caderousse 'dies in his breast' as Edmond uses the story Faria told him and not the one Caderousse confessed.
As for the fact that his father died of hunger and that Morrel and Mercédès tried to help him: after Edmond turns up as Lord Wilmore of Thomson & French at Morrel's place, the chapter ends in 'Let me talk to you, Penelon'. He obviously talked to Penelon, the eldest sailor of the Pharaon (the ship Dantès worked on and would have been captain on). At the start of the story they just arrived in Marseille from Smyrna, so they would have had a little holiday, so obviously Penelon must have known what happened after Edmond's arrest. It is not in the book, because Caderousse just told the story to the priest so it was not necessary to recite it again.

[closedbyrequest]

Wait. Lord Wilmore and the guy from Thomson and Finch were the same person? I never caught that. Does it specifically say that in the story?

[kiki1982]

I believe so, yes. The first mension of Lord Wilmore is in chapter XXV. At the end Edmond buys the house at Allées de Meilhan and it says in the book that he was introduced to the owner as Lord Wilmore. Then 2 chapters later (after Caderousse's tale) an Englishman appears of Thomson & French who doesn't say his name. And who looks in the prison registre at Edmond Dantès' entry. The next chapter the same Englishman from Thomson & French goes to Morrel, gives comments about how they acted the Pharaon in the storm, gets emotional at the sight of the sailors and in the end gives delay of payment. There is indeed enough reason to believe that this Englishman is Edmond.

M'annoncer serait inutile, mademoiselle, répondit l'Anglais, M. Morrel ne connaît pas mon nom. Ce brave homme n'a qu'à dire seulement que je suis le premier commis de MM. Thomson et French, de Rome, avec lesquels la maison de monsieur votre père est en relations.

Introducing me will be of no use, Mlle, answered the Englishman, Mr Morrel doesn't know my name. The good man [Coclès] only has to say that I am the first agent of MM Thomson & French, of Rome, with which the house of your father has business.

I believe, with his money he had bought the debt certificates from the real Thomson & French in order to save Morrel. (Before he made inquiries as to how the status of his old employer was and he learned that he lost all his ships apart from the Pharaon but that ship should already have arrived for a month and it hasn't so all think that it is lost. So therefor Morrel is bankrupt, which he doesn't deserve.) Remember that after Morrel was given 3 months delay of payment he meets his daughter Julie on the stairs and he tells her that on a certain day she will get a letter from Simbad le Marin that tells her to do something and it is very important that she does exactly what is in the letter. He also tells her to remain a nice girl and that Providence will give her Emmanuel as a husband in return. How could the Englishman know that Simbad le Marin would send a letter, and also that Julie had to what she had to do if Simbad le Marin was not the Englishman from Thomson & French and also the person that bought the house at Allées de Meilhan (and that is Lord Wilmore)?
So the 5th of september she gets the letter of Simbad le Marin and she collects the money and comes to deliver it to her father about 5 minutes before the guy of Thomson & French has to walk in. At the moment the clock strikes 11, someone shouts 'Le Pharaon' and the ship enters the harbour of Marseille, loaded with goods and the crew. A 'mysterious stranger with a dark beard' shout 'Jacopo' and jumps in his yacht 'with the ease of a sailor'. How then Morrel got rid of the money he had to pay to Thomson & French if their guy didn't turn up, is a little bit of an empty end.
Dumas couldn't say that it was Lord Wilmore as such, because then the fact that all those mysterious people were all the same person, would have been clear from the beginning. Only at the end Dumas clarifies this (for whom didn't understand yet...).
Where else does Lord Wilmore come into the story?

[closedbyrequest]

He's also later in the book when Villefort's people interview him and Busoni. I just never realized that "the agent of Thomson and Finch" was "Lord Wilmore". Hmm.

Well, I am reading it again right now, so maybe I will catch it this time.

[closedbyrequest]

Ok. I found it. I just never picked up on it before. In the chapter where the Count of Monte Cristo visits Maximilian at Julie's place:

"Tell me," continued he, "was he not about my height, perhaps a little taller, with his chin imprisoned, as it were, in a high cravat; his coat closely buttoned up, and constantly taking out his pencil?"

"Oh, do you then know him?" cried Julie, whose eyes sparkled with joy.

"No," returned Monte Cristo "I only guessed. I knew a Lord Wilmore, who was constantly doing actions of this kind."

[kiki1982]

Ah yes, I forgot that bit...
I first saw the French mini-series and of course this enlishman was plaid by the same actor, so I knew from the beginning that this Lord Wilmore/englishman were all Edmond Dantès...

[Uberzensch]

How then Morrel got rid of the money he had to pay to Thomson & French if their guy didn't turn up, is a little bit of an empty end.


In the red purse that contains the money Dantes leaves for Morrel, he also left the papers for the debt. Therefore, Morrel has the money AND does not need to pay back the debts. That's why Max is always trying to get in touch with someone at the bank to figure this out.

[kiki1982]

I looked the passage up and indeed, the paper was in there...

Thank you for pointing that out ;).

I read it in French and didn't know the word for it, so I missed it.