What's your take on Shylock?

[Shea]

I kind of pity him in a way because everyone picks on him and backs him into a corner, but then again he asks for it dosen't he? I mean he was so evil, his own daughter couldn't stand him.

What do you guys think?

[atiguhya padma]

I think he ranks up there with Fagin. I mean, these guys are so representative of their cultures aren't they? (Shakespeare and Dickens, I mean, before anyone jumps down my neck!!!!!):)

[Isagel]

If I remember correctly (long time since I read this) I think that it doesn´t matter if Shylock "deserves" it or not. I still pity him. He is degraded and hurt. And his hurt is like any other mans, whatever he has done before. He is still in pain. And he is a part of humankind that bleeds, cries and laugh - to parafrase his wonderful speech. Or to put it another way - just because somebody has caused pain, it doesn´t make it right to cause that person pain back. To take pity on Shylock is not strange. It just means that you can imagine his pain.

[atiguhya padma]

Excellent reply Isagel:)

[Shea]

Actually, during that speech, (I believe you're referring to the "Hath not a Jew eyes?" one) he also says "And if you wrong us, shall we not revenge?" He does want to cause pain back and goes as far as he can to do so.

He's the one that started all this but I'm not etirely sure he realizes it. I don't think it was right of Antonio to insult him in the streets as he did, but Shylock sort of had it coming.

[Isagel]

I think that that part of the speech is the most tragic. Evrybody is caught in a vicious circle of revenge. Not just Shylock, but the human race. We revenge, and cause pain , that is cause for revenge, and on- and- on. When you hurt Shylock you hurt us all, cause revenge will feed revenge eternally until evryone is caught up in it. I do not know if that is what Shakespeare meant. But that is how it feels to me.

[crisaor]

Shylock's character can be pitied, in spite of his flaws. Personally, I have more pity for the other characters of the play that suffered because of him, such as Antonio. Shakespeare didn't do a great job when referring to stereotypes (Shylock is just an example of this, as is Edmund from King Lear).
The Merchant of Venice is an excellent play, and it's a great allegorie to the third world's debt.

[MacBeth]

Shylock can be pitied, of course. He was under a great amount of stress, considering the situation with his daughter. He took out his frustrations at home on Antonio, and maybe went a bit too far. All of this, naturally, could begin an entirely different view of the play, making it Jessica's fault. There are so amny ways to look at the play that I'm not sure Shakespeare himself quite had the whole situation sorted out.

[Vronaqueen]

I think what makes Shylock's character so hard to pin down is his relationship with his daughter. Jessica is very young and her father is keeping her from the man she loves. Of course she's gonna be pissed off. This of course does not make him evil--it makes him strict. Jessica's rebellion as does not help his situation at all. For one, she's defying her heritage--yes, can be considered a modern concept but the fact that she is denying her Jewish heritage can't make Shylock very happy.

i always have to consider the fact that Jews had very few opportunities at this time. When he lends the money, he expects to get it back, and if the loan is defaulted, the debtors have an obligation to be punished. Antonio and the lot of them are degenerates who can't pay their debts and manage to weasle there way out of their responibilites. They used Shylock's low status against him, and make a fool of him because they feel they should get away with what they have done

[Eddie]

Personally, I have more pity for the other characters of the play that suffered because of him, such as Antonio.

I feel alot more for Shylock than i do Antonio. personally i don't like Antonio, the trial scene sums up his character in my opinion. He completeley de-humanises and rips ups Shylocks life by taking away his religion.

Ed

[crisaor]

How exactly does Antonio "take away Shylock's religion"?

[Eddie]

How exactly does Antonio "take away Shylock's religion"?

At the end of the trial scene after Portia has 'freed' Antonio, Antonio gives Shylocks property to Lorenzo and Jessica and makes Shylock switch his religion to Christianity "Two things provided more, that, for this favour, He presently become a Christian;"

Ed

[crisaor]

That was the choice he was presented in order to attain the mercies that Antonio offered him (mercies that were outside the law, according to which he was supposed to lose everything). When presented that choice, he preferred the money instead of his religion. Nobody forced him to do that. He chose it. At the end, he simply got back what he had done to others his whole life, something that wasn't contradictory with his religion, but he felt like renouncing it. If anyone "ripped him up" it was himself.

[Rumble]

I also feel a lot of pity for Shylock, but historically I think that there was little possibility for pity. Shylock was a character written for a very anti-semetic Elizabethan English audience. That he was despicable was, I suspect, was simply "a given."

[gollum]

That was the choice he was presented in order to attain the mercies that Antonio offered him (mercies that were outside the law, according to which he was supposed to lose everything). When presented that choice, he preferred the money instead of his religion. Nobody forced him to do that. He chose it. At the end, he simply got back what he had done to others his whole life, something that wasn't contradictory with his religion, but he felt like renouncing it. If anyone "ripped him up" it was himself.
i fail to understand if you have even read this play. It is made quite clear at the end that shylock has few choices. He had turned down the money before he knew his bond was void. He turned it down so that he could have antonio's flesh to fulfill his bond. He did not CHOOSE to lose his religion, it was on the terms that he tried to kill a venecian basically (as i understand it). He HAD to do what antonio told him or he'd most probably be executed. He did not choose to lose his religion- why would he? it was all he had left. Do you see my point? (i'm not being nasty so please don't think im mean! )

[crisaor]

i fail to understand if you have even read this play.
If you do not understand, then you shouldn't pass judgements so hastily.
I have read the play, and I'll adress your comment.
In Act 4, Scene 1, where Shylock stands trial, the Duke says

DUKE
That thou shalt see the difference of our spirits,
I pardon thee thy life before thou ask it:
For half thy wealth, it is Antonio's;
The other half comes to the general state,
Which humbleness may drive unto a fine.

So, as you see, he wouldn't "most probably be executed".

Then, the play continues:

ANTONIO
So please my lord the duke and all the court
To quit the fine for one half of his goods,
I am content; so he will let me have
The other half in use, to render it,
Upon his death, unto the gentleman
That lately stole his daughter:
Two things provided more, that, for this favour,
He presently become a Christian;
The other, that he do record a gift,
Here in the court, of all he dies possess'd,
Unto his son Lorenzo and his daughter.

DUKE
He shall do this, or else I do recant
The pardon that I late pronounced here.

PORTIA
Art thou contented, Jew? what dost thou say?

SHYLOCK
I am content.

Again, he chooses to accept Antonio's offer. And by doing that, he chooses to lose his religion , preferring the money instead. As you see, all of this is already in my previous post, but it seems to me you didn't care enough to understand it. As far I see, it is you who didn't read the play or understood it in a very unusual way, to say the least.
And last, if you don't pretend to be nasty, then try a more civil approach next time.

[byquist]

A lot has to do with the actor playing the part, and how the director sees the character. For instance you can get a look at a sympathetic Shylock in the Jack Benny comedy black-and-white film, "To Be or Not to Be," truly a wonderful film. I favor the sympathetic Shylock, who has feelings that have been hurt all his life, who has been slandered and laughed at by young primadonnas who have hardly ever put in an honest day's work in their life, who spend their days playing games, wearing fancy clothes, clowning around and testing their wits on each other, etc. If a play offers a reasonably likeable Shylock, it's all the more shocking when he pulls out the knife. He's deep and intense, so I'm not talking about a happy-go-lucky dude, and he's world-weary having been made tough by his circumstances, but he's also endowed with intellect and with some satirical humor. He is the hero of the play and an audience member should find him many-dimensioned, colorful, quick and powerful.

[gollum]

sorry, i misunderstood you. But there is no need for YOU to pass such harsh judgement on me either. Shakespeares works are there to be interpreted in different ways, i just didnt agree with your opinion. Sorry if i cam across rude, or unfair to you.

[Chava]

Merchant of Venice was originally written because a competeing theater group had produced a performance about Jews, i fail to recollect the name of the play at the moment... Shakespeare was asked to make a competitive play, hence it revolves around shylock, and the jew question. I think that Shylock is victimized from the start, he never get's the chance to portray a good side of himself, and that, is a pity, isn't it?

[crisaor]

No problem, gollum. Likewise.

[gollum]

its all good crisaor. Sorrry! but we should talk about literature more often. How about jabberwocky? have u any takes on that? I LOVE IT! ( i know this is ot inkeeping with theme but hey!) it is just so fantastically full of nonsense! heehee.

[Chava]

Once did a theatrical performance on it.... I had to play the queen.... My old principle played the jabberwocky, who was customarily dressed in a kilt for the occasion, good fun that was....