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Joakim
01-12-2007, 11:24 AM
Robert Owen the founder of socialism had an utopian vision in mind as he experimented with his system. He is often quoted saying:
"It is of all thruths the most important that mans character is made for not by himself"
He was in a sense trying to create a community of total equality.
For some reason he failed.

His son Robert Dale had a different way of looking at this, he wrote:
" All co-operative schemes wich provide equal remuneration to the skilled and industrious and the ignorant and idle. Must work there own downfall, for by this unjust plan they must of necessity eliminate the valuable members and retain only the improvident unskilled and viscious."

What does this imply?

Triskele
01-25-2007, 07:11 PM
their combined messages form the practical socialist ideas of marx. he believed in the dialectic similar to Hegel and Bauer. this progression has the ultimate effect of social equality, and thus communal anarchy, but they recognized that communism was not possible at that point, which is why they supported the welfare state style of socialism to give all people equal OPPORTUNITY, not equal status. this in essance clearing the way for humans to reach to peak of mankind, thus "the peak of mankind is humanity". when all humans have reached this moral summit, then the form of communism in Owens concept of utopian socialism would become a possibility because all of mankind at that point would be equal, so it is an eventuality, not a revolution, although the concept of that eventuality was revolutionary in itself. that it think is my take on it, any others have any contradictory, or affirming comments?

Orionsbelt
01-25-2007, 10:23 PM
"It is of all truths the most important that mans character is made for not by himself"



I'm not sure! man's character is made for himself... by who? it seems to imply that you are molded. Outside influences.. etc... I don't see how he was trying to create total equality based on this statement. It could fall either way. Since I am not familiar with his thoughts. Maybe some elaboration would help. His son seems a little closer to the mark.

genoveva
01-28-2007, 03:59 AM
their combined messages form the practical socialist ideas of marx. he believed in the dialectic similar to Hegel and Bauer. this progression has the ultimate effect of social equality, and thus communal anarchy, but they recognized that communism was not possible at that point, which is why they supported the welfare state style of socialism to give all people equal OPPORTUNITY, not equal status.

Do you mean equity?

And, is "communal anarchy" your term, or the philosophers?

Triskele
02-01-2007, 11:18 AM
I'm not sure! man's character is made for himself... by who? it seems to imply that you are molded. Outside influences.. etc... I don't see how he was trying to create total equality based on this statement. It could fall either way. Since I am not familiar with his thoughts. Maybe some elaboration would help. His son seems a little closer to the mark.

unless it is society that molds the man, and the individual that carves out the more intricate designs?

Triskele
02-01-2007, 11:22 AM
Do you mean equity?

And, is "communal anarchy" your term, or the philosophers?

i do mean equity, but through the accomplishments of the individuals collectively grouped into a society. Marx referes to it as "social anarchy", but considering that language i think forms the basis for our existance i think that communal anarchy is more appropriate in that the individuals aren't just interacting socially, but more forming a community run not by rules but by the developed concience of all humans.