Othello,

[sweet queen]

hi everybody:yawnb:
do you think Othello was natural jealous?? or it was all about Iago's poisinning of his mind??

[BeenThere]

I think Othello had naturally jealous tendencies that Iago exploited. Iago would have used whatever weakness Othello presented to destroy him.

[JBI]

At first he really has mixed feelings. He realized that Desdemona's emotions lead her to make her decisions (she married him against her fathers wishes after all) but in the beginning doesn't believe she could possibly cheat on him. Later however he begins to listen to the evidence, and he begins to doubt. That doubt in his wife is what leads to the tragedy; he trusts his friend more than his wife due to the evidence, and the fact that Iago seemed to be truthful to him.

[Haven]

I suppose also there was the age difference between Othello and Desdemona. This in itself may have made him feel insecure about his relationship with her. Insecurity can indeed foster jealousy, and with Iago 'fanning the flames' of Othello's insecurities, then jealousy is the most likely outcome. But to say was Othello naturally jealous by nature? I don't know. He seemed pretty honourable at the outset, but suppose Shakespeare had to create some human flaw in Othello to make the tragedy realistic.

[Haven]

Just had another thought on this subject. Following on from JBI's observations.
Early in the play, it is Desdemona's own father who suggests to Othello that as she has lied to him, her father, Brabantio. How does Othello know that she won't also betray him? I'd say the seed of doubt was sown right there and then. Even before Iago got his 'hooks' into Othello. Not surprising that jealousy followed.

[Mrs. Dalloway]

I think that if Othello wasn't natural jealous, Iago couldn't manipulate his mind...

[Haven]

Mrs Dalloway, I think that a fine hostess such as yourself would understand that there is a capability within all people to feel jealousy. Your creator, Virginia Woolf was very familiar with the concept of malicious rumours fanning the seeds of doubt within her various literary characters. Therefore, I do not believe that Othello, was, first and foremost jealous. He was manipulated. Either on purpose as by Iago, or by sheer clumsiness in the case of Brabantio.

Iago was like a devilish Puck in A Midsummer Night's Dream. He was the writer of tabloid journalism. He sensationlised and lied about events, and mislead the audience and his co-characters. He was the one that directed the action and the conclusions drawn therein. Iago was racist. He disliked the Moor, Othello not only because he had been overlooked by Othello when Cassio was promoted over him. But he disliked the fact that Othello and Desdemona were married and thus having sexual relations. For futher evidence of this see the interaction between Iago, Desdemona and Emilia when the women and Cassio arrive by ship after the storm in Cyprus.
Othello was not jealous he was villified by the vicious Iago and subjected to what amounted to on-going, malicious meddling. As already mentioned the age gap between Othello and Desdemona, must have been a contributory factor.

[Mrs. Dalloway]

Mrs Dalloway, I think that a fine hostess such as yourself would understand that there is a capability within all people to feel jealousy. Your creator, Virginia Woolf was very familiar with the concept of malicious rumours fanning the seeds of doubt within her various literary characters. Therefore, I do not believe that Othello, was, first and foremost jealous. He was manipulated. Either on purpose as by Iago, or by sheer clumsiness in the case of Brabantio.

Iago was like a devilish Puck in A Midsummer Night's Dream. He was the writer of tabloid journalism. He sensationlised and lied about events, and mislead the audience and his co-characters. He was the one that directed the action and the conclusions drawn therein. Iago was racist. He disliked the Moor, Othello not only because he had been overlooked by Othello when Cassio was promoted over him. But he disliked the fact that Othello and Desdemona were married and thus having sexual relations. For futher evidence of this see the interaction between Iago, Desdemona and Emilia when the women and Cassio arrive by ship after the storm in Cyprus.
Othello was not jealous he was villified by the vicious Iago and subjected to what amounted to on-going, malicious meddling. As already mentioned the age gap between Othello and Desdemona, must have been a contributory factor.

Of course Othello was manipulated! And I agree with you in all what you've said. You're absolutely right... But if a person is really sure about something or someone s/he cannot be manipulated by anyone. maybe "love" or something similar is more complex but it can be applied in other situations. In politics or in your personal life. If you have a goal and you're sure that you can make it true there isn't anyone who can manipulate you. If Othello was jelous wasn't because he was manipulated. It is an important fact but I think that Iago's lies wouldn't be useless if Othello wasn't a little jealous at all.
But I agree with you in some sense because Iago uses clues to persuade Othello. But if Othello really loved Desdemona, didn't he speak with her or something else? Even in the end of the play he didn't listen to Desdemona at all... He was totally blind, and that's because in some sense Othello was naturally a bit jealous. Iago's lies only increased this jealousy.

[Haven]

Hi Mrs D., I too concede to some very good points that you make, and enjoyed reading your reply. I will make one last plea on Othello's behalf... :) in that he was a passionate man. If we cannot entirely rid him of the ugly rumour of jealousy, then perhaps it can be viewed as a lesser evil and that of devotion and love that was twisted by in the main a malevolent being, Iago.

I am going to see a production of Othello, at The Globe in London tomorrow night. I promise, if I change my mind on viewing [and not just reading] the play, I will let you know.

[Mrs. Dalloway]

Hi Mrs D., I too concede to some very good points that you make, and enjoyed reading your reply. I will make one last plea on Othello's behalf... :) in that he was a passionate man. If we cannot entirely rid him of the ugly rumour of jealousy, then perhaps it can be viewed as a lesser evil and that of devotion and love that was twisted by in the main a malevolent being, Iago.

I am going to see a production of Othello, at The Globe in London tomorrow night. I promise, if I change my mind on viewing [and not just reading] the play, I will let you know.

Yes, if you think that he was manipulated by Iago and that Othello was a passionate man, the view of him is a bit different. I don't see him an evil. I think the evil is Iago but of course Othello is a bit guilty... Can't you be passionate and at the same way be a bit jelous? I think Othello was a little bit jelous, which is enough for Iago to go ahead with his manipulations... I don't know, don't forget to tell us how was the play Ok?? :D I've never seen the play so enjoy it for me too! :thumbs_up :D

[ale]

dear all,
I guess I agree with most things that have been posted so far...
first, isn't jealousy natural in every human being? what varies is the degree...
however, in the case of Othello, I think there's something else. Iago is not merely arousing his jealousy. He's hurting his pride, especially his manhood. Othello is led to believe that Desdemona is cheating on him with somebody inferior in rank. the thing is that his "rival" is white and Christian, while our hero is a converted Moor. He's an alien, an outsider trying to fit in. Of course he is insecure (who wouldn't be in such a circumstance?).
I think that Othello's tragic flaw is not jealousy. It's pride.
Does this make sense to any of you?
Warmly,
Ale

[MrD]

Othello wasn't a normal man due to his background. He hadn't experienced certain things, conversations, social interests as his peers had.

When Iago started to put his claws in and confuse him with seeming evidences, Othello acted to the extreme. Black or white was his game, he didn't see the shades of grey in human behaviour. Military types often find that hard to understand, how civvies will stab you in the back, not do work punctually or have any self determination.

From slave to military man, he had few chances to understand human behaviour outside of orders and truths. To say he was "naturally" jealous in conjunction with his upbringing would be right because of these factors. Where "nature" was his upbringing. If Desdemona was truly being unfaithful then he saw it as the end of his world and to kill her in a crime of passion was what he saw as "natural"

[JBI]

I have read criticism that says that in that time in Italy, it was common for a woman to have affairs outside the relationship. Because of this, Othello perhaps could suspect this thing, since Italy I guess was a sexually freer society. There very well could be race implications as to why he has his doubts. Iago just confirms his racist suspicions.

[MrD]

The primary purpose of the gondalier could be said to quietly sneak women out of their fathers/husbands properties and out to trysts with lovers!

Sexual manners were a bit crazy in that place.

[huntress4eva]

i think that there must have been something in Othello mind in the first place to make him jelouse else Iago couldnt have preyed on it however, most of the jelousy was create by iago and his ability to maniputate. Dont forget the "green eye monster quote." shows othello held jelousy in him somwhere even if he didnt realise it.