Death and Immortailty

[IamMissingaLink]

Anyone not afraid of death?
I get a horrible feeling inside when I remember that I will die.
I hope that in my lifetime the medical science will be able to restore people back to life allowing us to live forever. People would have to stop procreating ofcourse to prevent overpopulation.

[i_rebel]

The tought that I'm going to die it's not scaring me; the tought that the few people I care about might die, now that is frightening. Therefore, I avoid getting attached to people and lead my life after the next quotation: "Man shall not love - he will be invincible" (Chiang - Tse) or something like that.
Maybe we should receive some education considering death. Will that help?

[i_rebel]

I don't remember who said this, but I liked it: death came as a punishement, so not being afraid means treating God with airiness. Death is the only way to get to God, so not wanting her represents indifference in regard to the same God.
Conclusion: Be afraid of your last day and wish for her.

Well, not such a successful translation. I hope you understand my "english". :D

[ShoutGrace]

I wrote this in another thread, so I'll just re-write it here:

Any person who fears death simply hasn’t thought about the subject long enough.

The only way fear of death would apply for me is if I thought there might be an unreliable, unjust supreme being out there . . . in that case the afterlife is speculative, and there's nothing you could have done about it, anyway.

Death is not to be feared.

“All goes onward and outward, nothing collapses,
and to die is different from what anyone supposed, and luckier.”


i_rebel: You have posted some really interesting ideas. Your second is more palatable than your first, for me. Do you mind if I start a thread concerning that former? I think that avoiding human attachment is too sharp a tradeoff for being "invincible."

[Hippolite]

I am not afraid of death, per se, I think (I’m not 100% sure that answer is honest since my introspective query on the matter may be defective). However I am specifically afraid of two things. I’m afraid of aging (I know, how superficial of me). I’m also afraid of what would happen to my wife and son should I die, and in fact in the case of my son downright terrified. So I guess in that sense I really do fear death, not for myself (after all, I figure once I’m dead I won’t even know about it) but for others.

[Hippolite]

I wrote this in another thread, so I'll just re-write it here:

Any person who fears death simply hasn’t thought about the subject long enough.



So some say, yet everybody on the crashing plane screams, excepting a few Bhuddist monks. Not that I've ever been on a crashing plane, but so I'm told. I suppose that just means that most people, excepting those Bhuddist monks, haven't thought about death long enough.

I think I'll spend the evening thinking about death.

[IamMissingaLink]

I just don't liek the idea of ceasing to exist. I know I wont be able to worry about it once I die but that is the very thing that bothers me. I dont care if I suffer somewhat after I die just as long as there is something else and then something else again and again. Id rather be alive on earth forever but clearly thats impossible. What do u guys reckon of convincng yourself there is something after death ...not becuase of strong faith or because you have reasoned it to be true but becasue YOU WANT it to be true?

[IamMissingaLink]

The tought that I'm going to die it's not scaring me; the tought that the few people I care about might die, now that is frightening. Therefore, I avoid getting attached to people and lead my life after the next quotation: "Man shall not love - he will be invincible" (Chiang - Tse) or something like that.
Maybe we should receive some education considering death. Will that help?

I gotta tell you - Im not very attatched to anyone in particular...as long as there are others that inhabit this planet I am content. Its possible that I will be attatched to someone in the future but I feel that if they die I will be able to move on.Im not saying this to come across as coarse or contrary either...being "different" no longer interests me.

[ShoutGrace]

So some say, yet everybody on the crashing plane screams, excepting a few Bhuddist monks. Not that I've ever been on a crashing plane, but so I'm told. I suppose that just means that most people, excepting those Bhuddist monks, haven't thought about death long enough.

It’s possible. Some people do not like to think about death – and there are some who don’t but do.

As Virgil said elsewhere, fearing death is natural. Living organisms want to live – that’s their purpose. I imagine that if I was on a crashing plane, I’d be far from serene. However, there isn’t much time to organize your thoughts on a crashing plane – I’d probably be full into my adrenaline induced fight or flight instinct mode.


I just don't liek the idea of ceasing to exist. I know I wont be able to worry about it once I die but that is the very thing that bothers me.

I have felt this exact same way. I have had a very strange paradoxical fear death in the past:

I cannot comprehend losing my consciousness forever. Not ever again having a train of thought or constructing thoughts in my head scares me deeply. Though if I were to die, and my brain cease, I wouldn't care about it (as you say). Or be around to worry about it or fear it anymore. So the fear is entirely irrational. It only has some kind of logic if my brain is working, which it wouldn't be then. It seems like it would in fact be peaceful (though how could you not be around to experience it? I can't fathom it).

Think beyond it for a second, if you can.

“Never, then, will a thinking man view death lightly, impatiently, or scornfully; he will wait for it as but one more of Nature's processes.” – Marcus Aurelius

Death is natural. It comes for all living things – fearing it is a waste of time. I don’t wish to be crude towards those who fear death – as it has been said, fear of death is instinctual. I, personally, have decided not to fear it.



What do u guys reckon of convincng yourself there is something after death ...not becuase of strong faith or because you have reasoned it to be true but becasue YOU WANT it to be true?

I don’t think that anybody should ever beguile themselves, or hide from themselves what they know to be true.

[IamMissingaLink]

It’s possible. Some people do not like to think about death – and there are some who don’t but do.

As Virgil said elsewhere, fearing death is natural. Living organisms want to live – that’s their purpose. I imagine that if I was on a crashing plane, I’d be far from serene. However, there isn’t much time to organize your thoughts on a crashing plane – I’d probably be full into my adrenaline induced fight or flight instinct mode.





Think beyond it for a second, if you can.

“Never, then, will a thinking man view death lightly, impatiently, or scornfully; he will wait for it as but one more of Nature's processes.” – Marcus Aurelius

Death is natural. It comes for all living things – fearing it is a waste of time. I don’t wish to be crude towards those who fear death – as it has been said, fear of death is instinctual. I, personally, have decided not to fear it.



.
thanks for posting that. Living in fear of death is wasting the time i have. Lord:p knows Ive done enough of that.

[i_rebel]

ShoutGrace: Do you mind if I start a thread concerning that former? I think that avoiding human attachment is too sharp a tradeoff for being "invincible."

No, I don't mind. You can do that, i'll write some more about this topic when time will be my friend

[Twisted_Sister]

Anyone not afraid of death?
I get a horrible feeling inside when I remember that I will die.
I hope that in my lifetime the medical science will be able to restore people back to life allowing us to live forever. People would have to stop procreating ofcourse to prevent overpopulation.


i am actually more afraid of living forever... death is scary, but living is forever is scarier. if a person were to live forever, they would have to watch their loved ones die all around them...i would certainly not be able to do that. thats where the saying..."live life to the fullest" comes from. death is apart of life and life is to die in the end. it is understandable for a person to be afraid of death if they have not experienced it around them. or they have experienced too much...they might feel like its all around them and they cant escape it. i have only had a few people i love die, and i have come to realize that death is inevitable no matter what age you are. i believe that everything happens for a reason. i had a good friend die her senior year, of course i was heart broken but i thought about it and i came to the conclusion that it was just her time. even though the physical body dies, the mind and spirit lives forever. i do not believe there is a heaven and i do not believe there is a hell, i believe that when we die our spirits are unknown and will never be known. i think that heaven and hell are people's comforts. it helps them cope with death and gives them the idea that we go to a place that is perfect. i have nothing against that.....i just think that no one will ever know unill they experience death for them self.

[byquist]

Jorge Luis Borges de-mystifies death calling it a "curious experience" in his Los Enigmas sonnet -- at least it's 14 lines; that's a sonnet, right?

[cuppajoe_9]

Rosencrantz: Did you ever think of yourself as actually dead, lying in a box with a lid on it?
Guildenstern: No.
Rosencrantz: Nor do I, really. It's silly to be depressed by it. I mean, one thinks of it like being alive in a box. One keeps forgetting to take into account the fact that one is dead, which should make all the difference, shouldn't it? I mean, you'd never know you were in a box, would you? It would be just like you were asleep in a box. Not that I'd like to sleep in a box, mind you. Not without any air. You'd wake up dead for a start, and then where would you be? In a box. That's the bit I don't like, frankly. That's why I don't think of it. Because you'd be helpless, wouldn't you? Stuffed in a box like that. I mean, you'd be in there forever, even taking into account the fact that you're dead. It isn't a pleasant thought. Especially if you're dead, really. Ask yourself, if I asked you straight off, "I'm going to stuff you in this box. Now, would you rather be alive or dead?" naturally, you'd prefer to be alive. Life in a box is better than no life at all, I expect. You'd have a chance, at least. You could lie there thinking, "Well, at least I'm not dead. In a minute somebody is going to bang on the lid, and tell me to come out."
[bangs on lid]
Rosencrantz: "Hey you! What's your name? Come out of there!"
Guildenstern: [long pause] I think I'm going to kill you.No discussion of morality is complete without quoting a Tom Stoppard play. In answer to the question, I'm a bit troubled by the fact that I will eventually cease to exist, but I'm defintely not actively afraid of it.


at least it's 14 lines; that's a sonnet, right?14 lines, iambic pentameter, first 12 lines alternate rhymes, last two lines form a couplet.

[Laindessiel]

"It is the unknown we fear upon death and darkness, Harry, nothing more." - Albus Dumbledore

Guess that says it all.

[Twisted_Sister]

"It is the unknown we fear upon death and darkness, Harry, nothing more." - Albus Dumbledore

Guess that says it all.

right on.....that was my point earlier....

[byquist]

No discussion of morality is complete without quoting a Tom Stoppard play.

He's got a new play out there and the reviewers are talking on about it and the summing up of his positions. Think it is in Lincoln Center, NYC now, recently in London maybe. Worth tracking down a NY Times review of a few days ago, perhaps last Sunday in the Magazine section. I once enjoyed his "Jumpers."

[maserati]

i heard that only a pantywaist accept the debut of a mortal risk may afraid of death spectacularly:(

[Therapy?]

Anyone not afraid of death?
I get a horrible feeling inside when I remember that I will die.
I hope that in my lifetime the medical science will be able to restore people back to life allowing us to live forever. People would have to stop procreating ofcourse to prevent overpopulation.

If you believe that death is the true end, then fearing it makes sense. Relying on 'medical sciences' is just wishful thinking - such technology would not be tolerated. Take comfort in the fact that everyone else's life is just as insignificant as yours.

[Darl]

This is hard for many because, growing up in a first-world nation, we do not see, feel, smell death regularly; it is alien to us. Most are content to let a problem fester, become gangrenous and overtake their enjoyments, than settle it.

Until you've experienced a massive trauma: watched a loved one die, caused the death of another, held the pieces of what was minutes ago a friend--you can have no handle on what death might feel like.

Everything dies. Everything springs back to rebirth. Watch the seasons and appreciate how many more times you can see such a microcosim of your life...it might alleviate some of the trite stressors in your busy-bustle lifestyle.
Personally, death is nothing to me. I become fertilizer, allow other things to grow. And? I hope to die of cancer; immediate death is such a rip-off. You only die once, so I want my mind in tact, and time to feel and really experience it. Not to mention, it gives you a grace period to console your loved ones. Alzheimers or degenerative mental conditions, now that is depressing. I don't care to hang around this mortal coil unless I retain function.

Death just makes every moment more beautiful and passionate, however painful the present may be.

[IamMissingaLink]

i dont understand the atttitiude some athiests can have toward death..I can understand acceptance of death - but not errm seeing it as positive or just being indifferent to it.
Come on!! How can vamoose, nada, no thoughts, no feelings, just nothingness be an okay end point? Is not your knee-jerk reaction against this? It could never sit comforatbly with me.
Are there an athiests who have wanted to live forever, as impossible as it is?
For the record, Im not an athiest. I am agnostic.

[kilted exile]

i dont understand the atttitiude some athiests can have toward death..I can understand acceptance of death - but not errm seeing it as positive or just being indifferent to it.
Come on!! How can vamoose, nada, no thoughts, no feelings, just nothingness be an okay end point? Is not your knee-jerk reaction against this? It could never sit comforatbly with me.
Are there an athiests who have wanted to live forever, as impossible as it is?
For the record, Im not an athiest. I am agnostic.

Why not? We see things die all the time. We all know sooner or later our time to die is going to come as well. Why worry about it? It's not like we can stop it from happening, and if you worry too much about it you lose the actual enjoyment of living.

[IamMissingaLink]

Why not? We see things die all the time. We all know sooner or later our time to die is going to come as well. Why worry about it? It's not like we can stop it from happening, and if you worry too much about it you lose the actual enjoyment of living.

thats why I am no longer an athiest :thumbs_up. I feel less inclined to worry ;)
I can't deal with the idea that we die and that is it.

[Tiresias]

the idea of death sits uncomfortably with us because we generally do not identify ourselves as purely physical beings - in our heart of hearts or something like that. think of the fact that you have an individual consciousness - the statement: "i am" needs no further justification. and moreover this "i" is something indivisible, despite the fact that the physical components that you face in a mirror will change hundreds of times in your lifespan. what is it that aknowledges, that reflects, that remains constant? ask yourself if you think that this can disappear forever and ever? are you simply your brain, a habedashery of your bits? if the answer is no, then of course not to worry, because then something of you must remain when the physical has dissipated. if the answer is yes, then surely there is nothing to worry about, as what you are must be some kind of illusion anyway?

get hold of some walt whitman, and whatever you think remember that living is the important bit ;-)

[Whifflingpin]

Jamesian: "My own reasoning has led me to conclude (not beyond reconsideration, of course) that a spiritual inclination is something one develops in order to cope with and eventually accept, pain and sorrow."

I can't speak for anyone else, but I practiced religion long before I experienced pain or sorrow, and before I could conceive of the question of death.

When I consciously accepted that God existed, it was as a response to joyful things, not to fear or sorrow. God is there because life is glorious, not because death is terrible.

Not that that has anything to do with this thread.

[IamMissingaLink]

the idea of death sits uncomfortably with us because we generally do not identify ourselves as purely physical beings - in our heart of hearts or something like that. think of the fact that you have an individual consciousness - the statement: "i am" needs no further justification. and moreover this "i" is something indivisible, despite the fact that the physical components that you face in a mirror will change hundreds of times in your lifespan. what is it that aknowledges, that reflects, that remains constant? ask yourself if you think that this can disappear forever and ever? are you simply your brain, a habedashery of your bits? if the answer is no, then of course not to worry, because then something of you must remain when the physical has dissipated. if the answer is yes, then surely there is nothing to worry about, as what you are must be some kind of illusion anyway?

get hold of some walt whitman, and whatever you think remember that living is the important bit ;-)
I like what u have said. I will get hold of some walt whitman stuff, thanks!

[Neo_Sephiroth]

i dont understand the atttitiude some athiests can have toward death..I can understand acceptance of death - but not errm seeing it as positive or just being indifferent to it.
Come on!! How can vamoose, nada, no thoughts, no feelings, just nothingness be an okay end point? Is not your knee-jerk reaction against this? It could never sit comforatbly with me.
Are there an athiests who have wanted to live forever, as impossible as it is?
For the record, Im not an athiest. I am agnostic.

...The ones who supposedly feel indifferent or have no thoughts on death may not actually feel that way...It maybe because they do not want to face the reality of the eventuality of their death...

...So, in turn, they become indifferent to the thoughts of their demise...Because if they dwell on the thought of death it might possibly drive them insane...

...The ones who accept death are the ones who realizes that in the face of their own death, they cannot not do anything about it...But in facing that reality, they do not become indifferent but become a little more accepting of it...Of course, not everybody like the idea of dying...But they still accept it and live life not dwelling on that which would make them waste their precious moments here on earth...

...Then there are the ones who realizes this eventuality but fear it still and has a hard time accepting it...Such as yourself...

...This is due to possibility that you've come across this subject at a young age...

...You see...You seem to be a very intelligent young lady...But your age still stands...

...At this point in time, you have not made enough of a progression in life and gain enough experience to be able to face the subject of death properly...

...You are still young and you don't want to die...You found your way into this subject too fast and could not handle the thought of dying...

...But once you get older...Gain enough experience in life...You will see that death is nothing to fear...

...Of course, it isn't always that way...Even some adults have a hard time coping with the idea of death...

...For them, they wonder where they're headed...What are they leaving behind...Is anyone going to miss them...Did they leave a good impression or a mark behind so that someone will remember them and pass on their legacy or ideas...?

...Maybe what hurts the most about this idea of death is that of the possibility you will no longer exist...

...As for me...Well, I have no problem with death...I'm not indifferent to the idea...But I'm not going to dwell on it...I have plans...I have goals...And I am confident that I will succeed in carrying it out to the fullest...

...What if die a little early then expected...? Well, I haven't taken that out of my calculation...But I plan for that as well...

...Either way...I pretty sure that almost everybody told you this already but don't stress on it...

...It's all good...

[B-Mental]

i am actually more afraid of living forever... death is scary, but living is forever is scarier. if a person were to live forever, they would have to watch their loved ones die all around them...i would certainly not be able to do that. thats where the saying..."live life to the fullest" comes from. death is apart of life and life is to die in the end.

I wholeheartedly agree with that sentiment. I remember reading the Green Mile by Stephen King, and then seeing the movie. I kept thinking about how long a mouse would live and how long the human lifespan is. How long would the narrator live? I could not stop thinking that it would be extremely difficult to endure such longevity. I think your mind would have to create a mechanism to cope with the situation.

Personally, I do not fear death. I don't fear pain, although I don't embrace it. Acknowledging pain and death as intrinsic parts of life brings peace to me. It sets me free to live on my own terms without fear.

[cuppajoe_9]

i dont understand the atttitiude some athiests can have toward death..I can understand acceptance of death - but not errm seeing it as positive or just being indifferent to it.Why not be indifferent? It will happen whether or not I spend a lot of time worrying about it. The fact that one will die is perhaps the only aspect of one's life that is completely beyond his or her* control. Indifference is a perfectly reasonable response. The thing that does bother me about death is that the world will keep going, and I have no assurances that the people who come after me will not set up fascism or resume enslaving one another or (worse) forget how to use an aphostrophe, and I, being dead, will be unable to do a thing about it.

Come on!! How can vamoose, nada, no thoughts, no feelings, just nothingness be an okay end point? Is not your knee-jerk reaction against this? It could never sit comforatbly with me.As Rosencrantz says, one always forgets to take into account that one is dead. Nothingness would certainly be unpleaant now, but once I'm dead I will be unable to experience it, or anything else.


* See this thread (http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19476) if you would like to know why I cringed whilst typing that.

[Shadowsarin]

Personally, I am terrified of death. The whole concept of no longer being alive...it scares me. I honestly would rarther live forever than die, I'm that scared.

[Redzeppelin]

I suppose the fear of death might be related to the idea that it's the one human experience you can't come back and tell someone else about - so it is ultimately unknowable. What happens when one dies?

Perhaps fear of death is aptly expressed by Hamlet - whose ponderings on the "dreams" (unknowable experiences - the afterlife, I assume) that follow death are what make us fear it. That fear, Hamlet says, is enough to make us bear the ills of this life- because these, at least, we know. I suppose how you see death - final point of oblivious disintegration, or transition point to one of a number of afterlife possibilities - would have a large influence as to whether or not one feared it.

[Eagleheart]

I suppose how you see death - final point of oblivious disintegration, or transition point to one of a number of afterlife possibilities - would have a large influence as to whether or not one feared it.
Not unavoidably true...Quite often some atheists' notion of "oblivious disintegration" and the indifference accompanying it place them in a far more advantageous position than do some religiously devoted people's hysterical fits in face of death...
A paradox perhaps, but I have seen some surprisingly larger number of "believers in afterlife", whose terror of death is formidable and proverbial/proverbial in that the common person in my culture is afraid more of people's reaction to death than death itself/...
Interesting really - these same people, steadfast in sacred rituals and all the requirements of their religion, forbid the mention of death and are overlooking God's promises of afterlife...

[subterranean]

I personally don't fear death and my biggest fear is actually the death of my loved ones. In this case, I'd prefer to leave than to be left; pretty selfish thought, some might say. People often mentioned about "not being ready" and those who believe in divine being may do some "bargaining" with the gods they believe in, about prolonging their lifes, give them another chance (when they're dying), etc. But in general, we know that no one can be completely ready when it comes to death.

[Bookworm Cris]

This is hard for many because, growing up in a first-world nation, we do not see, feel, smell death regularly; it is alien to us. Most are content to let a problem fester, become gangrenous and overtake their enjoyments, than settle it.

Until you've experienced a massive trauma: watched a loved one die, caused the death of another, held the pieces of what was minutes ago a friend--you can have no handle on what death might feel like.

Everything dies. Everything springs back to rebirth. Watch the seasons and appreciate how many more times you can see such a microcosim of your life...it might alleviate some of the trite stressors in your busy-bustle lifestyle.
Personally, death is nothing to me. I become fertilizer, allow other things to grow. And? I hope to die of cancer; immediate death is such a rip-off. You only die once, so I want my mind in tact, and time to feel and really experience it. Not to mention, it gives you a grace period to console your loved ones. Alzheimers or degenerative mental conditions, now that is depressing. I don't care to hang around this mortal coil unless I retain function.

Death just makes every moment more beautiful and passionate, however painful the present may be.

That´s it, Darl. People fear death because they are not used to it. Parents don´t take their children to funerals (I went to the first one when I was 19), death is not mentioned, is feared; and, on the other side, it´s banalized through TV and Movies; children watch cartoons where everybody explodes and falls and gets shot and nothing happens (no blood at all); teenagers watch movies where cars are smashed, people are shot (lots of blood), but in both cases, there are NO consequences.
In primitive cultures (I mean indians, and others), death is part of life. Children participate of the rituals of death, like they participate of the rituals of growing, marrying, and birth. So death is not feared (like Joseph Campbell used to say).

Thinking about death may end our fear to it. And may increase our joy for life. Whether we have only one life or an immortal soul, with many lives, we may live each moment for itself. Enjoy life, and fear not death.;)

But I agree, the worst is not dying, but becoming irreversibly ill (Alzheimer and the like), that´s really sad.

[Sir Dovesinn]

[QUOTE=cuppajoe_9;294485]Why not be indifferent? It will happen whether or not I spend a lot of time worrying about it. The fact that one will die is perhaps the only aspect of one's life that is completely beyond his or her* control. Indifference is a perfectly reasonable response. The thing that does bother me about death is that the world will keep going, and I have no assurances that the people who come after me will not set up fascism or resume enslaving one another or (worse) forget how to use an aphostrophe, and I, being dead, will be unable to do a thing about it.

Indifference to death is what I can not accept. And I might go as far as to say that I find it shallow and degrading for the human being. A metaphor of Pascal lingers in my head: man is a reed, the weakest in nature, but a thinking reed; there is not need of the whole universe to smash it, a drop of water will do; but the man remains nobler than his killer because he knows that he dies. And the advantage which this whole great universe has over the small fragile reed, this universe does not know.

Indifference is paralyses, paralyses of that WHAT which makes man man, the faculty of thought.
I want to ask the indifferent: Have you tackled the problem of death and getting tired solving it became indifferent?
Death is more important that life.
Acceptance or fear: both of them are worthier of their beholder. And there can be no true acceptance without true fear. One must first die so that he might then live. Life begins with the problem of death.
I am intrigued and I can not understand the people who in their 60s care not to talk about death (in any tone). I see from their conversation and their gesture that they ‘lived ‘ and they never realized that they die. I can’t even call these people indifferent. I would be sorry for them, but I can’t really be.

As about myself, I might say that I calmed down. I outlived my crisis partially and the rest I carry along with me. I plan to smile death when it comes. I also wish not to die accidentally but to have the two seconds time to prepare death a warm place in me. But I do have a life for that.
I am more afraid about dying for nothing, I wish to learn something about life before I die. I can not logically sustain that, I just find it of greatest importance.
Once I used to regret dying for all the books that I did not read.

Now I can not conceive the finity of my existence. I told once to a friend of mine:
“—You know, I can not understand why am I not allowed to live all the lives of all the people in all the universes in all the time. I wish to be a stout drinking mountaineer to think of the god who murdered my children, I wish to be a ballerina to sleep with fairy dancers, I wish to be the stone washed by the Atlantic, I wish to be cancer ill… and so on…
and my momentary smart friend:
--You want to be God!”

I may just as well be! Just look of how much I CAN, wish.

Might seem to rough.
I suspect myself of too little sense of humour.

[Sir Dovesinn]

Indifference to death is indifference to one's self.
Who is indifferent to himself?
I can in the moment make up two sorts:
1. the one who has nothing to lose
2. the one who didn't discover himself

[cuppajoe_9]

Indifference is paralyses, paralyses of that WHAT which makes man man, the faculty of thought.I'm not ignoring the problem, I'm simply recognising that it isn't a problem. Death isn't something to be feared or loved or hated or looked forward to or dreaded, it's just there, and it always will be there whether I worry about it or not. Not worrying about it leaves me free to deal with the real problem, which is that the world is not as it should be, much of the time. This is where death becomes a bit troublesome, as it leaves me a finite stretch of time in order to make the world as it should be. Other than that, there's simply nothing to worry about. Right now I can get up and walk around and breath and process sensory information, and some time in the future I will not be able to do any of those things. I see no need to make a big screaming deal about it.

[bhekti]

I'm not ignoring the problem, I'm simply recognising that it isn't a problem. Death isn't something to be feared or loved or hated or looked forward to or dreaded, it's just there, and it always will be there whether I worry about it or not. ...... I see no need to make a big screaming deal about it.

A big sreaming about it? From the way you express it, it sounds to me that such attitudes towards death bother you.....

[IamMissingaLink]

Cuppajoe has successfully reasoned his way out of fearing death....although i have not been able to do that, I can't really see anything bad about it (despite my previous posts - which was purely curiosity about how some are able to be indifferent).

[cuppajoe_9]

A big sreaming about it? From the way you express it, it sounds to me that such attitudes towards death bother you.....

No, I can certainly understand them. (Edit here) I don't fear death as a concept, but when I am in a position where I have reason to believe I am about to experience it, I yell as loud as the next guy. That time I fell down a cliff, for example. (end of edit). I was actually trying to come across as lighthearted with the 'screaming deal' comment. Didn't work, eh?

[Sir Dovesinn]

I learned swimming not as a child but as a full grown up person. I swum and swum and swum but I never got too far from the shore. As this happened I panicked and swum with all my power to get to shore. I could swim, but only in low waters. This was no swimming. I realised that I was afraid of not being able to return safe, I was afraid I could die there. I just overcome my fear when I jumped out of the boat in the middle of the lake, then only, I was really swimming.
I must say I was until now in no big danger to die. If I would scream? I have no idea.

Theoretically I am not so afraid of dying anymore.
But is it me the self built by my brain through teoretization?
In Jung I read something that depressed me : we are made out experiences, that is- what we live and not what we fantasise while reading. I trust Jung, but then, I have no chance because my life seems always emptier as what I would whish it to be.

In any case. I do not trust reason when it comes to solving such problems. There are very strong rational logical judgements (that one can read also in this posts) which attend to define and resolve the problem of human existence and death. But do we in end effect decide with our heads?
Yes, we may hide in the back of a rational logic, but did we really decide according rational logic? Our affects have their own logic. For myself I can say that I must consider the possible rational answers first, but I do get attached to a feeling, a intuition, impulse or smth like that and this stands strait in front of me stronger and more impressive that the magnificent logical construction.

Cuppajoe, I must tell you that you do not know what world should be like. You have no right to make world as you think it should be like. I definitively have another idea about that than you, so, I tell you: do not try to make the world in your image because I do too have a right to this world. Fascists also wanted to transform the world according to their image.
Do not play the generous, first assume responsibility for yourself. This is all you are asked for. And when we all do this the world will become a better place.

[dramasnot6]

But in general, we know that no one can be completely ready when it comes to death.

I agree with you there Sub :nod: We can never be fully prepared for something so mysterious and unknown for the pure fact that it is unknown. No matter how open a mind we have, or w how deep an acceptance we feel towards the subject, we still do not entirely know. I have known people with terminal illnesses who say they feel very ready and accepting of death, even when they agree it is unknown. I think most people in their mind, to make themselves feel more comfortable with the thought, establish two possible outcomes for death based on the sum of ancient societal beliefs all over the world that still thrive in some form today. That, after death, one either simply never wakes up or undergoes some sort of continuation of like(whether it be another life, a heaven or hell, a ghost, etc.). Even with an open mind we still set limitations. I think fear is established about death not around a possible outcome of going to a certain place with very negative connotations. I think it's established in the possibility that death may lead to such a mysterious, unknown outcomes that it is completely out of grasp of the human mind and imagination. The truly unknown, not jsut the little details like "if i go into another life what form will it be?" "who is at the gates of heaven?" but something wholly out of our mental reach. Perhaps it is the sense of superiority and anthropocentric attitude that is installed in us at birth being challenged that causes us to fear. We like to think, as humans are the primary creators of religion, that it is us that knows and understands the great mysteries of life and death because of our relatively advanced mentalities. And perhaps,getting into a much bigger subject here, our advanced brains and agknowledgement of such mysteries is what causes us to produce such things as religion in order to establish control around the subject. Because what gives greater power then power over the unknown? The wholly unknown is every possible aspect, including the power available, being unknown and therefore for all we know power over the concept of death could be limitless.

[dramasnot6]

Cuppajoe, I must tell you that you do not know what world should be like. You have no right to make world as you think it should be like. I definitively have another idea about that than you, so, I tell you: do not try to make the world in your image because I do too have a right to this world. Fascists also wanted to transform the world according to their image.
Do not play the generous, first assume responsibility for yourself. This is all you are asked for. And when we all do this the world will become a better place.

We all have the right Dovesinn to state our opinions. Expressing our own ideal images of the world is a right everyone should have, freedom of speech. Whether you act on those thoughts, as the "fascists" did, is an entirely different matter. Simply by stating your own opinion you are defying fascist belief as you are not conforming to that of everyone elses as expected and wanted. And everyone has their own opinion of "what the world should be like" anyway, why else do we strive to change things in our life according to how we want it lived? Everytime you make a decision youre creating a preference over a certain aspect of life compared to another based on your opinion of how the world should be lived. It's human nature to be bias, we do not all share the same context and experiences. We therefore all have different opinions, but it's all in perspective of whose opinion is more valuable then someone elses. We therefore should all be able to equally state our thoughts and beliefs.

[dramasnot6]

I suppose the fear of death might be related to the idea that it's the one human experience you can't come back and tell someone else about - so it is ultimately unknowable. What happens when one dies?

.

Very much agreed Redeppelin. :nod:

[Guzmán]

I believe Dylan Thomas wrote this poem when his father died:
"Do not go gentle into that good night"

"Do not go gentle into that good night,
Old age should burn and rave at close of day;
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Though wise men at their end know dark is right,
Because their words had forked no lightning they
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Good men, the last wave by, crying how bright
Their frail deeds might have danced in a green bay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

Wild men who caught and sang the sun in flight,
And learn, too late, they grieved it on its way,
Do not go gentle into that good night.

Grave men, near death, who see with blinding sight
Blind eyes could blaze like meteors and be gay,
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.

And you, my father, there on the sad height,
Curse, bless, me now with your fierce tears, I pray.
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light. "

[bhekti]

No, I can certainly understand them. (Edit here) I don't fear death as a concept, but when I am in a position where I have reason to believe I am about to experience it, I yell as loud as the next guy. That time I fell down a cliff, for example. (end of edit). I was actually trying to come across as lighthearted with the 'screaming deal' comment. Didn't work, eh?

It worked..it worked..:p