the issue of assisted suicide-please help me

[Twisted_Sister]

well, my instructor has me doing this argumentative essay, i chose to do it on assisted suicide, is it right or wrong. i only have my opinion on the matter and it is that i think assisted suicide it a right in which we all have. i need other peoples point of view that think its wrong....so i would very much appreciate it if anyone could help me......thank you.

[kathycf]

Try this searchpage (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=assisted+suicide&btnG=Google+Search), there are some interesting links (ethical issues, physician assisted suicide, ect..) that should provide food for thought. Good luck with your essay.

[mtpspur]

If only I'ld seen this the other day when I was in a mood. I have this feeling that you are relating this to medical cases of a painful terminal nature. And therefore can romanticize it better.

This issue hits perilously close to home for me. My mother almost suceeded when I was about 11 or 12. I was reading a Batman comic at the time. She never relapsed thank God but I've since felt the loss of innocence and I truly believe EVERY relationship I have is with a view it can be taken away by a thoughtless act of selfishness admist great mental (and sometimes physical) anguish.

In my AF days a young Airman tried it twice because of a dear john letter--got drunked up first then slit his wrists the PROPER way then rampaged thru the dorm. You haven't lived til you've tried cleaning blood off a mirror--TWICE--got shipped to a VA Hospital after attempt #2--and no one else in the dorm would touch the room except me and a friend--the curse of being chief clerk of an Orderly Room and the First Sergeant's right hand man.

So assist away--have some fun.

Bitter--you bet. Now I'm in a mood.

[mtpspur]

Wow some demons never rest. Sorry to take it out on you. Went and played solitaire majong. I apologize twisted sister for letting personal feelings get in the way. As they always will when THIS subject comes up. Try me on abortion sometime I have a couple stories there too.

If this involves medical conditions my sympathies to the sufferer but I would still turn it down simply because for me anyway--how would I truly KNOW if the person making the request was in a fit frame of mind. What relationship do I stand with said person that such a request could be made. (To clear the air--the abortion story was a friend of mine made the decision but wanted me along for moral support since Daddy wasn't around and marriage wasn't an option. Turned out she wasn't pregnant. And she married someone else 6 months later. Always a friend--never a groom until my long suffering wifefinally showed up 2 years later.)

Back to subject--does said future investigator of an afterlife fully have a grip on the know turning back point of this. Thankfully the FIVE people I've been acquainted with botched the job though the airman and mother came closest. The 2 others were acquaitances and I will NEVER tell anyone here of the 5th--painful memories indeed.

What I'm trying to say is that I respect the gift of life even in the dark times and I do a terrible job of playing God. The scars run too deep.

I'm actually curoius about your instructor and your 'Hell' tagline. If you are in personal anguish you are far from being alone though I get you believe you may be alone. If I am out of line I again tender my apologies but reserve my right to be concerned.

No longer in a mood. YTou've actually been a help--good to clean the wounds sometimes.

[Twisted_Sister]

i was talking more about people who had medical conditions and wanted to have the right do decide they want to die and end suffering. iam sorry about your past experiences on this subject,mtpspur.as for my tagline....i put hell because i live in the desert and it get very hot here. i know that may sound like i am in personal anguish but sometimes things arent always that deep.

[grace86]

I had a paper turned in just the other week and the topic was "Should a terminally ill patient have the moral right to choose death legally"

The stronger argument was FOR assisted suicide for terminally ill patients, but it is hard to come up with a sound argument against it.

One argument against assisted suicide is that if we allow terminally ill patients to have that option, pretty soon people living as a quadrapulegic (sp?) and a love sick teen would want the option..i.e. slippery slope...but that can be countered by installing certain rules. Oregon, the only state that allows assisted suicide to dying patients has three rules:

1. The patient must be terminally ill - to be determined by doctor

2. The patient must be mentally stable - to be determined by a psychiatrist

3. The pain cannot be alleviated - to be determined by proper authority like doctor or pathologist etc.

I found it extremely hard to make an argument against. If you argue that it is against religious or moral beliefs, so the government should make it illegal...well it could be argued that people find abortions wrong...but it is claimed to be supported by the constitution.

Good luck. I hope this helps just a little bit.

[Twisted_Sister]

i had a discussion about peoples religious beliefs too. they said that it was wrong because god is suppose to decide when it is our time to die. and that if a person gets the right to decide when he or she dies then they are going to mess with their fate. since fate is abloute, dont u think that any choice we make, it will lead us to our destiny?.....

[mtpspur]

I stand corrected on the medical issues but will never belive a person experiencing illness is in a state where there thinking processes about to live/not live are free from reaching conclusions you can't back off from. Also I consider bringing a second party into such a very personal life changing situation to be an interesting case of selfishness and sharing the load.

As far as the dessert it beats 12 winters in North dakota let me tell you. Again sorry for the presumptions--I had a really 'intense' son who made everything a 'major' tragedy--his glass wasn't half enpty it was broke and stolen to boot. Doing much better now.

Actually glad it wasn't as deep as I feared--I already met my quota last February of disturbed females for the year and am finally recovering from that bit of charity turned turned incredibly on its head. Yes another soap but we'll leave that one in the recycle box.

By the by fate is an excuse to duck responsibility for our actions or lack thereof. Neither God or the neighbors are impressed.

[Logos]

Hello Twisted_Sister,

I've moved this to the Philosophy section and added a little to the title so people can see right away what this is about, I hope you don't mind :) I think you might get more discussion about it here and I think its a little bit 'deeper' than the usual General Chat topics.

[Virgil]

well, my instructor has me doing this argumentative essay, i chose to do it on assisted suicide, is it right or wrong. i only have my opinion on the matter and it is that i think assisted suicide it a right in which we all have. i need other peoples point of view that think its wrong....so i would very much appreciate it if anyone could help me......thank you.

Here's a distinction I have. Yes, I think a person has the rght to take his life, but I do not believe that a physcian has the right or should have the right to assist that suicide. Actually I don't think anyone has the right to assist anyone in a suicide. That is murder. If you want to take your life, you will have to do it yourself.

[Twisted_Sister]

Here's a distinction I have. Yes, I think a person has the rght to take his life, but I do not believe that a physcian has the right or should have the right to assist that suicide. Actually I don't think anyone has the right to assist anyone in a suicide. That is murder. If you want to take your life, you will have to do it yourself.


right....but the patients are terminally ill......they cant kill themselves if they cant even move......or if their in too much pain....they can only say tell the dr. so end their life. I mean a person that is so sick isn't going to get up and take a gun to their head.....thats why they request a dr. to do it. In the eyes of many, including yourself, assisted suicide in hospice care is murder, that is why assisted suicide is such a controversal issue.

[Virgil]

right....but the patients are terminally ill......they cant kill themselves if they cant even move......or if their in too much pain....they can only say tell the dr. so end their life. I mean a person that is so sick isn't going to get up and take a gun to their head.....thats why they request a dr. to do it. In the eyes of many, including yourself, assisted suicide in hospice care is murder, that is why assisted suicide is such a controversal issue.

This is how I understand it; I don't know if this is what the real practice is. If patients are in pain, then doctors keep increasing morphine type drugs until either the pain stops or the medication slows their heart down to nothing. And patients can keep requesting more pain killer.

I find this a better practice than sanctioned euthanasia.

[Eagleheart]

No simple bedside meeting between strangers should determine the end of a life. If we have previously agreed on the sacredness of human life, than thrusting ourselves in remorseful murdering can undermine all. Dispute on motives is largely irrelevant too. A big percent of the robberies are due too hunger, but those behind the numbers nevertheless are incarcerated...Laws are ignorant of motives and as long as human life is a most precious law and our faculties preclude the awareness of all causes, we are not to assist in suicide,despite the wishes of the patients. If we adopt this practice I do not see a hindrance for us not to intervene in the suicide attempts of simply depressed human beings, as their desire dictates so...The life of a certain individual is not a thirty minute story telling...we only see a moment of it...and never know how it has begun or how it must end...and no solid judgements can be made on this

[ghideon]

I believe that the arguments for and against assisted suicide have already been made quite well and so I will not repeat the previous posts. Rather, I want to put your question in a slightly different context.
Opinions are opinions and facts are facts. Apples and oranges. Unfortunately, we all mix these up all the time. I used to say that "capitalism is wrong". But after reading a wonderful book on the logical difference between a statement of opinion and a statement of fact I now say "Capitalism is, from my perspective, hurting many people and based on economic exploitation. I believe that we can do better." I feel so much better being less dogmatic, big change for someone who has had long admired radicals and revolutionaries.
I say this as a caveat. If the assignment specifically asks you to say right or wrong then so be it. But do be careful in terms of clarifying when you are stating a belief, perspective, attitude,morality that is inherently subjective versus plain truths/facts such as: the number of people who have died by assisted suicide in the past five years or the documented statements from experts in the field of ethics, or quotes from doctors/patients/family members. They may say things that are not true but it is usually a fact that they did say them and so those statements can be used to substantiate or clarify a position or argument.
I really hope this helps you out. I apologize if I am just repeating concepts that you already grasp well. I do not mean to preach or come across as arrogant.

I guess I am a bit of a campaign to help this culture move from angry,red faced, sometimes violent fights:flare: over crucial issues to more reasoned, humble, open and honest discourse.:thumbs_up

good luck
thanks for listening:)

ps:
Regarding the last post. The law does pay attention to intent, but not enough. There is a core difference in our judicial system between crimes of "premeditation" versus "crimes of passion". In the former the accused had a plan, a thought out intent. In the crime of passion the accused is seen as acting in the heat of the moment and not acting from a place of reasoned calculated intent.
Also, there is the importance of "mitigating circumstances." For example, if a mother robs a store to get food for her child the hunger of her child could be presented as a mitigating cricumstance. And the sentence could be mitigated,i.e.lessened, if the judge or jury believe that is appropriate. Oh, I just remembered the opposite term "aggravating" circumstances. That is, reasons that a sentence should be increased. Say, for example, if a rapist was extraordinarly violent in the course of the crime or if he was clearly a rational, functional person with a good job and thus the violent act could be seen as particularly cold and heinous.