Emily...big hoax?

[Wilfred]

I have been closl studying the poems of Emily Dickinson, and the more I study them the more I am convinced that she is just a big hoax. Any thoughts on this?

[Stanislaw]

Why would you think that?
Just curiouse.

[Wilfred]

there are lots of good reasons

[Stanislaw]

Could you recommend a specific collection that I could look at that would show me?

You made me curiouse, I would like to find an answer.

[Wilfred]

Read any major collection of her works, they all reek of her hoaxness.

[Stanislaw]

Thanks, I will get back to this thread.

[Wilfred]

No problem, any time.

[I hate Jane Austen]

If you are referring to Emily Dickinson as a Hoax because she is overrated, I disagree. I love Emily. She speaks of death and flies that buzz in the windows and worms. How interesting, especially compared with the artificial sugar creations of Jane Austen. Jane Austen never writes about death and flies and worms. However if you are referring to Emily as a hoax because she herself thought she was a great poet, I would remind you that she once wrote "Success is counted sweetest-By those who ne'er succeed." I hate Jane Austen #1

[I hate Jane Austen]

aha! I know why you think she is a hoax!! it is because the poem 'i am a hoax' by emily d. it has never been published. it goes like this:

" I am a hoax, I am a hoax,
be not troubled with my poetry,
instead turn to the worms,
who dwell in dirt,
or the horses, who eat hay,
beware, reader, of my hoaxiness."

from I hate jane austen #2 (aka Bob)
ps. i despise jane austen.

[Jay]

:D Bob (?), we got the hint ;) - I think

I like Emily's poems as well, even thought I haven't read many of them, not that easy to find here a copy in English...

[I hate Jane Austen]

Hey I hate Jane Austen #2, That poem is a hoax. It created a huge scandal when it was unearthed from the archives of the Kensington Library. Shame on you for falling for a fraud like that.
I hate Jane Austen #1 (original personality before we split)

[I hate Jane Austen]

oops. sorry about that. I forgot about the great hoax scandal.
I realize my error now. I am suprised at my error. I have always been an Emily D. fan, but i never though i would fall for something like that. Emily would be ashamed of me.

[fayefaye]

Looks like we have another schizo on the board. :) Ok, I Hate Jane Austen, list why you hate her so. I often criticize her work, but largely because all the literature students here love her so much, I do it just to watch them squirm. :) But I do like her writing style, and I'm curious as to why you absolutely HATE her. [yes, this has nothing to do with emily dickenson]

[Wilfred]

such a deep question. lets not get off the topic of emily being a hoax.

[Isagel]

It could be an interesting debate, but I need to know why you think so. Could you state your reasons? It ´s hard to have a discussion otherwise.

As "I hate Jane Austen" asked - do you mean that she is overrated or that her poems are frauds?

[nicholasburrus]

hello back round check

[piquant]

If there're no dashes it can't be Dickenson ;) . What do you mean Emily's a hoax? Clarification!

[Stanislaw]

Yeah, I looked I still don't get it.

[Wilfred]

As I said before, she is just a big hoax. She is just a fraud, I am firm beliver that her poems were written by some shady character, just to shock the notable poetical circles of the time that they were published.

[piquant]

Why don't you think that Emily wrote her poems? Who do you think did write them? What proof is there of this? :confused:

Also, very few of her poems were published during her lifetime, and those that were were edited to fit the "genteel", rhyming, "women's" poetry of the time (something which Emily absolutely hated). Not until after her death did she get any real acclaim.

[Wilfred]

Silly, someone wrote them after her death and then said that she wrote them a really long time ago. She is a hoax. A big one.

[piquant]

Wilfred, You make me want to rip my hair out! Proof! ;)

[Smae]

You know, if you don't like Emily's work, or think that it's bad or if you've read better, it really isn't her fault.
What I've learned as a poet, myself, is that those who read the poetry of others, write better poetry themselves.
Dickinson lead a very shealtered life and hardly ever had any social contact, let alone any access to other types of poetry.
Ergo, if she can write that well, having not read other poems, it's pretty freakin amazing how well she did write.
Is she a hoax? I don't think so...her work is very unique...it doesn't sound like anyone off the street just decided to write it.
Her original words are the reason she was published any ways.

[Sindhu]

I'd like to join in the demand for proof- please! I don't think the poems are the kind a prankster could just reel off to kid people- they are way too intense for that!
And if we are not discussing the merits of what is known as Emily's poetry, but just the "hoaxiness";) because someone else wrote them, personaly, I don't think it's that big a deal- just like the Shakespeare debate- it's of historical interest- but what actually matters are the plays and in Emily's case the poems, which are THERE in black and white- the author's identity doesn't detract or add to the merit or otherwise of the works. And anyway, the whole idea of a stable authorial voice is pretty much on shaky footing right now, isn't it?
Sindhu.

[ShoutGrace]

I've always detected a slight hoaxish odor from Emily . . . in naive years past I'd assumed my uncultured nostrils were betraying me . . . hoaxes cannot forever go uncovered.

[ktd222]

As I said before, she is just a big hoax. She is just a fraud, I am firm beliver that her poems were written by some shady character, just to shock the notable poetical circles of the time that they were published.

Maybe you should take time and read some of Thomas Higginson's encounters about Emily. No better evidence than first hand experience.

[alja123]

I have to say: This is one of the funniest posts i've ever read - first with a guy convinced for some odd reason that emily was a hoax giving no reasons whatsoever and very short replies sheding almost no extra information on the subject. Then a guy with a split personality hating another poet and making up a poem claiming to be dickinson. Then a bunch of bewildered Dickinson fans questioning the whole thing. If someone made many accounts on this forum and posted the whole topic herself i'd have to say it's a work of genius. Otherwise just funny...

On a slightly more serious note Sindhu said that the authours identity doesn't add to the works, and in this case i have to disagree. (as hard as it is) I'd say that alot of the appeal of Emily is that she was a woman, led a very reclusive lifestyle, yet ended up turning out amazing works of art that were absolutely groundbreaking for their time. I'm not sure whether i'd appreciate it so much if all her poems were written by some guy in say the last 30 years. Not to deny that all the meaning of the poems comes from their actual content but for me some of their appeal comes from knowing that the person who wrote them was a very, very special woman.

[ShoutGrace]

Maybe you should take time and read some of Thomas Higginson's encounters about Emily. No better evidence than first hand experience.

He's not out of the woods either . . . I greatly suspect his hoaxery as well.



I'm not sure whether i'd appreciate it so much if all her poems were written by some guy in say the last 30 years.

Or, rather, you'd appreciate them more if they were actually written by her. ;)


Not to deny that all the meaning of the poems comes from their actual content but for me some of their appeal comes from knowing that the person who wrote them was a very, very special woman.

Or a very, very special fake.

[alja123]

Ok, maybe not the most relevant thing, but it sprang to mind... and anyway this particular post was devoid of any of her poetry whatsoever:

By my Window have I for Scenery
Just a Sea -- with a Stem --
If the Bird and the Farmer -- deem it a "Pine" --
The Opinion will serve -- for them --

It has no Port, nor a "Line" -- but the Jays --
That split their route to the Sky --
Or a Squirrel, whose giddy Peninsula
May be easier reached -- this way --

For Inlands -- the Earth is the under side --
And the upper side -- is the Sun --
And its Commerce -- if Commerce it have --
Of Spice -- I infer from the Odors borne --

Of its Voice -- to affirm -- when the Wind is within --
Can the Dumb -- define the Divine?
The Definition of Melody -- is --
That Definition is none --

It -- suggests to our Faith --
They -- suggest to our Sight --
When the latter -- is put away
I shall meet with Conviction I somewhere met
That Immortality --

Was the Pine at my Window a "Fellow
Of the Royal" Infinity?
Apprehensions -- are God's introductions --
To be hallowed -- accordingly --


I personally think that this poem is pretty much proof that Emily Dickinson IS NOT in fact a hoax... at least not in the hearts of many... at least not in my heart.

[WriterAtTheSea]

Okay, Shout... Would you mind elaborating on your reasoning behind that thought? Emily is a pretty serious name in the Literature world...so I would really like some clearer definition brought to your statement. It would be appreciated. ;)

[ShoutGrace]

It's an overall feeling. The poems commonly attributed to her practically scream "Hoax!!"

Whilst trying to fight off this naturally occuring phenomenon, a little whisper starts tickling my ear . . . "Fraud, fraud, fraud . . ."

Definitely the biggest hoax in literary history . . . that I've encountered so far, anyway.

[alja123]

Ok I just worked out the perfect way to settle this debate, and what's more to stay completely in character with the general character of the discussion:

Wilfred, you're a Hoax!!!
You're a Hoax ShoutGrace!!!!!

That feel good eh?

[ShoutGrace]

It didn't do much for me . . . but I hope it was good for you. ;)

It's still an honor to be in the same hoaxish class as Dickinson . . . maybe I'll turn into a really famous hoax and have people remember my alleged poetry long after I've departed. :D

[ktd222]

He's not out of the woods either . . . I greatly suspect his hoaxery as well.

Well let me say Shoutgrace’s empty claim of Emily Dickinson as being a hoax is less believable than Thomas Higginson’s recount of correspondences with Emily Dickinson.

[Vezara]

Just a thought...I think the author of this thread just doesn't have anything better to do... and that he/she just wants to get some attention, that's all. It is indeed attention-catching if you suddenly out-of-the-blue claim that someone notoriously famous is a hoax, especially someone who a lot of people admire.

Poor guy! :( Maybe we should just all say "Hi!" to him just to make his day.

[Scheherazade]

Just a thought...I think the author of this thread just doesn't have anything better to do... and that he/she just wants to get some attention, that's all. It is indeed attention-catching if you suddenly out-of-the-blue claim that someone notoriously famous is a hoax, especially someone who a lot of people admire.

Poor guy! :( Maybe we should just all say "Hi!" to him just to make his day.Please do not personalise your arguments.

[Logos]

Just a thought...I think the author of this thread just doesn't have anything better to do...

I guess "Wilfred" did find better things to do: Last Activity: 01-31-2004 10:52 PM
Blame it on ShoutGrace for resurrecting this 'gem' of a 2+ yr old topic :p

Oh and Emily was very much a real person according to the most comprehensive genealogical site in the world http://www.familysearch.org/
Pics of her gravestones on findagrave.com "called back on 15 May 1886" (http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Dickinson&GSfn=Emily&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=282&)

[WriterAtTheSea]

:flare: I would have to concur with Logos...I have no reason to suspect or believe that Emily was anything but the real deal, and she was a heck of a good poet to say the least.

Here is an interesting little ditty. It is an exerpt available through "Project Muse."

Mitchell, Domhnall 1962- "Emily Dickinson, Ralph Franklin, and the Diplomacy of Translation"
The Emily Dickinson Journal - Volume 8, Number 2, Fall 1999, pp. 39-54
The Johns Hopkins University Press

Excerpt

On June 3rd, 1996, the Jones Library in Amherst, Massachusetts paid $24,150 to Sotheby's for an "unpublished poetical manuscript" by Emily Dickinson which was discovered afterwards to have been counterfeited by Mark Hofmann, the Utah forger and double murderer. Before this knowledge became public, however, and especially during the period when funds were being raised to make a bid on behalf of the Library, the appearance of a rare autograph poem generated considerable excitement. The discovery was additionally timely given the increasing levels of attention being paid to Dickinson manuscripts generally. Briefly stated, the assumption in many recent critical works is that studying Dickinson in any standard typographic edition is effectively to read her in translation, at one remove from her actual practices. More specifically, it has been claimed that line arrangements, the shape of words and letters, and the particular angle of dashes, are all potentially integral to any given poem's meaning, making a graphic contribution to its contents. 1 For people working on characteristics of Dickinson's poetry in manuscript form, then, the newly found lyric seemed to provide a novel opportunity for assessing the status of such characteristics.

Presupposing that the text was genuine, and that it would shortly receive close critical attention in a variety of scholarly publications, one of the questions facing the reader was how best to present reproductions of the work in other, textual and electronic, environments. This challenge was a miniature counterpart to the major and genuine difficulties Ralph Franklin had been working with for more than three decades. Franklin himself had approached the problem of representing the integrity of Dickinson's originals in different ways. :D

[ShoutGrace]

Well let me say Shoutgrace’s empty claim of Emily Dickinson as being a hoax is less believable than Thomas Higginson’s recount of correspondences with Emily Dickinson.

What if I write a bunch of letters with a person named Emily Dickinson and have her admit she is a hoax? Will that convince you? :D ;)


Just a thought...I think the author of this thread just doesn't have anything better to do... and that he/she just wants to get some attention, that's all.

They do indeed want attention . . . to be directed towards this briiliantly constructed hoax!!


Poor guy! :( Maybe we should just all say "Hi!" to him just to make his day.

Darn, Logos got there before I could:


I guess "Wilfred" did find better things to do: Last Activity: 01-31-2004 10:52 PM

Happy thoughts are never a bad thing, however. I'm sure Wilfred would appreciate it. :)


Blame it on ShoutGrace for resurrecting this 'gem' of a 2+ yr old topic :p


Or thank ShoutGrace for bringing this atrocity to public attention once again! :D


Oh and Emily was very much a real person according to the most comprehensive genealogical site in the world http://www.familysearch.org/
Pics of her gravestones on findagrave.com "called back on 15 May 1886" (http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GSln=Dickinson&GSfn=Emily&GSbyrel=all&GSdyrel=all&GSob=n&GRid=282&)

I bet you these are the same kind of people who will try and tell you that Jim Morrison and Elvis are dead. ;)

[ktd222]

What if I write a bunch of letters with a person named Emily Dickinson and have her admit she is a hoax? Will that convince you?

I doubt you could to any degree mimic printed letters by her. Go ahead, I'll be waiting to read those letters.

[NANCY1982]

This is my first time in this forum and I am in need of some guidance. I'm to write a 1-page paper on one of the following Emily Dickinson poems.


A Light exists in the Spring
A narrow fellow in the grass
Apparently with no surprise
As imperceptibly as grief
Because I could not stop for death
"Faith" is a fine intervention
I died for Beauty-but was scarce
I felt a funeral, in my brain
I heard a Fly buzz-when I died
I like a look of agony
I like to see it lap the miles
I never saw a moor
I taste liquor never brewed
It sifts from Leaden Sieves
Much madness is divinest Sense
One dignity delays for all
The last night that she lived
There is no Frigate like a book
There's a certain slant of light
There's been a death in the opposite house
There are the days when Birds come back
Twas warm-at first-like Us


I'm to note the theme of each, the similar subjects and viewpoints. I've read more than half of these and I'm totally confused. I was the same way with some of Nathaniel Hawthorne's novels, but after I read them over and over, I caught on. No such luck with these poems. I would appreciate a guide in the right direction; I just need a little guidance in understanding them.

[ShoutGrace]

This is my first time in this forum and I am in need of some guidance.

A big welcome to you then Nancy! :wave:


I've read more than half of these and I'm totally confused.

That makes a lot of sense to me. Have you read the subject title of this thread?


I was the same way with some of Nathaniel Hawthorne's novels, but after I read them over and over, I caught on.

Well, naturally. Hawthorne isn’t a gigantic fraud. :D


I would appreciate a guide in the right direction;

First I would ask you to open your mind and start thinking like a heroic iconoclast.


I just need a little guidance in understanding them.

The first step is a proper understanding of the word ‘hoax’. Do you have a dictionary handy? :D

[NANCY1982]

Well thanks ShoutGrace, I guess I'm in the wrong thread.

[ShoutGrace]

Well thanks ShoutGrace, I guess I'm in the wrong thread.

It’s no problem at all. :D

Whether or not you’re in the wrong thread depends on your intentions . . . there is always time available between homework problems to participate in some enlightening defrauding activities.

I sent you a PM by the way. ;)