Meaning of Life.

[sHaRp12]

It is in my humble opinion that life truly has no meaning. We are organisms put on this planet to live our life and and do what pleases us. We are nothing but another species with superior intelligence and reason. That is why our life has so much structure and beurocracy. We live our life in guaranteed death. We reproduce and the next generation goes through this life cycle. Repeated hundreds of times all while the process of Evolution takes place. Therefore our life truly has no meaning. In a broader sense nothing really has any meaning whatsoever. But our emotions, our emotions is what blinds us into this anomaly which very few ever realize that we are meaningless. On this earth to do only what pleases us.

I realize that this idea has brought many poets to their death by suicide.

Sincerely, A thoughtful adolescent and realist.

[bhekti]

It is in my humble opinion that life truly has no meaning. We are organisms put on this planet to live our life and and do what pleases us. We are nothing but another species with superior intelligence and reason. That is why our life has so much structure and beurocracy. We live our life in guaranteed death. We reproduce and the next generation goes through this life cycle. Repeated hundreds of times all while the process of Evolution takes place. Therefore our life truly has no meaning. In a broader sense nothing really has any meaning whatsoever. But our emotions, our emotions is what blinds us into this anomaly which very few ever realize that we are meaningless. On this earth to do only what pleases us.

Isn't that the meaning of your life, sharp?

[hitchhiker]

I disagree with you. It is my thought that life of all things is to simpaly reproduce and nothing more. We are here to create new homosapians to go on and recreate and same for those and the ones that follow. If you think we are just animals you can see what I mean by just looking at anything alse in nature trees, birds, insects, us its all to reproduce and keep the world in homeostasis.

[grace86]

I think, leaving out religious ideas, that the fact that you can even contemplate your own existence, and the possibilities of why you are on the earth shows that there is more meaning in our lives than just reproduction, survival and death.

[sHaRp12]

I find your opinions Interesting.

[avari]

Repeated hundreds of times all while the process of Evolution takes place. Therefore our life truly has no meaning.
using that logic, your life does have some meaning: to aid in evolution! and maybe then eventually someone's life will have more meaning.

On this earth to do only what pleases us.
personally, I think that would lead to anarchy and much unpleasantness (to say the least).
I totally agree with you, grace86. I, however, am religious so I think that the meaning or purpose of my life is to try to reach perfection (a holy state close to God) and to live for God and for others.

[grace86]

Well yes, Avari, I am devoted to my God and have my relationship with Him and cling to my beliefs...but I was just trying to say that even leaving out a religious, higher power out of the picture, there is still reason enough to say there is meaning to life. I just did not want to seem pushy on my beliefs. I could easily say that, well, a higher power is what gives us the awareness of the ability to contemplate meaning....so I was just trying to leave it simple. Sorry to give any misinterpretations on my beliefs. I am deeply religious though.

[caesar]

It is in my humble opinion that life truly has no meaning. We are organisms put on this planet to live our life and and do what pleases us. We are nothing but another species with superior intelligence and reason. That is why our life has so much structure and beurocracy. We live our life in guaranteed death. We reproduce and the next generation goes through this life cycle. Repeated hundreds of times all while the process of Evolution takes place. Therefore our life truly has no meaning. In a broader sense nothing really has any meaning whatsoever. But our emotions, our emotions is what blinds us into this anomaly which very few ever realize that we are meaningless. On this earth to do only what pleases us.

I realize that this idea has brought many poets to their death by suicide.

Sincerely, A thoughtful adolescent and realist.

I can't express, how glad I felt reading your opinion on life. I couldn't agree more with your conclusion that life is meaningless; also, with your reasoning that it is 'death' which strips life of its meaning. However, I don’t blame evolution as much as death.

I call my take on life as 'the theory of futility of life'. It is based on the premise that the primary objective of all living beings is to survive. If we can't survive forever, there would be no meaning to what we are doing now, because all that we have created will come to naught. It would mean that all our discoveries and inventions were in vain. Imagine how ridiculous it would seem then to (if we could) think that we fought and killed each other over ideologies, religion and borders - none of which eventually survived – no country without citizens, no god without his followers, no good, no bad. There would be nobody to even talk about us.

However, I do agree that the proposition that ‘humans cannot survive forever’ is debatable. But this is the reason for my holding such a despondent belief.

I'm sure, everyone would agree, when I say that life on earth will cease to exist when the sun burns out. In fact, existence would become impossible as soon as the sun begins to burns out (I mean, when our young yellow sun turns into a red giant). In short, we cannot continue to exist on earth forever. Unless we manage to colonize other parts of the universe and continue to do so from time to time, we won't be able to survive forever.

[raphien]

I am an advocate in Bombay and I have to face the harsh realities of life pretty often. I just wish to put my view across the table that, if nothing is meaningful then no one is meaningful and if that is the case, why do we feel a heart wrenching depthless black horror and sadness when we lose someone close to us? Or why do we feel at all. We find ourselves in a whirlwind mix of particles constantly in danger of collision and yes, sometimes there appears to be no meaning to it all. But it is not for what we receive in this life but what we are to others that provide the much-desired understanding of our purpose in living. The simplest people are the happiest because they are always surrounded by people who love them and who need them. In giving you shall and do receive.
( I don’t mean to preach but i'd like to reach)

sincerely, an optimistic and not so adolescent idealist.

[sHaRp12]

, if nothing is meaningful then no one is meaningful and if that is the case, why do we feel a heart wrenching depthless black horror and sadness when we lose someone close to us?

I believe I explained this is my post.


But our emotions, our emotions is what blinds us into this anomaly which very few ever realize that we are meaningless.

[byquist]

I can only say that I guarantee (and would put money on it) that if you fall in love tomorrow, you will diametrically change your opinion, and immediately discover that life has ultra-meaning, and your greatest wish would be to "stop time."

Another potential rebuff to your current view would be if you have (and take serious note of) or were to have a precious child, or adopted a child, say a baby, and then life immediately has very vital importance to it. (Not always so, as in the case of S. Plath still taking her life despite two lil' children sleeping in the next room.)

If you want to continue repeating this negation-based theory of life, have at it since its a free country, but definitely don't regularly go see Woody Allen films, since they tend to poke fun at this form of negativism.

[avari]

grace86, I'm sorry, I think what I said was the misleading post. I didn't mean to imply that you weren't religious, just that I was going to consider what you said with regards to religion. as I said earlier, I totally agree with you.

[grace86]

Avari, no harm, no apologies necessary...all hugs!

[Hyacinth Girl]

It is in my humble opinion that life truly has no meaning. We are organisms put on this planet to live our life and and do what pleases us.

Sharp, I see where you get this idea, but I would qualify it. Life may have no intrinsic meaning. . .we live, we die as any other animal. But that "superior intelligence and reason" you acknowledge humans to possess imbues us with a burden - we alone recognise the futility and meaninglessness of existence, therefore we have the responsibility to create meaning for ourselves.
This is not an intrinsic "meaning of life," some absolute quintessence- it is an individual construct forced upon us by the emotions and reason we possess.

[grace86]

I like the words you used to explain your view Hyacinth. It's like mine, only explained a little more.

[sHaRp12]

If you want to continue repeating this negation-based theory of life, have at it since its a free country,

Never did I intend this to come off as negative. I wanted to share this thought with individuals. I realize that our reason for being is the pursuit of happiness. Which is the meaning of my life, the pursuit of happiness.

....however when you look at what I wrote in a broad philosophical since yes it is true.

Im sorry if you miss interpreted what I wanted to say. I honestly take it as an insult if you think my purpose for this thread is to spread negation-based theories on life.

[caesar]

I can only say that I guarantee (and would put money on it) that if you fall in love tomorrow, you will diametrically change your opinion, and immediately discover that life has ultra-meaning, and your greatest wish would be to "stop time."

That is just a romantic way of giving meaning to life.

Indeed, I've wished that the time will stop and that the night will never be over; but, since, nothing lasts forever and since death is inevitable, ultimately, when I die, it doesn’t matter whether I was in love or not. This proposition, to which I subscribe, is predicated on the belief that my death is 'ultimate' and not my life.

However, I agree that, in a narrower sense by disregarding death, love is one of the things which makes life meaningful. I'll also add happiness, truth and freedom to the list of things which make life worth living. And I'm sure they are all interlinked, in the sense that true love can set me free and bring happiness.

[raphien]

byquist, your empathy and insight, i applaud

hyacinth, if I may,
OUR FEAR OF DEATH may have resulted in the birth of a plethora of foolsome strories to help us come to terms with it. but in truth no ones really been fooled, everyone knows that death is inescapable and just because we dont live forever does not translate by any reasonable means to the belief that life is meaningless and/or futile.

and sharp12, a thought,
Why do we need meaning in life or to find a purpose for us living? Your statement that there is no meaning in life makes no sense, serves no purpose and has about as much truth as the statement that the meaning of life IS TO LIVE. Why think on such futile lines where you wouldn’t make any more progress than a three-year-old child would trying its hand at calculus. The truth is that you FEEL that there is no meaning TO life because you just cant prove it either way.

and by the way i really find it heartbreaking that you attribute the suicide of great minds to this most dishonourable averment. i hold them in much higher esteem.raphien

[amanda_isabel]

an interesting thread...

anyway...

sharp may have a point, i think. i mean, think about it. we're born. we do stuff we want to and stuff we need to do. and then what happens? we reproduce. then we die, and, putting all religious stuff aside, we rot away. and our offspring are in this world to do the same thing.

so i come to this conclusion. whatever your life is, to you and to other people, depends on you just the same. if in your opinion your life is meaningless, then meaningless it will be. but if you choose to be optimistic about life's meaning, then you will find that life is indeed beautiful.

[Virgil]

I am an advocate in Bombay and I have to face the harsh realities of life pretty often. I just wish to put my view across the table that, if nothing is meaningful then no one is meaningful and if that is the case, why do we feel a heart wrenching depthless black horror and sadness when we lose someone close to us? Or why do we feel at all. We find ourselves in a whirlwind mix of particles constantly in danger of collision and yes, sometimes there appears to be no meaning to it all. But it is not for what we receive in this life but what we are to others that provide the much-desired understanding of our purpose in living. The simplest people are the happiest because they are always surrounded by people who love them and who need them. In giving you shall and do receive.
( I don’t mean to preach but i'd like to reach)

sincerely, an optimistic and not so adolescent idealist.
Welcome to lit net Raphien. We seem to be in need of another person with real life experience to show how positive and meaningful life can be. I like what you say here and it fits with my view of life. Life is neither a utopia or a dystopia. It's what you make of it. And helping others to make the world a little better is certainly meaningful and in my opinion ingrained in humanity. I remember as a young person (I'm getting old now) the feeling and expressing the same sort of melancholy and futility that is expressed by others here. At some point it either burns out or is fixed in your soul. As Amanda expresses it, ultimately it depends on you.

[caesar]

just because we dont live forever does not translate by any reasonable means to the belief that life is meaningless and/or futile.

Sure does, buddy.

The first disappointment that death brings is that I'll not continue to enjoy the fruits of my toil forever; somebody else will, after I die.

The second and the greatest disappointment that death brings is that one day, when life is completely wiped out from the face of the earth, there would be nobody to benefit form the product of our (humans) labour. There would be nobody to even talk about all that we did and created. So everything we are doing is futile and meaningless, if one day, ultimately, it's all going to come to naught.


therefore we have the responsibility to create meaning for ourselves.

Makes sense, if you can igonore death.


Why do we need meaning in life or to find a purpose for us living?


Welcome to lit net Raphien. We seem to be in need of another person with real life experience to show how positive and meaningful life can be.

So, this is what is called selective appreciation?

[Hyacinth Girl]

hyacinth, if I may,
OUR FEAR OF DEATH may have resulted in the birth of a plethora of foolsome strories to help us come to terms with it. but in truth no ones really been fooled, everyone knows that death is inescapable and just because we dont live forever does not translate by any reasonable means to the belief that life is meaningless and/or futile.
raphien
Raphien, welcome to the forum!

I think I may have to clarify what I said a bit.
I personally agree that death does not necessarily render life meaningless. My point is that outside of human perception, on a cosmic scale our lives are intrinsically meaningless. it is human emotion and perception that has the capacity to create meaning out of existence. For some, if they are not around forever to see the effect of what they do, life and existence has no real purpose or meaning (or any purpose outside the animal instinct to eat, sleep, reproduce, live), and so they deny even the possibility of meaning - they refuse to create such for themselves. Others choose to create a construct of meaning in existence even with the inevitability of death looming because they recognise the mind and spirit's need and ability to do so.
Ultimately, it should not matter that we die, or that humanity dies. Human perception created meaning, experienced it, and that in iself is an end.

[sHaRp12]

and by the way i really find it heartbreaking that you attribute the suicide of great minds to this most dishonourable averment. i hold them in much higher esteem.raphien

It is the truth. Im not undermining their death in anyway. Take it easy.

[sHaRp12]

I think the most valid points have been made by Hyacinth Girl and amanda. ...Raphien you seem to mis-interpret what everyone is writing. Including me. Please look at this thread un-biasedly.

[grace86]

Hmmm, there are a lot of different opinions here. You could almost say that the meaning of life is in the eye of the beholder :nod:

[caesar]

I must acknowledge, that Hyacinth has made a very valid and appealing point. I would, indeed, love to embrace her point of view, because it can radically alter my perception of life for the better; but only if, I can rationally convince myself that it makes more sense than my point of view. However, to do so, I might need some help, as I'm just a common chimp trying to be a human. And, if Hyacinth will kindly do me this favour, I will be obliged, probably, forever.

Let me clarify a point, first,


For some, if they are not around forever to see the effect of what they do, life and existence has no real purpose or meaning…

Actually, they aren’t worried about not being around forever to see the effect of what they do, as much as, they are worried about there not being anyone (humans, animals or aliens) to benefit from all that they have done and created. This was the keynote of the statement:


…everything we are doing is futile and meaningless, if one day, ultimately, it's all going to come to naught.

You acknowledge that outside of human perception there is no meaning to life …


My point is that outside of human perception, on a cosmic scale our lives are intrinsically meaningless.

...and you suggest that since humans have the need and the ability to create meaning for life, they must do so.


…(some humans) recognise the mind and spirit's need and ability to (create their own meaning of life).

Are you saying that since we are already here, it is better to fool ourselves by giving an illusory meaning to our lives because we have no other choice?

It seems, what you are saying is, “There is, in reality, no meaning to life; but one can alawys create a illusory meaning of life for oneself."

I would, indeed, be grateful, if those of you who think that there is meaning to life, would kindly tell me what, in your opinion, is the meaning of life.

[byquist]

sHaRp12,

Did not intend any vehemence and I assumed it was to spur a tad of debate, which is bueno. Your transparency is appreciated.

caesar,

If said viewpoint is "just a romantic way of giving meaning to life," thanks, I'll unashamedly and unapologetically stick with romance and life. (Is unapologetically spelled right?) Said path of reasoning can often require more courage, chutzpa and effort than accepting the standard model. If you want to define the "ultimate" as a characteristic of the birth-growth-maturity-decay-death syndrome, that's a perfect right. "Aye madam, tis' common;" you'll have plenty of folks to back you up, nodding their heads in acceptance.

On the other hand, "ultimate" is a vast word, and some keep the door very wide open as to its potentials, rather than lassoeing and afixing it to an issue of mortality. Some folks might say that to equate "ultimate" with "death" is to form a misnomer. As Hamlet says to Horatio, "there are more things in heaven and earth than are dreampt of in your philosophy," not particularly complimenting the structured field of philosophy, but opening to a wider and more daring view on reality. What these "things" are that Hamlet is referring to is anybody's guess and, dare I say, God only knows. Perhaps to Hamlet it's just a feeling that life is bigger than our finite and commonly accepted definitions of it; while we may not grasp the infinite very effectively, yet there is something reprehensible about accepting the common storyline.

[caesar]

I envy people in whom romance prevails over reason.

[Hyacinth Girl]

Are you saying that since we are already here, it is better to fool ourselves by giving an illusory meaning to our lives because we have no other choice?

It seems, what you are saying is, “There is, in reality, no meaning to life; but one can alawys create a illusory meaning of life for oneself."


Caesar,
I think that we have a differing view on what constitutes a "valid" meaning. You are correct in understanding that I find, in reference to the large scale, no intrinsic meaning. Intrinsic is key for me, because while it does not impose an absolute meaning with a fixed center of reference or a heirarchical scale of meaning, it does allow for the possibility of meaning - it is that possibility we reach for when we create meaning within our existence. In light of this, any meaning created by us is not illusory - there is nothing to negate our perception of meaning - in fact, meaning is in some respects limitless, as there is no intrinsic meaning with which our perception must fall into line with.

As far as having no choice, you do have a choice. You can chose not to accept the possibility of creating meaning, or "valid" meaning. I actually find it liberating in being allowed to create for myself rather than accept an imposed view of "the meaning of it all", although it is also a frightening proposition as well. :nod:

[caesar]

:nod: I must admit that notwithstanding my perception of life and reality, I do prefer creating my own meaning of life and I find consolation in this self-deception. However, I'm always conscious that I'm fooling myself. It's like lucid dreaming, where, the dreamer is aware that he is dreaming and he enjoys it because he is in control and can turn nightmares into beautiful dreams. In fact, there is a dream which recurs to me in which I'm falling from a great height, but I'm not scared, because I'm conscious that it’s only a dream and that nothing is going to happen to me.

:nod: I acknowledge your point that we differ in our view on what constitutes a ‘valid’ meaning.

:nod: You express your thoughts very articulately.

[Stanislaw]

well, life is rather meaningless, but I like what ye have to say.

but, how do we know what is infact a dream and what is reality, in dreams our senses, and reason can be decieved so to judge the reality, or meaning of anything, we have no tools nor guides, nor an acurate place to leap from, infact our existance is rather questionable, and I am quite happy in thinking we do not exist, well at least not in a definable term, so...generally humans are meanigless as no meaning can be proved, disproved or find a means to define the words that are used to make a sentace.

[Hyacinth Girl]

generally humans are meanigless as no meaning can be proved, disproved or find a means to define the words that are used to make a sentace.

"Things fall apart, the center cannot hold." eh? Works for me. :banana:

In fact, that is my point to some extent. There is no rule by which we can distinguish meaning. . . so to create it is perfectly valid. Of course, that would make the converse true as well - there is no way to distinguish "meaningless" either. . .

[Fat29]

I cannot speak for the rest. For me, life and death are different sides of the same coin. In life, my purpose is to make living more comfortable and better for those whose lives come after mine. As for death, I see it as a welcome friend who takes me away after I have run out of time to do what I needed to do while alive.

[squire nick]

In my more inspired moments I believe that the purpose is to create something greater than myself.

[caesar]

Is 'meanining of life' and 'purpose of life' one and the same?

[Withoutme]

Well, the Meaning of Life is rather Objective, whereas the Purpose of Life is more of Subjective!

Regards,
wM.

[Mary Sue]

"Life's a journey, not a destination."

Not my own, that. I read it somewhere. Or is it just a line from an Aerosmith song?

We're all traveling this same road together so let's try to get along and enjoy the ride, without having to make too many pit stops, and guys, try not to crowd each other, and once we reach our final destination, wherever that is....well, then there we'll be!
: )

[caesar]

Yeah, its is from Aerosmith's song 'Amazing' (love that song)

[PierreGringoire]

To say the meaning of life is objective and the purpose of life subjective is the catalyst that separates the two viewpoints: hyacinth's and sharp 12's. The seclusion of the two, is in fact like sawing a human's waist, and saying that the two halves can function without eachother, is confusing. But let's delve into this query nonetheless. You wrote (sharp12) that our emotions give our life a shrouded reality. Frist of all, that is observation of the puropse of life. So you are arguing both the purpose and meaning; and yet criticze when hycanith responded about the purpose. So let's take the MEANING first off. A synonym for the word.. meaning... can be... definition.... The definition of life is blunt. It might as well be defined by a monotonous computer program. We can sum up the meaning of life by saying, " it is the interval between life and death" (The American heritage,LIFE). But its that EMOTION which gives life to this discussion, as well as your incitation to post this discusssion. So it is safe to say to find the meaning of the PURPOSE of life is by far more importance than to find the meaning of the MEANING of life. And the PURPOSE of life is...well let's just say...as Socrates puts it.... "the most precious thing to discuss".... For the PURPOSE is like a color sprectrum, and if you lack but one color you still do not have the whole... and in fact you still are just as much lost in its meaning as if you had only one color figured out.

[siska]

hi i am a new member.
i refuse to be meaningless. i think the meaning of life is inevitable. you can say you dont have a meaning of life because you can woke up and streched your arms lazyly and felt sure tommorow you can see the sun rises.but if you know that tomorrow or the next day you will not taste the rain falling [not just in your mind but the fact you will] then you will refuse to be meaningless. its not a choice at all. one has meaning of life which is true only for oneself. as for death, it reminds me about my father's death. i witness his eyes closed, hot temperature body turned into cold. one can say one died and another human being is born.that's the cycle of life, which is true.However, in my experience my father died just like other human being and he feared death as well.but he left me one truth which i myself unable to deny despite his weaknesses and lack, that is, he loves me and all his life had shown me that all he wanted was that i to become a good woman.
i am not good in speaking out my mind.i guess i dont have the gift. i did once red a book written by victor frankl, in search of meaning, about his own experinces in a concentration nazi camp. He describes that that condition only shows how meaningless and hopeless life is but also in search of meaning is inevitable.
please read the book then you'll understand better than me.

[caesar]

Hello Siska, welcome to the forum.

I can empathise with you, Siska. I don't know how it feels to lose a loved one but I know how it is to grow up without a father. My father is alive, but I never loved him and alawys thought that he never loved me. I grew up hating my father and dreading that I might become like him. Only recently, I realised, after I started living independently, that my father was a monster only in my mind, created by my vengeful mother through clever manipulation since my childhood. But, she is, nevertheless, a very extraordinary human, with a very strong domineering will, industrious, has rigid morals and is virtually infallible. However, the realisation hit me like a bolt and I'm still grappling with it, not knowing what to do. My whole childhood was torn apart between my parents. All this time, I believed my mother and felt grateful that she had saved me from turning into a find like my father, now suddenly when I realize that she has deceived me, I'm devastated. She ruined my life - 'cause the scar on my mind dosen't seem to heal and it affects the way I think and act - to nurture her hatred. I wish, I could tell all this to my father. I wish to say, “I’m sorry, father’”.

I think this is a question to which we will never find the ultimate answer. And it mostly depends on one's disposition towards his/her own life.

However, like Votaire said,


I don’t agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.I hope you will enjoy being here.

[holograph]

Well as a fellow adolescent with an inclination towards idealism (since reality essentially does not exist either, I cannot call myself a realist :) ) I will agree with you--life has no meaning, and we have no purpose.

Religion, philosophy, science, etc. are all created to find meaning, and to console human beings. And these institutions are necessary to give meaning to humans, or they would all go mad.

Now, let me bring another point across--to you and to me, meaning and purpose do not exist. However, perhaps the meaning is there (somewhere) but we are not meant to know it, so we are not all that wise.

Though I believe that in essence life has no meaning, I do believe that since we are here, we serve some sort of purpose, regardless of whether we know what it is or not.

Hence, seeking meaning is impossible and foolish, since it does not exist, and I am not Don Quixote. And so I do not seek meaning, I trickle towards it on my own. Why chase the sun? ;)

[Skafte]

One could claim that the meaning of life is God, love or whatever. But if the meaning of life is love, for instance, then what is the meaning of love? Everything that one could claim to be the meaning of life must have a higher purpose to justify it. Let´s say the meaning of life is love, then what is the meaning of love? It might be to make us reproduce ourselves, but what is the meaning of that? And so on.. And with the knowlegde humans have at the moment we won´t be able to find the end of this, the ultimate purpose - the human mind (mine, anyway) is incapable of imagining an anwer to this, one will always be able to ask "Then what is the meaning or purpose of that?". So the ultimate purpose doesn´t exist! - so in regards to the meaning of life (and quite frankly also in regards to the question of the existence of a higher being), I guess I am an agnostic at best, but if you´ll ask me I´ll say I think the ultimate meaning of life is absurd and doesn´t exist.

But I haven´t experienced love yet, so perhaps this experience and some further pondering might bring me the needed insight.

[bhekti]

....But I haven´t experienced love yet, so perhaps this experience and some further pondering might bring me the needed insight.

Actually...........what is 'meaning' ?

[bhekti]

What do you mean by meaning of life when you say that it does not exist?
How am I supposed to understand what you mean by something that, you say, don’t even exist? Can we really talk or think about a non-existent? (or, to be more precise I think I have to put it this way: can we really talk or think about ............?)

In my opinion , we can’t. We wouldn’t have said that life has no meaning if it really had not. So I think statement that says life has no meaning has to be understood very carefully, that is to say, not literally, but with considerations of the situation of the discourse in which the statement emerges, such as considerations of the statement’s semantic resources.

"What is the problem? A universe that contains much that is obviously bad and apparently meaningless, but containing creatures like ourselves who know that it is bad and meaningless." - C.S. Lewis

Meaning is generated when exchange occurs. Whenever, wherever there’s exchange, in whatever form, then there must be meaning. Life is an exchange, a very complicated one. Then life generates meanings.

when one is not able to generate meanings out of life, one's life is not meaningless. One is only bored, and I do think that life is boring. (that's why I like reading literature)

"What we cannot speak about we must pass over in silence" - Wittgenstein

...but even silence is now boring.

[AllisonForbes]

Life is meaningless is the statement. You defined meaning I presume by showing us what it is not? One's cells combine to form a highly functional human being of intelligence and interacts with others and in the end dies. Therefore that is meaningless.

What separates us from animals is the ability not only to communicate with other humans, but to reason and to contemplate our existence within the realm of space and time. We contemplate because we seek to know. It is the seeking that defines the meaning. If we did not seek, we would merely be nothing more than a highly sophisticated animal.

Seeking meaning allows us to contemplate beauty, art, writings, truth, act courageously or justly. The fact that you are writing on a philosophical board about the existence of meaning, implies that you seek to prove or disprove it. Life has meaning or we would not seek to love, learn, create societies, better ourselves, or enjoy life. It would be a fruitless existence, one of selfish gratification over greater good.

[jon1jt]

To drive free! to love free! to dash reckless and dangerous!
To court destruction with taunts—with invitations!
To ascend—to leap to the heavens of the love indicated to me!
To rise thither with my inebriate Soul!
To be lost, if it must be so!
To feed the remainder of life with one hour of fulness and freedom!
With one brief hour of madness and joy. (Whitman)


We write on the world, the world does not write on us. (Nietzsche)

[Smooth Operator]

I understand what you mean by asking this question Sharp, but one should not question it because there is no other answer than life. I think the problem is that your looking at the big picture rather than the small one(your own individual life).

[iwnttoknowall]

Smooth, i think ur on the right track. Of course, some things only apply to a certain religion, like christianity. In the Bible doesnt it not say, "Be fruitful and multiply." that could be the meaning, but sharp, i take it as u belive in the principle of the ancient Greeks, u believe we are mere pawns in an insane game played by gods? Atheists probably just say, "heck, we are here, make the best of it, lets party, or something." there may not even be a meaning of life, as some1 said, but then u wonder, about your faith and the theory of evolution. some1 post back

[IamMissingaLink]

i agree with sharp. Life has no inherant meaning, atleast none that I can grasp. We're here for a period and then die. that's all i can be certain of.

[dionesa]

It is in my humble opinion that life truly has no meaning. We are organisms put on this planet to live our life and and do what pleases us. We are nothing but another species with superior intelligence and reason. That is why our life has so much structure and beurocracy. We live our life in guaranteed death. We reproduce and the next generation goes through this life cycle. Repeated hundreds of times all while the process of Evolution takes place. Therefore our life truly has no meaning. In a broader sense nothing really has any meaning whatsoever. But our emotions, our emotions is what blinds us into this anomaly which very few ever realize that we are meaningless. On this earth to do only what pleases us.

I realize that this idea has brought many poets to their death by suicide.

Sincerely, A thoughtful adolescent and realist.

Well,,this is orobaby your life but i think that is true.This life well is a cicle,,that evryone that comes after us is doing the same,well,sincerly,,dionesa,,macedonia

[dionesa]

If there is anybody who is satssfied from this life completly that he lies himself:),,there is not perfec life but also we should live it

[hitchhiker]

Live. That is the meaning of life. Pull from life everything there is to draw and that is living it to the meaning.

[bluevictim]

Wow. So much discussion. I thought the answer was 42.

[maggie yang]

Live. That is the meaning of life. Pull from life everything there is to draw and that is living it to the meaning.

yeah...i agree with you ...to live is to have the meaning of life..
to live as a new baby;)

[trismegistus]

We're here for a period and then die. that's all i can be certain of.
Pfft! You're certain when you're hungry. You're certain when you're tired. You're certain when you're horny. I can go on all day.

Feeding the machine is the meaning of life. If you don't value feeding the machine, well there are many tall buildings from which to leap.

[jon1jt]

It is in my humble opinion that life truly has no meaning. We are organisms put on this planet to live our life and and do what pleases us. We are nothing but another species with superior intelligence and reason. That is why our life has so much structure and beurocracy. We live our life in guaranteed death. We reproduce and the next generation goes through this life cycle. Repeated hundreds of times all while the process of Evolution takes place. Therefore our life truly has no meaning. In a broader sense nothing really has any meaning whatsoever. But our emotions, our emotions is what blinds us into this anomaly which very few ever realize that we are meaningless. On this earth to do only what pleases us.

I realize that this idea has brought many poets to their death by suicide.

Sincerely, A thoughtful adolescent and realist.

i'm not so sure people only do what pleases them. actually i think just the opposite, which is why society is obsessed with value-laden rules self-imposed. in the process institutions are erected and gods are worshipped in all varieties: the god of sports; the god of clean air; the god of self-advancement; the god of family; and oh, can't forget jesus and allah, yahweh and god herself, and let us not to forget the one and the many. they're all self-preserving mechanisms which facilitate the pursuit of a meaningful life. to state categorically that human life is meaningless is like lightning that stops itself while flashing to ask why it's flashing. it just flashes. human beings are imbued with a self-reflective capacity that allows for judgment toward things and itself, thereby acting as spectator and performer simultaneously. and so distinguishes itself from the purely impulsive. whether this is a curse or blessing, you decide.

just think about this: you derived meaning in the very meaningless proposition you set forth for this thread, or else you would have figured there's no point and not bothered. :lol:

[alhara]

I find there is meaning in that which is not explained. To find real meaning religion is the easiest way, but think about it in what is natural and in the most reduced and primitive standards. What we do, what we do without thinking; breathing, blinking ECT, are necessary things. Breathing is sweet, breath is good. Life, livening is good. This is true because we from birth fear death. Babies scream when they need feeding because without food they will die and it hurts to be hungry, it hurts to bleed. Living is a healthy and natural thing. It is also natural to seek meaning in life, seeking meaning is natural and is good. Society does motivate us but man creates society because it pleases him/her to have it. I personally believe the meaning of life is to be perfect and to find perfect happiness, but that it is impossible, so we each try to get as close as we can. we need to do this because life is movement life is change. Love the 42 comment. It is part of that is true the meaning of life is to pine over the meaning of life and to know life’s meaning is to nullify life, to rob life of meaning, or the world will explode, what ever floats your boat. The thing is, the bad thing to do is to stop searching. We know we can’t be perfect people, they tell us from kindergarten on up that no one is perfect, but if you try all the same to be perfect and so doing are (without any help from the army) be all you can be. The same rules apply to the meaning of life, you search your whole life for the meaning of life and don’t find it but so doing have the most meaningful life you can. The meaning of life is to seek truth to answer the unexplained knowing full well there will always be that last thing you don´t understand until the day you die. I feel like I am repeating my self, the point the real point is that I feel bad when I think there is no meaing to life in the same way I feel bad if I eat something I shouldn´t so to not bealieve there is meaning in life is unatural, what is natural feels good and what is not natural feels bad. Not believe in a meaning to life feels bad and is thus unatrual and not right.
I also have question, If life is meaningless because of what science tells us, that crap about carbon based organism, reproduction and death, if we are children of evolution and all the things in our bodies are products of evolution, then WHY do we have emotions at all? If all we have to do is reproduce and evolve and emotion is simply an obstacle than why hasn’t it been evolved out? Why do we cry when we are sad? What purpose does that serve? Maybe we just haven’t reached point yet, if so than why is there not more emotion in say the writing of Homer that the writing of Mary Shelly or other writers. Human emotion is the same through out history it will not be evolved out because emotion is out side evolution, but emotion is a strong obstacle to evolution we all must agree emotion makes us do very stupid things that endanger our species (War, or chastity). Yet it still exist, that signifies that emotion is outside of evolution and thus there is more to life than Darwin, sure he’s great and he explains a lot of things but he doesn’t explain everything because you can’t. I think your just being lazy like those people who decide to worship to fill the emptiness in their lives science is as much a religion as Christianity or Judaism, religion has gods, and science has Proof and Darwinism, and those too tired of thinking to care, attribute everything to evolution in the same way Christian say “it is the will of god” or to quote Douglas Adams “and it’s Bob’s will so it must be perfectly normal” don’t get lazy, think, philosophize, and doubt, above all doubt, we must Doubt everything to find our own truth. Now I have to stop or i´ll take up the whole page.

I don´t think this will change your mind, its sad thought because seeking lifes meaning is part of what makes our lives passionate and beatiful, but in the end i respect your opinion and have gone through the life is meaningless science has jaded me stage and you have to get out of that all on your own nothing I say will help.

[godhelpme2]

Well, personallly, I think all of us may feel life's meaninglessness in a certain period of time. But it is rather temporary.
We cannot be too ambitious to ask every moment of life is full of energy and meaning. Until one day you think you have the courage finally to commit suicide, will you send out that exclamation,"Life is meaningless."
Hope everyone can cherish our precious life!!!

[IamMissingaLink]

Pfft! You're certain when you're hungry. You're certain when you're tired. You're certain when you're horny. I can go on all day.

Feeding the machine is the meaning of life. If you don't value feeding the machine, well there are many tall buildings from which to leap.nice :).
I was going through somthign if a crises when i wrote that! I've always been more of a phenomenologist to be honest.
anyway...seeing life as lacking inherant meaning mean you don't embrace expereinces of life and that death is preferable.

[Therapy?]

nice :).
anyway...seeing life as lacking inherant meaning mean you don't embrace expereinces of life and that death is preferable.

The threadstarter (or post you replied to) were not using the word 'meaning' is the same way as you have; your using it in the context of the 'small picture' i.e. your individual life e.g. having friends, family, going out etc...In that sense, we all have 'meaning'.
The others imply that humans are here only as another species created from evolution and not for any higher 'reason'. In this sense, we all have no 'meaning' in the end.

Good summary:


I think the problem is that your looking at the big picture rather than the small one(your own individual life).

-------------

This really is just an atheist 'opinion' though, and highly debatable.

[IamMissingaLink]

The threadstarter (or post you replied to) were not using the word 'meaning' is the same way as you have; your using it in the context of the 'small picture' i.e. your individual life e.g. having friends, family, going out etc...In that sense, we all have 'meaning'.
The others imply that humans are here only as another species created from evolution and not for any higher 'reason'. In this sense, we all have no 'meaning' in the end.

Good summary:


-------------

This really is just an atheist 'opinion' though, and highly debatable.

im not looking at the small picture...what are u talking about..

[Darl]

Small picture/Big picture is irrelevant; meaning in any facet of your life (especially its meaning) is entirely in your interpretation. Should you choose to see mortality--the guarantee of death--as making your short life innefectual and meaningless, then guess what, you'll make yourself into an embittered self-fulfilling prophecy...not always, some thrive on that cynicism. Whatever your view, the point should be self-empowerment in your worldview. If you depress yourself, shy away from conflict etc., you're already dead in many ways.

So, if the fact that the lineage and cyclic death and rebirth of humanity, and every other organism on this planet, is validation that our life is meaningless, shucks-howdy hoss! The only thing you have definite control over is yourself--even that is f@#!&d with by the will of others. If you can take every experience or relationship and acknowledge your finite life, relative lack of consequence etc., you might be more aggressive in getting what you want now, not procrastinating. We're animals, we reside at the top of the food-chain, making our peers our only predators...in war, hunger, the workplace or the family, you can be manipulated or assert yourself and maintain some autonomy.
Besides, with the right ambition, look at all the things the great dictators of the last three centuries have accomplished! Encouraging , right?

[Therapy?]

im not looking at the small picture...what are u talking about..

I'm talking about ambiguity, I suppose I've made a very stipulative definition of small/big picture.


Small picture/Big picture is irrelevant; meaning in any facet of your life (especially its meaning) is entirely in your interpretation. Should you choose to see mortality--the guarantee of death--as making your short life innefectual and meaningless, then guess what, you'll make yourself into an embittered self-fulfilling prophecy...not always, some thrive on that cynicism. Whatever your view, the point should be self-empowerment in your worldview. If you depress yourself, shy away from conflict etc., you're already dead in many ways.

So, if the fact that the lineage and cyclic death and rebirth of humanity, and every other organism on this planet, is validation that our life is meaningless, shucks-howdy hoss! The only thing you have definite control over is yourself--even that is f@#!&d with by the will of others. If you can take every experience or relationship and acknowledge your finite life, relative lack of consequence etc., you might be more aggressive in getting what you want now, not procrastinating. We're animals, we reside at the top of the food-chain, making our peers our only predators...in war, hunger, the workplace or the family, you can be manipulated or assert yourself and maintain some autonomy.
Besides, with the right ambition, look at all the things the great dictators of the last three centuries have accomplished! Encouraging , right?

I agree that the fact that one believes he will die does not take 'meaning', in the sense you have described, out of his life i.e. is therefore irrelevant. I don't get how small picture/big picture is irrelevant to this discussion though.

[dramasnot6]

I think the meaning of life differs with each individual life. Context and opinion change so much between individuals that we each make unique meanings out of everything. Life is what we make of it, doesnt the same apply to the meaning of life? Even if your meaning is lack of meaning, it is still yours and is no more signifigant then any other opinion. Maybe every meaning we have made of every experience, every thought and revelation that has given us the pleasure of understanding a little more of our life and purpose, is what shapes an overall meaning. Get what i mean?;) :p

[Uhiree]

You have a right to think about what you want, and outsiders don't have the rights to tell you what you think. At the end it's all up to you, but I felt that even if life has no meaning to you yourself, to others around you , like your parents and relatives and friends and classmates, you being in existence affect them in one way or another. In other words, your life has meaning to them, even when it has none to you

[Christian]

If you never find it within life, you will find it within death.

[miss tenderness]

If life doesn't have a meaning for me,I would have jumped from the window!

[alter-native]

I didnt get here by chance, there must be a reason, il look for one, one thing i can say is, "meaning or no meaning" im going to make my life larger than it already is. "Its not that life's too short, you've been dead for too long".

[DragonScale101]

Meaing of life, eh? Complex. I haven't read this entire thread or all of your posts yet (that would take hours and it's already like one a.m.) but I can establish my own opinions. I'm sorry if I sound pessimistic saying this, but ultimately I believe that life as no meaning. Saying that we are here to reproduce or make life better for those who come after us sounds to me like A) an excuse or B) resorting to animal instincts. Think about this; with the advances in science made these days, everybody knows that the world will eventually come to an end; then what'll it all be for? We work hard to make life easier for those people who could prosper from it, but who can prosper after the world has been destroyed? I apologize for my depressing views, but this is how I view the world. Completely futile.

[Sir Dovesinn]

I was reading your posts.
I also search the meaning of life. Because I do believe that people have different talents (and can have different purposes in life) but I also believe that there is an absolute meaning attached to human existence as such.
At some moments it does not even bother me that I don't know the meaning of life, this mystery is a dear friend of mine. (we all read literature, or not?) And I would not want to ruin this world of wonders, at least as long as I can wonder it.
But I also get frustrated that I am so helplessly ignorant regarding this mystery of human existence.

What I also wanted to say: we can debate an eternity and we shall not find the meaning of existence. The way out is not conducted by reason, the real meaning can only be outside reason, in faith, in intuition, in our heart… anywhere, but not in the head.

The thing is: it is so enjoyable to reason and discuss about meaning, it makes us feel meaningful, so, it can not be meaningless.

[Sunflower]

Life itself has no meaning at all~~
Your mission of life is to creat the meaning of your own~~

[higley]

Truly, I think that each man finds his the meaning of life as he discovers his purpose to fulfill. I equate meaning, purpose, potential, hope and happiness; I group them together and consider them intimately linked.

Purpose gives meaning, that in your place in the world you have a job to perform, a determination that keeps you going. Potential fulfills purpose, because we are gifted with infinite, miraculous abilities, and when we pursue them, push them, then we achieve a sense of satisfaction--and that gives us a hope, a faith, belief in ourselves and others because we recognize the potential in others that we see in ourselves. Joy is derived from the hope we have.

Whoa, so just rambled there. Hope you can work that out. ;)

To believe life is meaningless is the same as believing you have no purpose. Sometimes this sentiment is fostered by the notion that you have to have some grand duty to fulfill or else you are meaningless. But this is not true. Even the little things give meaning and value, especially those little things. A humble role is as grand as a large one, if you are willing to be content with it. Meaning is also not to be confused with destiny. I would love to be a children's book writer, but I don't consider that my purpose in this world. Simply, I consider my own, personal meaning to be God, and therefore He is my purpose and what I pursue, and my potential will ultimately be used to follow Him, and that makes me happy.

[Shadowsarin]

To jump into the deep end of this topic (I.e. I haven't read more than the first and fifth pages)...

I, personally think that overall, life has utterly no grand or greater meaning. I just think there are too many flaws in every single theory I have heard for any of them to float in my book. We are just a few messy lumps of organic tissue floating round and round in the void on a lump of rock. You are born, you live a bit, you die. Perhaps if there is any meaning at all, it is meerly to avoid death for as long as possible. Anything above this is purely something invented to fill the void of uncertainty.

Yee gods thats a depressing thought...

[dramasnot6]

Not neccesarily deppresing Shadow. In a way, a compliment to mankind's imagination and mental ability. If "organic tissue lying around" is really all there is to it, look at the masses of complex and diverse thoughts and creations around the meaning of life. Pretty impressive void fillers if you ask me. Perhaps it was to be some sort of sick competition to which organic lump came up with the best idea? :lol: Just kidding, but all our thinking makes it worth it doesnt it? Even if life meaning is mysterious, all the passion and creation around it develops something even more magnificent and rewarding, life worth. Whether anything means anything, or everything means nothing, we still live and breath and think. I myself can live with that for a while :D

[jon1jt]

"To live free, to love free, to court destruction with taunts; to feed the remainder of life with one moment of madness and fullness, one brief hour of madness and joy." :)

[Madhuri]

If life doesn't have a meaning for me,I would have jumped from the window!

Make sure the window is on the ground floor Miss T. We dont want to lose you. ;) :D

[jgx]

I do not know if this will be a balm or sollace for those who feel their life has no meaning. But, technically, all life has meaning, it is simply the type of meaning that is the issue. Everybody's life means something...that is every single person has had an impact on others, has taken actions, has had feelings and in looking at all of those elements certainly someone could develop the meaning of ones life. The fear is that the sum total meaning would not be particularly welcome news.

Does my life have significance? Does my life have worth? Does my life matter? Or even more clearly articulated....has my life made the world, even the small world I have touched, better? Has it made it worse? Or has it had no impact whatsoever?

I think the last possiblity is very doubtful although not widely doubted.

As far as has it left the world better or worse?

Ahh...it is the season of It's A Wonderful Life in which the angel reminds Gregory Peck...that yes you have made a positive difference in ways no mortal would ever be able to understand.

[Orionsbelt]

The buddist monk was once quoted as saying "What is the meaning of a flower?"

There once was a man named Viktor Emil Frankl.

[Yelena]

Everyone's life has a meaning. It seems to me that we teach each other so many little things, that even that can be considered a meaning of life. From a religious perspective, a child is born with her/his own agenda( a kid is ment to make a difference), the fulfillment of which totally depends on his/her choice.
(..sorry if it sounds confusing...:blush: )

[blazeofglory]

Today we are torn between two different streams of thought: One - God exists and each and every natural phenomenon is stirred by God alone. It is God that sets wind in motion. It is God alone that makes pant Grow. It is God alone that gives colors to flowers. Planets orbiting the sun, the way constellatins and galxies accomodaing stars and planets following a specific path with no deviations has to do with the fact that there is supreme law, and it is God who is the maker of the law. The law that shaped the world is framed by God. And see if panets take the reverse course, Wind stops blowing. All these facts approve of the existance of God. Science never can answer the final question. There will be a chain of questions science has to answer after one afte another if it keeps answering qestions.

This is one side of the issue, and the other side is totally an antagonistic or agnostic question. There have been hundreds of questions and arguments against the existence of God. The whole tradition of scientific thought disapprove of this fact. Theories of physics commencing with the findings of Galileo and the latest one now Stephen Howking, all this whole school of scientific thought that had seethed with the the skeptical view of the existence of God.

At home we have been taugt in our ealry age of innicence that is God what kind enough to offer this beutiful world, We must be thankful to him. And the rest of such things stuffed our fertile mind.

Now you can not totally erase this from your mind set this is strongly set there and cemented.

At school you have learned the opposite idea that God made this world is proved wrong by scientists.

Tell me how can I get me out of these two boxes of thought and have a fair idea clean of all these borrowed ideas. I have more and more such questions that will follow. Do you have anything to cooment ?

[hyperborean]

Life has no meaning. We give it meaning.

I make this comment in every "meaning of life" thread made on this forum.

[Pelican King]

Life has no meaning. We give it meaning.

I make this comment in every "meaning of life" thread made on this forum.

I second that wholeheartedly. Just about every philosophical book I've read has lead me to the same conclusion.

This is 'the other side', as you put it. Either Individuals are given meaning by an all powerful entity or they are to make meaning for themselves. "Dionysus or the Crucified" as Nietzsche said.

As for science being in opposition to the existence of God, it's only true if you take the disproving of scripture to mean that a God is unlikely to exist, science doesn't directly disprove the existence of a God. This is the division of naturalism, metaphysical naturalism is the case where supernaturalism (i.e. God) is believed to be unable to exist. Methodological naturalism is the second position, which is where we must assume there is no supernatural explanations to conduct science, although this position is agnostic and is open to the possibility that supernatural things may exist, but we can never really know of them.

[Midas]

God, like Love, has different meanings to various people. To some, they are mere shades of meaning, but to others they can be quite distinct. I believe, therefore, it is necessary to qualify such controversial subjects before entering into discussion, or debate.

I am, for one, always interested in others attempts at defining these concepts, particularly 'God' which is one that can be neither empirically proved, nor disproved.

Words have no meaning in themselves unless they create a picture in the mind. Communication is the ability to create mental pictures in the mind of another. I would be interested to know what mental picture the word 'God' creates in yours (or anyone's).

This is in genuine interest, and in no way connected to cynicism

[billyjack]

how's about this: words have meaning, life doesnt. life is meaning

[A MM]

how's about this: words have meaning, life doesnt. life is meaning

Unless, of course, we treat "life" also as a word which has many meanings, depending on what adjective is placed before the word. E.g. sex life, plant life, thought life, and so on.

"life is meaning" is even more profound. Words which have no meaning may be be considered to be life-less. However, some words and sounds which have no meaning to A may have much meaning to X.

[Redzeppelin]

At school you have learned the opposite idea that God made this world is proved wrong by scientists.

Science has "proven" nothing of the sort. Science has found enough puzzle pieces to convince itself that God is not necessary to explain the universe - but that only means science thinks itself sufficient to explain the universe.


Life has no meaning. We give it meaning.

Flip on the evening news and say this statement with a straight face.



how's about this: words have meaning, life doesnt. life is meaning

Even more suspect: language can be twisted and manipulated due to its incredible elasticity - language conveys ideas, but it is not the idea itself.

[Pelican King]

Flip on the evening news and say this statement with a straight face.
A straight face would get in the way of my lifestyle of laughter.

The news confirms my belief that this world is absurd and meaningless. And the only way to live is to rise above what this world is. There is nothing true or meaningful in any tragedy or triumph, it must be made meaningful by the individual. To give my position a more traditional foundation "existence precedes essence".

[motherhubbard]

For me the idea that something that came somewhere that no one can explain blew up and created a solar system. In this system a planet just happened to be in just the right spot, not half a mile left or right, to sustain life. Then by chance al of the elements worked together to spawn life and from that single cell organism came all life on the planet, animal and vegetation. When I see the world I see a wonderful design. In my mind that could only be done by God. Therefore, for me, the meaning of life can be summed up in Ecclesiastes 12:13 “Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole of man” some versions say “for this is the whole duty of man”

[Midas]

Many more ramblings about God yet no one has taken up my request to tell me how they vizualise this Creator of all things.

Not that this surprises me. All it indicates is there has been little understanding gone into the thought about the concept.

So many let the word 'God' roll off the tongue and ascribe so much to (His/Her/It's) doings but struggle with an explanation of what His/Her/ It, is.

But I will wager, if they were honest, it will be some human form stomping around way up above the clouds with an all seeing eye.

Come on, be honest - am I right?

I know that no one knows for sure, but there must be a reasonable, possible,
mature, explanation that would suffice until that day of judgement when all will be revealed.

And if there is nothing, it won't matter, we will never know that the life we are living now is all we have, and not as some believe, and live it, like it is some practice run.

[weepingforloman]

God cannot be visualized, b/c He is invisible.

[Midas]

God cannot be visualized, b/c He is invisible.

In this, there is possibly an element of truth.

Assuming one accepts that there is a 'God' - and to those who believe, we must accept this can mean different things to different people, then I would say that you are partly correct. By that, I mean if such existence meets the expectations of a reasonably developed, analytical, and reasoning, mind.

However, I contend that it is an impossibility for the mind not to apply some picture/image to any noun, and that includes pronouns, the moment that one hears the word. Try it, but be honest with yourself in your findings.

The picture will be different to different people. For instance, if I say 'there is a dog outside the room', to a roomful of people, immediately a picture would leap into the mind of each one. However, there would be a wide difference of size, colour, and breed in many variations if we were able to see all those visualisations.

It would be the same if I said that 'God is watching over us' (or any sentence containing the word God). I would guarantee that to the vast majority, no matter how well educated, or intelligent, and even to non believers, they would 'see' some personification of a supreme being.

Try to imagine the invisible man without seeing some person veiled by some, representative, 'invisible mist'. Try to imagine electricity without first seeing, if only for a second, some zigzaging flash line, or sparks (used in pictorial representations).

There has to be some visual effect taking place in the mind otherwise the word has no complete meaning. It would be like saying 'and' or 'but', we would be waiting for a 'picture', a noun, to complete the sense.

Many do accept God as a form of invisible 'universal mind' or energy that is constant, and everywhere. I am not going into this deeply as that is something to be discussed in another category of thread.

I raise it here for one purpose; that is to make aware the importance of words in both reading, writing, and speaking. They either create a picture, or leave us hanging in the air waiting for one.

The English language has more words than any other. This is why it has evolved as the unsurpassed language of great literature. By that I do not mean that other languages have not had, or have, great writers.

When we write, we paint a picture with words, therefore let us choose our 'colours' carefully like a great artist, and never forget 'connotation' - some people are colour blind and may see the meaning different to that which we intend.

When we read, observe the words chosen by the writer when there may have been, especially in English, a number of other words the writer could have used. That writer probably deliberated some time over the final choice, particularly when editing.

Once again, writing is painting a picture with words, and when we read we are really appreciating, or trying to, a mind picture painted by the writer, discerned by us, as with the writer, and defined by Wordsworth as that 'inward eye'.



I add this footnote:

To any who are about to question what this has this to do with 'the meaning of life', and I am sure it has leapt to the minds of the few highly critical readers, who are always ready to challenge, I contend it has every relevance.

First it has to do with 'meaning' and how can we discuss the meaning of anything without bringing in the question of 'meaning'.


"......Then you should say what you mean, the March Hare went on.
"I do, " Alice hastily replied; "at least I mean what I say, that's the same thing, you know."
"Not the same thing a bit!" said the Hatter. "Why, you might just as well say that "I see what I eat" is the same thing as "I eat what I see!........."
(Alice in Wonderland.)


Then there is the understanding of the complexity of such a subject. First we have meaning itself, then we have 'Life'. This can bring in so many avenues to go down which makes it very difficult to contain it within everyone's idea of what such a thread should be composed.

And while 'God' is held by some as relating to 'religion' and is too controversial to be discussed except in that context, then, I say, how can we discuss life without questioning its creation. Also, to many, the worship, and serving of, God, or G-d, or some 'Supreme Being,' is their only meaning of life.

[atiguhya padma]

It seems to me that anyone starting a thread entitled 'In Inquest of the meaning of life' with the analysis that the world of thought is split into believers and non-believers, has made a radical error from the very start.

The inquiry should really be does life have meaning? Not what is the meaning of life (this may sound pedantic, but the latter pre-supposes that life has meaning).

What do we mean when we say life has meaning? Are we talking about purpose?

[atiguhya padma]

God cannot be visualized, b/c He is invisible.


He seems to be inaudible too. In fact, I can't think of one sense that can irrefutably detect him. Makes you think doesn't it?

Or not as the case may be.

[Bii]

Tell me how can I get me out of these two boxes of thought and have a fair idea clean of all these borrowed ideas. I have more and more such questions that will follow. Do you have anything to cooment ?

Blaze - this is something you need to work out for yourself. You're correct in identifying that the two schools of thought are not complimentary, but there are many scientists who believe in God, and many religious people who believe in science. The key point here is, whichever way you want to go, it is belief, and beliefs are things which can only exist in the absence of proof. Many people don't accept that science is a belief system, yet people defend it in the same way as religious people defend their religion. People believe that science holds the answers, the key to the meaning of life, and in this respect it becomes a belief system, no different to religion. From my way of thinking, neither science nor religion actually hold the answers, but as a belief system either will support you, and guide your actions in life. If it's meaning you're searching for, you may have to accept that it's an answer you will never find, or perhaps you will. Perhaps the search for answers is meaning in itself?

Beliefs are personal, and no one should be attacked for their beliefs, except in those cases where beliefs are injurious to others. I dislike the way that, even in this forum, people casually insult others based on their beliefs, attack them and say that they are wrong. When we're talking about belief, how can anyone say that their beliefs are right, and someone else's wrong? At best all that can be said is that they are different.

If you believe both in God and in science, then you need to find a way to reconcile these two opposing beliefs in your own mind, in a way you are comfortable with. Perhaps the way to approach this is to consider them as approaching different subject matters - science seeks to understand the mechanics, religion seeks to provide meaning. I'm not saying this is right or wrong, just a suggestion to your problem.

[weepingforloman]

He seems to be inaudible too. In fact, I can't think of one sense that can irrefutably detect him. Makes you think doesn't it?

Or not as the case may be.

Considering that God is entirely spirit, I would find it hard to believe that someone had seen/heard/touched/smelled/tasted Him. Especially that last one.


In this, there is possibly an element of truth.

Assuming one accepts that there is a 'God' - and to those who believe, we must accept this can mean different things to different people, then I would say that you are partly correct. By that, I mean if such existence meets the expectations of a reasonably developed, analytical, and reasoning, mind.

However, I contend that it is an impossibility for the mind not to apply some picture/image to any noun, and that includes pronouns, the moment that one hears the word. Try it, but be honest with yourself in your findings.


Bolding mine, obviously. This is true, but we are warned not to do it, so that we do not make the image we manufacture the object of our worship. There is a famous prayer, I don't currently remember who wrote it, it may even be simply a traditional prayer, that ends with "Not to what I imagine Thee to be, but to what Thou knowest Thyself to be."

It is pointless to try to picture God... How can you picture the Source of all Being?

[bookworm57]

[QUOTE=atiguhya padma;402273]He seems to be inaudible too. In fact, I can't think of one sense that can irrefutably detect him. Makes you think doesn't it?


So, With respect, because none of your senses can irrefutably detect God, It must be the same for everyone ?

[Mr. Dr. Ralph]

God is often pictured as an old, white man with a beard and living on a cloud, it is quite moronic. People anthropomorphize religious figures all the time, even their lord and savior Jesus Christ...

http://static.flickr.com/100/261795818_b1696e5400.jpg
http://www.portraitofjesus.com/store/catalog/jesus_framed.jpg

Blue-eyed Jesus, what a joke.

Here's another good one, taken from a Christian website. Note that this is being serious. (http://biblia.com/christianity2/8-god.htm)

http://biblia.com/christianity2/god-creator29g.jpg

Juxtapose this with Poseidon of Ancient Greece...

http://www.chaztruog.com/sitebuilder/images/Poseidon-358x472.jpg

Funny how "pagan idolatry" is recycled...

But seriously, Ludwig Wittgenstein wrote prolific philosophy on the subject of language and philosophy. A precursor to his Tractatus was a group of people that called themselves the Vienna Circle, a group of scientists and mathematicians that met with each other to discuss philosophical matters. They agreed that words that are devoid of meaning, or rather, not derived from experience are to be disregarded. Of course, this has a profound impact on philosophy, as they rejected metaphysics and other kinds of wild speculation that hinged on deceptive syntax and diction. This movement is known as logical positivism. Though it isn't around now, it was a very powerful idea and laid groundwork for modern philosophy and logical analysis.

In Wittgenstein's Tractatus, he explains that what humans see is a state of affairs, and that thought is a projection of this state of affairs but derived from sense. It was his idea that thoughts are not totally wrong because they are propositions of things that are known through sense. He writes some analytical stuff and concludes famously "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent." Tractatus is regarded as one of the best works of 20th century philosophy.

{edit}

[Midas]

".....Bolding mine, obviously. This is true, but we are warned not to do it, so that we do not make the image we manufacture the object of our worship. There is a famous prayer, I don't currently remember who wrote it, it may even be simply a traditional prayer, that ends with "Not to what I imagine Thee to be, but to what Thou knowest Thyself to be."......................."



It is pointless to try to picture God... How can you picture the Source of all Being?__________________


Not quite sure what 'Bolding mine' means, or refers to.

It has nothing to do with a concious act. For example, if I said to you, or anyone, try not to think of a dog, or ship, or car, it would be impossible for you not to think of whichever.

In attempting not to think of something, we think of it more,

It is impossible for us not to put a picture, if only for a moment, to any noun
we hear said to us. It is out of our hands. It is an automatic response.

When we are reading we are constantly putting pictures in our mind conveyed by the writer. If the writer gives insufficient description, then we apply our own.

If you (anyone) try it yourself, as I suggested, and you are honest with yourself, you will understand without anyone explaining.

It is the same for me, knowing this does not make anyone an exception.

I understand your argument that it is believed by some that we are not supposed to envision the Deity. I believe that is so in the Christian belief.

However, saying is one thing, doing another. It is an automatic response to put a picture to a noun. When we try not to, it is even more difficult - the picture stays longer. In fact, as long as we try not to.

[weepingforloman]

God is often pictured as an old, white man with a beard and living on a cloud, it is quite moronic. People anthropomorphize religious figures all the time, even their lord and savior Jesus Christ...

http://static.flickr.com/100/261795818_b1696e5400.jpg
http://www.portraitofjesus.com/store/catalog/jesus_framed.jpg

Blue-eyed Jesus, what a joke.

Here's another good one, taken from a Christian website. Note that this is being serious. (http://biblia.com/christianity2/8-god.htm)

http://biblia.com/christianity2/god-creator29g.jpg

Juxtapose this with Poseidon of Ancient Greece...

http://www.chaztruog.com/sitebuilder/images/Poseidon-358x472.jpg

Funny how "pagan idolatry" is recycled...

But seriously, Ludwig Wittgenstein wrote prolific philosophy on the subject of language and philosophy. A precursor to his Tractatus was a group of people that called themselves the Vienna Circle, a group of scientists and mathematicians that met with each other to discuss philosophical matters. They agreed that words that are devoid of meaning, or rather, not derived from experience are to be disregarded. Of course, this has a profound impact on philosophy, as they rejected metaphysics and other kinds of wild speculation that hinged on deceptive syntax and diction. This movement is known as logical positivism. Though it isn't around now, it was a very powerful idea and laid groundwork for modern philosophy and logical analysis.

In Wittgenstein's Tractatus, he explains that what humans see is a state of affairs, and that thought is a projection of this state of affairs but derived from sense. It was his idea that thoughts are not totally wrong because they are propositions of things that are known through sense. He writes some analytical stuff and concludes famously "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent." Tractatus is regarded as one of the best works of 20th century philosophy.

{edit}

I agree. More than a bit moronic. Jesus was Palestinian. God does not have a body. These are not the things I swear by. These are simply instances of misplaced zeal.





__________________


Not quite sure what 'Bolding mine' means, or refers to.

It has nothing to do with a concious act. For example, if I said to you, or anyone, try not to think of a dog, or ship, or car, it would be impossible for you not to think of whichever.

In attempting not to think of something, we think of it more,

It is impossible for us not to put a picture, if only for a moment, to any noun
we hear said to us. It is out of our hands. It is an automatic response.

When we are reading we are constantly putting pictures in our mind conveyed by the writer. If the writer gives insufficient description, then we apply our own.

If you (anyone) try it yourself, as I suggested, and you are honest with yourself, you will understand without anyone explaining.

It is the same for me, knowing this does not make anyone an exception.

I understand your argument that it is believed by some that we are not supposed to envision the Deity. I believe that is so in the Christian belief.

However, saying is one thing, doing another. It is an automatic response to put a picture to a noun. When we try not to, it is even more difficult - the picture stays longer. In fact, as long as we try not to.

My only point is that it would be pointless to present my mental image of God to you, because I know it is utterly incorrect. In fact, it resembles, to an extent, a combination of the Pringles logo, the Pepsi logo, and a sweeping cape combined. Stupid, I know, which is why I prefer not to mention it. The "bolding mine" refers to the fact that I bolded your statement in the quote.

[NikolaiI]

My only point is that it would be pointless to present my mental image of God to you, because I know it is utterly incorrect. In fact, it resembles, to an extent, a combination of the Pringles logo, the Pepsi logo, and a sweeping cape combined. Stupid, I know, which is why I prefer not to mention it. The "bolding mine" refers to the fact that I bolded your statement in the quote.

Midas' post is beautiful, and he is entirely right about paint a picture with words. That's how good writers think, I think. They look at sentence structure, length, flow, paragraphs, etc., all of it, and have a knack for seeing and judging beautiful paragraphs, etc., probably, because they're easy to read.

Anyway, you give us a picture with your words, and you express your idea of God through any medium you want - poetry, a short story, art, a novel, philosophy, whatever, and that's how you share it. Perhaps you view God as invisible. Then that's the image of him. Perhaps you associate him with stain-glass windows in Church, then it's probably mostly colours, and that's beautiful too.

I don't think it's a bad idea to talk of God, or think about him in images. In my mind, God should be equal to blessedness, and isn't that the whole idea, is happiness and blessedness? God, prayer? Etc., etc.

Anyway for me that's what God is. And that's why I see Jesus as equal to the Buddha, because Jesus=blessedness, the Buddha=blessedness, Jesus=the Buddha=God=prayer, etc. Nature, too.

Anyway, you present some idea of God with every word, and every action, etc., as well as yourself, you project it. Thoughts, too, but no one can see those.

[weepingforloman]

The difference between you and I is that I am exclusive, and you are not. Because I am exclusively Christian, I take it as law when I am commanded not to make images. I take it seriously when Christ declares that He is the only way to God. Because I believe exclusively, I find myself bound by certain restraints. You do not. That is the first difference.

I would be interested in discussing the differences between Christ and Gautama elsewhere.

[Bii]

isn't this getting rather off topic? Perhaps this debate belongs in the religious literature forum rather than philosophy?

[blazeofglory]

I know for sure that nobody could answer this question perfectly and knowing that I sill wallow in asking. This is the luxury of asking, at times unmindful of being answered inaccurately or fatuously.
The joy of asking is something unmatchable.

[librarius_qui]

It is in my humble opinion that life truly has no meaning. We are organisms put on this planet to live our life and and do what pleases us. We are nothing but another species with superior intelligence and reason. That is why our life has so much structure and beurocracy. We live our life in guaranteed death. We reproduce and the next generation goes through this life cycle. Repeated hundreds of times all while the process of Evolution takes place. Therefore our life truly has no meaning. In a broader sense nothing really has any meaning whatsoever. But our emotions, our emotions is what blinds us into this anomaly which very few ever realize that we are meaningless. On this earth to do only what pleases us.

I realize that this idea has brought many poets to their death by suicide.

Sincerely, A thoughtful adolescent and realist.


Life has no meaning, until you find a religion :lol: [ ... :bawling: ]


:crash:

[billyjack]

life doesnt need a meaning, until you find a religion

[hoope]

life doesnt need a meaning, until you find a religion


i totally agree with you , without a religion to guide us through, i think there wont be any meaning & goal in life.

[prendrelemick]

Life is not exclusive to us humans y' know.

[mmaria]

The meaning of life is to search for it and to find it.

[blp]

From Monty Python's the Meaning of Life
Exec #1: Item six on the agenda: "The Meaning of Life" Now uh, Harry, you've had some thoughts on this.
Exec #2: Yeah, I've had a team working on this over the past few weeks, and what we've come up with can be reduced to two fundamental concepts. One: People aren't wearing enough hats. Two: Matter is energy. In the universe there are many energy fields which we cannot normally perceive. Some energies have a spiritual source which act upon a person's soul. However, this "soul" does not exist ab initio as orthodox Christianity teaches; it has to be brought into existence by a process of guided self-observation. However, this is rarely achieved owing to man's unique ability to be distracted from spiritual matters by everyday trivia.
Exec #3: What was that about hats again?
Exec #2: Oh, Uh... people aren't wearing enough.
Exec #1: Is this true?
Exec #4: Certainly. Hat sales have increased but not pari passu, as our research...
Exec #3: [Interrupting] "Not wearing enough"? enough for what purpose?
Exec #5: Can I just ask, with reference to your second point, when you say souls don't develop because people become distracted...
[looking out window]

[muazjalil]

Can a meaningless life have a meaningful journey? As for necessity of religion for having meaning and goal in life, being a muslim I guess i have to agree with that statement but as a wanna be logician i am forced to question the universality of the statement on the ground that atheists may question it, LOL.

[PierreGringoire]

Whatever the meaning of life may be, I believe a good direction in actually coming to terms with that abstraction, would be to mindfully not allow yourself to believe anything you don't truly want to believe.

at the same time

"But it is not what we receive in this life but what we are to others that provide the much-desired understanding of our purpose in living." --previous poseter. To concentrate on giving.

at the same time

Believing in your will--and that it will get you to your desired result. Acknowledging that things seem to go fast when you think back about them, and because of this, time almost seems not to exist at all. Its your mind and IT continually slicing through an imaginary barrier--not necessarily time.

Finally--laughing at yourself will get you far in life. Instead of retreating from a philosophy you wish to see through to an end-- laughing may be your last line of defense to spur you to take the few more steps in uncharted territory.

I believe these are the basic 'weapons' we have to seek and possible find (if nothing else) a small piece of a remote hope of a promising reality

[librarius_qui]

Life is not exclusive to us humans y' know.

Ok ... Human life, therefore, has something to do with religion, then ...
A cat's hasn't.


:crash:

[Neo_Sephiroth]

Furball...

[weltanschauung]

when i was young, it seemed that life was so wonderful,
a miracle, oh it was beautiful, magical.
and all the birds in the trees, well theyd be singing so happily,
joyfully, playfully watching me.
but then they sent me away to teach me how to be sensible,
logical, responsible, practical.
and they showed me a world where i could be so dependable,
clinical, intellectual, cynical.

now watch what you say or theyll be calling you a radical,
liberal, fanatical, criminal.
wont you sign up your name, wed like to feel youre
acceptable, respectable, presentable, a vegetable!
http://www.liberalstreetfighter.com/ee/images/uploads/marionette_02.jpeg

[librarius_qui]

when i was young, it seemed that life was so wonderful,
a miracle, oh it was beautiful, magical.
and all the birds in the trees, well theyd be singing so happily,
joyfully, playfully watching me.
but then they sent me away to teach me how to be sensible,
logical, responsible, practical.
and they showed me a world where i could be so dependable,
clinical, intellectual, cynical.

now watch what you say or theyll be calling you a radical,
liberal, fanatical, criminal.
wont you sign up your name, wed like to feel youre
acceptable, respectable, presentable, a vegetable!



You stopped playing ... You should try playmobil! :thumbs_up


:crash:

[NikolaiI]

I was alone in my room feeling sorry for myself
Call me a prophet of doom, I could think of nothing else
I found a freudian book gathering dust upon my shelf
I thought I'll give it a look, would it hurt or would it help ?
Freudiana, do you want to be somebody ?
Freudiana, do you want to change the world ?
I met the wolfman and the ratman, anna-o and little hans
They were walking on a tightrope, I never thought they had a chance
And then a hand reached out to hold them just before they tumbled down
But I was standing in a quicksand and I could not feel the ground
Freudiana, do you want to be somebody ?
Freudiana, do you want to change the world ?
I look back and try to find the part of me I don't know
I won't stop till I see the truth. there's such a long way to go
I saw a picture of a stranger but I didn't understand
He had a ring around his finger and something burning in his hand
And I wanted him to teach me and I needed to believe
But the shadows that he threw me were intended to deceive
Freudiana, do you want to be somebody ?
Freudiana, do you want to change the world ?

http://i33.tinypic.com/2mpztc1.jpg

[peregria]

It is in my humble opinion that life truly has no meaning. We are organisms put on this planet to live our life and and do what pleases us. We are nothing but another species with superior intelligence and reason. That is why our life has so much structure and beurocracy. We live our life in guaranteed death. We reproduce and the next generation goes through this life cycle. Repeated hundreds of times all while the process of Evolution takes place. Therefore our life truly has no meaning. In a broader sense nothing really has any meaning whatsoever. But our emotions, our emotions is what blinds us into this anomaly which very few ever realize that we are meaningless. On this earth to do only what pleases us.

I realize that this idea has brought many poets to their death by suicide.

Sincerely, A thoughtful adolescent and realist.

Everybudy did understand the "meaning of life" as the meaning of our life, humans as if other lifes exist they are not importent to mention.
What is the meaning of the rice life? have any meaning ?
In my opinion yes, as is the food for a big part of humanity , mainly.
And if we , humans, are not the last form of life in the cosmos ?
As I can understand things we can understand what is on our level but this don't include an exterior meaning;
perhaps(supposition) there are lifes who nourish themselves from our thaughts , how possibly can we know that as it is exterior to our life?

I know , I render the idea in a imperfect form,but I hope you can understand what I want to say;
the meaning of our lifes can be, perhaps,found outside our lifes.

And if the question is related to the life in general, all form of life;
perhaps the life is a brilliant poem in a sad univers, I can say.

weltanschauung , your poem and image render a vision of what our life can be,
Nicolai I, your poem and image have something of perfection, they complete each other as the answer complete the question
I don't pretend that I can understand what did inspire you and what did you want to say exactly but it did inspire me and I did understand in my way this poeme related to this image (it remembers me the book covers from Gallimard but also a person ,2be1, and this make me think , brilliant poem and answer.
As hope and deception are part of life the two poems are good unswers
What is the meaning of life for me? :
we prepare for the after life, whatever it will be, we don't know and don't have to know.

[NikolaiI]

d'oh, I apologize, I didn't write that; it's a song by the Alan Parson's Project. weltanschauung didn't write the one he posted either, that's a song too I forget who it's by.. glad you liked the lyrics and sorry for not posting the composer of them. The image is also from an album or something like this, from the same band.

[Parvez Ahmed]

It is in my humble opinion that life truly has no meaning. We are organisms put on this planet to live our life and and do what pleases us. We are nothing but another species with superior intelligence and reason. That is why our life has so much structure and beurocracy. We live our life in guaranteed death. We reproduce and the next generation goes through this life cycle. Repeated hundreds of times all while the process of Evolution takes place. Therefore our life truly has no meaning. In a broader sense nothing really has any meaning whatsoever. But our emotions, our emotions is what blinds us into this anomaly which very few ever realize that we are meaningless. On this earth to do only what pleases us.

I realize that this idea has brought many poets to their death by suicide.

Sincerely, A thoughtful adolescent and realist.

Yes, I agree with you. Life has no meaning. It is just a random error of nature that carbon-based life flowered on earth. This is it and nothing else. All our morals are fake. Love and hate are all illusions. Death and birth are all the same.

[jupiter]

Life has meaning. It's the meaning we give it. If your words do not live as long as Plato's, still I have read them and posted a reply, and someone will post after me. The earth may die and all be forgotten but we are here together now. Even a hermit enters our thoughts.

[A cherubic Girl]

If you think that your life does not have any aim,
then life does not have a meaning in your personal thought..

I do not specialize you but I mean all people in general.

if we spend our time in good deeds, then we will have a happy life..

Hope a happy life for you all.

[muazjalil]

Mr Parvez, i am confused, how does life having no meaning leads to having no moral codes and love hate being illusion. In order to substantiate your claim you need to show that these are necessary attributes of meaningful existence and since by your own definition life is meaningless it will be impossible to assess what are the necessary ingredients of a meaningful life.

If we take Karl Popper's writing, then i guess the only thing we can prove is what are NOT the ingredients of a meaningful life, assuming we are living a meaningless life. The easy way out of this mess would be to declare "Logic" is in itself an illusion in which case the point of discussing will become pointless.

[PierreGringoire]

There is a book called "Candide" that is very thought provoking concerning this topic. Its a 100 page masterpiece.

It gives a somewhat darker side of this argument-- but its fluidity is one of a kind.

[muazjalil]

I agree Voltaire's Candide is indeed a masterpiece but correct me if i am wrong, Voltaire himself was a deist and not an atheist ! I thought the book was a response to Leibniz's saying that this world is "The best of all possible world" after the devastating earthquake in Lisbon.

I forgot but someone in this forum suggested Monty Python's meaning of life, and so i saw it: Pretty interesting, anyone with a taste for British Humor will love the movie.

[weltanschauung]

weltanschauung , your poem and image render a vision of what our life can be,


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBAasek8NR4

[billyjack]

i totally agree with you , without a religion to guide us through, i think there wont be any meaning & goal in life.

not what i meant. life is meaning itself.

religions treat life as if it points to something else, beyond this life--god, heaven, hell, 72 virgins, a reincarnate life, ect.

[PierreGringoire]

"If we spend our time in good deeds we will live a happy life"
That's why a family is such a gift. With uncles, aunts, cousins etc.
If you have the rare opportunity of seeing these people on a regular basis and
start identifying with them -- here it is where you can really learn to have a
giving mentality. In this mode, since we're not as focused on how to "fix" our little immediate world, we become "spirits" outside of our bodies--so to speak -- observing ourselves and intelligently working to make ourselves content and happy. The parasitic first person diminishes and is replaced with a better version of ourselves if you will.

[blazeofglory]

It is in my humble opinion that life truly has no meaning. We are organisms put on this planet to live our life and and do what pleases us. We are nothing but another species with superior intelligence and reason. That is why our life has so much structure and beurocracy. We live our life in guaranteed death. We reproduce and the next generation goes through this life cycle. Repeated hundreds of times all while the process of Evolution takes place. Therefore our life truly has no meaning. In a broader sense nothing really has any meaning whatsoever. But our emotions, our emotions is what blinds us into this anomaly which very few ever realize that we are meaningless. On this earth to do only what pleases us.

I realize that this idea has brought many poets to their death by suicide.

Sincerely, A thoughtful adolescent and realist.

Of course you have lots of insight and I can not negate you and none of the participants herein.

In point of fact life has no meaning as you said, and in point of fact in life we find meanings and not in meanings we find life. Without life meanings cannot spring or orginate.

It is a very subtle and intricate fact and we keep on discovering meanings, buches meanings for life but with time all they wear out and that is why the meanings our grandpas tag to life faded and the ones we annex to it evaporate over time.

To give life a meaning we seek God, heaven, afterlife and the like.

We can not say at all, life is meaningless as well, for we know little. Our sources of beliefs, principles, idelogies find their roots in somebody's mind. And how those originators of ideas or how they got too reamain a mystery.

We synchronize or piece ideas together or assemble them but in truth they are bubbles, noises, just lines or outlines.

I know life precedes meaning and yet I am seeking meanings. I know first I am conscious of myself and of God subsequently but I prime or keep on seeking.

I like this topic or subject beyond words.

[backline]

If, or since, some believe that life has no meaning: that we are critters in a meaningless biosphere: why then cannot I choose a belief system that appeals to me and call that "The Meaning (and purpose)" of my life?
Anybody got a gripe?
I do not force my "meaning" or interpretation of "reality" on anyone else. I don't bomb abortion clinics. I vote my conscience and exist beside others with our meaningless rights.

"...How good life is when one does something good and just!"
-Dostoevsky (Jesus of Nazareth, and Richard Rorty, in agreement)

[nessgavin]

I hear you. But I'm reminded of what Christopher Reeve said when asked about his reaction to his injury. He said that he searched and searched as to why this had happened to him, what was the meaning in it? He came to the conclusion that it was his job to create the meaning. And he did. He raised money and awareness for other parapalegics. Here was Superman, reduced to a state in which he could not even breathe for himself. But he used himself. I think that's what we all must do. Some live for our children or out spouses. Some dedicate ourselves to our country or to humanity in general. But we all have to have a reason to get up in the morning and work to achieve something. No one can give us meaning. We have to create our own.

[blp]

I agree Voltaire's Candide is indeed a masterpiece but correct me if i am wrong, Voltaire himself was a deist and not an atheist ! I thought the book was a response to Leibniz's saying that this world is "The best of all possible world" after the devastating earthquake in Lisbon.

Yes, but Leibniz's notion of this being the best of all possible words is related to his religious belief. God, in his schema, being a perfect being, could not have created a better world.



I forgot but someone in this forum suggested Monty Python's meaning of life, and so i saw it: Pretty interesting, anyone with a taste for British Humor will love the movie.

That would have been me, I think. At least, I was the most recent person to mention it. Glad you liked it.

Can we have your liver then?

[Tally marlauda]

this is amazing. XD



from: a fellow writer.

[peregria]

d'oh, I apologize, I didn't write that; it's a song by the Alan Parson's Project. weltanschauung didn't write the one he posted either, that's a song too I forget who it's by.. glad you liked the lyrics and sorry for not posting the composer of them. The image is also from an album or something like this, from the same band.

Sorry for that, I am more in Mozart music, the point is if what I did understand is wright or not, I think.



Quote:
Originally Posted by peregria View Post
weltanschauung , your poem and image render a vision of what our life can be,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBAasek8NR4

Thanks for the music, I knew it but the words I did understand only when I read them.
Well, I'll be more careful in the future.

For sure now this is what I did when thinking to this thread and to
The Secret Rose (http://dailystudionotes.blogspot.com/2008/12/meaning-of-life.html) of W.B. Yeats

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_26gYS1syGLs/STnjY3EhrcI/AAAAAAAAAUw/ZMxKpVlsZqw/s1600-h/092_rose.png

I hope that it will not appear as out of subject.

[muazjalil]

Can we have your liver then?

Hahaha no liver please; i did not buy one of those credit cards. One wonders if Friedman's The World is Flat was inspired by this movie :lol:

Got hold of the "Holy Grail" (monty python movie, in case someone confuses it with the real deal)

[NikolaiI]

Sorry for that, I am more in Mozart music, the point is if what I did understand is wright or not, I think.


No need :) I'm glad you liked it.

[AshleyMare]

I think if I believed that I would be suicidal, sorry to say. I believe the meaning of life is to love, and simply that. That contradicts what you say if you consider love an emotion but I would consider it more of an ability. We are on this earth to learn of love, learn how to love, and love. Its just that. I can't think of anything more powerful, more necessary, or more meaningful than love. I would even go as far as to say that most of my beliefs are based on the belief that love is why we are here. I probably sound slightly obsessive, but I'm sort of a hopeless romantic, I guess you could say.

[blp]

I think if I believed that I would be suicidal, sorry to say. I believe the meaning of life is to love, and simply that. That contradicts what you say if you consider love an emotion but I would consider it more of an ability. We are on this earth to learn of love, learn how to love, and love. Its just that. I can't think of anything more powerful, more necessary, or more meaningful than love. I would even go as far as to say that most of my beliefs are based on the belief that love is why we are here. I probably sound slightly obsessive, but I'm sort of a hopeless romantic, I guess you could say.

I agree with this and I think it's the best answer anyone's given in this thread. It reminds me of a wonderful clip of one of my favourite directors, John Cassavetes, sitting at a café table and saying, roughly, well, other directors, I don't know what they're interested in, but what matters to me is love, just love, and that's what I try to make my films about.

I hoped I'd find it on Youtube and be able to post it, but no such luck. It's better than my version here. And part of what's so nice about it is that Cassavetes' films aren't sentimental or particularly easy to watch. They show people striving through difficulties, often of their own making, not necessarily achieving love or any sort of simple, happy ending, but you feel their neediness and desire very strongly and, with it, Cassavetes' intense empathy and compassion.

[Joreads]

I think if I believed that I would be suicidal, sorry to say. I believe the meaning of life is to love, and simply that. That contradicts what you say if you consider love an emotion but I would consider it more of an ability. We are on this earth to learn of love, learn how to love, and love. Its just that. I can't think of anything more powerful, more necessary, or more meaningful than love. I would even go as far as to say that most of my beliefs are based on the belief that love is why we are here. I probably sound slightly obsessive, but I'm sort of a hopeless romantic, I guess you could say.

I agree with this as well. But I would take it one step further and that if when we leave this world it is a little better then when we came into than that is all the meaning that I need. Even if you only have it in your power to make one persons life a little better then job well done I say.

[Trilaque]

I believe that we are here to make ourselves known and our destinies unforgotten.

If I were to tell you exactly what I feel my destiny is, it would be that I am here to sacrifice my happiness for the sake of others. To suffer so that they can learn to live and believe in something bigger than themselves.

I strive to do that every day and I guess that's what makes us US. What we do every day is who we are and what will, eventually, shape our futures.


In essence, we are what we wish, or strive, to be.



My words to all of you:

This is YOUR life. This is your ONLY life. Make it mean something more than just money, sex, or drugs because you only have one chance, no matter what you believe in.

[skasian]

In my opinion, theres two types of meaning of life. Spiritual and physical.
If you are religious, then straight away you have a motive/purpose in life therefore have a meaning of life. But for those who arent religious, there would be no spiritual motive in life, as there is no Greater Being to praise and worship. As a Christian, I have a spiritual motive and that governs the main purpose in my life, and that takes the overall form of my meaning of life.

In a physical level, we share a common meaning of life with animals. Does everyone remember the Survival the fittest? This means to reproduce the "best" possible gene combination - In order obtain the highest chance of reproducing such offspring, one must seek the "best" territory and mate. For example, it is natural for human to approve the opposite sex with the best looks and best intellectual ability, and the territory and possessions that is most flamboyant such as the fastest cars and biggest houses. In career wise, it is similar. We all want to be winners, number ones, the best and the most powerful. So if our animalistic innate behaviours are to be accounted in this physical level, the meaning of our life would be to live in the "best" condition and raise "best" offsprings.

But life is short, too short and we ponder the life after death. Again, life is short and death is eternal. That's where the spiritual level kicks back in. Making life in earth a building phase for the life after death is logical in this case. Life after death is eternal life in the Kingdom of God, and it depends on how you lived your life in earth, and that is why God said we are not the people of the world, we are people of His Kingdom- we must neglect the survival of the fittest approach. We must give up the "best" in order to help others. The "best" in earth cannot be compared to the "best" in the Kingdom of God, so the spiritual motive immediately becomes the true meaning of our life - Following God's Words, love Him, love ourselves and our neighbours, share and help others and resist in committing sin.

[blp]

But for those who arent religious, there would be no spiritual motive in life, as there is no Greater Being to praise and worship.



the spiritual motive immediately becomes the true meaning of our life - Following God's Words, love Him, love ourselves and our neighbours, share and help others and resist in committing sin.

And after that, what would be the meaning of 'eternal life'?

Many people such as myself who are not religious do feel that life has meaning. The disagreement between religious people and non-religious people is not necessarily between those who see life as meaningful and those who don't. It's between different notions of meaning. For us, the meaning is here and now and only here and now.

[hoope]

I believe that we are here to make ourselves known and our destinies unforgotten.


My words to all of you:

This is YOUR life. This is your ONLY life. Make it mean something more than just money, sex, or drugs because you only have one chance, no matter what you believe in.

i agree with you .. so reasonable talk.


we live once so lets make the best of all. I know that love is a great thing, but we can do more than that, & we can live for many other reasons other than that too.
We can be a great change in the life of many other ppl who need help that can also give a meaning to our life. No one knows the destiny , the hidden destiny of our life but we sure can take part in "designing it " and make the best of it.

Life can't always be great , & we can't always find what we want out of it but we can accept whateva the faces us .

[billyjack]

Many people such as myself who are not religious do feel that life has meaning. The disagreement between religious people and non-religious people is not necessarily between those who see life as meaningful and those who don't. It's between different notions of meaning. For us, the meaning is here and now and only here and now.

:thumbs_up

owl: what day is it?
piglet: its today...
pooh: my favorite day!!

[pgnambiar]

the views of some are very impressive and i may add that i too believe
that life has no meaning and having born dedicate your life to serve
others and love others


pgnambiar

[NikolaiI]

the views of some are very impressive and i may add that i too believe
that life has no meaning and having born dedicate your life to serve
others and love others


pgnambiar

I am a bit confused.. you say it is natural to serve and love, which I agree with, but if you think this why do you think there's no meaning?

[skasian]

And after that, what would be the meaning of 'eternal life'?

Many people such as myself who are not religious do feel that life has meaning. The disagreement between religious people and non-religious people is not necessarily between those who see life as meaningful and those who don't. It's between different notions of meaning. For us, the meaning is here and now and only here and now.

I am not certain if you were expressing your view directly to my post but I would like to point out that I never made a statement that non-believers think there is no meaning in life. I only outlined the contrasting motives that non religious and religious people had - religious people have spiritual motives in life that makes up their purpose in life while the non religious people have physical motives (while some non religious people may have none) - which is exactly what you hold -"here and now and only here and now." Isn't it correct that your view in the meaning of life makes up only during life in earth? Therefore it is a physical motive. I.E maybe make the most of everyday as if your last.
You have asked me the definition of "eternal life". It is life after death, to be more precise, life in heaven or hell, that holds no sense of time and space, therefore life is infinite and eternal. I hope you have understood the views of the religious, and please don’t forget I completely respect the views of any non religious or people with varying religions.

[skasian]

the views of some are very impressive and i may add that i too believe
that life has no meaning and having born dedicate your life to serve
others and love others


pgnambiar

Dedicating your life to serve others and loving them makes your life have a meaning. Your statement will not be vaild otherwise.

[mark waters]

I think it's great that everyone has a different opinion on the meaning and purpose of life. Some people say there is no purpose; while others say there is a purpose. I think these differences are one of the things that separates us from most mammals. Maybe that is what makes us human? As for my own opinion...I don't know, I am unable to even guess at this point. I think I may be searching for the answer for a long time.

[blazeofglory]

Meaning has obsessed us and we tirelessly busy ourselves with the term.

Life has no meaning and it is meaning less.

Tell me which meaning, and from which lenses? From a spiritual or religious lens or from a scientific lens?

Or from a philosophical standpoint. From no height or corner or angle we can get the meaning of life.

[skasian]

Meaning of life can be only discovered by one that is able to identify the core purpose of life.
People who commit suicide can be identified as being that do not hold knowledge of their purpose in life and how their being is significant in this world.
People who commit suicode therefore can be identified as being that cannot unveil the truth of the meaning of life.

[ChinaRose]

I used to think about it,but I cannot find any answer to it, so I give it up.
One day when I saw the smiles on my parents, I feel one meaninful way of me is to make them happy. :)

[skasian]

Every day tasks are directed to fulfil its purpose, therefore has a meaning to be fulfilled. Every day tasks makes up main goals we make in life, therefore these tasks has a meaning to be fulfilled.
Every main goals in life makes up who we want to be in life, therefore these goals has a meaning to be fulfilled.
Every component we want to be in life makes up life itself, therefore these components we want to be has a meaning that needs to be fulfilled.
Every life in earth with a purpose therefore has a meaning.
Every life in earth has a purpose to serve in heaven or suffer in hell, therefore life has a meaning to be fulfilled to be united with God in heaven, or suffer forever in hell.

[blazeofglory]

Heaven and hell are states of the mind only. There are no territorial landmasses called heaven or hell in other than our minds.

[skasian]

It is unclear where the borderline lies between the mind and the spirit however we do know that it is the spirit that continues with its journey after life.

[JacobF]

It is in my humble opinion that life truly has no meaning. We are organisms put on this planet to live our life and and do what pleases us. We are nothing but another species with superior intelligence and reason. That is why our life has so much structure and beurocracy. We live our life in guaranteed death. We reproduce and the next generation goes through this life cycle. Repeated hundreds of times all while the process of Evolution takes place. Therefore our life truly has no meaning. In a broader sense nothing really has any meaning whatsoever. But our emotions, our emotions is what blinds us into this anomaly which very few ever realize that we are meaningless. On this earth to do only what pleases us.

I realize that this idea has brought many poets to their death by suicide.

Sincerely, A thoughtful adolescent and realist.

Sounds like you just read Fight Club.

Scientifically, yes, we are just huge wastes of space. We contribute nothing to the natural world and have already ravaged the earth with our self-serving goals. But we have been given the gift of intellect. It is through this gift we can appreciate things such as literature. It is how we can speak to each other through these strange devices called computers. And I cherish the gift that I have instead of lamenting it simply because in the grand scheme of things I am nothing. While we can dwell on the fact that we are merely biological masses whose lives individually mean practically nothing, I prefer to give my own life meaning. Nihilism is permanent, but we may as well "seize the day."

[skasian]

One of the meanings of life is we, as sociable beings, must provide love and care to our neighbours no matter who they are.

[Teeqs89]

Life isnt permanent, the world isnt permanent..

As Shakespeare once said, the world is a stage..
We are merely actors, with lines written by God and when our part is up, we have to leave the stage.. whether we like it or not..

But that doesnt mean, you shouldnt live it..
Let us all be actors who improvise the script and have fun while doing it...

[skasian]

Life isnt permanent, the world isnt permanent..

As Shakespeare once said, the world is a stage..
We are merely actors, with lines written by God and when our part is up, we have to leave the stage.. whether we like it or not..

But that doesnt mean, you shouldnt live it..
Let us all be actors who improvise the script and have fun while doing it...

What about some people's footprint in the world. Lets only assume the permanency in the world. Famous beings such as James Joyce, Einstein, Mozart, Leonardo da Vinci or even Marylin Monroe. They leave a permanent footprint in the world that will be remembered in future ages.

[jon1jt]

It is in my humble opinion that life truly has no meaning. We are organisms put on this planet to live our life and and do what pleases us. We are nothing but another species with superior intelligence and reason. That is why our life has so much structure and beurocracy. We live our life in guaranteed death. We reproduce and the next generation goes through this life cycle. Repeated hundreds of times all while the process of Evolution takes place. Therefore our life truly has no meaning. In a broader sense nothing really has any meaning whatsoever. But our emotions, our emotions is what blinds us into this anomaly which very few ever realize that we are meaningless. On this earth to do only what pleases us.

I realize that this idea has brought many poets to their death by suicide.

Sincerely, A thoughtful adolescent and realist.

I think you're very wrong and you're overthinking the subject. We are genetically conditioned to find meaning as a means of survival, and when we no longer find anything worth latching ourselves to we seek therapy, and usually drugs or booze, as the way to it. When materialism, love, or art can't fill the emtiness only because you weren't built that way.

[skasian]

I believe meaning of life is following your belief no matter of the arduous obstacles.
I believe meaning of life is doing everything in your power to achieve palmary for yourself and for your loved ones.
I believe meaning of life is something very simple yet veiled by unnecessary thinking that blinds the discoverer.

[0=2]

No, there is definitely a meaning to life. You all just don't understand. I have a meaning. I must have a meaning. Look, I'm here, and when I was young I was told by my father a very long story about hte moral implications of cause and effect and THEREFORE there must be a cause to my undertsanding.

And you look here, when I went to college they taught me about laws and rules by which nature can be applied and will bend to and they handed me a paper that read "PURPOSE" in gold font and patted me on the back and now I have a job and kids and there is PURPOSE in that, is there not?

And no, you look here, things die but they live, and if you acknowledge the purpose you too will find it, and live.

And no, you must be sad, beacuse a world without purpose is sad, and I am happy, because I must be because something greater than this loves me and it ISN'T my own creation because it's absolute.

And no, I am not religious, I simply have purpose.

And yes, there is purpose.

[skasian]

No, there is definitely a meaning to life. You all just don't understand. I have a meaning. I must have a meaning. Look, I'm here, and when I was young I was told by my father a very long story about hte moral implications of cause and effect and THEREFORE there must be a cause to my undertsanding.

And you look here, when I went to college they taught me about laws and rules by which nature can be applied and will bend to and they handed me a paper that read "PURPOSE" in gold font and patted me on the back and now I have a job and kids and there is PURPOSE in that, is there not?

And no, you look here, things die but they live, and if you acknowledge the purpose you too will find it, and live.

And no, you must be sad, beacuse a world without purpose is sad, and I am happy, because I must be because something greater than this loves me and it ISN'T my own creation because it's absolute.

And no, I am not religious, I simply have purpose.

And yes, there is purpose.

I am happy to shout a yay for someone knows purpose exists in our lives, now go and save the imbeciles out to commit suicide. Im not being sarcastic, guy I know committed suicide yesterday and only if he thought over his purpose in life, he would have held back his intentions. Too late now, but its not too late to help other people that are thinking of suicide.

[blp]

From Steve Martin's The Jerk:



Navin R. Johnson: Is it getting hot in here?

[The view switch to the outside of the trailer, as we still hear their voices]

Navin R. Johnson (suddenly yelling in a mixture of shock and excitement): Wait a minute - what's happening to my special purpose!?
Patty Bernstein (in a passionate voice): What's your special purpose?
Navin R. Johnson (still yelling): Well, when I was a kid my mom told me... there goes my special purpose! And someday I'd find out what my special purpose was!
Patty Bernstein: Today's the day!
Navin R. Johnson: (moaning as we see the whole trailer shakes from the outside): Hey, this is like a ride!

[0=2]

I am happy to shout a yay for someone knows purpose exists in our lives, now go and save the imbeciles out to commit suicide. Im not being sarcastic, guy I know committed suicide yesterday and only if he thought over his purpose in life, he would have held back his intentions. Too late now, but its not too late to help other people that are thinking of suicide.

...Actually I was being sarcastic, there's no discernable difference between life and death to anyone but us and those who choose to eat us, and considering we're at the "top" of the food chain must of them would rather we be dead.

[skasian]

...Actually I was being sarcastic, there's no discernable difference between life and death to anyone but us and those who choose to eat us, and considering we're at the "top" of the food chain must of them would rather we be dead.

Sarcastic or not, I believe that your previous remark was quite rightful, and that life does have a purpose than just serving nature as being top of of the food chain.

[0=2]

Congratulations. Does that make death easier for you?

Nice as pointed optimism chained to lofty ideals on human "morals" are... the fact remains atrocity still occurs, and writing it off as different from utopia is only a moralists stand-point, and the moralists happiness in such a situation is terribly tied to his or her surroundings.

I'd suggest a more vertical alignment so that you don't sink quite as easily when Guantanamo touches home.

[skasian]

Congratulations. Does that make death easier for you?

Nice as pointed optimism chained to lofty ideals on human "morals" are... the fact remains atrocity still occurs, and writing it off as different from utopia is only a moralists stand-point, and the moralists happiness in such a situation is terribly tied to his or her surroundings.

I'd suggest a more vertical alignment so that you don't sink quite as easily when Guantanamo touches home.

Making death easier for me? How does living your life to the best with sense of morals make death easier? Pure fear is what affects a person's perspectives about death and living your life with morals doesnt affect the fear that arises from death.

[novlist*star*]

Life,,life,,life
It is to born on this a wide theater..to began your role as a great man and to die or leave this world as a greatest man,,

[xsteff1991x]

My opinion is, that the meaning of life is to simply give it a meaning. Make it worth living.
On a larger scale considering science and evolution etc I agree life could be seemingly pointless but the meaning I place on my own life is that I should use whatever time I have on doing things which make me happy. I like to think that their may be a God but I don't follow religion and I don't really believe in one as such. It's a nice idea and who really knows.

[skasian]

Thomas Hobbes considers "a man's present means to obtain some future apparent good," where he's aim of every activity is to obtain happiness and its good, avoiding evil and fear which is the recognition that good may not be attainable.

In this logic, it is true that we hope that everyday we may gain maximum amount of happiness and beneficial goods. The line "make most of everyday" is relevant, which links to gain happiness, how everyday we must be willing to make the effort to attain so.

Aristotle believed in Teleology of Nature, a study of the purposes things serve. He believed that in order to understand why the things they were, we must have a solid understanding of what purpose they were created to serve.

In order to reveal the meaning of life, it is true that we must reveal the purpose of life first, which requires us to understand what purpose mankind was designed to achieve.

[weltanschauung]

Meaning of life can be only discovered by one that is able to identify the core purpose of life.

cyclical.



Heaven and hell are states of the mind only. There are no territorial landmasses called heaven or hell in other than our minds.

exactly.


It is unclear where the borderline lies between the mind and the spirit

to you.

[billyjack]

Aristotle believed in Teleology of Nature, a study of the purposes things serve. He believed that in order to understand why the things they were, we must have a solid understanding of what purpose they were created to serve.

In order to reveal the meaning of life, it is true that we must reveal the purpose of life first, which requires us to understand what purpose mankind was designed to achieve.

bolding mine. go to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hume and check out design argument.

a meaning for life is found through experience. probably important that our reasoning and terminology in this thread subscribe to experience

[skasian]

cyclical.




exactly.



to you.

Of course the meaning of something and its purpose to serve something is cyclical. That is the point. To know the meaning of, we must firstly know its purpose. However we cannot discover the meaning first and purpose second. The order is what is important. To know the meaning of life, we must know what purpose it is there to serve.

So you think I am the only one who thinks figuring out what belongs to the spirit and what to the mind is difficult? I ask you, how do you differentiate between the two, when we think, does it come from the brain, mind or heart?

[skasian]

bolding mine. go to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Hume and check out design argument.

a meaning for life is found through experience. probably important that our reasoning and terminology in this thread subscribe to experience

Thanks for sharing information about Hume, but I have to disagree with his thoughts.

1. " Design accounts for only a tiny part of our experience with order and "purpose". "

This experience Humes talks about I see is strictly is based on our daily lives in our physical world. Experience as what we perceive by our physical senses, in concrete substances in our world. As God, the designer is above all physical layer, it is not easy for us to sense Him in this world, therefore we cannot include Him directly to our everyday experiences, which is the reason why it SEEMS that God accounts for a small part of our experiences.

2. "Furthermore, the design argument is based on an incomplete analogy: because of our experience with objects, we can recognise human-designed ones, comparing for example a pile of stones and a brick wall"

Supports my idea that it is not easy for us human to recognise God into being in our experiences, especially to the non religious. We human are so used to recognise what we can directly relate to, see the organic and human made in this world, and failing to receive the message from God spiritually. I think that we fall for the easy, the obvious, and ignore the difficult and the unobtrusive.

3." Who is designer's designer? "
The religious believe that God is the beginning and the end, the alpha the omega, the first and the last. What it comes down to is really faith. He alone is the Creator, the infinite of light and hope.

I would like to add, the religious improves their belief with God through experiences that relate with Him spiritually. It doesnt recover the idea that these experiences help us to understand the meaning of God in any way.

Having life experiences doesnt necessarily mean that we gain more understanding about life at all. The experiences may teach us a thing or a two about the way we SHOULD live our lives, however it may not contribute at all to our understandings of our purpose in life. If we miss this vital knowledge, we miss the knowledge of meaning of life altogether.

[weltanschauung]

Of course the meaning of something and its purpose to serve something is cyclical. That is the point. To know the meaning of, we must firstly know its purpose. However we cannot discover the meaning first and purpose second. The order is what is important. To know the meaning of life, we must know what purpose it is there to serve.

So you think I am the only one who thinks figuring out what belongs to the spirit and what to the mind is difficult? I ask you, how do you differentiate between the two, when we think, does it come from the brain, mind or heart?



no it isnt, skasian, that is NOT the point. when you dont know something you should simply say "i dont know this". your arguments are always revolving around cyclical arguments that dont explain anything at all. " im hungry because i wanna eat", yeah, great one sherlock. the meaning of life, the purpose of life, same thing, this isnt about etymology.

"So you think I am the only one who thinks figuring out what belongs to the spirit and what to the mind is difficult? I ask you, how do you differentiate between the two, when we think, does it come from the brain, mind or heart?"

excuse me? when have i said that?
putting words in my mouth doesnt validate your argument, sorry.
there is a great difference between mind and spirit. im sure you are familiar with freud, so you should start reading that maybe, if you want a materialistic aproach to the subject. id, ego and superego, theres a great difference between the three of them, and you can even link those three to the superior triangle of the sephirot tree, kether, binah and chokmah, if youre willing to take a deeper and more philosophical aproach to the subject.
im not trying to win a contest on who gives the longest and most eloquent speech, so if you want to find out all these things you arent sure of, go seek for youself.

[skasian]

no it isnt, skasian, that is NOT the point. when you dont know something you should simply say "i dont know this". your arguments are always revolving around cyclical arguments that dont explain anything at all. " im hungry because i wanna eat", yeah, great one sherlock. the meaning of life, the purpose of life, same thing, this isnt about etymology.

"So you think I am the only one who thinks figuring out what belongs to the spirit and what to the mind is difficult? I ask you, how do you differentiate between the two, when we think, does it come from the brain, mind or heart?"

excuse me? when have i said that?
putting words in my mouth doesnt validate your argument, sorry.
there is a great difference between mind and spirit. im sure you are familiar with freud, so you should start reading that maybe, if you want a materialistic aproach to the subject. id, ego and superego, theres a great difference between the three of them, and you can even link those three to the superior triangle of the sephirot tree, kether, binah and chokmah, if youre willing to take a deeper and more philosophical aproach to the subject.
im not trying to win a contest on who gives the longest and most eloquent speech, so if you want to find out all these things you arent sure of, go seek for youself.

I find myself repeating for your own sake. Meaning of Life and purpose of life are NOT the same thing. You can understand the meaning of something by knowing the purpose it serves first, but not the other way around. If the two things were the same, you wouldnt have this restriction. Take the discovery of the fire, a caveman has to know the purpose first to know the meaning, not the otherway around.
"Im hungry because I wanna eat" and "I wanna eat because Im hungry", is different to what I said, see the difference.

Since when was my argument revolving around cyclical arguments that dont explain anything at all? If you dont understand something I express, then please ask what you dont get.

Look at your last posts, when I said
"It is unclear where the borderline lies between the mind and the spirit"
you said "to you" as if I am the only one that cannot create a borderline between the two. If I have misunderstood your remark, then I apologise.

[joseph90ie]

hi...i don't think there's a responsibility to create meaning. If there's no meaning - which I believe - why infer anything from this meaninglessness. This meaninglessness is a bald, unworkable fact, to be accepted and then walked away from; I don't see why it must be the premise of a new argument. Once meainglessness is accepted, any further conversation about meaning is out of place. I think it's better just to talk about motivation, personal desire - whatever. But the acceptance of meaninglessness - meaninglessness is incapable as a foundation for anything.

[skasian]

What in the world does not have a meaning. Everything that is designed to have function has a meaning. Its simple as that.

[billyjack]

skasian. again, your wording is flawed. you assume meaning bc you assume a design. a meaning for life other than living and dying probably doesnt exist in my opinion, but nonetheless, unqualified premises such as the design argument or a creator are no way to reach a suitable answer to the title of this thread.

anyhoot, i wanna rebutt your rebuttal of hume argument against design:

hume

1. " Design accounts for only a tiny part of our experience with order and "purpose". "


you

This experience Humes talks about I see is strictly is based on our daily lives in our physical world. Experience as what we perceive by our physical senses, in concrete substances in our world. As God, the designer is above all physical layer, it is not easy for us to sense Him in this world, therefore we cannot include Him directly to our everyday experiences, which is the reason why it SEEMS that God accounts for a small part of our experiences.

without experience and our senses we have no knowledge to speak of. to conclude that something beyond our realm of knowledge is responsible for our being here is really saying nothing in the realm of knowledge because you cant even have an infinitesimal idea of anything that isnt sensed, experienced, or rationally deduced.

hume

2. "Furthermore, the design argument is based on an incomplete analogy: because of our experience with objects, we can recognise human-designed ones, comparing for example a pile of stones and a brick wall"


you

Supports my idea that it is not easy for us human to recognise God into being in our experiences, especially to the non religious. We human are so used to recognise what we can directly relate to, see the organic and human made in this world, and failing to receive the message from God spiritually. I think that we fall for the easy, the obvious, and ignore the difficult and the unobtrusive.

no. the design argument is a weak weak analogy. you cant just use the inability of human recognition of the divine to support a designer. again, your really saying nothing here except that you have some 6th sense which can recognize design where others cannot.

hume

3." Who is designer's designer? "

you

The religious believe that God is the beginning and the end, the alpha the omega, the first and the last. What it comes down to is really faith. He alone is the Creator, the infinite of light and hope.

a bible quote has no place in this argument. its an appeal to an unreliable authority. unreliable bc bronze age superstition in a highly illiterate portion of the middle east is laughable in comparison to modern day theory of the universe and our world.

[The Comedian]

Pha! This is an easy one.

Of course there's a "meaning" to life. Nice part is -- we get to pick what that meaning is. If your life doesn't have a meaning, then go pick one. There's plenty of candidates out there: kids, art, the Earth, sex, a warm cup of coffee in the morning, being a sarcastic SOB, posting on message boards, God. . .

And the doubly nice part of life's "meaning" is that it's commitment free -- If you want to sleep around with another meaning, the old one won't mind one bit. Heck, you could have multiple meanings if you wanted, and none of them would be jealous. Of course, you'd have some time management to do, but that's better than angst-ridden aimlessness. Unless, of course that kind of thing gives you meaning.

:)

[billyjack]

:thumbs_up

[blazeofglory]

In point of fact the meaning of life is layered and no one has kind of been able to find it. We all make assumptions, ideas about it but we do not know. We do not know why we are here, and the reason for being alive is yet to be unfolded to us. No prophets, no Gurus, no pundits have ever been able to decipher the meaning of it. No one under the sun could demystify it, so many strivings notwithstanding

[robertlc53]

humans are aware. which is why they fear their impending doom. your life will one day have purpose sharp. it is on that day that you will retract your statement. your life must currently have no purpose. when you are at work your purpose is to perform your duties and obtain a paycheck. therefore you have a stated purpose. when you live life and love it and everyone in it you have a stated purpose. there is no grand design (although religion innatley disagrees with this and liberty together) or blueprint ie no stated purpose to life. no one is gonna come around and say to the collective human race "I'VE GOT IT! from months of calculating i determined the surefire way to reach perfect harmony and symbiosis would be if every person DID _________ !!!!1(insert stated-collective human purpose her)" so therefore you are the author of your own book, not some omniscient predecessor who cracked the code of the cosmos!

[forty 6 & 2]

i had some spare time and joined this thread today. it seems to me that the articulate top .1% are flexing their intellectual muscle to out philosophise (sic) each other in some kind of metaphysical pissing contest.(You'd swear i'd never been on the internet before!). The fact that everyone seems to be so sure of their own take on the subject only goes to reinforce my own theory that the wisest man/woman knows that they know nothing. Live. Feel. "Over thinking, over analysing/ seperates the body from the mind"... Peace and love

[robertlc53]

i had some spare time and joined this thread today. it seems to me that the articulate top .1% are flexing their intellectual muscle to out philosophise (sic) each other in some kind of metaphysical pissing contest.(You'd swear i'd never been on the internet before!). The fact that everyone seems to be so sure of their own take on the subject only goes to reinforce my own theory that the wisest man/woman knows that they know nothing. Live. Feel. "Over thinking, over analysing/ seperates the body from the mind"... Peace and love

answering a question constitutes adding to the collective knowledge/piss available in this thread? and then you go on to say that knowing nothing is enlightenment. what muscles you have.

[forty 6 & 2]

What question am i answering? Please enlighten me. An don't say "what is the meani... blah blah blah". The language you use in your previous posts is juvinile nihilism to say the least, are you 14?

[forty 6 & 2]

"juvenile"

[skib]

I agree with you on several points- I don't have time to read this entire thread to see what has been said, but I oftentimes find myself wondering why I feel like the most insignificant, meaningless sack of **** on the face of the planet. If life is supposed to have a meaning, why is it such a pain in the *** to figure out? Granted, that is considered the great mystery- to figure out that meaning.

I also think The Comedian is onto something- the meaning of life has no generic terms other than to figure it out for yourself. Your meaning depends on where you take your meaning from- your job, your spouse, significant other, your God, your lack thereof, it doesn't matter. If you want the meaning of your life to be the slimiest crook ever to slither the earth, by all means, go for it. Just get caught quick so the rest of us don't have to suffer you.

[ShoutGrace]

It is in my humble opinion that life truly has no meaning. We are organisms put on this planet to live our life and and do what pleases us. We are nothing but another species with superior intelligence and reason. That is why our life has so much structure and beurocracy. We live our life in guaranteed death. We reproduce and the next generation goes through this life cycle. Repeated hundreds of times all while the process of Evolution takes place. Therefore our life truly has no meaning. In a broader sense nothing really has any meaning whatsoever. But our emotions, our emotions is what blinds us into this anomaly which very few ever realize that we are meaningless. On this earth to do only what pleases us.


Sharp, I see where you get this idea, but I would qualify it. Life may have no intrinsic meaning. . .we live, we die as any other animal. But that "superior intelligence and reason" you acknowledge humans to possess imbues us with a burden - we alone recognise the futility and meaninglessness of existence, therefore we have the responsibility to create meaning for ourselves.
This is not an intrinsic "meaning of life," some absolute quintessence- it is an individual construct forced upon us by the emotions and reason we possess.


I agree. Given the view that humans are merely biological organisms and that death brings annihilation, life is futile and meaningless. There is no objective or intrinsic meaning to human existence, or anything else for that matter. “Everything is pointless and therefore so is saying so.” In such a condition, creating meaning for ourselves helps us get out of bed in the morning, and enables us to act in many cases.

Says the great atheist Bertrand Russell:

“Such, in outline, but even more purposeless, more void of meaning, is the world which Science presents for our belief. Amid such a world, if anywhere, our ideals henceforward must find a home. That man is the product of causes which had no prevision of the end they were achieving; that his origin, his growth, his hopes and fears, his loves and his beliefs, are but the outcome of accidental collocations of atoms; that no fire, no heroism, no intensity of thought and feeling, can preserve an individual life beyond the grave; that all the labours of the ages, all the devotion, all the inspiration, all the noonday brightness of human genius, are destined to extinction in the vast death of the solar system, and that the whole temple of Man's achievement must inevitably be buried beneath the debris of a universe in ruins . . .”

He ends the passage by saying:

“Only within the scaffolding of these truths, only on the firm foundation of unyielding despair, can the soul's habitation henceforth be safely built.”

We may do well to consider the nature and colour of such a habitation (keeping in mind that by some lights, it is all we have).

[Judas130]

In point of fact the meaning of life is layered and no one has kind of been able to find it. We all make assumptions, ideas about it but we do not know. We do not know why we are here, and the reason for being alive is yet to be unfolded to us. No prophets, no Gurus, no pundits have ever been able to decipher the meaning of it. No one under the sun could demystify it, so many strivings notwithstanding

Indeed, one may claim (as i have done many times over) that an obvious approach to meaning may be best. What do we do, essentially? we live, and reproduce, and die. Yet why is this? why do we reproduce? of course, to promote the species, but what attachments and purpose can this serve beyond the blunt obvious? To simply say our meaning is 'to procreate, and die, nothing else' would be flawed, as meaning includes significance and personal attachment, while simple logic does not.


"Over thinking, over analysing/ seperates the body from the mind"... Peace and love

Maynard James Keenan? A good song my favourite of Tool in fact, yet what a terrible thinker.
I don't see how separating the body from the mind can be viewed as a terribly bad thing, unless keenen wants us to base ALL we do on carnal desire. Which, even I, cannot support fully. His statement means: 'chilllll go smoke dope dude, thinking doesn't matter', Which is hardly relevant in a thread that requires thought. The body exists separate to our mind, but it is persistently influenced by it, whereas a dog has one mind and body. Pseudophilosophy such as Maynard's fails at meeting the requirements of argument.

[robertlc53]

What question am i answering? Please enlighten me. An don't say "what is the meani... blah blah blah". The language you use in your previous posts is juvinile nihilism to say the least, are you 14?

ha. i was saying that your post is a waste. we are here to propose answers to questions. your response was a complete waste and everyone could do without it here is my point.

[godlessdaeth]

Isn't that the meaning of your life, sharp?
these and everything is the same. and dependent on the same thing. we all exist for existing sake.

[godlessdaeth]

we exist for the sake of existing. and not only that but the same go's for everything.
so i think that the meaning to life is to simply exist.

[billyjack]

i see what yer saying godless but to say that everything exist for existence sake doesnt really get us any further than we already are. an all encompassing statement can't really be checked and studied. its like saying all is god or something. sure it might be, but you cant really prove this or disprove it so its sort of...meaningless....you know what i mean.

[La Amistad]

Meaning of life is a puzzle therefore the meaning of life is to solve the puzzle, and it is only solved when one dies.

simple.

[billyjack]

so the meaning of life is to die? hokay agent smith.

[Mr Endon]

Ah, the age-old question!

The meaning of life is the epitomisation of the human beings' "besoin d'avoir besoin", or the need for necessity. The way I see it, consciousness is an accident, the interesting if freakish result of a chain of events. I'm with Camus when he says that the human being seeks meaning where there is none.

There's definitely not a "purpose", and I don't think there's a definite "meaning", either. Nor must there be one. For me, life is like a one-day ticket to an amusement park. I'm not sure how it was that it came to my hands, but now that I have it, and since I'm aware that it expires soon, why not make the best of it.

[backline]

"Meaning" is whatever I ascribe value to, in life.
The tricky part is that my ego identity seems really involved in the process.
My authentic self seems to think it doesn't matter.
I prefer the experience of my authentic self.
My ego identity hates that.

In the book of Genesis Adam names all the animals. This is the mechanism of ascribing meaning (symbolically). Things are what we say they are.
My ego really gets turned on when I say, "Things are what we say they are."

My right brain just says, "What is, is. It matters not whether I ascribe meaning to it."

[Teeqs89]

What about some people's footprint in the world. Lets only assume the permanency in the world. Famous beings such as James Joyce, Einstein, Mozart, Leonardo da Vinci or even Marylin Monroe. They leave a permanent footprint in the world that will be remembered in future ages.

This permanence is still temporary. Yes, they will be remembered for their contribution, for their work but only as long as we exist - as long as the world exist. Thus, it isn't truly permanent now- is it?

[angel92]

I agree that their is no meaning in life. I mean when you think about it you can see that this is how existentialism originated from. And they did have a point when you think about it. What is our purpose here other than to reproduce and insure the existence of our species? Why would we be given this high intelligence if their is no point in life? I mean do other animals question this idea of why they are there. If we look at the culture today children are being taught to study in order to become wealthy and then they may think about themselves. Those that do follow these ideals tend to live a regretful life when they are on their deathbeds. If their is a purpose in life I would think it would be that we are born and placed in this wonderful planet to live our life like all the other animals. Thinking about the present instead of the future and its possible riches.

Does someone understand what I mean that they may help me clarify?

[dizzydoll]

:willy_nilly: wow I cant wait to get back to read this post and others later on today

[Vautrin]

99.9% of all species that have ever lived are now extinct. We are the first species intelligent enough to know that the earth (nature) kills most of its inhabitants. Our "meaning" is to avoid extinction. "Meaning" is a word exclusively understood by human beings. It is a specific byproduct of the way our brains are constructed and how they have evolved. Bears do not ponder such things. It only has meaning to us. Religion tries to mask this, for good reason, since the reality of the situation is quite bleak.

[myron12]

It is in my humble opinion that life truly has no meaning. We are organisms put on this planet to live our life and and do what pleases us. We are nothing but another species with superior intelligence and reason. That is why our life has so much structure and beurocracy. We live our life in guaranteed death. We reproduce and the next generation goes through this life cycle. Repeated hundreds of times all while the process of Evolution takes place. Therefore our life truly has no meaning. In a broader sense nothing really has any meaning whatsoever. But our emotions, our emotions is what blinds us into this anomaly which very few ever realize that we are meaningless. On this earth to do only what pleases us.

I realize that this idea has brought many poets to their death by suicide.

Sincerely, A thoughtful adolescent and realist.
Well I kind of agree.

We run around living our lives chasing things like brands and stuff that really mean nothing but yet some people live their lives concerned with so many insignificant things, thinking they know the world and life, when truly no one knows!

When you think about the fact that we are alive, wow. Life itself is so amazing, i live it love it, we can ponder the why for ever. The only logical thing to do is make the most of it. Forget about all the crap we are taught, because everything we taught is about nothing as there is no real understanding or answers. All assumptions!

This life has so much to offer, the only logical thing to do is embrace it and do whatever the hell you want with it, because one day your world will come to an end.

"The question of "why life" shouldn't be given thought, but only the question "how to live" because living itself is the only understanding and proof"

[dizzydoll]

Meaning
Meaning is not something we can get to with our minds; it is not an answer found in the mind. It is not an ideal or an image we're fulfilling. It is not a result of anything. It is just falling into one's nature. To be able to simply fall into one's nature, is, however, not easy. It is the most difficult thing there is. It takes perseverance, patience, sincerity, and compassion for oneself. And it may take a long time. (Diamond Heart Book 3, pg 48)

Ultimately, the desire for meaning and significance is a search for identity. Our activities are meant to give us a sense of who we are. "What gives me significance?" When we explore this we find that it has something to do with a sense of self. "Who am I?" (Diamond Heart Book 3, pg 40)

Personality and meaning
The ego personality deals with the loss of a sense of meaning by creating a sense of meaning. As we have seen, the usual personality or ego way of trying to create meaning is by having goals and aims that you will attain one of these days. The meaning of your life becomes the attainment of those goals. For most people life has meaning only in terms of these long-term goals and hopes. Ego's way of dealing with the loss or absence of realization is too relegate it to the future. (Diamond Heart Book 3, pg 103)

Self-realization and meaning
When you know yourself, when you realize your true identity, the meaning of life does not come to you in the form of a conceptual answer to a question. It is not an answer in your mind. It is you. The Presence, fullness, and intrinsic preciousness is directly experienced; it is not in reference to anything else. It is complete autonomy; only the experience itself can give a taste of this satisfaction. This experience of self-realization is the answer, in the sense that it ends the drive. It is true absence of seeking. (Diamond Heart Book 3, pg 45)

In the dimensions of Essence there are experiences of self-realization in which meaning is based on the presence of the realized state in the present moment, rather than being based on the future. This eliminates the dependency on the future. Goals and aims become less and less important. In other words, the aim becomes the present moment, and the present moment is its own significance, is its own preciousness. The present moment is not different from the self-realization, which is not different from the self that is realized, which is not different from the reality that is precious. (Diamond Heart Book 3, pg 104)

:iagree:

[nathin]

I, as I have stated in other threads, believe that the point in life is simply: there is no point in life, so have as much fun as you can before you die

[pravdaveritas]

For all of those who think that whatever meaning life has is that which one gives it:

Let's say that everyone in the United States decided to make their meanings about themselves, and leave other countries alone. No missionaries. The government pulls back the military & doesn't help 3rd world countries. Everyone has fun.

If I get this right, this is okay?

[cyberbob]

Do we mean the meaning of human life? Because obviously if we look at all other living things apart from our own egocentric selves, the only real point is to survive long enough to reproduce.

I suppose on an individual level the point is to seek happiness and live freely.

[Derwind]

I like Susan Wolf and Moritz Schlick's approach to meaning in life.

Particularly I think Schlick has it right when he says that Work should be grounded in play. Otherwise, we really wouldn't have much motivation to do anything at all.

Also, Wolf's premise that we should be actively engaged in activities(projects) of worth in that they are intrinsically valuable activities that we could derive some meaning from in our lives

Then again I'm not familiar with many philosophers and there works. :P

[gruntingslime]

personally, I think that would lead to anarchy and much unpleasantness (to say the least).

This response to sHaRp12's comment "On this earth to do only what pleases us." is illogical because if people were to do what pleases them, and it came to a result which was "unpleasant" that would logically mean that humans were not doing what pleases them, because they would be doing that which is unpleasant, and so the understanding of what humans would do to please themselves would have to be rethought to take an ultimate shape of which was pleasing. What I mean to say is, as soon as there is an objection that, this act of "pleasantness" equals unpleasantness, then it negates the original act of pleasantness and makes it something which is unpleasant, so technically it could not be the act which was pleasant to begin with, and the act of which was pleasant would have to be something else entirely which would have a result which could be called pleasant.

[Theunderground]

Life is beautiful!!!!!! That is MY meaning. You guys need to get out and do things you enjoy more, and/or get a new perspective.

[Zelian]

First of all: I have not read all the previous posts since the list was a long one, so things I say in this post might be said before, but these are my thoughts on the subject.

In many ways the conversation related to 'the meaning of life' is a pointless one to say the least. Perhaps one day there will be certain proof of life's formula, and its goal, but the way I see it is that we still have no evidence of a universal goal or purpose for us humans.

Each and every person adds to their own personal meaning of life. Everybody defines the meaning of life in their own way, evidently leaving everyone to deal with it in their own way. One might take up a religion and devote their life to it, others might abandon the idea of having a purpose and just live their lives day by day, and even others do commit suicide to just end it all.

Now, those are some brief thoughts on the way I perceive the discussion on the meaning of life. This being said, one might wonder what my personal beliefs are. I might disappoint some of you, but I truly belief there is no goal, other than to pass on our genes. Although that's what I truly believe, I like to think that in a way my goal is to live a happy life, filled with company I enjoy having, and just generally doing whatever I feel that's right.

Well, my room-mate and a friend of mine just interrupted my line of thought and I'm afraid I'll have to leave it at that. I'm going to enjoy my dinner now.

[country doctor]

Roar!

[usman.khawar]

i think life is Exam..
And a Jail.

[osho]

This is the stupidest question I have ever heard. What meaning life has? Life is life and life can be anything: a saint, a murderer, a saver, a destroyer, a homicidal, a suicidal, a bomber, a killer, a savoir, a Christ, a Lucifer, a Buddha.

Keep a new born baby in a particular circumstance he will be what you want him to be, a Gandhi or a predator, a Hitler or a Mandela.

Life is meaninglessness and it is sheer nothing, a void, a nothing.

All you have fixated on any opinionated thoughts are trashes and they muddle you more than what you previously were. You will be deluded and misguided if you read more of those foolish scholars who look at things through colored lenses.

[cafolini]

This is the stupidest question I have ever heard. What meaning life has? Life is life and life can be anything: a saint, a murderer, a saver, a destroyer, a homicidal, a suicidal, a bomber, a killer, a savoir, a Christ, a Lucifer, a Buddha.

Keep a new born baby in a particular circumstance he will be what you want him to be, a Gandhi or a predator, a Hitler or a Mandela.

Life is meaninglessness and it is sheer nothing, a void, a nothing.

All you have fixated on any opinionated thoughts are trashes and they muddle you more than what you previously were. You will be deluded and misguided if you read more of those foolish scholars who look at things through colored lenses.

Osho, calm down. In arguing this point you don't realize how much you contradict in your statements. When you say something has no meaning, even something as ample as life, you are claiming a meaning, i.e., no meaning.
The problem with meaning is that you see it when it is in front of you but it cannot be defined. Life has a lot of meanings, both sensical and nonsensical.

[osho]

Osho, calm down. In arguing this point you don't realize how much you contradict in your statements. When you say something has no meaning, even something as ample as life, you are claiming a meaning, i.e., no meaning.
The problem with meaning is that you see it when it is in front of you but it cannot be defined. Life has a lot of meanings, both sensical and nonsensical.

I like your last comment that accords with what I had in mind and yet I had no words to translate into a meaning

Life has a lot of meanings, both sensical and nonsensical

[usman.khawar]

Life: a never ending story

[Paulclem]

Life - a tale of

birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death, birth ageing sickness death...

According to some. :lol:

[cafolini]

I like your last comment that accords with what I had in mind and yet I had no words to translate into a meaning

Life has a lot of meanings, both sensical and nonsensical

That is the meaning.

[BienvenuJDC]

Our lives are here for us to serve. It's up to us to choose our master.

[osho]

In fact meaning if life has any is something born of our perceptions and beyond and above that life has no meaning and if is like void, space and the same space is called room, inside, outside,geographies, planets, stars and galaxies and after all it is just space and life is as blank as that and we are stuffing with our trashes and invented stocks

[Theunderground]

You guys are mixing up the physical sciences with psychological expressions.
No child ever asks the 'meaning of life' its only us over intellectual adults that ask these silly questions. Free-will/meaning/god, yada yada... Just enjoy loving interpersonal relationships,and if you havent got any find them or improve yourself till you are capable of getting and maintaining one. Read 'montaignes on FRIENdSHIP'. (but dont take it literally!)

[cafolini]

Our lives are here for us to serve. It's up to us to choose our master.

That idea of service is hard to grasp. Too advanced for a locomotive without anything beyond analogical conscience. Besides, who would want to master us who hasn't already done it. Good clue.

[Clay MacDonnell]

This helps me:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Participatory_theory

[cafolini]

You guys are mixing up the physical sciences with psychological expressions.
No child ever asks the 'meaning of life' its only us over intellectual adults that ask these silly questions. Free-will/meaning/god, yada yada... Just enjoy loving interpersonal relationships,and if you havent got any find them or improve yourself till you are capable of getting and maintaining one. Read 'montaignes on FRIENdSHIP'. (but dont take it literally!)

There are many many writers that made sense on friendship. But you have a good point. Children ask the meaning of doing as they are told, but never the meaning of life unless they are made to live in misery and lose their senses. More than half the world cultures have that effect on children and perpetuate confusion and madness.