The Kreutzer Sonata

[Idril]

I love this short story, I think it is perhaps my favorite of Tolstoy's short works but it does make me wonder, do you think the opinions of the main character reflect those of Tolstoy and if so, Wow! He really disliked and distrusted women, didn't he? And sex...he had some very extreme views on the value of, or lack of value, of sex. It surprises me how open he is in his discussion of sex, to comdemn it of course, but writers of the period usually use all kinds of euphemisms and flowery, vague words to talk about sex but Tolstoy doesn't pull any punches and that's kind of refreshing.

[arrrvee]

and it was really agonizing for his wife, sonya (who mostly copied out all of his works) who saw the story as a sort of insult to her and to their love.

[Idril]

I had read that and yes, it would be hard not to be hurt by it, it really is a very brutal picture of marriage. I wonder what his kids thought of it once they were old enough to understand it, it doesn't express a great love of children either.

[arrrvee]

i'm currently in a tolstoy mood right now. yesterday i borrowed a lot of book about tolstoy -- i basically wanna read about his courtship, engagement and marriage with with sonya. not surprisingly, tolstoy did use some of it and modeled levin and kitty after him and his wife during the early stages of their marriage. and while reading anna karenina, it wasn't the story of anna and vronzky that appealed to me; it was that of levin and kitty. so i just had to "find out from the source" how much of it is true.

i also borrowed "the kreutzer sonata and other stories" yesterday and will be reading it tonight. i actually borrowed the book because i've heard so much about "the devil". any thoughts on that?

will get back to you soon as i finish reading "the kreutzer sonata"..

[Idril]

i'm currently in a tolstoy mood right now. yesterday i borrowed a lot of book about tolstoy -- i basically wanna read about his courtship, engagement and marriage with with sonya. not surprisingly, tolstoy did use some of it and modeled levin and kitty after him and his wife during the early stages of their marriage. and while reading anna karenina, it wasn't the story of anna and vronzky that appealed to me; it was that of levin and kitty. so i just had to "find out from the source" how much of it is true.

I have been seriously considering finding a good biography of Tolstoy. I'm not much of a biography buff but his life and philosophies were so fascinating I think I might step out of my comfort zone and try his biography.


i actually borrowed the book because i've heard so much about "the devil". any thoughts on that?

I haven't heard of that one! I have two short story collections of Tolstoy but that story isn't in either of them, I'm going to have to go searching for another one apparently because I would like to have a complete set of his short stories, or at least reasonably close to a complete set...ok, I've checked out amazon and my copy of The Devil and other short stories is on it's way...I'll get back to you when I've finished it. ;)

And I'll be anxious to hear what you have to say about The Kreutzer Sonata.

[arrrvee]

there's a really good biography of tolstoy by henri troyat. i was browsing a second hand bookstore here in toronto and found one for $7.95. i bought it right away! and you know what? i just found out that tolstoy and i share the same birthday!

i read the chapter titled "bethrotal" and it's just so beautifully written it almost reads like levin's awkward proposal to kitty in anna. i highly recommended this biography if you intend on reading about tolstoy's life. it's very good..

the book that i borrowed from the library is called the kreutzer sonata and other stories and it includes: the title story, the devils, the forged coupon and after the ball. it's by penguin by the way..

i wanna read war and peace. any suggestions on the best translation? i've heard a lot of praise about the new transalation by anthony briggs..which one would you suggest?

[Idril]

i wanna read war and peace. any suggestions on the best translation? i've heard a lot of praise about the new transalation by anthony briggs..which one would you suggest?

I am terrible about noting translations. I don't really pay attention to who does it and I'm sure I lose out because of it. I live in a fairly small town and there's usually only one option to choose from so I don't give it a second thought, I just pick it up. Now that I do a lot of my book shopping on amazon, I could be a little more discerning, I just need to get into the habit of checking. Ann Dunningan did the translation of the one I have and I liked it, in fact I loved it but I have no idea how accurate it is. :confused:

I haven't seen him around in a while, but Boris is a good person to ask about translations, if he pops up, he's the one to go to. ;)

[MikeK]

i wanna read war and peace. any suggestions on the best translation? i've heard a lot of praise about the new transalation by anthony briggs..which one would you suggest?

Richard Pevear and Larissa Volokhonsky (husband and wife translating team) are famous for their recent translations of many Russian works (Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Gogol, Chekhov, and even "The Master and Margarita" from 20th century Russian Lit; Their translations of "The Brothers Karamazov" and "Anna Karenina" won awards.). They are very highly acclaimed and just from personal experience I've always preferred their translations. Anyway, they are now working on "War and Peace" and it is supposed to be out early next year, if you feel like waiting (I'm waiting on their translation before I read "War and Peace" - it might be frustrating to read a 1500 page novel and then find out a few months later that a great, new, award-winning translation has appeared). Just thought I'd let you know.

[arrrvee]

i've heard of them and i think they're pretty much the definitive traslators of the russian classics (doestoevsky and tolstoy). i've read their translation of anna karenina, which i think is just amazing. it totally blew away constance garnetts version.

however i'm reading the latest translation of war and piece by anthony briggs. i like it and i think it's pretty good. the narrative just flows smoothly. (he even translated the french passages -- very thoughtful i think for a guy like me who doesn't speak french.) i'm enjoying the book quite a lot and maybe i'll read the pevear and volokhonsky transalation after and compare them both.

[Maida]

I just started The Kreutzer Sonata, and right from the start the main character begins condemning sex, marriage, women...

I think Tolstoy totally shared most of the views as his character at the time, he's so open about all of it.

[Idril]

I just started The Kreutzer Sonata, and right from the start the main character begins condemning sex, marriage, women...

I think Tolstoy totally shared most of the views as his character at the time, he's so open about all of it.

He is, isn't he!? And so extreme! I find myself being both horrified yet terribly fascinated by his views. I think there are times when marriage can be as nightmarish as he describes but it doesn't have to be although he seems to have the opinion that it can be no other way. We've already talked about what his wife thought about it but I wonder what his daughters thought of it, his view of women is really unflattering.




i actually borrowed the book because i've heard so much about "the devil". any thoughts on that?


I have read that now and it is quite similar in some ways to Sonata just in the way that marriage is doomed and men are powerless against their base needs. Which ending did it have? Did he kill himself or his temptress?

[Dontknow]

I love this short story, I think it is perhaps my favorite of Tolstoy's short works but it does make me wonder, do you think the opinions of the main character reflect those of Tolstoy and if so, Wow! He really disliked and distrusted women, didn't he? And sex...he had some very extreme views on the value of, or lack of value, of sex.

Tolstoy's diaries (written by him for 60 years, if I am not wrong) are the best of his biographies, I think. At least you’ll gradually see how that hatred towards sex etc. has been growing. That hatred was not only a consequence of his reformed views but also based on personal experience. Actually his wife was the hardest burden making this man's life (of old age) quite unhappy.

[Dontknow]

(First, sorry for bad English, not a native language).
Well, he (Tolstoy) used to practice sex quite frequently at young age considering that healthy, fashionable and something fitting the image of ‘come il faut’ man. But with the age he grows more spiritual and under the light of his purified views he condemns that kind of passion as something not able to be related with GOOD. Why? Perhaps because that passion is capable to inspire positive energies only in people currently fallen in love whereas in other cases that’s just imitation and fake :p

[4ppl]

I finally found some time to read The Kreutzer Sonata. I did not expect I would find out such dull morality in that story of my favourite writer...

[WeLoveStories]

Tolstoy is a great author and it's absurdly to disclaim that fact...but I didn't like The Kreutzer Sonata for instructive and categorical tone author used to talk about the contradictory ideas.

[Idril]

(First, sorry for bad English, not a native language).
Well, he (Tolstoy) used to practice sex quite frequently at young age considering that healthy, fashionable and something fitting the image of ‘come il faut’ man. But with the age he grows more spiritual and under the light of his purified views he condemns that kind of passion as something not able to be related with GOOD. Why?

I had read that too, that that rejection of women and sex came later in life but reading his biography it seems like it was something that he struggled with from the beginning. He would be determined to keep himself pure and strong but inevitably, he would succumb to temptation and then feel like a complete failure. This is an exerpt from a diary entry when he was in the Caucasus, I think he was around 24 or 25 at the time:


Could not hold out. I motioned to something pink which looked very nice from a distance. I opened the back door. She came in. Now I can't stand to see her any more; everything is vile and ugly; I hate her, because she drove me to break my resolution....I bitterly repent of it. I have never felt it so strongly as now.

I think that shows that he was never completely resolved to the idea of sex, it filled him with shame and regret almost every time. He may have been a sexually active young man, but he never felt good about it.

[Dori]

I just finished "The Kreutzer Sonata" yesterday. Needless to say, I thought this book was startling, but I was perhaps not as startled as any given woman. However, I must admit that, to a certain extent, I agree with the following quotes:

"It is a marvelous thing how full of illusion is the notion that beauty is an advantage. A beautiful woman says all sorts of foolishness, you listen and you don't hear any foolishness, but what you hear seems to you wisdom itself. She says and does vulgar things, and to you it seems lovely. Even when she does not say stupid or vulgar things, but is simply beautiful, you are convinced that she is miraculously wise and moral."

"Ask an experienced coquette who has set herself the task of entrapping a man, which she would prefer to risk: being detected in falsehood, cruelty, even immortality, in the presence of the one whom she is trying to entice, or to appear before him in a badly made or unbecomig gown,---and everytime she would choose the first."

I reluctantly agree with the first one, being a guy and subject to such perceptions. However, I have found that these perceptions decrease with age, that is men see women more for their personality and whatnot as they mature, or at least such is my experience. As for the second quote, I must say this is applicable to many women as far as I can tell.

I recommend reading Robert G. Ingersoll's review of "The Kreutzer Sonata." It can be found here. (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_North_American_Review/Volume_151/Issue_406/Tolsto%C3%AF_and_the_%22Kreutzer_Sonata%22#top)

As for biographies on Leo Tolstoy, the following one was listed in the "Further Reading" section of my edition of "The Kreutzer Sonata":

Wilson, A. N. Tolstoy: A Biography. (http://www.amazon.com/Tolstoy-Biography-N-Wilson/dp/0393321223/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1197085435&sr=8-2)