Garden of Eden: a Parable???

[=Monkey_King=]

For all christians and non-christians who know the story of the garden of eden... I think its just a parable that i translate like: (as in my siggy :P:P)

Human knowledge is frugal; let us forget it
Leading to corruption and rapid change
The wise have lost the privelage
Of living forever, snatched away by the fools

In the story God did not let Adam and Eve eat the fruit of knowledge or the fruit of immortality.

This theory is also voiced in my faint recall of a chinese quote by Lao-tzu: It is hard for a fool to become intelligent, it is harder for someone with intelligent to become a fool.

(Foolish as in gaining wisdom? The people who were considered wise (not to be confused with logical) were almost always very impractical)

[Shea]

I'm not going to bother.

[imthefoolonthehill]

ok Shea, if you won't, I will.... Monkey-King.... you have an opinion. Congratulations... that means you're pulse is still active.

However, your opinion sucks (in a good way). Theologically, people cannot get around the way that Genesis (especially the first few chapters) is written. The Bible is pretty clear as to what is a parable and what isn't a parable. The first few chapters of Genesis (the account of Adam and Eve, the creating of the world etc) are written as though they are solid fact, not a parable. THey are told in the same language as the other parts of the BIble which are not considered figurative.

You can believe that the Bible is an old history book, and take almost everything figuratively, and have no problem with your logic.

You can logically believe that the BIble is the word of God and that it is very clear where the figurative and non-figurative things lie.

You cannot logically believe that the BIble is the word of God and simultaneiously believe that the first few chapters are meant to be taken figuratively or symbolically.

If you think about it, I believe you will find that it is really that simple.


Even if it WAS a parable, that meaning would be found absolutely nowhere within it. Have you read it? My gosh, it sounds like you got your information straight from the Today show. (read: garbage)



"Human knowledge is frugal; let us forget it
Leading to corruption and rapid change
The wise have lost the privelage
Of living forever, snatched away by the fools"

The BIble is heavy on human knowledge and Wisdom (ever read Proverbs?) It does not diss on the ability of humans to comprehend things.

Your proposition is completely and ridiculously unbiblical.

[Shea]

Thank you imthefoolonthehill, I didn't mean to sound annoyed, I'm just tired.

[imthefoolonthehill]

you didn't sound annoyed, but I think I did.... :-D

[=Monkey_King=]

Well then how do you translate what Jesus said about being children? Aren't children completely lacking in knowledge? So I take this as abandoning knowldege and being like real humans. The brain is not a tool for thought, its just for survival. I dont really care if im biblical or not in my opinion reading the bible or not does not make a whole lot of a difference. (The first apostles and John the Baptist never read the new testament)

And in my opinion i still uphold that that is a parable, because there is NO way the world could have been made 6000 years ago... and happened as it says in the old scriptures, and after only 8000 years lead to today... It is ridiculous to think that God must write facts for so long then send his son to write parables.

And im writing about my faith not about the bible :D
I always write in great generalizations, I dont really like to get into detail :eek:

[imthefoolonthehill]

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

LOL! Jesus wasn't talking about people being stupid when he asked us to be like children. God loves wisdom in knowledge in humans. It is found all over the Bible. He does not ask us to close our eyes to science.

You don't care your theology (which is based on the bible... i am assuming... considering how part of your belief system is based on the early parts of Genesis being a parable) is biblical?

You would rather just grab the parts of the Bible that fit your belief system and turn the rest into parables?

You say the Bible isn't important?

Ok... fine... then why are you so concerned about what parts are parables and what parts aren't? Why do you even care what is written in there?

"because there is NO way the world could have been made 6000 years ago"

I disagree. Our dating systems are flawed, our scientists are biased, and our logic circular.

"It is ridiculous to think that God must write facts for so long then send his son to write parables"

You are absolutely correct there.

In the old testament, God sometimes speaks in riddles in teaches with parables. However, Genesis is not written like a parable or a story, but as though it is to be taken as fact. To claim that the first few chapters of Genesis is a parable is no less ridiculous than to claim that the geneologies and historical accounts of the Kings of Israel are parables.

"I always write in great generalizations, I dont really like to get into detail"

Maybe I shouldn't bother you with the facts. :p

[=Monkey_King=]

Of course you dotn know what I am thinking, how can you doubt the creation of the world while doubting that the world was not created 6000 years ago, while thinking science is important? That means that you think humans are stupid (scientists) and therefore i reach the conclusion that human knowledge is futile. There is no good and evil, theres people who can be "considered" a little bit better and a little bit worse but there is no GOOD and EVIL in humans.

My words are actually quite popular in Taoist philosophy of China. Taoism is like Christianity except that it aknowledges the futiility of the human mind, as in my opinion Jesus willed it to be.
Quote proving that being humble is being superior:
Water only lies in low places yet it has the power to cut out the cliffs.
Im aware that this is the only religion that goes far as saying:
If you attain the tao (way) even the acts of heaven can be reasonable. (And why should it be to most people since God does not stop genocides and attrocities?)

And why should i bother with facts? Did the early christians shut them selves in libraries and study all day long? No, they were humble people just living with love of God and their "brothers."

I find it amazing that people just base their viewpoints in a book, and I can say with no doubt that tehre are a million viewpoints in the bible in the world. Who's right and who's wrong?

The bible was compiled by a rudimentary council of early christians that had some of their view biased when the Roman Empire declared it their official religion. Im not saying that it is wrong, im saying that it shoud not enjoy the infallibility that it enjoys right now.

Every story written by God is a parable, although it can carry history along with it. And do not think that just because it is written in a story like manner that it is not a parable. When Thomas believed that Jesus was the son of God when he knew that he was near the fig tree without seeing him, Jesus proclaimed the "superiority" the the ones who know beforehand.
And essentially, the old testament is the "before" of the new testament, as Jesus came to "fulfill" the scriptures.

-----------------------------------

And you might like to rethink the meaning of the world stupid, as written by Taoist philosopher Lao Tzu:
"There is wisdom in stupidity"
"The advantage of lying low"

"Being children essentially means that we give up the societical bonds (like how complex jargon is used in many respected fields, and those who do not write in this rubbish is considered, "superficial," "uneducated" etc etc
Look how SOlomon in all his glory cannot match the beauty of a flower...

[Shea]

Just wanted to add to what foolonthehill said (thanks again). Jesus wanted us to have faith and humble ourselves like children. Think about it. Children don't know what prejudice is until we teach it to them. They are not skeptical. They tend to show natural selfishness, but they also learn from punishment a lot easier than we do (especially if they are raised properly). These are the childlike qualities He wanted us to have. Not idiocy.

[mrbillbenson]

The Creation is the beginning of man's natural existence. The Garden is man's beginning as a spiritual being.

[AbdoRinbo]

Garden of Eden: a lie?

[Shea]

*sigh*no Abdo, *gives a reassuring pat on the shoulder* I think people need to study a little more of the Bible before they go making assumptions about things they really don't know about.

[Ickmeister]

*barely holding back the laughter* *tears rolling down cheecks from it* This Site is awesome!

[=Monkey_King=]

Only difference between assumptions, and supposedly the "truth" is that one has no supporters while the other has lots :D

Majority is not always right, especially when it comes down to complicated things :o

And this site is awesome :cool: