Secret Senses

[jackyyyy]

We have five senses in which we glory and which we recognize and celebrate, senses that constitute the sensible world for us. But there are other senses - secret senses, sixth senses, if you will - equally vital, but unrecognized, and unlauded.
Oliver Sacks

I come across this quote which seems sensible enough, and made me tick off five senses to be sure I remembered what they were. I had a problem when it continued, "..there are other senses - secret senses..". Sounds like an area of general interest to everyone:

What is a secret sense?

[Bluebiird]

Well, I'd assume that a secret sense is another sense that you have on top of the other five, one you don't know about or are only partly aware of.
Something like the ability to see things before they happen or something like that.
That's what I think anyway. Others may have different ideas

[Eagleheart]

A secret sense-nothing secret...neglected in the course of adaption sounds more reasonable to me ...if we all believe in human nature/if there is such thing than it should be grounded on common characteristics/if so...than when a performance of controlling your body temperature simply by your will or the stream of energies in you,takes place it should not be rejected wholeheartedly... because than this supposes that is in the nature of everyone ...Some of the hidden abilities of the human are due to these senses...they are obscure because of our primitive state of mind...of course there could be another explanation of all the phenomenons.../part of the standartized answers/-the tricks of all those eastern magicians ...this always ends the discussion and skepticism/in my way-primitivism/ prevails...

[Bandini]

I think what I consider 'awareness' could be considered a secret sense.

[beer good]

What is a secret sense?
If I told you, it wouldn't be a secret, would it?

[jackyyyy]

Following the Asian tsunami, scientists struggled to explain reports that primitive aboriginal tribesmen had somehow sensed the impending danger in time to join wild animals in a life-saving flight to higher ground. A new theory suggests that the anterior cingulate cortex, described by some scientists as part of the brain's "oops" center, may actually function as an early warning system -- one that works at a subconscious level to help us recognize and avoid high-risk situations.I agree, the word, 'secret' implies its been hidden, when 'not understood' might fit better. I grabbed this article which indicates to me the potential at least, of some 'awareness' outside of the 5 senses.

I usually think that 'awareness', is brought about by the use of the first five senses. I never really question the word 'intuition', just understand its some feeling or sense of something. Aren't intuition and awareness the same thing?

[jackyyyy]

If I told you, it wouldn't be a secret, would it?Thats right, so now I want to know what it is. :D

[Gawaine]

I think what I consider 'awareness' could be considered a secret sense.

I would call it 'Divine Awareness'. Some have called it the 'Third Eye', as well.

It is the sensing of divinity. Some may sense divinity when they look into the clouds. Others may sense it when they look inwardly to themselves, or into another person. Others still, specifically followers of the Eastern religions, will see souls in all things - both living and not. The elemental religions of the East see in all things a 'Thou', whereas monotheistic religions will limit divinity to a smaller group of the Triumverate, Man, and any other phenomenan attributed to 'God'.

[Gallantry]

I wrote an essay about a "sixth sense " for the soul. Feel free to read it Here (http://www2.writing.com/main/view_item/item_id/1087298)

[mono]

I think what I consider 'awareness' could be considered a secret sense.
Precisely, Bandini.
Along with acute awareness, I have also seen a 'sixth-sense' referred to as intuition, which, depending on who you ask, may go hand-in-hand with awareness. It consists of a sense of perceiving something (just like sight, hearing, smelling, tasting, and touching), but devoid of all the other five senses.
Personally, I feel quite skeptical of their existence, but many so-called 'ghost-chasers' utilize this sense.

[The Unnamable]

Jackyyyy, if we have only five senses, can you please explain to me what my sense of balance is? And how about my sense of heat, sense of pain and my sense of where my body is?

“More easily demonstrated than explained, proprioception is the "unconscious" awareness of where the various regions of the body are located at any one time. (This can be demonstrated by anyone's closing the eyes and waving the hand around. Assuming proper proprioceptive function, at no time will the person lose awareness of where the hand actually is, even though it is not being detected by any of the other senses).”

Why do you think senses are or have to be ‘secret’? Are these others not miraculous enough?

[mono]

Jackyyyy, if we have only five senses, can you please explain to me what my sense of balance is? And how about my sense of heat, sense of pain and my sense of where my body is?
Though I do not intend on correcting such a bright mind, such as yours, unnamable, but the sense of balance actually originates from a mechanism in the ear, related to hearing, deep within the inner ear. This also explains why when one has an ear infection of any kind, he/she may feel dizzy, off-balance, or frequently fall.
The sense of heat comes from unique neurons in the skin calls thermoreceptors, and the sense of pain originates from nociceptors, thus traveling from the localized site, ascends the spinal cord, and into the brain, where it gets interpreted as pain.

[jackyyyy]

Jackyyyy, if we have only five senses, can you please explain to me what my sense of balance is? And how about my sense of heat, sense of pain and my sense of where my body is?

“More easily demonstrated than explained, proprioception is the "unconscious" awareness of where the various regions of the body are located at any one time. (This can be demonstrated by anyone's closing the eyes and waving the hand around. Assuming proper proprioceptive function, at no time will the person lose awareness of where the hand actually is, even though it is not being detected by any of the other senses).”

Why do you think senses are or have to be ‘secret’? Are these others not miraculous enough?Hearing, sight, taste, touch, and smell. Sense of balance is my body telling my brain that I am or am not balanced (as on a tightrope). 'Sense of' or 'sense from' something would come from information that the brain uses to decide if something is balanced or not, or hot, cold, etc.

Yes, these five are miraculous enough, and they are evident. While I can understand why I may not know of or understand a sixth, I wonder why in the quote he says its a secret. Is it a secret because it was secreted (made into a secret), or is it a secret because I do not know what it is? The definition of the word seems okay as an adjective, but not as a noun. What do you think?

[Bandini]

That was a well written, interesting piece of writing, but here's the rub: "...and more specifically, Christianity..." Why?

[Bandini]

"...nothing more than other organisms seeking to get the same fix or bang the same *****..."

"...horrifying reality of rampant sexual immorality..."

"...my classmate on the other hand was quite bound to the meat of his being and obligated to sexual impulses and selfish needs..."

One word: ISSUES

[Bandini]

Well - you can always take comfort in the fact that they'll all burn in hell. They might have their nasty girlfriends and their...their... filthy sexual relationships, and a desire to have a good sex life, but you'll be laughing when they're all burning and you're sat on a Deeee-luxe cloud huh?

Saying that, I hate that macho/jock/competitive attitude towards women that you might be alluding to.

[Gallantry]

Obviously it says Christianity because I am a Christian. The essay is one of opinion and was not presented as fact. The only reason I even linked it here was because of the discussion concerning the sixth sense: I thought it appropriate to discuss this "sense for the soul" as another possible sense along side other non-named senses such as balance etc. that have been brought up. If you would like to condescend on my views more or have a debate about my religion this isn't the thread to do it in. I won't be laughing and I don't think sexual relationships are filthy.

[Bandini]

It came across a little like that.

[jackyyyy]

You know, its still a secret yet. And, I guess until we know what it is all doors are wide open. I have to correct myself above, now I'm not sure what a secret is anymore:

se·cret (sē'krĭt)
adj.
Kept hidden from knowledge or view; concealed.
Dependably discreet.
Operating in a hidden or confidential manner: a secret agent.
Not expressed; inward: their secret thoughts.
Not frequented; secluded: wandered about the secret byways of Paris.
Known or shared only by the initiated: secret rites.
Beyond ordinary understanding; mysterious.
Containing information, the unauthorized disclosure of which poses a grave threat to national security.
n.
Something kept hidden from others or known only to oneself or to a few.
Something that remains beyond understanding or explanation; a mystery.
A method or formula on which success is based: The secret of this dish is in the sauce.
Secret A variable prayer said after the Offertory and before the Preface in the Mass.

http://www.answers.com/topic/secret

[Nightshade]

How about this, what if secret as in you are not physically/consiously aware of it until suddenly you are.
I maean look at cats and earthquakes ( mind you cats have n\more thatn 5 senses dont they, anyway?)
where was I oh yes earthquakes I assume never having been a cat that they are not constanly feeling no easryhquake no earthe qauke no earythquake and then oooohhh earthquake. but suddennly feel a need to hide/take shelter thus there earthquake sense is on and if they never lived through an earthquake the sense would always remain hidden "secret" from them.

Mind you even I can sensse an earthqauke a few seconds before the walls starts shaking so that was a rubbish example but you get my drift??

[jackyyyy]

How about this, what if secret as in you are not physically/consiously aware of it until suddenly you are.
I maean look at cats and earthquakes ( mind you cats have n\more thatn 5 senses dont they, anyway?)
where was I oh yes earthquakes I assume never having been a cat that they are not constanly feeling no easryhquake no earthe qauke no earythquake and then oooohhh earthquake. but suddennly feel a need to hide/take shelter thus there earthquake sense is on and if they never lived through an earthquake the sense would always remain hidden "secret" from them.

Mind you even I can sensse an earthqauke a few seconds before the walls starts shaking so that was a rubbish example but you get my drift??You still thinking about those exotic cat pictures in that thread over there. :lol: Well, the scientists can at least be sure the animals ran to higher ground before the Tsunami, and possibly the aboriginals just followed the animals. So, maybe you are onto something here. And, that is whats in the back of my head here too; is there something akin to 'cats' that is hidden away somewhere?

[Nightshade]

huh?? what cat pictyures
no Jackyyy it might be the fact that both of us live in cheshire and are thus constantly being brought face to face with subliminal cat images ...and then there is the building socity, the kids libraray cards,not to mention mad catrs on the roof etc etc etc

[jackyyyy]

huh?? what cat pictyures
no Jackyyy it might be the fact that both of us live in cheshire and are thus constantly being brought face to face with subliminal cat images ...and then there is the building socity, the kids libraray cards,not to mention mad catrs on the roof etc etc etcAND don't forget... CHESHIRE CATS :brow:

[Nightshade]

Obviously thats where the sublimable message comes from and then there are those smiling adverts ( cheshire cats Im sure) and the thompson directories.
yes we are haunted by cats.

[jackyyyy]

Come to think of it, I have never seen a grin without a cat and there's a cat on the lawn doing this: :nod:

[Nightshade]

ao you have head banging cats? Ours like to dance to elvis...well one does anyway :lol:

Anyway back to secretr sense yes I think its like a secret agent as in works secretly.

[The Unnamable]

sense of balance actually originates from a mechanism in the ear, related to hearing, deep within the inner ear. This also explains why when one has an ear infection of any kind, he/she may feel dizzy, off-balance, or frequently fall.
The sense of heat comes from unique neurons in the skin calls thermoreceptors, and the sense of pain originates from nociceptors, thus traveling from the localized site, ascends the spinal cord, and into the brain, where it gets interpreted as pain.
Sorry, mono – I don’t understand your point – but then perhaps you didn’t understand mine. Are you saying that balance is not a sense? I know the things you mention but I don’t know that it’s as simple as to say that we have only five senses. Yes, every child is taught this but these assumptions are now rightly challenged. Have a look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senses

What I find revealing is that people look for something beyond the human when the human itself is far more interesting.

[Gallantry]

What I find revealing is that people look for something beyond the human when the human itself is far more interesting.

I see what you're saying and agree wholeheartedly that the human is very interesting. To say it is more interesting than what is beyond human though can't really be supported because it depends upon the imagination of whoever you are talking to. I could imagine plenty of things that make the human dull in comparison;however, I also find that if I wasn't a human(some objective being) the human would be pretty high up there on the crazy things I imagine.

[jackyyyy]

The Twelve Senses

In the 1920s, at a time when conventional physiology only recognized five or six senses, Rudolf Steiner proposed that there were far more. He defined twelve senses; of these twelve, the first nine are now well-recognized: the equilibrioceptive (balance), proprioceptive (movement), nociceptive (sense of pain and wellness), tactile (touch), gustatory (taste), olfactory (smell), thermoceptive (warmth), visual and auditory senses. Steiner proposed three more senses as well: the sense of phoneme or language, the sense of thought and the sense of ego (the ability to recognize an ego outside of our own); he termed these three 'higher senses' that depended upon the healthy development of the foundational senses of balance, movement, pain/wellness and touch. Steiner's last three senses have not been confirmed by scientific research; in particular, sensory organs for them would have to be found.To me, the first 5 seem straightforward, we can more easily ID them. The next 4 appear to be 'sense of' or 'sense from', meaning they are derived from a a part or combination of the first 5. What about Language, Thought, Ego? Is it fair to call them 'senses', or are they also derived from the first 5? This makes me think of chemisty, where we have elements and compounds. Is language, for example, a compound of those first 5 (or 9)?

[jackyyyy]

ao you have head banging cats? Ours like to dance to elvis...well one does anyway :lol:

Anyway back to secretr sense yes I think its like a secret agent as in works secretly.In my neck of the woods we do have cats that are into Status Quo, headbangers, and you are quite right about 'secret agent' too, as in agent that is empowered to act. Cats have nine lives and humans have one, must be good to have more senses.

[byquist]

Perhaps an "intuitional" sense about things. Intuitions, promptings, inspirations.

In "The Cherry Orchard" Petra Trofimov, while they are all philosophizing about death, says to the effect that maybe we wake up afterwards with 100 senses, and not just the 5 that we here so measure. He's in possession of an artistic sense or temperament, along with goofiness and ongoing intellectual pursuits. Arkadina calls him an "eternal student."

Another phrase in usage is "spiritual sense," as in "Spiritual sense is the discernment of spiritual good."

[jackyyyy]

Perhaps an "intuitional" sense about things. Intuitions, promptings, inspirations.

In "The Cherry Orchard" Petra Trofimov, while they are all philosophizing about death, says to the effect that maybe we wake up afterwards with 100 senses, and not just the 5 that we here so measure. He's in possession of an artistic sense or temperament, along with goofiness and ongoing intellectual pursuits. Arkadina calls him an "eternal student."

Another phrase in usage is "spiritual sense," as in "Spiritual sense is the discernment of spiritual good."If there are 9 or 12, why couldn't there be 100. Indeed, there could be an infinite number. Reminds me of moments of heightened awareness, as in a moment of danger, everything is magnified, senses of things we do not relate to in everyday life suddenly exist - blue is more blue. All because at that moment we are more alert/aware. Then, all senses, and lets say, potential senses, sit in our DNA, and only the most needed senses develop from 'practice'. So, "spiritual sense" would grow with practice too. Intuition is like premonition.

Thanks, byquist.

[byquist]

Jackyyyy,

As Doyle Lonigan asks in "The Sting," "Ya' follow?" likewise I, with Redford, follow your drift which is appealing.

However, you bring up DNA -- chemicals; that existence is chemically based or indelibly linked.

Now, Chekhov, albeit schooled as a physician, also albeit dying young from a stong-minded disease, did seek at many times a distancing from the physiological sense of existence.

While DNA and genetics have become the current most popular and near-idolized assertions, they can be seen as antipathetic to the word, Spirit. Any senses originating and deriving from Spirit, must be non-material, non-matter; non-DNAish, non-chemical.

Cutting this link with DNA does not cut the link with our humanity, health, natural experience, etc., but rather disposes of the negative side of DNA (which are many -- for half or more of people DNA is not kind, but vicious), and enables a spiritual sense to harmonize the physical senses.

Of course, such talk is stuff that Darwinists don't like to hear, but there is a lot of fun that they miss out on by pushing his agenda into every sliver in society.

I'm sure you didn't want to open such debate, so consider the above to be blather if it doesn't register. I'm outa here.

[mono]

Sorry, mono – I don’t understand your point – but then perhaps you didn’t understand mine. Are you saying that balance is not a sense? I know the things you mention but I don’t know that it’s as simple as to say that we have only five senses. Yes, every child is taught this but these assumptions are now rightly challenged. Have a look here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Senses

What I find revealing is that people look for something beyond the human when the human itself is far more interesting.
I do, indeed, agree that balance proves itself as a sense, only just as much connected to hearing, as seeing black-and-white or color seems connected to eyesight.
Quoted from the link you provided:

Equilibrioception is the perception of balance and is related to cavities containing fluid in the inner ear. There is some disagreement as to whether this also includes the sense of "direction" or orientation. However, as with depth perception earlier, it is generally regarded that "direction" is a post-sensory cognitive awareness.

[jackyyyy]

In the 1999 motion picture The Matrix, the character of Neo experiences déjà vu (though the experience somewhat differs: Neo sees a black cat go past two times consecutively). Trinity explains to Neo that "the déjà vu is usually a glitch in the Matrix. It happens when [the Matrix] changes something."

Déjà vécu
Usually translated 'already seen' or 'already lived through,' déjà vécu is described in a quotation from David Copperfield by Charles Dickens:


We have all some experience of a feeling, that comes over us occasionally, of what we are saying and doing having been said and done before, in a remote time - of our having been surrounded, dim ages ago, by the same faces, objects, and circumstances - of our knowing perfectly what will be said next, as if we suddenly remember it![1]
When most people speak of déjà vu, they are actually experiencing déjà vécu. Surveys have revealed that about one third of the population have had these experiences, more often (and perhaps more intense) in people between the ages of 15 and 25. The experience is usually related to a very banal event, but is so striking that it is remembered for years afterwards.
While Intuition is better understood, 'Premonition', 'The Third Eye' and 'Déjà Vu' are senses that so far defy scientific proof. For 'most' of us, they are not under our conscious control, they simply happen. I don't think there can be any doubt they should be considered seriously, but wonder if they consitute part of this 'secret sense' notion - we just don't know what they are. What I am conjecturing is, even if we don't know what they are, can we still base assumptions of them and use them - I don't want to wait for the scientists to work it out, I want to pick the right race-horse now. For example, I do not know what present someone is going to bring me for Christmas, but its a safe bet they will and I have a rough idea of what it will be based on information I have under my control. Sometimes, if I think hard enough, I can make that guess more accurate, and sometimes I am right. Now, while that might be called simply 'deduction', in the case of these 'extra-senses' there appears no information to support a deduction. Is it possible this information doesn't just come out of thin air, and it is actually resident somewhere?

[jackyyyy]

Jackyyyy,

As Doyle Lonigan asks in "The Sting," "Ya' follow?" likewise I, with Redford, follow your drift which is appealing.

However, you bring up DNA -- chemicals; that existence is chemically based or indelibly linked.

Now, Chekhov, albeit schooled as a physician, also albeit dying young from a stong-minded disease, did seek at many times a distancing from the physiological sense of existence.

While DNA and genetics have become the current most popular and near-idolized assertions, they can be seen as antipathetic to the word, Spirit. Any senses originating and deriving from Spirit, must be non-material, non-matter; non-DNAish, non-chemical.

Cutting this link with DNA does not cut the link with our humanity, health, natural experience, etc., but rather disposes of the negative side of DNA (which are many -- for half or more of people DNA is not kind, but vicious), and enables a spiritual sense to harmonize the physical senses.

Of course, such talk is stuff that Darwinists don't like to hear, but there is a lot of fun that they miss out on by pushing his agenda into every sliver in society.

I'm sure you didn't want to open such debate, so consider the above to be blather if it doesn't register. I'm outa here.Darwinists may or may not be right, Spiritualism might have an answer, I don't know. In any case, what is in common is, people want to know. I agree, the scientists can show chemicals can do x, but what they can't 'show' to general satisfaction is this 'extra' - so far. While I would not attempt to solve this and suddenly discover it, since smarter people than me haven't been able to put their finger on exactly what it is, I would like to know if we can tap into it somehow, and sufficiently, in order to increase that 'awareness'. Possibly, by increasing our awareness, we might be able to deduce what exactly it is. I think somtimes, the amount of energy we 'all' put into working out our existence should have solved this by now, but as we know, we don't know.

[PeterL]

Though I do not intend on correcting such a bright mind, such as yours, unnamable, but the sense of balance actually originates from a mechanism in the ear, related to hearing, deep within the inner ear. This also explains why when one has an ear infection of any kind, he/she may feel dizzy, off-balance, or frequently fall.
The sense of heat comes from unique neurons in the skin calls thermoreceptors, and the sense of pain originates from nociceptors, thus traveling from the localized site, ascends the spinal cord, and into the brain, where it gets interpreted as pain.

I was also going to agree with Unnameable, but you beat me to it. :) You are emphasizing his point that there are more than five senses. Balance is not hearing, although the apparatus is located in the same area, and each different sort of physical sensation is distinct, although they use the same pathways for communication.

At some point I saw a discussion of several different senses in addition to the traditional five. I don't have time now to search for more details, but I'm sure that there is substantial information on the internet.

A related question is about how many modes of communication humans use. I have found six or seven (depending on whether two are counted separately or together.

[amanda_isabel]

a sixth sense. it can be intuition, or the ability to see those from the underworld, or the undead, the power to see the future or the power of the mind to do things beyond normal, like lifting objects and, well, kinda like the stuff they do in Star Wars with all the mind control. i believe such things exist in everyone. everyone has a sixth sense waiting to be activated or something.

tell me, is there anyone here with an opened sixth sense? or anyone who knows someone who has an opened sixth sense?

[amanda_isabel]

A related question is about how many modes of communication humans use. I have found six or seven (depending on whether two are counted separately or together.

good question, peter.

how can a blind man sense if another is present, aside from hearing?

i think this is because we all radiate an aura, and, a blind person has learned to 'see' without seeing. and so i wonder, is this also an adaptive mechanism for those who are born with incomplete 5 senses?

[PeterL]

good question, peter.

how can a blind man sense if another is present, aside from hearing?

i think this is because we all radiate an aura, and, a blind person has learned to 'see' without seeing. and so i wonder, is this also an adaptive mechanism for those who are born with incomplete 5 senses?


I agree that there is something that might be called an aura. That is among the modes of sessing and communication that humans use. I don't think that that is an adaptation for people without sight. Only a few kinds of communication are done consciously; the rest are expressed and understood by biological processes or the subconscious mind.

[mono]

I was also going to agree with Unnameable, but you beat me to it. :) You are emphasizing his point that there are more than five senses. Balance is not hearing, although the apparatus is located in the same area, and each different sort of physical sensation is distinct, although they use the same pathways for communication.
Though I have no intention of 'flaunting' any knowledge, I feel compelled to say that I have undergone extensive and long studies of human biology, particularly that of human anatomy and physiology, histology, microbiology, and specializing in neurology (including the senses) and endocrinology.
It seems no coincidence that one's sense of balance and sense of hearing incorporate themselves in the same region of the human body - the inner ear. Just like in perceiving something heard, one senses balance through the movement, diffusion, and adjustment to gravity by the fluids within the inner ear, particularly the cochlea and semicircular canals, both of which eventually attach themselves to the same nerve, the vestibular cochlear nerve, subsequently leading to the brain.
Additionally, both hearing and the sense of balance sense through vibrations, placing the smallest and most sensitive bones of the body, the malleus, incus, and stapes. These vibrations lead to the same pathways, disrupting the fluids within the cochlea and three semicircular canals (one vertical, one horizontal, one diagnal).
Thus, by the same means of perception of balance and hearing, but interpreted differently in the temporal lobe and sensory cortex of the brain, this, I believe, makes the sense of balance and hearing nearly synonymous.

[PeterL]

Though I have no intention of 'flaunting' any knowledge, I feel compelled to say that I have undergone extensive and long studies of human biology, particularly that of human anatomy and physiology, histology, microbiology, and specializing in neurology (including the senses) and endocrinology.
It seems no coincidence that one's sense of balance and sense of hearing incorporate themselves in the same region of the human body - the inner ear. Just like in perceiving something heard, one senses balance through the movement, diffusion, and adjustment to gravity by the fluids within the inner ear, particularly the cochlea and semicircular canals, both of which eventually attach themselves to the same nerve, the vestibular cochlear nerve, subsequently leading to the brain.
Additionally, both hearing and the sense of balance sense through vibrations, placing the smallest and most sensitive bones of the body, the malleus, incus, and stapes. These vibrations lead to the same pathways, disrupting the fluids within the cochlea and three semicircular canals (one vertical, one horizontal, one diagnal).
Thus, by the same means of perception of balance and hearing, but interpreted differently in the temporal lobe and sensory cortex of the brain, this, I believe, makes the sense of balance and hearing nearly synonymous.

I understand what you are saying, but are sound and balance the same? I think not. The same equipment is used to do two different things. The same knife could be used to make a wood carving and to slit a throst. Does that mean that those two actions are "nearly synonymous"?

[jackyyyy]

"Prophet!" said I, "thing of evil--prophet still, if bird or devil!
By that heaven that bends above us--by that God we both adore--
Tell this soul with sorrow laden, if, within the distant Aidenn,
It shall clasp a sainted maiden, whom the angels name Lenore---
Clasp a rare and radiant maiden, whom the angels name Lenore?
Quoth the raven, "Nevermore."

The Raven by Edgar Allan Poe


sensory memory
Sensory memory is our ability to retain impressions of sensory information after the original stimulus has ceased.

One of the earliest investigations into this phenomenon was in 1740 by Johann Andreas Segner (1704 - 1777) the German physicist and mathematician. In an elegant experiment Segner attached a glowing coal to a cartwheel and rotated the wheel at increasing speed until an unbroken circle of light was perceived by the observer. He calculated that the glowing coal needed to make a complete circle in under 100ms to achieve this effect.

Sensory memory is still considered to operate within this approximate time frame (under 1 second and certainly no more than 2) and so can be seen to be very short lived. It is also characterised by being outside of conscious control (i.e. it happens automatically and unbidden). Despite retaining information for a very short period if time, it is not to be confused with short term memory (which typically lasts 10-15 seconds without rehearsal of the remembered material) and is so named to distinguish it from long term memory which can store information for as long as a lifetime.

http://www.answers.com/topic/sensory-memoryThere are different types of memory. The brain may or may not submit short term memory to LTM (long term memory), depends on what it is, its importance maybe. Unlike a computer's harddisk, which is manufactured and rigid in it's role, the human brain varies from person to person, as does its input and output senses. For example's sake, caching of information in a computer is similar to 'practice' in humans. Put simply, the more often a piece of information is requested, the more easily/faster that same information is made available. Practice = Importance. That explains for me, how practicing a 'sense' or 'combination of senses' can refine it and make it stronger.

Another type of information that I can class as a type of memory, and in general, is 'instinct'. We see this passing down effect from one generation to the next, and so on. Its effect is distributed, but also collective within humanity. To jump a little bit here, a feature of a 'seance' is people holding hands in a circle; I guess there are lots of methods, whatever got some results maybe. I don't know if clairvoyants, or Nostradamus for example, had to be close to humans to get some energy feedback, but they must have practiced particular senses or combinations. However, all this does not explain 'premonition' - how they can see into the future. Or, does it?

[jackyyyy]

a sixth sense. it can be intuition, or the ability to see those from the underworld, or the undead, the power to see the future or the power of the mind to do things beyond normal, like lifting objects and, well, kinda like the stuff they do in Star Wars with all the mind control. i believe such things exist in everyone. everyone has a sixth sense waiting to be activated or something.

tell me, is there anyone here with an opened sixth sense? or anyone who knows someone who has an opened sixth sense?I always thought there was just a 'sixth' sense beyond the five, and the sixth sense embraced everything beyond the first five. The point of classifying beyond the first five doesn't seem to make much sense when there could be 100 as byquist's post indicated, or when we can say there are an infinite number of possibilities.

I think I have a 'closed' sixth sense, and the other five are not far behind at times. I do know a 'clairvoyant' who has defied my gravity. I usually dismiss this type of thing, so I do not know very much about it, except this one time. I could not offer up a reason as to how they 'knew' something. A particular example spanned over 20 years, it was true. What kind of fluke was this, or was it auto-suggestion; I have a hard time rationalizing that, but then I could be just thick. I am always amazed when I read Nostradamus, and of course, we must be wary of information like this, so questioning the heck out of it is a good idea, eh. :nod:

[jackyyyy]

good question, peter.

how can a blind man sense if another is present, aside from hearing?

i think this is because we all radiate an aura, and, a blind person has learned to 'see' without seeing. and so i wonder, is this also an adaptive mechanism for those who are born with incomplete 5 senses?Bats have radar, do you think humans have a very limited radar that comes into use when practiced, gets stronger because of the need for it? Interesting that radar came from a bat's need to move around in the dark, which points again at nature's ability to reshape/combine those first five senses and turn them into something else, useful.

[The Unnamable]

this, I believe, makes the sense of balance and hearing nearly synonymous.
I wouldn’t want to argue with such an impressive list of ‘ologies’ but I agree with PeterL. I don’t really understand what you mean by ‘nearly synonymous’ in this context, anyway. Nor can I see the point you are making. My point, in case you missed it, is that there are already more than five senses and these are more than sufficiently amazing for me to ponder.


Bats have radar,
Bats use echolocation, the human equivalent of which is sonar not radar. While we are on the subject of bats, you should read up about the bat’s ear. Richard Dawkins picked it as one of his Seven Wonders of the World.

“An insect eating bat can chuckle at staggeringly fast speeds at such high pitch that if a perfect protective system had not been devised, the sounds it emits could damage its own ears. This problem is resolved by the creation of the stapedius muscle in the middle ear attached to three tiny bones, the malleus, the incus and the stapes, which are responsible for transmitting the sound waves to the internal ear. At each click the bat emits, this muscle pulls aside the stapes which touches the eardrum; hence, no sound of the click is directly transmitted to the internal ear. The frequency of clicks and such momentary breaks of contact is a make and break system which never fails despite its high frequency. Such bats are known to emit these sounds more than 200 times per second and this muscle can keep pace with these rapid variations. Yet when the sound strikes against a solid object and returns to the ear, the contact of the bone with the drum is immediately renewed so that no echo is ever missed by the bat during the innumerable intervals of disconnection. How it can perform this magic beats comprehension. Imagine, 200 sounds per second with not a ripple transmitted to the internal ear and yet it connects 200 times again in order not to miss a single echo of the returning sound signals. The bat's ear does it in an amazingly complex world of sound and echoes which are delivered in different pitches with different frequencies.”

I find that more amazing than any idea of some supernatural sixth sense.

[jackyyyy]

"How it can perform this magic beats comprehension. Imagine, 200 sounds per second with not a ripple transmitted to the internal ear and yet it connects 200 times again in order not to miss a single echo of the returning sound signals. The bat's ear does it in an amazingly complex world of sound and echoes which are delivered in different pitches with different frequencies.”

I find that more amazing than any idea of some supernatural sixth sense.That is surprising, and I noted the author described it as 'magic'. We just don't know what it is but people use words like magic, mysterious, ghostly, supernatural. Once the magician has revealed his trick, its nolonger called magic. Looking at "Edgar Allan Poe", I don't know if he believed in ghosts and prophets or not, but he did assume something - when he was writing at least.

[Isagel]

We have five senses in which we glory and which we recognize and celebrate, senses that constitute the sensible world for us. But there are other senses - secret senses, sixth senses, if you will - equally vital, but unrecognized, and unlauded.
Oliver Sacks

I come across this quote which seems sensible enough, and made me tick off five senses to be sure I remembered what they were. I had a problem when it continued, "..there are other senses - secret senses..". Sounds like an area of general interest to everyone:

What is a secret sense?

I think it might be good to point out that that Oliver Sacks is a neurologist that has written books on neuropsychology. I do not remember where exactly that quote is from, but it might be from "The man who mistook his wife for a hat. " So the quote is not a religious statement. Of course anyone is free to believe in a sixth sense of the paranormal kind, but that is not what Sacks is referring to.

Sacks is probably using the word secret for the poetic value, his writings are about processes that we normally do not recognize but become aware of when they are gone.


Mono, although much of what you write is of course correct what Sacks means is amongst other things balance and prioperception - the sense of the position of our bodies. (small info on: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prioperception) Balance is starting to be counted as a sense of it´s own in neurology. Although is seems to be a summary of various senses or influenced by other senses (like taste is influenced by smell) there have been some that argues that it might be a sense of its own. just to take a small exemple people that have a lost parts of their balance might bnot at all have damaged hearing, and people that can´t hear doesn´t have to have less balance. The latest research I read on the subject stresses the sense of touch, although sight has been very popular contribution - for exemple it explains why you get dizzy in the amusement parks where they have rooms with walls that circles while you stand still (I hope you udnerstand what i am referring to?) . The ear does not move, and is therefor not involved. But still we feel dizzy and might loose our sense of balance. Likewise if a small pressure of air is directed at our finger tip we can balance better, standing on one leg. Anyone having tried balancing and just barely touching a friend knows this, but it has just gotten interesting in research. The idea is that it is the slight sense of touch, more than any kind of support that helps us keep our balance. The pressure of air is no support, but it helps the body find stability on it´s own.

Sorry about the rant. I hope you find this as interesting as I do, Mono.
I might be able to find some references to this, I got them from swedish research journals but I think the research is done in USA.

And yes, Unnamable, I too find these things much more fantastic than any paranormal sense.

[The Unnamable]

Once the magician has revealed his trick, its nolonger called magic.
I disagree in the case of the bat’s ear. Even though I understand what happens and how it happens, I still find it staggering. It would certainly go on my list of Seven Wonders. There’s a thread for anyone itching to post.

[PeterL]

Bats have radar, do you think humans have a very limited radar that comes into use when practiced, gets stronger because of the need for it? Interesting that radar came from a bat's need to move around in the dark, which points again at nature's ability to reshape/combine those first five senses and turn them into something else, useful.

Bats use high frequency sound, not radio frequency electromagnetic radiation.

[The Unnamable]

Is there an echo in here? :D

[jackyyyy]

I disagree in the case of the bat’s ear. Even though I understand what happens and how it happens, I still find it staggering. It would certainly go on my list of Seven Wonders. There’s a thread for anyone itching to post.Okay guys, string me up, I realize its not radar - my head was into Lancaster Bombers. I will do my best to use the correct words. :p You see, while I agree with you that it is staggering, amazing, etc, the point I am making is, things like this, that have not yet been explained are still called 'supernatural', simply because people do not understand it, and pointing out that everything we do not understand might wait an answer, rather than being declared 'supernatural', or 'magic'. Richard Dawkins describes it, great, everyone now becomes educated to the fact, its not 'supernatural' anymore.

Do you think humans have the same thing bats have, just way less developed? :brow:

[PeterL]

Do you think humans have the same thing bats have, just way less developed? :brow:

It is possible that humans subconsciously are aware of high frequency sound, but there is no evidence of that. Infants can hear frequencies up to about 24,000 hertz (the range of dog whistles), but bats use frequencies up to 100,000. It is also possible that extremely low frequency waves are felt. Actually, it is known that people can sometimes feel pressure waves that can't be heard. Whether those waves carry information is something that I don't know.

[jackyyyy]

It is possible that humans subconsciously are aware of high frequency sound, but there is no evidence of that. Infants can hear frequencies up to about 24,000 hertz (the range of dog whistles), but bats use frequencies up to 100,000. It is also possible that extremely low frequency waves are felt. Actually, it is known that people can sometimes feel pressure waves that can't be heard. Whether those waves carry information is something that I don't know.Those sound waves would hit both the dog and the human. When, as you showed, "a dog can hear a whistle that a human ear may not hear", it does not mean the human did not receive it, only that the human did not acknowledge/respond to it. So, whether we recognize it as 'information' or not, it may go somewhere into us (memory), and in this example its useful to a bat that uses it immediately.

Stones also absorb/collect a memory of sort too.

[PeterL]

Those sound waves would hit both the dog and the human. When, as you showed, "a dog can hear a whistle that a human ear may not hear", it does not mean the human did not receive it, only that the human did not acknowledge/respond to it. So, whether we recognize it as 'information' or not, it may go somewhere into us (memory), and in this example its useful to a bat that uses it immediately.

Stones also absorb/collect a memory of sort too.

It is true that the high frequency sound hits human bodies, but humans don't have apparatus for converting the sound waves into something that our brains can work with. The structures that convert sound into neural signals are tiny hairs in the inner ear. At birth there are sets of hairs that can convert sound up to about 22,000 hertz. The high frequencies are processed with the finest hairs, which are also the ones that are most fragile. Over time those tiny hairs break and are not replaced, so the upper ranges are no longer available for conversion into neural pulses. Or, to be more succinct, the highest frequencies don't get into the brain at all; they are not processed or remembered.

[jackyyyy]

It is true that the high frequency sound hits human bodies, but humans don't have apparatus for converting the sound waves into something that our brains can work with. The structures that convert sound into neural signals are tiny hairs in the inner ear. At birth there are sets of hairs that can convert sound up to about 22,000 hertz. The high frequencies are processed with the finest hairs, which are also the ones that are most fragile. Over time those tiny hairs break and are not replaced, so the upper ranges are no longer available for conversion into neural pulses. Or, to be more succinct, the highest frequencies don't get into the brain at all; they are not processed or remembered.I am only building a supposition. Lets say, the human does only receive at lower frequencies, remembers and does not utilize everything. Where I am going is, there is a lot of redundant information, regardless, like background noise. It sits there in memory.

[PeterL]

I am only building a supposition. Lets say, the human does only receive at lower frequencies, remembers and does not utilize everything. Where I am going is, there is a lot of redundant information, regardless, like background noise. It sits there in memory.

You could be right. There is no way to know for sure with the present state of technology, but there is no sign that extremely high or the very lowest frequencies of sound are introduced into any neural pathway. New evidence may emerge that will make that datum obsolete.

[jackyyyy]

All good poetry is the spontaneous overflow of powerful feelings: it takes its origin from emotion recollected in tranquillity.

- William Wordsworth

[The Unnamable]

All good poetry is the spontaneous overflow of powerful feelings: it takes its origin from emotion recollected in tranquillity.

- William Wordsworth
I’m not sure why you posted this but I think you have missed the important bit that Wordsworth wrote before the part you quote:

“For all good poetry is the spontaneous overflow of powerful feelings: but though this be true, Poems to which any value can be attached, were never produced on any variety of subjects but by a man, who being possessed of more than usual organic sensibility, had also thought long and deeply.”

[jackyyyy]

I’m not sure why you posted this but I think you have missed the important bit that Wordsworth wrote before the part you quote:

“For all good poetry is the spontaneous overflow of powerful feelings: but though this be true, Poems to which any value can be attached, were never produced on any variety of subjects but by a man, who being possessed of more than usual organic sensibility, had also thought long and deeply.”Thanks for that. I found the clip and felt it aligned the thread - for me at least. Your help has reinforced it. I like how he writes, "possessed". :nod: