The characters in War and Peace

[samah]

Theres no doubt that War and Peace is one of the greatest novels had ever written in the world literature ,because -I think -that beside the importance of the historical events included in the novel , its riched with such a marvelous characters . I read a lot of novels in my life but none of them touched me the way that War and Peace did .
Its all about the way that Tolostoy wrote and well described his characters like that they are not his, just like he is telling a story he didnt write ,they are so real they could be anyone of us or anyone we know,
we dont see that fairy tale hero in tolostoy stories the way we do in some french and english stories , because in this novel we see every character has its own thoughts , deeds and mistakes , all the good things and the bad things , and by the way I just want to say that my favourite character was Prince Andrey Bolkonsky I really felt in love with him and I almost cried when I read about his death . I dont speak russian but I hope to learn it someday and I'm really interested in the russian literature , I read some of the russian novels but I plan to read them all so If anyone can send me the names of all the russian novels and writers , I'll be so grateful .
samah

[Sarka]

I totally agree with you. And I totally cried when Bolkonsky died, too, the first time I read the novel! Dude. Though I read a stupid abridged version the first time; but now I'm reading the whole thing (I haven't gotten to that point yet). It rocks, I must say.
I'm definitely fascinated with Russian literature–actually I'm just sort of fascinated with Russia in general, and I don't know why because I'm not Russian (that I know of).
I don't know about novels, but the short stories by Chekhov are really, really good. They're a little ironic and depressing, (I happen to like that sort of thing) but they make some interesting points about people and society. I've only read a few; "Ward No. 6" (which is almost scary at points), "The Darling" (which is just kind of sad) and "The Ninny" (which I don't think is on this site but is actually quite funny so if you can find it do check it out). Stuff by Gogol is pretty good too, especially "The Nose." That's kind of all I know–I hope it was helpful...

[arrrvee]

about other russian works and authors, ivan turgenev is really good. read first love. it's a novella. if you like short stories, you can't go wrong with chekhov. i would suggest reading (these are my personal favorites by the way) gooseberries, the bishop, love and misery.

before i go, here's a small something from another russian writer, vsevolod michilovich garshin

life

a young disciple asked of that saintly sage, jiaffar:
"master, what is life?"
in silence the master turned back the soiled sleeve of his sackcloth burnoose and showed the young disciple a revolting sore that was eating into his arm.
and at the very same time, the nightinggales were trilling in full song and all seville was fragrant with the sweet odor of roses.

[Idril]

I would second the mentions of Turgenev and Gogol, there's also Pushkin, Lermontov and from the 20th century, there's Bulgakov, which I highly recommend and Pasternak, those are just the ones I've read but there's so much more out there for me to discover.

[Evi]

If we want to have a discussion about Russian literaure, so then please read Puschkin! All the others were his followers. Leo Tolstoy is great both with Anna Karennina and War and Piece. Dostoyefsky is also great with the Idiot ( just my opinion) And genarally read Russian literature. It is great!

Evi

[olichka]

;) my favourite character was Prince Andrey Bolkonsky I really felt in love with him and I almost cried when I read about his death . samah:bawling:

Why did you fall in love with him ? Was is partly because he was so handsome ? I also just totally fell in love with him when I read the book for the first time ( at 13) : I thought that the combination of his looks, high intelligence and mysteriousness made him very sexy !

Did you ever wonder how his marriage to Natasha would have turned out had he lived ? I think he would have kept her in check, and she would not have become the slob that she became while married to Pierre. I mean, can't you be a loving wife and mother and still maintain your dignity and talents ? I was completely turned off by her in the Epilogue.

By the way, does anybody know if the sequel to "War and Peace" called " Pierre and Natasha " and written by a certain Staroy ever come out in print ? I'd be fascinated to read it !!!

[Yelena]

Has anyone read Marina Tsvetaeva's poetry? She's another great 20th century RUssian poet. I highly recommend you guys read her poems and Anna Akhmatova's.

[lisahead]

I LOVE Russian literature and Russia ! I'm not Russian, but must have a Russian soul.
I've read War and Peace foru times- its always a new bood to me. DOes aanyone know what really killed Helena, Pierre's wife? How horrifying was the "execution" of Veruschagin?
What do you think Princess Maria really looked like?
Sonia is a fascinating character- so is Dolokhov.

[lisahead]

Does anyone want to talk about "The Master and Margarita"?

[bazarov]

I LOVE Russian literature and Russia ! I'm not Russian, but must have a Russian soul.

Just like me!
Helen died from some sudden and mysterious illness, but there were rumors she died from botched attempt at abortion.

[lisahead]

That's what I thought about Helena.
Your quote is from Notes from the Underground, right?
I just got a Dostoevsky finger puppet magnet ,and a Tolstoy one- the Dostoyesky one looks like your pic.
Did you read the biography his wife Anna wrote?
I would love to go to St Petersburg.
What did you think of Grushenka?
At the end of BK, when that little boy dies, my heart breaks. What a story. I thought it was funny when Grushenka tricked Katerina Ivanovna .

[bazarov]

Your quote is from Notes from the Underground, right?
Yes.:)

I just got a Dostoevsky finger puppet magnet ,and a Tolstoy one- the Dostoyesky one looks like your pic.
Did you read the biography his wife Anna wrote?
No, not yet. And I am not sure from where would I get it?

I would love to go to St Petersburg.
I am planing to visit Moscow this summer:wave: :banana:

What did you think of Grushenka?
At the end of BK, when that little boy dies, my heart breaks. What a story. I thought it was funny when Grushenka tricked Katerina Ivanovna .
Wrong thread:p

And Maria was probably very ugly or not that pretty...How can somebody be in love with someone he never saw? This is not a fairy tale, no one of you saw Andrey's picture so can you say he was very handsome?

[olichka]

How can somebody be in love with someone he never saw? This is not a fairy tale, no one of you saw Andrey's picture so can you say he was very handsome?


Believe me, you can fall in love with someone you've never seen. And as to Andrey's handsomeness, Tolstoy himself described him at that first party at Scherer's as being " very handsome " !

[gems81]

Believe me, you can fall in love with someone you've never seen. And as to Andrey's handsomeness, Tolstoy himself described him at that first party at Scherer's as being " very handsome " !

I fell in love with Andrey when I read the book and he was my favorite literature character.
I cried when he died and I thought his marriage with Natasha would have been the best epiolgue. I didn't like it very much.

[olichka]

I fell in love with Andrey when I read the book and he was my favorite literature character.
I cried when he died and I thought his marriage with Natasha would have been the best epiolgue. I didn't like it very much.


Hear, hear ! I agree with you 100 % !

[bazarov]

:lol: :lol: :lol: I don't believe this!!!:lol: :lol: :lol: Well, I am in love with Maria Sharapova!!!:lol: :lol:

[Alley]

Interestingly enough… I’m not very into Andrey. I just never fell for him.

Now I do have an unhealthy attraction to Dolokhov but even putting aside my bad-boy attraction I like Pierre and Nicolai Rostov a lot more than Andrey.

[samah]

:bawling:

Why did you fall in love with him ? Was is partly because he was so handsome ? I also just totally fell in love with him when I read the book for the first time ( at 13) : I thought that the combination of his looks, high intelligence and mysteriousness made him very sexy !

Did you ever wonder how his marriage to Natasha would have turned out had he lived ? I think he would have kept her in check, and she would not have become the slob that she became while married to Pierre. I mean, can't you be a loving wife and mother and still maintain your dignity and talents ? I was completely turned off by her in the Epilogue.

By the way, does anybody know if the sequel to "War and Peace" called " Pierre and Natasha " and written by a certain Staroy ever come out in print ? I'd be fascinated to read it !!!

yes the combination of his looks and all that intelligence and all his perfect ideas, was very attractive to me beside I thought he was mysterious ,real , decent, and a quite gentleman and about Natasha I didnt like her very much I think she represented tolstoy's opinion about the ideal woman , I dont think he was a big fan of intelligent talented women outside their families, but I'm not sure!

[olichka]

yes the combination of his looks and all that intelligence and all his perfect ideas, was very attractive to me beside I thought he was mysterious ,real , decent, and a quite gentleman and about Natasha I didnt like her very much I think she represented tolstoy's opinion about the ideal woman , I dont think he was a big fan of intelligent talented women outside their families, but I'm not sure!


That's true, Tolstoy thought that a woman's place was in the home, raising children and adoring her husband. He actually referred to a woman's intelligence as " a tiny enterprise " --- it's near the end of " W.and P. " proper, where Natasha is listening adoringly to Pierre's account of his troubles during the war. Because she's admiring him, Tolstoy refers to her as a " real woman ".

[samah]

[/B]


That's true, Tolstoy thought that a woman's place was in the home, raising children and adoring her husband. He actually referred to a woman's intelligence as " a tiny enterprise " --- it's near the end of " W.and P. " proper, where Natasha is listening adoringly to Pierre's account of his troubles during the war. Because she's admiring him, Tolstoy refers to her as a " real woman ".

Exactly! this is why I didnt like any of the female characters in War and Peace ,Helene could have been an interesting character but she wasnt smart enough! even in Tolostoys Anna Karenina ,I felt that he was punishing her for leaving her husband like it was the biggest mistake any woman could make.

[Agatha]

Exactly! this is why I didnt like any of the female characters in War and Peace ,Helene could have been an interesting character but she wasnt smart enough! even in Tolostoys Anna Karenina ,I felt that he was punishing her for leaving her husband like it was the biggest mistake any woman could make.
I agree with you. I also didn't like Tolstoy's women- especially I didn't like Anna Karenina. At the beginning of book, I like her, but then she started irritating me so much... I also didn't like Natasha- I just can't forgive her what she has done to Andrei... But I just adore male characters- in War and Peace- Andrei and Pierre.They are one of my favourite heros in literature. And while I was reading book, I was wondering: why nowadays there are no guys like them...

[samah]

I agree with you. I also didn't like Tolstoy's women- especially I didn't like Anna Karenina. At the beginning of book, I like her, but then she started irritating me so much... I also didn't like Natasha- I just can't forgive her what she has done to Andrei... But I just adore male characters- in War and Peace- Andrei and Pierre.They are one of my favourite heros in literature. And while I was reading book, I was wondering: why nowadays there are no guys like them...


Actually I think that these men are extinct now :D

[Swanduckling]

Actually I think that these men are extinct now :D


I have a joke to illustrate your very good point ( a Russian friend of mine has told me it) :

Natasha is dancing with Pierre and notices that he has dirt on his boots. Airily she points it out to him : " Pierre, you have dirt on your boots ! ". Pierre leaves, goes into another room and, feeling dishonoured, shoots himself.


Next, Natasha is dancing with Prince Andrey. The same situation occurs. Prince Andrey leaves the room and shoots himself out of shame.


Lastly, Natasha dances with a young and simple army officer. She points out the dirt on his boots. He laughs it off and says : " It's not dirt -- it's cow " mud " that I stepped in when I walked thru cow shed this morning. Don't worry --- as soon as it dries, it will drop off all by itself ! ". ;)

[samah]

I have a joke to illustrate your very good point ( a Russian friend of mine has told me it) :

Natasha is dancing with Pierre and notices that he has dirt on his boots. Airily she points it out to him : " Pierre, you have dirt on your boots ! ". Pierre leaves, goes into another room and, feeling dishonoured, shoots himself.


Next, Natasha is dancing with Prince Andrey. The same situation occurs. Prince Andrey leaves the room and shoots himself out of shame.


Lastly, Natasha dances with a young and simple army officer. She points out the dirt on his boots. He laughs it off and says : " It's not dirt -- it's cow " mud " that I stepped in when I walked thru cow shed this morning. Don't worry --- as soon as it dries, it will drop off all by itself ! ". ;)

Oh that was funny Swanduckling!:lol: I guess that all the men we know are like the simple army officer.

[Swanduckling]

Oh that was funny Swanduckling!:lol: I guess that all the men we know are like the simple army officer.


I'm glad you liked my joke, Samah ! You're right, most men we know are more like the simple army officer, rather than the complicated, sensitive Andrey and Pierre.


And here's another one : Beautiful lake. Graceful and gorgeous swans floating by. Beautiful Natasha and army officer Rzhevsky walking by. Natasha turns to him and asks him rapturously :

" Lieutenant Rzhevsky, could you love someone the way these swans do ? "

Scandalized, Lieutenant Rzhevsky shoots back : " What ?!! Right there ... , in the ice-cold water ?!! " :lol:

[samah]

I'm glad you liked my joke, Samah ! You're right, most men we know are more like the simple army officer, rather than the complicated, sensitive Andrey and Pierre.


And here's another one : Beautiful lake. Gracious and gorgeous swans floating by. Beautiful Natasha and army officer Rzhevsky walking by. Natasha asks him rapturously :

" Lieutenant Rzhevsky, could you love someone the way these swans do ? "

Scandalized, Lieutenant Rzhevsky shoots back : " What ? While swimming in this ice-cold water ? " ;)

WOW that was strong one:lol: but I have to say that Lieutenant Rzhevsky seems the right man for Natasha after all!:yawnb:

[Swanduckling]

Hi, Samah !

I'm glad you're enjoying my jokes. If you want to read more about officer Rzhevsky, you can find the jokes about him on the Internet. Look under " Poruchik Rzhevsky ". They're a little " risque " to include here on the forum. :flare:

You're right, he seems to be a better match for Natasha than Andrey or Pierre --- I guess, he has the intelligence and the refinement of beastly Anatol Kuragin with whom Natasha was so eager to elope !

As well, regarding who is a better match for Natasha, there was a discussion about it on the "original version of War and peace" thread, I think. Don't know, if you have noticed it !

Also, I started a thread about posting jokes about Tolstoy ( and other Russian writers, if you wish ). Perhaps you can make some contributions ?

[olichka]

I'm glad you liked my joke, Samah ! You're right, most men we know are more like the simple army officer, rather than the complicated, sensitive Andrey and Pierre.


And here's another one : Beautiful lake. Graceful and gorgeous swans floating by. Beautiful Natasha and army officer Rzhevsky walking by. Natasha turns to him and asks him rapturously :

" Lieutenant Rzhevsky, could you love someone the way these swans do ? "

Scandalized, Lieutenant Rzhevsky shoots back : " What ?!! Right there ... , in the ice-cold water ?!! " :lol:



Swanduckling, your saucy jokes are certainly a great way to illustrate some of "W. and P." characters. They certainly hit the nail on the head !

[Belka]

I have a joke to illustrate your very good point ( a Russian friend of mine has told me it) :

Natasha is dancing with Pierre and notices that he has dirt on his boots. Airily she points it out to him : " Pierre, you have dirt on your boots ! ". Pierre leaves, goes into another room and, feeling dishonoured, shoots himself.


Next, Natasha is dancing with Prince Andrey. The same situation occurs. Prince Andrey leaves the room and shoots himself out of shame.


Lastly, Natasha dances with a young and simple army officer. She points out the dirt on his boots. He laughs it off and says : " It's not dirt -- it's cow " mud " that I stepped in when I walked thru cow shed this morning. Don't worry --- as soon as it dries, it will drop off all by itself ! ". ;)



What and amusing thread ! That's exactly what we need --- some humour on the forum to liven things up ! :lol:

[samah]

OK Swanduckling! I'll try to find your thread because just like what Belka said we need more humor here espacially when it comes to Tolostoy because I dont think ha had any.

[WildCityWoman]

Andrei's somebody I didn't like much when I started the book, but now I'm desperately in love with him (as a character, of course).

I didn't like Pierre either - but now I like him - he's a bumbling fool at times, but he is human.

I don't like The Emperor much - he gets far too much attention, that man.

Helene, I consider to be a first-class slut - no - that's not right to say that - she's a low-class slut.

I thought I was going to like her.

I like the way Natasha's character grows as the story progresses - right now, I'm exasperated with her - how she naively fell for that idiot Anatole. She was lucky to have been plucked from that one.

Dolokhov amazed me when he tried to stop Anatole from going through with it - he was actually 'thinking' about the consequences of such a thing, not just his own enjoyment.

Still, these two - along with Helene - the three - they belong to 'the bad-guys club'.

[WildCityWoman]

And of the father's - Vasily? No wonder his kids are so bad!

Old Bolkonsky? Arrrrrgh! That man! Impossible!

Ilya Rostov - silly man! He's like his daughter, Natasha - just doesn't want to face reality.

My favourite fella in the whole story (so far - I'm in the middle of Book 8) is the 'Uncle'. I think he's a marvelous man.

[Ruslan]

Exactly! this is why I didnt like any of the female characters in War and Peace ,Helene could have been an interesting character but she wasnt smart enough! even in Tolostoys Anna Karenina ,I felt that he was punishing her for leaving her husband like it was the biggest mistake any woman could make.
I read long time ago, almost 2 years back, but I remember I fell in love with Natalya. Such pure kindness, feminine type of a woman. I tend to put much weight on genuineness and emotional integrity of characters. Amazing!

[samah]

I read long time ago, almost 2 years back, but I remember I fell in love with Natalya. Such pure kindness, feminine type of a woman. I tend to put much weight on genuineness and emotional integrity of characters. Amazing!

Really? I thought she was a silly girl .

[bazarov]

Agree with Samah, Andrey really should slap her after affair with Anatol.

[Ruslan]

Agree with Samah, Andrey really should slap her after affair with Anatol.

But she is sincere and deeply regrets her momentary slip for Anatoly later. Yes she might do wrong sometimes, isn't that smart and acts naive sometimes, but she doesn't have selfish motives (i think) and that's a perfect friend and wife to have. Her character is not spoiled by money, fame, or other things. And she grows wiser with time. Are there Natasha's nowadays?

[samah]

Hello Bazarov my old friend its been a long time, How do you do? Fine I hope.
and dear Ruslan about Natasha of course she has good qualities but I still think that she is a superficial woman and doesnt deserve a man like Andrey .

[bazarov]

But she is sincere and deeply regrets her momentary slip for Anatoly later. Yes she might do wrong sometimes, isn't that smart and acts naive sometimes, but she doesn't have selfish motives (i think) and that's a perfect friend and wife to have. Her character is not spoiled by money, fame, or other things. And she grows wiser with time. Are there Natasha's nowadays?

Later is sometimes too late. She escaped (tried) with some, if that's not selfish I don't know what is; and rejected Andrey.
I hope there are no Natasha's today because I don't won't nobody to deal with what Andrey had to - luckily, he didn't care too much for some things.
If that happened to you, would her merits be enough for you to just get over it like it didn't happen?

[Ruslan]

Later is sometimes too late. She escaped (tried) with some, if that's not selfish I don't know what is; and rejected Andrey.
I hope there are no Natasha's today because I don't won't nobody to deal with what Andrey had to - luckily, he didn't care too much for some things.
If that happened to you, would her merits be enough for you to just get over it like it didn't happen?

@bazarov
Well, now that you showed Natasha from this perspective...
And to answer your question -- probably not. It would make me doubt the seriousness of commitment to me as a wife, if i were at Andrey's spot.
However, I still think Natasha is kind in her heart and not selfish. She is like David from the Bible who wasn't aware of the sin he was committed by killing Bershaba's husband. As soon as the prophet pointed out to him what he did was wrong David deeply regretted his deeds. I guess Natalya was acting on the spree of the moment, not realizing her actions were really selfish. In that respect she is not excusable because what she did was wrong, but she can't be blamed however because she was incapable to think rationally (either because of infatuation and chemistry, or the lack to think rationally as her quality).
@samah So yes, I now see that she is superficial.
(I would still like to be friends with her, but probably not have as a wife. :))
Do you view her similarly?

[bazarov]

@bazarov
She is like David from the Bible who wasn't aware of the sin he was committed by killing Bershaba's husband. As soon as the prophet pointed out to him what he did was wrong David deeply regretted his deeds. I guess Natalya was acting on the spree of the moment, not realizing her actions were really selfish. In that respect she is not excusable because what she did was wrong, but she can't be blamed however because she was incapable to think rationally (either because of infatuation and chemistry, or the lack to think rationally as her quality).


As far as I remember, David was aware what was he doing; but he forgot that God sees everything so he send him Nathan. Then David started to regret for his acts, not before that.
Lack of someones possibility to think rationally doesn't allows us to say that that person is not guilty (like Raskolnikov or Mitya). We have every right to blame her, but it's your choice whether you will forgive her or not.

[victorianfan]

Now I do have an unhealthy attraction to Dolokhov

:iagree: I was so mad at Sonia for picking up Nikolai instead of Dolokhov.
I loved that chapter when he almost ruined him at cards.:lol:

[victorianfan]

I also didn't like Natasha- I just can't forgive her what she has done to Andrei...

It seems that you forgot how old was Natasha when that happened!

I think the real "villain" here was actually the old Prince Bolkonsky who forbid his son to marry Natasha until a year has passed.

If you could remember, Natasha pleased Andrei not to go, she was very lonely and longing and after all love does blur after time. Beside, Anatol was handsome too, very persuasive. He wanted her and Andrei had gone, Andrei's father was unpolite to her. When she visited him he came to see her in his nighty.
So summing all of this, really, who could blame her!
Except, rightous Prince Andrei, of course.:wink5: