The Sciences

[Rotty1021]

Does anybody else on the forums think that the sciences are dry, boring, and esoteric in the common world? I think so. My goal in life is to study human beings on a spiritual and intellectual level, and the only way to do this is to study the fine arts, humanities, and social sciences.

I was in biology class today doing a lab on the cells of plants, thinking to myself, "What's the point of this?" I realize that science is important, but as a humanistic person with interests in the arts and society, I find this stuff boring and dry. What do you think?

[ihrocks]

To put it politely, I think you're wrong. To even attempt to reach an understanding of "Life, the Universe, and Everything," one can exclude neither science nor the humanities. Eventually you'll find, the lines blur. In the microcosmic and macrocosmic especially, the studies are one and the same, only the approaches you take to get there are different. How can you study the inspiration poets find in the stars without that leading to a study of stars, and having studied the stars, the final questions come down to who made the stars and why? That is perhaps oversimplifying, but I think you'll find it's true.

ihrocks

[Rotty1021]

Sorry, I don't buy it. I highly doubt that when scholars take into consideration as to how a poet used a star in his work, that they're going to be curious in the anatomy of the star, how it was born, etc. Poetry and the hard science of astronomy don't mix.

However, a study of the physical characteristics of a star as seen from Earth without a microscope can definitely be put side by side with your poetry example, but this not a study of the sciences.

And just to go a bit furthur, using a simple example, the study of biochemistry has nothing to do with John Steinbeck's portrayal of the Great Depression in his novels. Science and the humanities, in my opinion, do not mix.

I'm not saying that you're opinion is wrong, but there are many people out there that agree with my sentiments. ;)

[AbdoRinbo]

Sorry, I don't buy it. I highly doubt that when scholars take into consideration as to how a poet used a star in his work, that they're going to be curious in the anatomy of the star, how it was born, etc. Poetry and the hard science of astronomy don't mix.

Yet, when Greek Poets referred to the Human Mind, an entire school of thought emerged spear-heading primitive psychology (among them, Aristotle). Try reading Calvino or Vonnegut, or even Pynchon if you're totally convinced that Science and Literature are mutually exclusive; all of these authors started out as students of Science and Mathematics. The final result is amazing. Science and Literature make a beautiful twosome.


And just to go a bit furthur, using a simple example, the study of biochemistry has nothing to do with John Steinbeck's portrayal of the Great Depression in his novels. Science and the humanities, in my opinion, do not mix.

In that case, since George Orwell's 1984 has nothing to do with Lord Byron's Childe Harold Pilgrimage, it becomes a total waste according to that standard. Awfully subjective, huh? You obviously don't care much for numbers and scientific theories, which is fine. A high school Biology class isn't going to instill much fascination in a student who sees it as nothing more than a daily routine dittos and pop-quizzes. But believe me, there is just as much (if not more) to be gained from understanding the Universe scientifically than there is from pondering the Human Imagination. Some of the Quantum theories that have been developed over the past century are infinitely more far-fetched than any work of fiction.


I'm not saying that you're opinion is wrong, but there are many people out there that agree with my sentiments. ;)

ihrocks was right, in the end Science and Literature will always meet back on the other side. ;)

[Rotty1021]

You obviously don't care much for numbers and scientific theories, which is fine.

You've got that right. And I believe that this feeling made me start this whole thread, but now I've made an intellectual advancement and have realized that humanites and science are closer than I thought.

I still abhor math and science, though. Ihrocks and Abdo, do you guys care for math and science?

[AbdoRinbo]

It depends, both can be tedious and dry . . . but the theories are very captivating. ;)

[KLO]

One of my favorite scientists, Edward O. Wilson, wrote the following in a book called Consilience: The Unity of Knowledge in 1999. For me, it sums up the reality and importance of seeing the real relationships between science and the humanities.

"Most issues that vex humanity daily...cannot be solved without integrating knowledge from the natural sciences with that of the social sciences and humanities. Only fluency across the boundaries will provide a clear view of the world as it really is, not as seen through the lens of ideologies and religious dogmas or commanded by myopic response to immediate need."

[Admin]

Science is awesome for one reason: Discovery.

The thrill of discovery is something that cannot be replicated. I have the pleasure of being involved in some actual genetics research while I was in college and was part of a very minor discovery and yet it is one of my proudest moments.

Learning about cells or something in highschool might not be too fun, but the bleeding edge of science is very exciting if you ever get there.

[AbdoRinbo]

Nowadays there are even equations for measuring the volume of clouds. That's different than using physics experiement to take measurements, it's purely mathematical. Strange, huh? What's even more amazing is that a cloud isn't even a geometric shape, so you'd think Geometry had to've been reinvented or something. Actually, the mathematicians who figured it out were rather ingenious: their solution was to fill the cloud with theoretical geometric shapes, usually pyramids, and gradually reduce their size as they moved toward the edge, each pyramid becoming smaller and smaller. Eventually the pyramids at the very edge of the cloud's border would become infinitely small; at that point it was simply a matter of stopping at a decisively practical point and accepting a very close approximation.

They call it Fractal Geometry (because of the use of fractals like the pyramids), and it has proven a few strange truths about our existence. I think the strangest has got to be the theory of dimension. I'd like to think that I'm a fully functioning, three-dimensional being, but the fact is, I live in a world that is only about 2.4 dimensions. When you compare this to Quantum Physics, which says that we're two-dimensional----we just appear three-dimensional like a hologram----then I guess it's not so bad after all. Regardless, we'd only be able to understand the third dimension if we were in the fourth. There's also a fifth dimension and a sixth, in fact, there are 12 dimensions that have been mathematically proven, but we don't have any way of describing them, they are hidden in the 'strings' that Quantum physicists believe compose the substance that sub-atomic particles are made of. This is a branch of Quantum Physics known as String Theory, and it's unbelievably complex. If artists could create literature as intricate and organic as the theories scientists have crafted, I would forget about everything Science ever taught me. But the fact is, there's so much Literature can't offer, and this is true for Science as well; in the end, I look to both for answers.

[Jay]

Hey Abdo, not that I'm some great maths geek, but I like the fractal theories as well (and don't ask for more details as it was almost ages ago I read something fractal-related, I just remember I liked the theories a lot and found them kinda functioning). I'd say that science and humanities are two sides of the same coin, it's like black/white thing. Without science there wouldn't be much humanities and vice versa...

[AbdoRinbo]

:D Once again you're dead on, Jay.

[Koa]

Well I'm with Rotty... I respect some people's love and attraction to sciences but I can't understand it, exactly as they can't understand my passion for languages and literatures (common discussion between me and a friend of mine who studies medicine).

Yet sciences are necessary and we wouldnt't have a lot of things without them, so someone has to care about them...Not me, thanks.
(you can tell me languages are kinda scientific too in a way, but even relating with grammars I'm often more istinctive than anything)

When I was 7 I was possibly the only primary school child who hated Wednesdays cos we had 2 hours of maths. Only on the very last year of high school I found something that disgusts me more than maths: biology.
The day when I finished school was great mostly because I finally stopped being forced to study things I didn't care about; maths biology chemistry and such (I admit I had some short moments of toleration for physics :oops: ;))

No offence to anyone or anything, just expressing my personal taste.

[ihrocks]

Rotty,

I don't pretend to know nearly enough about either math or science, but I'm fascinated by both,because they are the rules that govern Life, the Universe, and Everything, even if we don't know what all the rules are. There's mathematics in the symmetry of a flower and there's predictability in the heavens, still the flower has beauty, and the stars remain captivating.

Long ago, I discovered one of the most important things I'll ever know: how much I didn't know. Realizing that, I've tried to never stop learning.

Good luck with the plant cells.

ihrocks.

[Rotty1021]

Long ago, I discovered one of the most important things I'll ever know: how much I didn't know. Realizing that, I've tried to never stop learning.

Powerful statement there. I live by it as well, even though I don't care for math and science. I am one of those people who wants to know everything.

And this is my 100th post. :D