the simpsons and a question about snowball (the character.)

[fayefaye]

napolean was supposed to be stalin, right? who was snowball supposed to represent. i don't know much about the russian revolution so i was wondering if anyone wanted to fill me in on that stuff. also, has anyone seen that episode of the simpsons where lisa writes an essay on america and discovers a congressman planned to allow someone to log springfield forest? when she imagined all the pigs running around dressed in suits, was that a reference to animal farm?

[Blue Demon]

I think Snowball is meant to represent Trotsky in Animal farm as Emmanuel Goldstein is meant to represent Trotsky in 1984.

Yes I've seen the episode. It's from season 2 and is called "Mr. Lisa Goes To Washington." I don't think this is a reference to Animal Farm as there are also cats in top hats and tails scratching each others backs. The episode is referring to animal stereotypes - greedy pigs and fat cats after the cream.

However did turn up some Orwell references in The Simpsons. These can be seen here (http://www.google.com/custom?q=Orwell&cof=GIMP%3A%23003F5F%3BT%3A%230000 00%3BLW%3A560%3BALC%3A%23005F3F%3BL%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2 Fwww.snpp.com%2Fbin%2Fsearch%5Fheader.gif%3BLC%3A% 23005F3F%3BLH%3A37%3BAH%3Aleft%3BVLC%3A%23005F3F%3 BGL%3A0%3BS%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fwww.snpp.com%2F%3BGALT% 3A%23EF7F0F%3BAWFID%3A01394488e37b08b4%3B&domains= snpp.com&sitesearch=snpp.com&num=20//url)

[AbdoRinbo]

Old Major is Lenin.

'I am the Walrus.'

[fayefaye]

Yeah, that explains it. I read that Orwell was quite pro-Trotsky, which explains why he made napolean sound pure evil, and snowball completely innocent. but can someone fill me in a bit on the russian revolution? or the whole historical thing?

[=Monkey_King=]

I think Old Major is Marx/Engels (he only gives the start, he does no direct action) , Snowball is Lenin (Trotsky was just a war minister) Napoleon is Stalin (Lenin in his dying record he said that stalin was too rash, uncaring and rude and that he shouldnt be the leader but stalin got his hands on the records.

But you can be also right, as trotsky was exiled by stalin. Orwell probably didnt write to match 100% with the characters

[fayefaye]

Some ppl consider old major to embody marx, and snowball to be lenin/trotsky. this leaves the obvious napoleon-stalin, the proletariat animals, the kgb dogs, and the propaganda spreading squealer-but right now i can't remember specifically what that's meant to be called.

[Liina]

Actually there is no question about the fact that Snowball is Trotsky because Trotsky and Stalin (Napoleon) lived at the same time. Trtsky really believed in his outlook and he really wanted communism to work out but Stalin just wanted the power. That is why Snowball and Napoleon are quite certainly the representatives of Trotsky and Stalin. Old Major can be taken as Marx but also as Lenin because Lenin was the father of the Russian communist revolution and he died before he could have accomplished his goal - overall communist society, equality (which really can`t work out in real life and Animal Farm showed it quite well). In my opinion Snowball can`t have represented Lenin by no means becaue Lenin was dead by the time Trotsky and Stalin were in opposition. Animal Farm describes the communist revolution in Russia quite well and there`s not much to tell about it if one has read the book.
Squealer can be taken as the embodyment of the newspaper "Pravda" that was the biggest propaganda newspaper in the soviet union.

Im sorry but I can`t say anything about the Simpsons because this is a cartoon that doesn`t really depict literary themes. Then we could also claim that Homer is somehow the embodyment of the Greek poet Homer. This is quite a ridiculous thought right?:p

[emily655321]

Actually, the Simpsons has a lot of allusions to literature in it, including an entire episode based on "Lord of the Flies." :) There is also part of a Halloween episode based on "The Monkey's Paw," another retelling "The Raven," and a full episode in which the family depicts "Hamlet" and "The Odyssey." Other allusions include "Alice in Wonderland," "The Lottery," and my personal fave, "A Clockwork Orange." Marge also acts in a musical adaption of "A Streetcar Named Desire," and there is an episode called "Much Apu About Nothing."

I could go on, but I just wanted to point out that one should never underestimate the underlying genius of the Simpsons. :D

[Koa]

Em, you forgot the episode that openly quotes Shining :D One of my favourites. And I'm sure there's a lot that we're forgetting... It's definitely the most clever show ever existed.

[crisaor]

Indeed. :nod:

[George]

I agree with both Blue Demon and Abdorinbo. Old Major represents Lenin because he was the initiatior of the Russian Revolution just as Old Major started the animal Rebellion. Snowball is Trostsky because he was contemporary with Stalin, which is personified by Napoleon. Besides, Snowball was evicted from Animal Farm the same way that Trotsky from the USSR. In fact, I think that Orwell was against Stalin's regime and he was more identified with Trotsky's propositions. Thus, he wrote about that.

[nns]

Hello to all of you, Animal Farm lovers,
First I'd like to say that I totally agree with Liina on this "who's who" game.
But now I have a tricky question for all of you: we all know that every animal (or event) depicted in the book represents somebody (or something) that actually lived or took place in the early years of the Soviet revolution. My question then is: who (or what) does represent Moses (the tame raven)? For those of you who do not recall ...it, it is first mentioned on page3 of the book.
cheers,
nns