If truly there's a GOD why don't he just manifest his existence by showing up?

[kramraq]

Well, to end all arguments, to end all religious debates why don't God just show up physically or in any other way like example coming down from heaven and dividing the oceans into two for everybody to witness? I'm sure all humans will be having the same faith and we will have a better world. I need your opinions. Have a great day. Peace!

[bhekti]

Well, to end all arguments, to end all religious debates why don't God just show up physically or in any other way like example coming down from heaven and dividing the oceans into two for everybody to witness? I'm sure all humans will be having the same faith and we will have a better world. I need your opinions. Have a great day. Peace!

The problem is: How can we know that that "thing" coming down from the sky is God? Maybe some people won't recognize that "thing" as God simply because they don't (or can't) believe in the existence of God.

[ThatIndividual]

Kramraq, that's a good question. The answer though is quite simple. (Bear in mind also that I'm not a Christian...)

God means to test us. That's his little divine game that he plays with us, I guess. (We can even entertain this as a hypothetical. Perhaps a model for why God might not show himself. Keep in mind, I'm not saying that this is how it really is. I know nothing of God except that I think there must be one, and I don't even know that.)

Ok, so God is testing us.... He wants to test our faith, and if he shows up, he spoils the test. He wants to separate those who will serve a god from those who want to be their own gods, but if we all at once found out that he is real, then we would all serve him because we'd really have no choice if we were sane.

So basically that's it. This is a test and if he showed up it would be tantamount to giving us the answer that we're supposed to figure out on our own.

I however don't believe any of this, I'm just hypothesizing.

[starrwriter]

Well, to end all arguments, to end all religious debates why don't God just show up physically or in any other way like example coming down from heaven and dividing the oceans into two for everybody to witness? I'm sure all humans will be having the same faith and we will have a better world. I need your opinions.
I have a better question. Why did God "divide the ocean" and create a tsunami in the Indian Ocean that killed 300,000 people? Some of those people were Christians and not all of them could have been sinners who deserved to die like that.

If a Christian God exists, he has a lot to answer for.

[Logos]

Oh boy.. don't tell me this is going to be one of those `divisive' religious topics again? :)

[ThatIndividual]

C'mon man! Where's the Kierkegaard in you? Don't you like to discuss religioin?

[Countess]

>why don't God just show up physically or in any other way like example coming down from heaven and dividing the oceans into two for everybody to witness? I'm sure all humans will be having the same faith....

Because faith is hope in things unseen, and if God were detectable by our five senses then faith would be superfluous.

>Why did God "divide the ocean" and create a tsunami in the Indian Ocean that killed 300,000 people?

Man, a created being with limited perspective, cannot know the mind of God, so as to this specific example, I have no answer. On a theological level, however, when sin entered the world it did not just affect man, but also the earth.

Romans 8:19-25

19The creation waits in eager expectation for the sons of God to be revealed. 20For the creation was subjected to frustration, not by its own choice, but by the will of the one who subjected it, in hope 21that[i] the creation itself will be liberated from its bondage to decay and brought into the glorious freedom of the children of God.
22We know that the whole creation has been groaning as in the pains of childbirth right up to the present time. 23Not only so, but we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. 24For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at all. Who hopes for what he already has? 25But if we hope for what we do not yet have, we wait for it patiently.

>Some of those people were Christians and not all of them could have been sinners who deserved to die like that.

"For all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23. This is the basis for Christian humility, btw.)

>If a Christian God exists, he has a lot to answer for.

Answer to us? Man? Romans 9:19-21.

19One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' "[h] 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

Job 41:11

11 Who has a claim against me that I must pay?
Everything under heaven belongs to me.

Warning: former seminary student here.

Countess

[starrwriter]

Oh boy.. don't tell me this is going to be one of those `divisive' religious topics again?
Religion is more devisive than politics since there are more religious sects than political parties and people are more defensive about their religious beliefs than their political views.

[Logos]

Religion is more devisive than politics since there are more religious sects than political parties and people are more defensive about their religious beliefs than their political views.

Well I would argue this but we're not supposed to talk politics and I don't want to cleave this topic further with any more bad puns :lol:

[Countess]

Personally I'm not defensive of God because I feel God needs no defense, but I do like discussing religion and providing answers to questions when I have them. Consider me more a dispassionate apologetic.

C

[okmit]

It would be easier for"Dolly"the cloned sheep to recognize the Lab.Techs.that created it than it would be for any of us to recognize the Creator of all.We are arrogant beings that lack the desire to believe anything is greater than us.
The great prediction that runs through the whole contents of the old testament is that regarding the coming and work of the Messiah.Emmanuel (God with us) the Messiah Jesus Christ WAS the fulfillment of the prophecy.The masses did not recognize him then and do not acknowlege him now.Judas betrayed,Peter denied him,and Thomas doubted him,but you think we will know him.Hmm?

Anyhow,on Religion being more devisive than politics.Ganghi once said;"Those who believe there is no place for Religion in Politics knows very little about one and nothing at all about the other." Hmm?

[okmit]

I have a better question. Why did God "divide the ocean" and create a tsunami in the Indian Ocean that killed 300,000 people? Some of those people were Christians and not all of them could have been sinners who deserved to die like that.

If a Christian God exists, he has a lot to answer for.

Correction my friend.If a Christian God exists it is you that has a lot to answer for.

[Bongitybongbong]

I think God has manifested into one of those people who say that God is a golf club or something most people find irrational to see if anyone would be humble enough to learn that person's views rather than be arrogant and either insult the person or ignore him.

[Insomnia]

That is the real test of faith! to believe in God without seeing him. What would be the case if we could see god? there will be no test to defferenciate between the good and the bad.

[Stanislaw]

Well, to end all arguments, to end all religious debates why don't God just show up physically or in any other way like example coming down from heaven and dividing the oceans into two for everybody to witness? I'm sure all humans will be having the same faith and we will have a better world. I need your opinions. Have a great day. Peace!

well to quote an old quote: lifes a @#$%& and then we die.

God is testing us, and well it's up to us to pass or fail I suppose.

[Pendragon]

Well, to end all arguments, to end all religious debates why don't God just show up physically or in any other way like example coming down from heaven and dividing the oceans into two for everybody to witness? I'm sure all humans will be having the same faith and we will have a better world. I need your opinions. Have a great day. Peace! Look at it this way. Jesus came exactly according to prophecy, so much that when the Wise Men came to King Herod seeking Jesus, saying "Where is he that is born King of the Jews?" He asked the scribes where the Messiah was to be born and they said "Bethlehem". Did they then accept Jesus? Not hardly. The Priests said He had a devil. :nod:

[ThatIndividual]

Also note, the New Testament was written by Jewish scholars of the Old Testament. They were quite familiar with the prophecies, and it would take (indeed it DID take) very little effort to make things match up and look rather amazing.

[okmit]

Also note, the New Testament was written by Jewish scholars of the Old Testament. They were quite familiar with the prophecies, and it would take (indeed it DID take) very little effort to make things match up and look rather amazing.

What is truly amazing is your belief it took very little effort.One was crucified upside down,one beheaded,dis-embowled,stoned,beaten to death,etc.,yet you suggest these "Scholars" all died horrific deaths to perpetuate a hoax!Hmm?
There are other written accounts of the life of Jesus Christ such as that of Flavius Josephus,an Mohammad that concur with the Evangalists as prophisied by the Old Testament Prophets.You will note neither were Christians.

[subterranean]

Say, how would you know that?

Please, let me know your competency to say the below statement....


...Some of those people were Christians and not all of them could have been sinners who deserved to die like that.
.

[subterranean]

Look at it this way. Jesus came exactly according to prophecy, so much that when the Wise Men came to King Herod seeking Jesus, saying "Where is he that is born King of the Jews?" He asked the scribes where the Messiah was to be born and they said "Bethlehem". Did they then accept Jesus? Not hardly. The Priests said He had a devil. :nod:


Indeed, Pendragon. And to answer kramraq's question, I suppose the moment of truth will come, sooner or later. And agree with you that when that time come, all arguments/debates/discussions/discourse/ about religion/religious thingy, will cease to exist. And I'm not focusing on Christianity only here.

[starrwriter]

Say, how would you know that? Please, let me know your competency to say the below statement....
Hundreds of western tourists were killed and many of them were undoubtedly Christians. I won't dignify your insinuation that all of the victims must have been sinners who deserved to die.

[subterranean]

I think to state a comment like" some of those people were Christians and not all of them could have been sinners who deserved to die like that", would surpase my competency as a human as I don't have the right to judge whether one is a sinner or not, how people should die, which certain followers of certain religions should die, or when people should die. I mean, is it right to consider that the non-Christians victims deserve it? I don't think so. Hence, your comment interests me.

[Themis]

Well, to end all arguments, to end all religious debates why don't God just show up physically or in any other way like example coming down from heaven and dividing the oceans into two for everybody to witness? I'm sure all humans will be having the same faith and we will have a better world. I need your opinions. Have a great day. Peace!

I think if God showed up, he would rob us of the possibility to live our lifes ourselves. Because once he did, the requirements would never end.
In a way I believe that God created life. So, that's what he gave us. I'd think that was enough of an example of his power.

If we knew for a certain (like he divided the ocean for "everybody" to witness ) that he existed, people would start asking for more. If he can divide the ocean, why not start ending hunger, stop pollution?
And that would be wrong because at least, the pollution is something we brought on us ourselves and it's our job to stop it. Not his.

-ex mea sententia -

[Noais_Dantes]

the reason God doesn't come down here to prove to you is because if you saw him you would die.

[Noais_Dantes]

I think to state a comment like" some of those people were Christians and not all of them could have been sinners who deserved to die like that", would surpase my competency as a human as I don't have the right to judge whether one is a sinner or not, how people should die, which certain followers of certain religions should die, or when people should die. I mean, is it right to consider that the non-Christians victims deserve it? I don't think so. Hence, your comment interests me.

EVERYONE is a sinner including(sp?) Christians. all men and women must admit that he/she is a sinner and that Christ died on the cross so that we don't have to go to a fire pit call Hell. So God did come but no one took him for real. That is ANOTHER reason he is not her in person. otherwise God is here just in Spirit and not how you might want him to be.

[Lautschrift]

The universe strives on chaos, god created us to to serve him.there are hidden codes, predictions, we are not forced, he only ask us to trust , there a light and dark areas in such thoughts

also a infinite amount of information
it is those ,whom abuse there powers to conditon the force, which act upon indepent growth

many wars have been fought in gods name, i never heart him giving consent,nor have this actions, resolved the all over question
It is Human kind which he created in good faith who abuses the good and bad right from the start
the garden of Eden

[rachel]

The Bible says "let God be found true though every man a liar" and "for God's ways are not our ways nor his thoughts like ours."
So in the end, if God exists and He is Love and if as He says "for God will not be mocked-whatsoever a man sows that shall he reap" well then rage against Him as we may or blame Him for all we do that breed hate and violence and greed and lust and harm-in the end we will stand before Him and that's pretty much that.
I guess in the end we live and do what we do for our own reasons and then after life each of us sees the truth and then we know.
I like what Mithrandir, Gandalf the grey said to master Frodo when Frodo was grieved at the ring coming to him and said he wished it had not: so do all who live in such times. But it is not for us to think that but to do the best we can with the time given us' this is just a paraphrase. That is how i try to live.
I believe God is and is Love and good, but in the end if I was to be wrong I have wasted nothing and have lived as high and noble a life as I could and hopefully left behind me something good to bless and be passed on.

[Pendragon]

I think to state a comment like" some of those people were Christians and not all of them could have been sinners who deserved to die like that", would surpase my competency as a human as I don't have the right to judge whether one is a sinner or not, how people should die, which certain followers of certain religions should die, or when people should die. I mean, is it right to consider that the non-Christians victims deserve it? I don't think so. Hence, your comment interests me.I quite agree. No one made any of us whether Christian, non-Christian, Atheist or what-not the judge over the rest of humanity. We cannot say who deserves what, for we are to judge no one. I myself, as a Christian, believe that if I got what I deserve from God, I have done nothing at all to justify any favors, for I am as human as the next person, and subject to similiar mistakes. God is so far beyond man's ability to comprehend that you'd go crazy trying to figure Him out, as philosopher David Hume pointed out. Either you see God in what is around you or you do not. Like Yoda says, there is no try. :nod:

[BeatingTheWalls]

i know many christians who believe in God, but i could never see why. God has pre-destined us for hell thanks to original sin, and its through his only son Jesus and belief in him as the Divine Son of God that will get us into heaven. so if God gave you free will as a human being but pre-destined you to hell, just why? either God has a sense of humor/is alanis Morisette or christian belief is wrong. at least the catholics are thinking of getting rid of Limbo...

:bday_2:

[rachel]

Beatingthe walls
I think a parable of the sheep describes the truth of what God has in mind for every human. Because of His foreknowledge He knows who will honor and love Him and who will hate His guts and be His enemy forever. But He sanctifys all life and honors it and so He allows even those who will hate him to have life.Because He is love.
In the parable of the sheep it says that the Shepherd, Christ Jesus the Lord, God the Second Person of the Trinityloves each and every one of the sheep so much that when one of them deliberately or by any other reason leaves the fold where they are safe and nurtured and loved, the Shepherd then leaves the ninety nine and goes off to find the missing sheep and brings it back to safety. He loves us all and is not willing that any should perish. ever
Also when Jesus made Himself sin for us so that what we inherited from Adam could be wiped away and we could be then on the same ground he was on and be judged then from that moment on by our own merit, well to His left and to His right hung two admitted evil doers. One mocked and belittled Him the way both Jews and Gentiles on the ground did but the other had more perception and understanding. He talked to God face to face and admitted his sin and then asked Jesus to let him be with Him after death. Jesus said that He granted this desire of the heart. So even though by his former actions all his life he did what was evil, in the blink of an eye he was forgiven and had the unbelievable privelege of talking to the Son of God, Immanuel, God with us in theflesh and got to be ushered into the Presence and bliss of God after his death.
God loves all but He is Holy and cannot be in the presence of sin.
Unless you take the time to get to know Him nothing you hear about Him will make any sense or be worth anything.you cannot fall in love withsomeone you don't know about except thru what others tell you which may or may not be the truth. He says in the Holy Scriptures "draw near to Me and I will draw near to you." and " call upon me and I WILL answer." so it is like in earthly life a matter of having a personal relationship with God and thru it getting to know His nature and personality. Then and only then can you judge Him and decide whether He is worth your loving and serving or not.

[Ancestor]

I think I would like to address the question this thread poses since I have not read the whole thread. People whom demand proof of the exsistance of what seems impossible to exist often find empty answers. Why should God manifest himself in order for you to believe in God's existance? If God did manifest before you would you believe it to be God? Probably not because proof is only what we believe it to be. I have run across people wanting proof so bad that is blinds them to other possibilities that are out there. I believe in a higher being and I do not demand proof or believe because I cannot live without a security blanket. Faith is not a crutch for me to lean on in time of need but my faith completes my being. I am strong and I am weak just like ying and yang. I try to be balanced with my life and when something wonderful happens I say thank you. It seems we demand proof of the exsistance of God yet no one shows proof of his nonexsistance. I believe if you have faith or no faith does not matter for life is a on going journey we walk each day. Learning, exploring, and take the bad along with the good is how I live my life but most important I cherish all whom I love each day. Ask yourself would you believe your eyes if you came face with God? That is your answer to the question why God would manifest before you and the answer will be different for each one of us.

[Pendragon]

I think I would like to address the question this thread poses since I have not read the whole thread. People whom demand proof of the exsistance of what seems impossible to exist often find empty answers. Why should God manifest himself in order for you to believe in God's existance? If God did manifest before you would you believe it to be God? Probably not because proof is only what we believe it to be. I have run across people wanting proof so bad that is blinds them to other possibilities that are out there. I believe in a higher being and I do not demand proof or believe because I cannot live without a security blanket. Faith is not a crutch for me to lean on in time of need but my faith completes my being. I am strong and I am weak just like ying and yang. I try to be balanced with my life and when something wonderful happens I say thank you. It seems we demand proof of the exsistance of God yet no one shows proof of his nonexsistance. I believe if you have faith or no faith does not matter for life is a on going journey we walk each day. Learning, exploring, and take the bad along with the good is how I live my life but most important I cherish all whom I love each day. Ask yourself would you believe your eyes if you came face with God? That is your answer to the question why God would manifest before you and the answer will be different for each one of us. There is wisdom in what you say, that it would be a unique experience for us all. Even those of us who are Christians and walk the way have mixed reactions to different things. We agree more than we disagree, but on minor points we may vary a little. How we preceive God depends on our experience of meeting Him as our Savior, where we were in life, the circumstances we were undergoing. But I still believe that God cannot be understood by the human mind. People ask questions like, "Why does He say, "I will have mercy upon whom I will have mercy and whom I will I harden."?" Can I answer that question? I am honest enough to say NO. It's God's plans amd God's ways, they are beyond my comprehension. God bless. :angel: :nod: