is there any logic in denying the Creator???

[miss tenderness]

:yawnb: this is an article i got from a site ,www.islamtomorrow.com .hope you enjoy reading and share your thoughts with me,lets our minds work and think so we can find the truth of things : ,(you can refer to that site to get the whole article parts,thank you all
Yusuf Estes presents:
A logical approach to the understanding creation of the universe and it's continuation, based on simple reflection - without emotional prejudices or superstition.

Where did everything come from?
What is the proof?
Islam tells us Allah both The Creator & The Evolver, of all that exits. We know Allah did not evolve us from monkeys, and we know all things are from Allah. Please share this information with those who deny the existence of God. They need it.
There is a popular theory referred to as the 'Big Bang' theory. It tries to explain the existence of the universe in an evolutionary manner having an initial beginning with an immense explosion of some gases or solid mass. Some say there first was a void or a 'nothingness', or perhaps, some gases which exploded then from this everything in the universe simply began to evolve to the stage that we see now. There has never really been any solid evidence for this idea of 'something out of nothing' concept. Nor for that matter, the evolutionary theory itself.

We would like to explore the idea of creation from a purely logical standpoint using simple terminology without religious hype, emotional pre-convictions or superstitions.

What if someone called a 'scientist' tells you his 'theory' of how cars are made is like this:
A salvage yard on the south side of town blows up and all the metal pieces fly into the air and fall back down in one place forming a brand new Chevrolet Caprice automobile . . with no left over parts . . and the motor is running . .
Or what if his theory for how a chair is made is:
An explosion occurs in a forest and the trees go flying into the air and then suddenly they combine with some flying cloth to make a beautiful chair . . . and then it lands in a furniture showroom complete with matching table and lamp . . .
He further explains that:
An earthquake in California's 'Silicon Valley' causes the computer chips and circuit boards and other various parts to fall out of their boxes and off of their shelves and just come in place together as they are rolling around on the floor and form the most advanced technical computers existing on the earth? . . .
Or what of his 'Medicine Theory'? He now claims that:
A gas leak in a pharmacy warehouse causes a terrific explosion. All the different chemicals and substances just smash into each other in exactly the correct amounts to produce a miracle drug which cures everything form cancer to heart and liver disease, old age and warts? . . .
Wait . . . there's more to this one:
It is all in one formula, packaged in the bottles with labels and ready to sell with no mess left on the floor? . . .
Now after all this exploding and excitement this 'scientist' tells you of a great place to relax and have something to eat. It is his favorite place and he calls it: "Burger Blast"!
He says:
You just go in and sit down and suddenly a 'blast' from the kitchen occurs and immediately a burger lands right in front of you with all the trimmings.. just the way you like it complete with fries, a drink and even your favorite dessert? . . .
AND . . .
No one works at "Burger Blast", it just runs itself, automatically cleaning itself and as you leave it scans your billfold for a valid credit card and charges your bank account for what you have eaten? . . .
Now the question is: "Are you really going to accept any of this as 'fact'?

Of course not!

We wouldn't believe a new car is made from flying junk; chairs don't fall down from exploding trees; earthquakes do not produce computers and blasting burgers don't rain down on us from above.

Question: So how come we don't challenge a theory of something coming from nothing and then colliding in the cosmos to make the universe? Is it because of its tremendous magnitude that we have so little comprehension about it, that we are willing to accept any theory from a few telescope 'peeping Toms' to tell us that it came from 'nothingness'? Or just some gases colliding and then. . . 'Poof'!? Instant Universe? How?

Let us now come to our main subject:

Creation or Explosion?


We can turn our attention to the earth and the heavens and make observations on our own without a 'genius' scientist telling us what we are seeing.
And then the idea that nothing is sustaining the heavens and the earth! - 'It just runs itself'? How?

Think about the stars, the sun, the moon and the countless solar systems and galaxies in the universe.
Who or What created them in the first place?
They continue to function and move with the utmost precision and accuracy.
Who does this? Who keeps them gliding along on their courses and orbits preordained for them?
The Qur'an on the Origin of the Universe

Look closer to the heaven surrounding the earth. We call it the 'sky'. Notice the clouds? What are they?
The Qur'an on Clouds

Let us now bring our gaze a bit closer to earth. Consider the mountains and their majesty. Is there anything about these massive formations that may give us a clue as to the origin of creation?
The Qur'an on Mountains

What about the water covering the earth? Is there another clue hiding beneath the seas?
The Qur'an on Deep Seas and Internal Waves

Water covers so much of the earth and even mixes with the land in rivers and streams. Yet is there something keeping it from mixing with itself? What is contained in this mystery of separation of waters?
The Qur'an on Seas and Rivers

What about us? Are we are part of creation? How did we begin? What develops us and causes us to live and die? How are we sustained?
The Qur'an on Human Embryonic Development

Think about the humans. How did we all get here? What is the nature of mankind? What causes us to act as we do? Are we ungrateful to the One who created us and sustains us? What is this clue? Think about yourself. Did you create yourself?
The Qur'an on the Cerebrum (forehead area of the brain in humans)

Who or What created all this? Who is sustaining everything? How do organisms reproduce themselves? How can a tree grow up out of a seed?

[Satirical]

The most fallacious reasoning that I have ever seen has been perpetuated by this short essay.

[kilted exile]

Ok, I try my best to stay out of this area of the forum so as not to offend anyone....However, this is the biggest pile of claptrap I have ever read.
Firstly, I would like to draw a distinction between the "big bang" and evolution. Both theories are independent of each other.
Also, I accept the "Big bang theory" is just that a theory however it is a theory which can be backed up some degree of scientific experimentation, just like the theory of evolution can be shown through examination of special development.
It is this testing of theorieswhich makes the big bang and evolution so much different from the garbage the original author of that article sets forth.

[denmans]

The starter of the thread states that she wishes to discuss things logically and then goes into a statement of pure faith with a minimal of logic. A common trick of religeous argument. No attempt is made to suggest where the creator came from in the first place. This is always the fundamental mystery that is beyond us- where did the energy/matter come from in the first place to create the big bang- or indeed a creator, if you must. Anyone got an answer?

As for the answer to the original questions posed as having answers in the quoran I can only recommend Richard Dawkins books as an attempt to answer some of the great universal questions with some degree of logic.

[subterranean]

I have learned years ago that should you want to believe in the existance of "creator" (God), you must accept the fact that to some extend, you'd be illogical/irrational person. So in this case, as I believe in the existance of creator, I freely choose to be somewhat an irrational person.

[bugmasta]

I'm not sure the author explored anything logicly. The article is ultimately a series of questions with no conclusion. Only attempts to cast doubt on scientific THEORIES which any inteligent person will accept as just theories. It is well known that no one knows where it all came from.

[miss tenderness]

Hey I'm so sorry; I maybe did injustice to the original writer by not giving u the whole article, in the original article, statements like:
The Quran on the origin of the universe,
The Quran on the clouds, the Quran on seas and rivers….etc
These statements are highlighted and can be clicked at to read what behind, and that what will make this article complete and clear especially for those who ask for conclusions(bagmasta).please if u want to get the rest of it so u can give a good judgement,go to the site I stated at the beginning of my thread,u ll find a v clear title –Big Bang-please read the whole article and do not depend only on my thread to evaluate the writer.
Thank you

[lover of jesus]

I am really interested in such topics…I mean to deal with science as away to know the really God the almighty who builds all these universe and creates the creatures in such strict accurate deferent and homogeneous colors which make all people astonished
Really all praise to Allah ……..


Why A Scientist Believes In God

This article of Mr A. Cressy Morrison, former President of the New York Academy of Sciences, first appeared in the "Reader's Digest" (January 1948); then on recommendation of Professor C. A. Coulson, F. R.S., Professor of Mathematics at Oxford University, was republished in the "Reader's Digest" November 1960 - It shows how science compels the scientists to admit to the essential need of a Supreme Creator.

We are still in the dawn of the scientific age and every increase of light reveals more brightly the handiwork of an intelligent Creator. In the 90 years since Darwin we have made stupendous discoveries; with a spirit of scientific humanity and of faith grounded in knowledge we are approaching even nearer to an awareness of God. For myself I count seven reasons for my faith.

First: By unwavering mathematical law we can prove that our universe was designed and executed by a great engineering Intelligence. Suppose you put ten coins, marked from one to ten, into your pocket and give them a good shuffle. Now try to take them out in sequence from one to ten, pulling back the coin each time and shaking them all again. Mathematically we know that your chance of first drawing number one is one in ten; of drawing one and two in succession, one in 100; of drawing one, two and three in succession, one in a thousand, and so on; your chance of drawing them all, from one to number ten in succession, would reach the unbelievable figure of one chance in ten thousand million. By the same reasoning, so many exacting conditions are necessary for life on earth that they could not possibly exist in proper relationship by chance. The earth rotates on its axis at one thousand miles an hour; if it turned at one hundred miles an hour, our days and nights would be ten times as long as now, and the hot sun would then burn up our vegetation during each long day, while in the long night any surviving sprout would freeze. Again, the sun, source of our life, has a surface temperature of 12,000 degrees Fahrenheit, and our earth is, just far enough away so that this 'eternal fire" warms us just enough and not too much! If the sun gave off only one-half its present radiation, we would freeze, and if it gave half as much more, we would roast. The slant of the earth, tilted at an angle of 23 degrees, gives us our season; if it had not been so tilted, vapors from the ocean would move north and south, piling up for us continents of ice. If our moon was, say, only 50 thousand miles away instead of its actual distance, our tides would be so enormous that twice a day all continents would be submerged; even the mountains would soon be eroded away. If the crust of the earth had been only ten feet thicker, there would be no oxygen without which animal life must die. Had the ocean been a few feet deeper, carbon dioxide and oxygen would have been absorbed and no vegetable life could exist. Or if our atmosphere had been thinner, some of the meteors, now burned in space by the million every day would be striking all parts of the earth, starting fires everywhere. Because of these, and host of other examples, there is not one chance in millions that life on our planet is an accident.

Second: The resourcefulness of life to accomplish its purpose is a manifestation of all-pervading Intelligence. What life itself is no man has fathomed. It has neither weight nor dimensions, but it does have force; a growing root will crack a rock. Life has conquered water, land and air, mastering the element, compelling them to dissolve and reform their combinations. Life, the sculptor, shapes all living things; an artist, it designs every leaf of every tree, and colours every flower. Life is a musician and has each bird to sing its love songs, the insects to call each other in the music of their multitudinous sounds. Life is a sublime chemist, giving taste to fruits and spices, and perfume to the rose changing water and carbonic acid into sugar and wood and, in so doing, releasing oxygen that animals may have the breath of life. Behold an almost invisible drop of protoplasm, transparent and jelly-like, capable of motion, drawing energy from the sun. This single cell, this transparent mist-like droplet, holds within itself the germ of life, and has the power to distribute this life to every living thing, great and small. The powers of this droplet are greater than our vegetation and animals and people, for all life came from it. Nature did not create life; fire-blistered rocks and a saltless sea could not meet the necessary requirements. Who, then, has put it here?

Third: Animal wisdom speaks irresistibly of a good Creator who infused instinct into otherwise helpless little creatures. The young salmon spends years at sea, then comes back to his own river; and travels up the very side of the river into which flows The tributary where he was born. What brings him back so precisely? If you transfer him to another tributary he will know at once that he is off his course and he will fight his way down and back to the main stream and then turn up against the current to finish his destiny more accurately. Even more difficult to solve is the mystery of eels. These amazing creatures migrate at maturity from all ponds and rivers everywhere - those from Europe across thousands of miles of oceans - all bound for the same abysmal deeps near Bermuda. There they breed and die. The little ones, with no apparent means of knowing anything except that they are in a wilderness of water nevertheless find their way back not only to the very shore from which their parent came but thence to the rivers, lakes or little ponds - so that each body of water is always populated with eels. No American eel has ever been caught in Europe, no European eel in American waters. Nature has even delayed the maturity of the European eel by a year or more to make up for its longer journey. Where does the directing iruptilse originate? A wasp will overpower a grasshopper, dig a hole in the earth, sting the grasshopper in exactly the right place so that he does not die but becomes unconscious and lives on as a form of preserved meat. Then the wasp will lay her eggs handily so that her children when they hatch can nibble without killing the insect on which they feed, to them dead meat would be fatal. The mother then flies way and dies; she never sees her young. Surely the wasp must have done all this right the first time and every time, or else there would be no wasp. Such mysterious techniques cannot be explained by adaptation; they were bestowed.

[lover of jesus]

Fourth: Man has something more than animal instinct - the power of reason. No other animal has ever left a record of its ability to count ten or even to understand the meaning of ten. Where instinct is like a single note of a flute, beautiful but limited, the human brain contains all the notes of all the instruments in the orchestra. No need to belabour this fourth point; thanks to the human reason we can contemplate the possibility that we are what we are only because we have received a spark of Universal Intelligence.

Fifth: Provision for all living is revealed in phenomena which we know today but which Darwin did not know - such as the wonders of genes. So unspeakably tiny are these genes that, if all of them responsible for all living people in the world could be put in one place, there would be less than a thimbleful. Yet these ultra- microscopic genes and their companions, the chromosomes, inhabit every living cell and are the absolute keys to all human, animal and vegetable characteristics. A thimble is a small place in which to put all the individual characteristics of two thousand million human beings. However; the facts are beyond question. Well then, how do genes lock up all the normal heredity of a multitude of ancestors and preserve the psychology of each in such an infinitely small space? Here evolution really begins - at the cell, the entity which holds and carries genes. How a few million atoms, locked up as an ultra-microscopic gene, can absolutely rule all on earth is an example of profound cunning and provision that could emanate only from a Creative Intelligence - no other hypothesis will serve.

Sixth: By the economy of nature, we are forced to realize that only infinite wisdom could have foreseen and prepared with such astute husbandry. Many years ago a species of cactus was planted in Australia as a protective fence. Having no insect enemies in Australia the cactus soon began a prodigious growth; the alarming abundance persisted until the plants covered an area as long and wide as England, crowding inhabitants out of the towns and villages, and destroying their farms. Seeking a defense, the entomologists scoured the world; finally they turned up an insect which exclusively feeds on cactus, and would eat nothing else. It would breed freely too; and it had no enemies in Australia. So animal soon conquered vegetable and today the cactus pest has retreated, and with it all but a small protective residue of the insects, enough to hold the cactus in check for ever. Such checks and balances have been universally provided. Why have not fast-breeding insects dominated the earth? Because they have no lungs such as man possesses; they breathe through tubes. But when insects grow large, their tubes do not grow in ratio to the increasing size of the body. Hence there has never been an insect of great size; this limitation on growth has held them all in check. If this physical check had not been provided, man could not exist. Imagine meeting a hornet as big as a lion!

Seventh: The fact that man can conceive the idea of God is in itself a unique proof. The conception of god rises from a divine faculty of man, unshared with the rest of our world - the faculty we call imagination. By its power, man and man alone can fmd the evidence of things unseen. The vista that power opens up is unbounded; indeed, as man is perfected, imagination becomes a spiritual reality.


The source
Imanway

[RobinHood3000]

"No apparent means of knowing anything except that they are in a wilderness of water" is a grave omission. Salmon have a powerfully acute sense of smell with which they navigate home, much like the human eye can tell that a person has been someplace before, even if they can't place where that "someplace" is--it's not an "apparent" means of knowing, but it IS scientifically observable and notable.