John Donne

[ponynikki]

In the poem Death, Be Not Proud- John Donne, the line
"And better than thy stroke; why swell'st thou then?"- is this referring to line line previous to it (And poppy or charms can make us sleep as well) or to death itself? Anyone know? or think they know? Thanks :brickwall

[verybaddmom]

"and poppy or charms can make us sleep as well
and better than thy stroke; why swell'st thou then?"

basically the poem is an apostrophe (as in, he's making an impassioned speech to an abstract concept: death). Donne is telling death not to be so impressed with itself, that its not so powerful.
these two lines are support for his argument, if you will. he's stating specifically that he can get a better sleep or rest from the poppy derivatives of his day: opiates. if he can get everything from "poppy or charms" as he can from death's rest, then there's no reason for death to be "swelled" or full of itself. this argument essentially is designed to lessen the fear of death and remove the power that death has over the living.

is that kinda what you were hoping for?

[ponynikki]

yes that makes sense. Thanks. Completely obsessed with that poem but that one line always through me off. :)

[verybaddmom]

oh nice to meet you, im a donne fan myself :D

[kendrag]

One should also note the overately sexual undertones shown in all metaphysical sonnet cycles (this sonnet is only one of six in a sequence of sonnets Donne wrote in the early 17th century (probably 1609, to be exact) called the "Holy Sonnets: Divine Meditations). The metaphysical poets created what scholars today call, "the religion of love." Donne was one of the first; with the microcosmic/macrocosmic connection in mind, the metaphysical poets viewed the body as a holy temple. Sex was not dirty then, but something to be celebrated and even laughed at (read Shakespeare with this in mind; it'll make more sense). Remember: society today views this poetry through the filter of Puritan history, which has made sex and connotations toward sex "dirty".

To return to my earlier point, Donne's "Holy Sonnets" are basically love letters to God--continuations of the Psalms in the eyes of an Angelican priest. Donne takes the feminate role in the relationship: the bride of Christ (there are many verses in the bible where humankind is told to act like 'brides of Christ'). In Donne and other metaphysical poet's minds, sexuality is holy when in God's hands.

There is much more evidence, but not enough room here to type it!
Thanks for reading, hope this helps!
Kendra G.

:wave:
Post Script:
-It is also important to note that in writing prior to the creation of the novel (which includes Donne's poetry, and Shakespeare) words had double meanings (puns were a sign of intellegence in Shakespeare's characters) and, especially with sonnets, writing had double, triple, et cetera layering. The earlier interpretation of the text is great, and true. But there are extended conciets and layering for this poem that has still not been mentioned.

-The sexual connotations of these lines are plays (puns) on the words "stroke" and "swell".

-Please also note: I am not saying Shakespeare was a metaphysical- he was not.

-Also, to expound on the earlier post about support for the argument (this may aid in understanding other texts): an english style sonnet (which this is, in contrast to the Italian style) is set up into four quatrains of four lines which restate an argument in four conciets. The last two lines are called the couplet, and they are the answer to the first four conciets or a profound ending to them. Hope that makes sense!

[shamal]

hi, poppy produces opium, and charm means magic. both opium and charm are the cause of sleep. they bring a man into sleep.therefore, Donne is addressing to death,that your act is similar to opium and magic rather they give a better sleep than you thus you should not be proud.