Does Christ have a place in America anymore?

[Chardata]

My mom got an EM...i'll post it here...and it reminded me once again...where is God in our society? In light of the Ten Commandments in Alabama, the phrase "One Nation Under God" it is discouraging for Christians in our society. But our Presedent is an open Christian! People accuse us (or mainly me) for being closed minded and not accepting other religions. They say there may be more than one way to get to heaven...but as Christians that's not true! "Jesus said, I am the way the TRUTH and the light. No man my come unto the Father except through me." John 14:6 It seems to me that Christianity is the only religion pounded in America. Yes we are alittle touchy with Muslims but if we bander them we are accused of being closed minded...when the Muslims could have started it. Is Christ welcome in a nation, of which was founded on the basis of Christianity?

Below is the E-mail:

[Chardata]

This is worth remembering, because it is true. It's familiar territory,
but..... Those of you who graduated from school after the early 60's were
probably never taught this.

Our courts have seen to that! Did you know that 52 of the 55 signers of "The Declaration of Independence"
were orthodox, deeply committed, Christians? The other three all believed
in the Bible as the divine truth, the God of scripture, and His personal
intervention. It is the same Congress that formed the American Bible
Society, immediately after creating the Declaration of Independence, the
Continental Congress voted to purchase and import 20,000 copies of
Scripture for the people of this nation.

Patrick Henry, who is called the firebrand of the American Revolution, is
still remembered for his words, "Give me liberty or give me death"; but in
current textbooks, the context of these words is omitted. Here is what he
actually said:
"An appeal to arms and the God of hosts is all that is left us. But we shall not fight our battle alone. There is a just God that
presides over the destinies of nations. The battle, sir, is not to the
strong alone. Is life so dear or peace so sweet as to be purchased at the
price of chains and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God. I know not what
course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty, or give me death."

These sentences have been erased from our textbooks. Was Patrick Henry a Christian? The following year, 1776, he wrote this:
"It cannot be
emphasized too strongly or too often that this great Nation was founded not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of
Jesus Christ. For that reason alone, people of other faiths have been
afforded freedom of worship here."

Consider these words that Thomas Jefferson wrote in the front of his
well-worn Bible:
"I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our creator." He was also the chairman of the American Bible Society, which he considered his highest and most important role.

On July 4, 1821, President Adams said,
"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: "It connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity."

Calvin Coolidge, our 30th President of the United States reaffirmed this
truth when he wrote,
"The foundations of our society and our government rest so much on the teachings of the Bible that it would be difficult to support them if faith in these teachings would cease to be practically universal in our country."

In 1782, the United States Congress voted this resolution:
"The Congress of the United States recommends and approves the Holy Bible for use in all schools."

William Holmes McGuffey is the author of the McGuffey Reader, which was
used for over 100 years in our public schools with over 125 million copies sold until it was stopped in 1963. President Lincoln called him the

"Schoolmaster of the Nation." Listen to these word of Mr. McGuffey:
"The Christian religion is the religion of our country. From it are derived our nation, on the character of God, on the great moral Governor of the universe. On its doctrines are founded the peculiarities of our free Institutions. From no source has the author drawn more conspicuously than from the sacred Scriptures. From all these extracts from the Bible, I make no apology."

Of the first 108 universities founded in America, 106 were distinctly
Christian, including the first, Harvard University, chartered in 1636. In
the original Harvard Student Handbook, rule number 1 was that students
seeking entrance must know Latin and Greek so that they could study the
Scriptures:
"Let every student be plainly instructed and earnestly pressed to consider well, the main end of his life and studies, is, to know God and Jesus Christ, which is eternal life, John 17:3; and therefore to lay Jesus Christ as the only foundation for our children to follow the moral principles of the Ten Commandments.">

James Madison, the primary author of the Constitution of the United
States, said this:
"We have staked the whole future of all our political constitutions upon the capacity of each of ourselves to govern ourselves according to the moral principles of the Ten Commandments."

Today, we are asking God to bless America. But, how can He bless a Nation that has departed so far from Him? Prior to September 11, He was not welcome in America. Most of what you read in this article has been erased from our textbooks. Revisionists have rewritten history to remove the truth about our country's Christian roots.

[Kinch]

Most of the Founding Fathers were atheists (Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, James Madison, &c.), so it is a little far-fetched to say that we are losing Christianity to materialist agnosticism; it never was the cornerstone of this country.

[Shea]

There seems to be a conflict of opinion as to whether or not our forefathers were chistian or athiest. I would be curious to know the facts and thier resourses, but why would our history be so rich in talk of God if they were all athiest?

I definately beleive there is room for Christ in America. When I look at countries like Vietnam and Liberia, where our congregation has missionary work, I am very thankful that I live in a country were religious persecution is merely social.

[Chardata]

but do you feel that Christianity is getting all the heat for all the religious talks? I feel like it does...or maybe that i'm still in HS so its very prominent at my age. Am i the only one who thinks this...my friends seem to feel like I am. :-?

[Kinch]

Shea:

I guess you'd have to read the biographies and judge for yourself. Maybe they weren't 'atheists' necessarily, but I don't think they believed that God played any part in our everyday lives; to them, He created the universe and then abandoned it.

Chardata:

In high school everyone has a heated opinion on religion and spirituality, especially the Protestants (for my part I've seen very few vehement Catholics). The first thing I realized after I had been out of high school for several months was that--oh jeez--now I'm on my own and can make whatever decisions I choose! At first it was extremely overwhelming, but after a while you settle in to whatever particular belief you've chosen and live a practical life. However, the question that most high schools (public or private) confront you with is 'am I going to be a Christian or an agnostic?'. Perhaps at such a young age it seems like an important question, but most people with a little more life experience will tell you either they 'felt it' or they didn't. I think it is only loosely tied to American tradition these days.

But then again, Bush Jr runs this country like he was giving his personal sermon in Midland, Texas. Not the way to go about running a country, in my opinion.

[Shea]

I won't get into current politics because admin dosen't like it, except to say that George W. is a president that I feel comfortable with. Clinton made me rather uneasy.

I'd kind of like to look up those biographies, but I don't think I'm interested enough in political history. I thought that the abandonment of God idea came about just before the civil war. But then again, I don't really know much.

Chardata, I had a somewhat different HS experience in religion, namely because I had to pretend that I beleived in something that I didn't. My pressure came more from my Catholic family than anyone else. But now, with the exception of my grandmother and maybe my uncle, most of my family excepts the fact that I don't agree with the Catholic church. (mostly because they take the view of 'once a Catholic always a Catholic', to them I a Catholic 'with a little 'c''). My 'heat' has always been familial. What kind of 'heat' is going on at your school?

[Chardata]

Here's some background to my school:
I go to a public school in a suburb of Houston, Texas. It is an internationally ranked school. There are ppl from all nationalities and religous backgrounds. I am Japanese-American...one of the few. About 50% of the student population is Chinese. About 25% is Middle Eastern, Philipeano, African American or anything else. American white is the minority...barely...but the minority none the less. The three main religions are Islamic/Muslim, Prodistant and Catholic. There are many Athiests, Hindu, Shinto, Buddist, and Morman who go to my school too.

What I have experianced is that all the Christains will wear thier crosses, shirts and messages boldly but shy away when advertising for Christian club meetings. The Muslim community is very large and they are very aggressive. You are considered closed minded if you don't accept that they worship a different 'god'. They make Christians feel like they are in the wrong...when we are not. Sometimes I feel like if you are a Christian you are an outcast. In some ways we are...but not like this. Christianity is shunned and looked down upon but the Muslim and Islamic religions are accepted freely. I get weird looks and into debates about why Christianity is wrong and single minded. It gets hard b/c no one at my school really wants to stand up for our faith and beliefs. They all shy away and say that they don't want to get involved. It's sad b/c they all preach about standing up for thier faith but they don't...sometimes I feel like i'm the only one standing...

I have friends in a private school and they are THE ONLY CHRISTIANS in the entire school. I know then i couldn't handle it.

Houston is so diverse yet i feel like they are the ones closed minded b/c they wont' accept something that is being prosicuted under their very own eyes. :x

[Shea]

Your high school is very different from the one that I went to. Mine had a special arts program, it was always known as 'the hippy school'. It was extremely laid back no matter what religion we were talking about.

The best advice that I can give you is to study Acts. Follow the example of the early christians who were persecuted to the point of death. Don't worry about wearing crosses or other emblems (they can be intimidating), just let your christianity show by your example. Don't instigate religious debates (I'm not saying you do), and if people let thier blood boil because of their own narrow mindedness, just end the conversation because no one gets anywhere when there's anger involved. Understand where other people are coming from, yet stand your ground. Bottom line: you catch more flies with sugar than with vinegar.

(I feel like Polonius. :rolleyes: )

I know this advice is not easy, I have a difficult time following it myself. But it's the most productive way I can think of to deal with your situation. :)

Anyone else have any advice?

[Chardata]

thanx and i do try to live by that too. I really try to look and see where ppl are comming from...i esp. try to do this here.

[BMW-Guy]

Most of the Founding Fathers were atheists (Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, James Madison, &c.), so it is a little far-fetched to say that we are losing Christianity to materialist agnosticism; it never was the cornerstone of this country.


You're dead-on, Kinch. Since most of our founding fathers were atheists, we do our country a great disservice (did I spell that right?) to save that this country was "Christian" (Exception: The Pilgrims).

[baddad]

Discussion of spiritual beliefs can sometimes lead to animosity...........but here goes....The Americas (from the arctic to the tip of South America) are governed as secular societies. Religion is not supposed to play a part in the governance of the people. Organized religion (as opposed to individual spirituality) is an individual's choice, a preference. It is not connected to anyone else, or any institute other than a person's chosen place of worship. So I am somewhat confused as to the theme of this thread. Are some here advocating we have governments rule over us based on the dictates of a specific religion? While not advocating a 'Godless Government", I do prefer my spirituality to remain personal and prefer the government to stick to a secular state. As for those who would argue, 'My God is better than your God"................perhaps there are better things to do with your time than to argue nonsensical points with the unenlightened......

[Adelheid]

Quoting Chardata: "but do you feel that Christianity is getting all the heat for all the religious talks? I feel like it does...or maybe that i'm still in HS so its very prominent at my age. Am i the only one who thinks this...my friends seem to feel like I am."

It is true. I have often felt that way too, that Christianity is mostly getting all the heated discussions.

Quote from Kinch, "Most of the Founding Fathers were atheists (Thomas Jefferson, Benjamin Franklin, James Madison, &c.), so it is a little far-fetched to say that we are losing Christianity to materialist agnosticism; it never was the cornerstone of this country."

As to the fore fathers of America being mostly 'atheist', look further back to the time America really began. It started with the Christians from Britain. They were being persecuted for their religious beliefs. They tried to escape to America, but were betrayed twice. Once by the captain of the ship with whom they had planned to sail. But they finally managed to escape. It was on the journey to America, that they wrote the mayflower document. Christians were the first settlers America. There, they were free to worship God. If you look back, you will see that most of the laws that were first made in the Mayflower compact were Biblically based, until people started taking it out, one by one. When they did this, problems came, problems that people never wanted. Even Thomas Jefferson who wasn't a christian, wrote laws that were biblically based. `He obviously thought it would do the nation good. Young America built it's country on the laws and statutes of God, and God didn't fail America. America failed God.

[Taliesin]

OT: This reminds Us a sentence from "Breakfast of the Champions". We read it in another language and so We may misquote, but the sentence was something like this:
"In the year 1492, humans appeared on the American continent. Learn the number by heart. Before that time there were no human beings on the continent whatsoever"
Sorry if We hurt anyone's feelings.

[Jester]

Kinch: you decribed the founding fathers, tehy were diests, thats what you described, just like to share that term...

Chardata: you said that the muslims in your school thought that one was close minded if they did not accept that one could believe in a different God, that is the definition of being close minded (not saying you are, i dont know you but being unwilling to accept anothers difference of opinion is closemindedness and in the case no one is right or wrong, no matter how much you want to say otherwise, you simply cannot proove it beyond the power of your faith.)

I once had a covnersation with my freinds on religion, we had a very very strong protestant, strong catholic, two strong muslims, agnostic from buddhist background, two agnostics from christian background, buddhist, and a strong hindu, among these the only one to pass judgement was the strong protestant, in one sentence she told us we were all going to hell and she basically put down every other religion or belief that there is and every single time conversation led to religion she would turn into a preacher. I have no problems with missionaries they do a lot of good in the world even if they do disrupt a way of life for poeple. I have no problem with other relgions and have a very strong respect for poeple who can remain ademently faithful especially in our world today, however preaching and trying to convert one who has repeatedly stressed that those attempts are not welcome is aggravating to say the least. I share this because even though the US is meant to be a secular nation it has a long way to go before it is. (Its got a long way to go before its a true democracy)

I can understand why the founding fathers would base many of there laws on the Bible becuase teh laws are those that moral poeple should follow (moral as in anyone who has a sense of good and may or may not be religious) to me, relgion is just a good idea, it fades in and out of history but facilitates good behavior and the golden rule (most relgions do this within in their own community) however relgion has also been the cause of many wars, intolerance, genocides and evil actions in tehis world and that is where one must be wary and watch their step when addressing relgions. Most of my muslim freinds for instance do not feel that the Islamic fundamentalists are muslim becuase they follow a different interpretation.

My point is, follow your religion to the best of your ability but try not to be close minded or fearful that its becoming obsolete. (many in my high school where agnostic since we've been surrounded, our whole lives by every other [possible faith there is and choose to see the world from a nonrelgious stand point)

note: if i've offended anyone, in anyway (not sure how) forgive me that was not my intention but discussing relgious issues is very hard, thats why I mostly stay out of this forum.

[amuse]

re: founding fathers, the u.s. constitution specifically says no one is to be elected to office on the merit of their religious beliefs.
this is not a christian nation; it was founded with the tenets of religious freedom in mind, and the hope that religious tolerance would be practiced by everyone here.

[papayahed]

Is Christ welcome in a nation, of which was founded on the basis of Christianity?



I would assume by those who believe in christ.

I don't believe this country was founded on the basis of christianity, the first settlers came here to avoid religious persecution so it would stand to reason that the founding fathers would also add that in the bill of rights no matter their personal beliefs.

[Pendragon]

You'll notice in the Book of Revelations in chapters two and three, the promises made are always "to him that overcometh". And then there's Matthew 10:22 "And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved." Don't look for an easy road, that wasn't promised. Anything worth living for, is worth dying for. Take your bumps and brusies and go on. If you truly believe, then the end will be worth it all when you get there. :nod:

[okmit]

re: founding fathers, the u.s. constitution specifically says no one is to be elected to office on the merit of their religious beliefs.
this is not a christian nation; it was founded with the tenets of religious freedom in mind, and the hope that religious tolerance would be practiced by everyone here.
Help me locate in the Constitution anything close to your asserton.

The Mayflower Compact ,written in 1620 established the first basis for written law in the New World;"In the Name of God,amen.We whose names are underwritten,the Loyal Subjects of our dread Soverign Lord,King James,etc..etc.. (Christians)

We hold these TRUTHS to be self evident,that all men are CREATED equal,that they are ENDOWED by THEIR CREATOR with certain UNALIENABLE RIGHTS...(Jesus is still ok here)

Congress shall pass no law respecting an establishment of Religion,OR PROHIBITING the FREE EXERCISE there of...(Sounds like a live,let live Christian attitude)

George Washington,dubed the father of the country was also the first military Chaplain...Christian.

Jesus Christ is doing well in the United States...for the sake of the rest of the world!

[mono]

We hold these TRUTHS to be self evident,that all men are CREATED equal,that they are ENDOWED by THEIR CREATOR with certain UNALIENABLE RIGHTS...(Jesus is still ok here)

Congress shall pass no law respecting an establishment of Religion,OR PROHIBITING the FREE EXERCISE there of...(Sounds like a live,let live Christian attitude)
I have difficulty understanding your logic here, okmit. Could you explain more, perhaps?
Concepts of equality through creation (obviously through some creator, in a theistic religion) seem present in several religions. For example, I quote this following passage from the Bhagavad Gita:

I look upon all creatures equally; none are less dear to me and none more dear. But those who worship me with love live in me, and I come to life in them.
A specific passage (that I cannot recall) of The Koran "grounds the equality of the races in their common source as God's creatures."
One of the goals among the Tao Te-Ching seems to aim to "pluralism, perspectivalism, skepticism, political equality, and freedom." (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/taoism/)
That Jesus professed and preached equality I agree, but he seemed among others, such as Krishna, Mohammed, and Lao Tzu.

[amuse]

i'm not sure where my copy of the constitution is, but i was referencing it when i wrote that. anyway okmit, you have your beliefs and, i imagine, may likely mold what you hear to support them regardless of what i write.

[djtru]

How can there be any question about whether or not there is still room for Christ in America? It is still the largest single faith here (Catholic/Protestant), and is the largest in the world as well. The question should be, is there a way to make room for Christ in oppressed countries? In Communist places like China, Christianity and all other religions are outlawed. A foreigner caught practicing religion may be deported, a citizen may be executed or imprisoned. America, though it goes out of its way to seem like it does not favor Christians, still offers us ample space to believe. The gov't may frown on outspoken Christian stances and values, but it still allows us to exist, and as Jesus said that the world would hate us for his sake, that's probably the best that can be expected. Furthermore, the question is not whether or not there is "room" for Christ, but whether or not we are doing our duty as believers to spread the word. And Chardata, I would recommend not being militant about your faith, but don't back down. A friend of mine had a teacher a few years ago who claimed that the Holocost was a case of Christians killing Jews, but, as offensive as that is to a Christian, he kept his head and stated the facts that although Europe was predominantly Christian, the Nazis had their own religion and came nowhere close to following Christian ethics. I think you just need to keep your cool but don't compromise on your faith.

[djtru]

How can there be any question about whether or not there is still room for Christ in America? It is still the largest single faith here (Catholic/Protestant), and is the largest in the world as well. The question should be, is there a way to make room for Christ in oppressed countries? In Communist places like China, Christianity and all other religions are outlawed. A foreigner caught practicing religion may be deported, a citizen may be executed or imprisoned. America, though it goes out of its way to seem like it does not favor Christians, still offers us ample space to believe. The gov't may frown on outspoken Christian stances and values, but it still allows us to exist, and as Jesus said that the world would hate us for his sake, that's probably the best that can be expected. Furthermore, the question is not whether or not there is "room" for Christ, but whether or not we are doing our duty as believers to spread the word. And Chardata, I would recommend not being militant about your faith, but don't back down. A friend of mine had a teacher a few years ago who claimed that the Holocaust was a case of Christians killing Jews, but, as offensive as that is to a Christian, he kept his head and stated the facts that although Europe was predominantly Christian, the Nazis had their own religion and came nowhere close to following Christian ethics. I think you just need to keep your cool but don't compromise on your faith.

[okmit]

I have difficulty understanding your logic here, okmit. Could you explain more, perhaps?
Concepts of equality through creation (obviously through some creator, in a theistic religion) seem present in several religions. For example, I quote this following passage from the Bhagavad Gita:

A specific passage (that I cannot recall) of The Koran "grounds the equality of the races in their common source as God's creatures."
One of the goals among the Tao Te-Ching seems to aim to "pluralism, perspectivalism, skepticism, political equality, and freedom." (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/taoism/)
That Jesus professed and preached equality I agree, but he seemed among others, such as Krishna, Mohammed, and Lao Tzu.

mono,I believe the thread is whether there is room for JESUS in America,and unless you have some startling new evidence that the founding fathers were Muslim,Hindu,or any other sect,I'm afraid I don't understand your confusion??

[okmit]

i'm not sure where my copy of the constitution is, but i was referencing it when i wrote that. anyway okmit, you have your beliefs and, i imagine, may likely mold what you hear to support them regardless of what i write.

amuse,I am capable of change if enlightened.

You can get a new copy of the Constitution on line.

[Pendragon]

I also would like someone to show me the words "seperation of church and state" in The Constitution, especially in the oft quoted 1st admendment. :smash:

[mono]

mono,I believe the thread is whether there is room for JESUS in America,and unless you have some startling new evidence that the founding fathers were Muslim,Hindu,or any other sect,I'm afraid I don't understand your confusion??
I realize that, okmit, but thank you, again, for bringing the fact to my attention. I think that, however, you may have misunderstood my point, so I will quote again a large portion of your statement, and further explain myself.

We hold these TRUTHS to be self evident,that all men are CREATED equal,that they are ENDOWED by THEIR CREATOR with certain UNALIENABLE RIGHTS...(Jesus is still ok here)

Congress shall pass no law respecting an establishment of Religion,OR PROHIBITING the FREE EXERCISE there of...(Sounds like a live,let live Christian attitude)
You quoted partially from the U.S. Constitution, and mentioned in parentheses, "Jesus is still ok here." I agree with you that the forementioned part of the Constitution seems to profess, not only equality, but a Christian-influenced philosophy. What I think you may have misunderstood, however, regards that Christianity proves as not the only religion that professes equality among humans (or among humans, animals, plants, microorganisms, etc.); this seemed my purpose of quoting and referring to other religious texts.
Thank you again for pointing my attention in the correct direction of the intended purpose of this thread, but I felt the need to inform you of the preached concept of equality in other religions as well.

[Koa]

now I am not really paying attention to the whole discussion and this might have little to do with what is really going on here, but the subject of the topic (is there a place for christ in america) is like...intriguing to me... Because believe me I was truly shocked about how many firm believers frequent this site, and hoq many of them are from the USA. In my country religion is part of society and many people do go to the church even if I think that a very little percentage of them really believes... and here I've never seen anyone believing as firmly as people on this site, and knowing the Bible so well and such (except for my granny but 70 years ago everyone was like that I guess). For me America is the land of Hollywood movies where Dawson's-Creek-like teenagers wonder about their own sexual life, the land where everything is modern and rich - and I know it's not really like that and are many various realities but that's still the stereotype, the cultural cathegory we have of when America was kind of 'ahead' and we were trying to rebuild Europe piece by piece. Therefore seeing so many people being so passionate about their belief was for me a really curious sight and something I would have never expected.

[amuse]

amuse,I am capable of change if enlightened.

You can get a new copy of the Constitution on line.

how nice. wonders can i say the same for self...

have one, but thx. :) it's there, but amn't interested in researching where. was interesting while enrolled in a particular course, but not my fave field of interest. you can check it out if you'd like. ;) well, am signing off from this thread; take it easy.

[subterranean]

I think quality counts more than quantity. If you refer "place" in America as in the number of people being Christians/Catholic, then suppose the number is still high. But to refer "place" as in the quality (of religious life), then this question goes to all people (Christian/Catholic) around the world.

[okmit]

I realize that, okmit, but thank you, again, for bringing the fact to my attention. I think that, however, you may have misunderstood my point, so I will quote again a large portion of your statement, and further explain myself.

You quoted partially from the U.S. Constitution, and mentioned in parentheses, "Jesus is still ok here." I agree with you that the forementioned part of the Constitution seems to profess, not only equality, but a Christian-influenced philosophy. What I think you may have misunderstood, however, regards that Christianity proves as not the only religion that professes equality among humans (or among humans, animals, plants, microorganisms, etc.); this seemed my purpose of quoting and referring to other religious texts.
Thank you again for pointing my attention in the correct direction of the intended purpose of this thread, but I felt the need to inform you of the preached concept of equality in other religions as well.

Sorry,I don't believe any religion professes equality.My point was Their many references to God,(Endowed by Their Creator,&such.)The fact that they were Christians is documented.Ben and his wife Deborah Franklin,as well as George Washington,and Benjamin Rush are all buried in Philadelphia,Pennsylvania at the Christ Church Burial Ground.Thats an Anglican church that was very discriminitory...only members were permitted burial there.Other records available for the rest.

The common belief of all religions is a reward for the faithful an woe to the unbeliever...so much for equality!

[subterranean]

They consider it as justice...This kind of thing apply not only in religions, but also in cultural values/norms, which are ussualy applicable to certain groups of people only.




The common belief of all religions is a reward for the faithful an woe to the unbeliever...so much for equality!

[okmit]

They consider it as justice...This kind of thing apply not only in religions, but also in cultural values/norms, which are ussualy applicable to certain groups of people only.

Well said,however I believe ussualy should be ALWAYS.Man is not capable of acting just,or equal.

[PistisSophia]

I don't think the world is ready for the teachings of Christ. Love, charity, inclusion.

There is too much hate and racism within organized religion.

[skt2k4]

I'm hearing people constantly mention that because our founding fathers were Christian, we should be Christian, too.

We should be whatever best upholds the values we were founded on: Freedoms and liberties

Should we have a definite Christian influence in our government? No, because it endangers the freedoms of other religions and makes it so their government does not represent them.
But for the same reason, we should not have any religion cemented into the government.

But should we allow Christianity? Of course! Christians have a right to freedom of religion. A politician has a right to a religion. This is the same for every religion. As long as this doesn't get to the point where other liberties are harmed, it is fine.

[subterranean]

In society where dominant religion or culture/ethic group exist, some rules/values/norms which suppose to be applied only to that group, may penetrate and apply to all members of society, which may have different religion/cultural background. That's why I use the word "ussualy".


Well said,however I believe ussualy should be ALWAYS.Man is not capable of acting just,or equal.

[okmit]

In society where dominant religion or culture/ethic group exist, some rules/values/norms which suppose to be applied only to that group, may penetrate and apply to all members of society, which may have different religion/cultural background. That's why I use the word "ussualy".

I understand.

[Pendragon]

Duh, guys, I changed my original post to read:

<<<I also would like someone to show me the words "seperation of church and state" in The Constitution, especially in the oft quoted 1st admendment.>>>

Instead of "5th admendment".

Forgive me when I'm bipolar. I get things all crossed up. I, uh, plead the 5th... :blush:

[okmit]

No problem...just above the signers names the word Pennsylvania only has one N ...it happens to the best of us!