Is There Life After Death?

[Pendragon]

I thought I would like to get my fellow posters thoughts on this topic. As a Christian, of course I believe in life after death. But many of you have stated that you are Atheists. So I was really wondering, as "The Great Questioner" what does the Atheist belive happens upon the ending of life. And anyone else who has other views than my own. To question and receive feedback is to grow. Please try to be civil as I will treat everyone with dignity, and badmouth no one. Those who known me by now know that I will keep that promise.

[Themis]

I chose "Yes" in the poll, meaning I believe in life after death. But, to be honest, I am a bit unsure whether there really is going to be something after my death or not. Still, I hope that there will be something ... anything.

[Nightshade]

Ive voted yes but actuually I mean define life. I do not belive in life as we know it there is definetly somthing in my mind but maybe purguary/limbo/heaven and hel;l are not life. Life can only be defined by death so if their will be immortality after death then surly it is not life. Does that make sense?

[sir]

i don't really believe there's a a meaning of life...i really can't figure it out...therefore i don't see why there should be another kind of existence after death...

-whether we are rich or poor,happy or miserable we are all addicted to life...we love life even if we don't know where we are coming from,why are we alive,where will we go after death...this is the reson why we like to think that life never ends...poor and frustrated people hope for a better life,rich and happy people hope they will never lose what they have.
so, imagining/hopping a life after death is the result of the man's addictedness to life.
-my reason tells me that there's no life after death but my addictedness to life tells me that is just impossible that after death i just won't exist anymore...

anyway, i voted "no" but,u know, i'll just let that "lifeafterdeath" surprise me ;)

[Koa]

i can't really imagine anything after death... just... nothing. you're dead, your body lies there until there's nothing left of it, and that's it.
yeah, welcome to the world of optimism...

i mean if i really try to imagine 'life after death' i just get that tv-like image of people living on the clouds and looking down on what happens on earth... which is like... unrealistic...

then as sir said, let's see if we have a surprise...

[Dyrwen]

I like to figure life after death is a lot like life before you were born-- i.e. non existent. Try to remember a time before you became a zygote and tell me what the world is like then, and once you do that you shall know what the end of life has in store for you.

For those that think there's something before you were born that they remember, I'm trying to point out that there's nothing there, so that there's no confusion here. heh

[mono]

I voted 'undecided.' The thought, to me, seems to entirely transpass and transcend humankind's collective mortal thought, so I remain skeptic.

[adilyoussef]

I vote yes. I believe that there is life after death and that what gives sense to my existance.

[Edmond]

one question.
Does one lives to die? (as a christian)
or Does one lives to live?

Lives to die- Yes there is an afer life.

Lives to Live- No, don't even think about it

[Pendragon]

one question.
Does one lives to die? (as a christian)
or Does one lives to live?

Lives to die- Yes there is an afer life.

Lives to Live- No, don't even think about itWell, Edmond, I'm trying not to influence anyone's vote here. My stated purpose for the poll was to get other's points of view. I feel that if I answer your question, then somehow I will influence your vote. Your opinion should always be your own. Choice is man's greatest gift. :wave:

[Ancestor]

My physical existance will end with my death and to think that nothingness awaits me after that is a cold lonely thought. I do believe my spirit shall go on living without the physical body and that is a warm comfort thought for me. Although it would be nice if I could come back into another physical body and live a totally different life then the one I am living now. Not because I am unhappy with my life but just to experience a different point of view. The thought of seeing my family members again also is a comfort but I won't know for sure until that day happens to me.

[tiny explorer]

I votred for yes and it's absolutely real.......I believe there is EVERLASTING LIFE after physical death if we have accepted Christ as our personal Lord and Saviour....."I am the way the truth and the light no one cometh unto the father but by me...." that's heaven......And I believe in Eternal death also....if we don't accept Christ as our Saviour....I'm sure everyone has heard the gospel or has read the BIBLE :thumbs_up ....

[Adelheid]

There is a great difference here... it all links back to whether you choose to believe the Bible as the Word of God, and the Truth. If one believes in Evolution, then for them according to their theory, it's difficult even to the point of impossibility for them to believe in life after death no matter how hard they want to.

Whereas, if one believes that the Bible is true, then Life after Death becomes a settled matter to them. There is obviously either Heaven or Hell. As I said before, good works cannot save you. Only Jesus. Then, if you chose not to trust Him, then Hell remains for you. your sins condemn you there.

Then to me, between taking the big risk of finding out after death that there IS Heaven and Hell, and you're not prepared ..... I would prepare myself beforehand. If on the other hand, you have accepted the gift of God, yet found if there is nothing after all, you still have nothing to lose, but much to gain. You will have lost much indeed if you chose to disbelieve on earth (because of one's obstinancy), and find out that you were wrong, and it's too late to change.... I grieve for you. It is terrible in Hell....

It's still the better choice to choose Jesus now, while you can. That's all I'm saying.

[subterranean]

I think, based on the teachings (i.e Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Budhism), believers believe that death is just an intermezzo, and the final end is eternal life (or... punishment). Believers are taught to give more attention to what happen next after death instead of what happen now (pre-death).



one question.
Does one lives to die? (as a christian)
or Does one lives to live?

Lives to die- Yes there is an afer life.

Lives to Live- No, don't even think about it

[okmit]

"Live so that thou mayest desire to live again-that is thy duty-for in any case thou wilt live again!" Freidrich Nietzsche

"It is no more surprising to be born twice than once;everything in nature is Resurrection." Voltaire

"God generates beings,and sends them back over and over again,till they return to Him." Koran

"All pure and holy spirits live on in heavenly places,and in course of time they are again sent down to inhabit righteous bodies." Flavius Josephus

"But I tell you,Elijah has already come,and they did not recognize him,but have done to him everything they wished.In the same way the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands.Then the disciples understood that He was talking to them about John the Baptist."Jesus Matthew 17:12,13

"Souls are poured from one into another of different kinds of bodies of the world." Jesus Christ in Gnostic Gospels:Pistis Sophia

"The virtues we acquire,which develop slowly within us,are the visible links that bind each one of existences to the others-existences which the spirit alone remembers,for Matter has no memory for spiritual things." Honore Balzac

Had I never been aware of the teachings of the Masters it wouldn't have mattered for I was made aware of my spirit.Okmit

[Loki]

I voted "Yes"; I think reincarnation or something of that kind is quite possible...though this doesn't mean I strictly "believe" in reincarnation, I consider it as a plausible thought.

[Dyrwen]

There is a great difference here... it all links back to whether you choose to believe the Bible as the Word of God, and the Truth. If one believes in Evolution, then for them according to their theory, it's difficult even to the point of impossibility for them to believe in life after death no matter how hard they want to.
There are plenty of Christians, and theists, who believe in evolution and God. If you'd been over to the evolution v creation thread, which I know you have, you'd know that. I guess you're just not willing to accept that the two can live together in harmony?


Whereas, if one believes that the Bible is true, then Life after Death becomes a settled matter to them. There is obviously either Heaven or Hell. As I said before, good works cannot save you. Only Jesus. Then, if you chose not to trust Him, then Hell remains for you. your sins condemn you there.
A good friend of mine once said: "I live my life to learn, when I die, if there is nothing after, I will not care. If there IS something, death will be opening a whole new opportunity for learning. Where is the downside?" Heaven and Hell are but new places to understand the world, and we can't be sure if either awaits us no matter our devotion, because there's always a chance one of those other gods was right and you'll be in Hell right next to me. Or I'll be Heaven alongside you and a God that never really made a Hell. There are so many possibilities to the afterlife in a theistic sense that realistically there's no reason to fear any outcome.


Then to me, between taking the big risk of finding out after death that there IS Heaven and Hell, and you're not prepared ..... I would prepare myself beforehand. If on the other hand, you have accepted the gift of God, yet found if there is nothing after all, you still have nothing to lose, but much to gain. You will have lost much indeed if you chose to disbelieve on earth (because of one's obstinancy), and find out that you were wrong, and it's too late to change.... I grieve for you. It is terrible in Hell....

It's still the better choice to choose Jesus now, while you can. That's all I'm saying.
Once again, the concept of Pascal's Wager (look it up (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pascal-wager/)) applies. There's an equal chance of any afterlife being possible, not just yours, but I can see how you've obviously an agenda to push in hoping everyone believes the way you do, so one tends to have to excuse that.

In any case, you wondered what atheists think happens after death in the "atheists.." thread, and yet we gave fluid answers here you've yet to critically look at, so perhaps we could get some response on those? Seeing as this is a discussion and we've all gotten the basics of "what we think" out of the way.

[Ancestor]

Originally Posted by Adelheid
Then to me, between taking the big risk of finding out after death that there IS Heaven and Hell, and you're not prepared ..... I would prepare myself beforehand. If on the other hand, you have accepted the gift of God, yet found if there is nothing after all, you still have nothing to lose, but much to gain. You will have lost much indeed if you chose to disbelieve on earth (because of one's obstinancy), and find out that you were wrong, and it's too late to change.... I grieve for you. It is terrible in Hell....

It's still the better choice to choose Jesus now, while you can. That's all I'm saying.

Ever stop to think that life here on Earth is the true Hell? (pardon my language.) No matter how much we prepare ourselves we can never truly be prepared for what is waiting for us around the corner. Some people think that knowing what is going to happen before it happens can better prepare you when it comes. Wrong, it did not for me and I shall explain further on that for you. I knew two days before my sister ended up in a emergency room she had white blood cell clots and would lose her leg from it. I have no medical training and should never have known that and 14 years later my sister has been without her right leg. You could not prove to me I was right before that whole ordeal began. Bottom line we shall see when we all experience death and find out just how right or wrong we are. Until then I shall enjoy every breath of life I have and to learn about others ideals, beliefs, and all around who they are. Learning is growing and growing allows me to move forward and dare to explore this huge world we live in.

[Logos]

Ever stop to think that life here on Earth is the true Hell? (pardon my language.)



"Hell is other people." ~ Jean-Paul Sartre (1905-1980) :D

[Kaltrina]

I voted "Yes"; I think reincarnation or something of that kind is quite possible...though this doesn't mean I strictly "believe" in reincarnation, I consider it as a plausible thought.

I totally agree with you Loki. I also believe in reincarnation, I think it can be possible.

[subterranean]

I totally agree with you Loki. I also believe in reincarnation, I think it can be possible.

note: emphasize added

I think believe and possible don't really match there...

Believe from Merriam Webster (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=believe&x=9&y=13) :

intransitive senses
1 to have a firm religious faith
2 to have a firm conviction as to the goodness, efficacy, or ability of something
3 : to hold an opinion : THINK <I believe so>
transitive senses
1 to consider to be true or honest
2 to hold as an opinion


possible from Merriam Webster (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=possible)

1 being within the limits of ability, capacity, or realization; being what may be done or may occur according to nature, custom, or manners
2 being something that may or may not occur; being something that may or may not be true or actual <possible explanation>
3 having an indicated potential

[tiny explorer]

I think none can find the answer whether there is life after death because we all refer to dif. sources....but I make my stand on bible as a good source...scholars tried looking for falsity in it but there is no ambiguity found and it is really true bec. it's history.....Thus,the doctrine written in the bible is true.Therefore, there really is life after death....Life in heaven if u have accepted Christ as ur savior and hell for those who do not beklieve...."for the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord"If one doesn't have faith in God's word so as one doesn't have faith in Him...and thats the poorest thing to know.

[Kaltrina]

I think believe and possible don't really match there...
ok I know that it sounds as if I am confused and talking just to say something. but I do believe that reincarnation is, possible, I'm not a firm believer in reincarnation but sometimes when I think I find it possible. I'm a muslim, and our religion doesn't believe in reincarnation, and when I think from religious views that it seems impossible but when i think rationally then reincarnation is the only way. now you may call me a confused person but that is only the struggle between religion, my heart, and my mind, the reason.

[Jay]

I think open minded (http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?book=Dictionary&va=open-minded) ("receptive to arguments or ideas") sums it up, not sure why there should be a problem with believing in a possibility. In my opinion what Kaltrina said is that she believes reincarnation is possible.

I'm open minded about reincarnation as well. It might be possible but one won't find out until one's, well, dead and about to move bodies.

[Kaltrina]

thank you Jay. happy that you agree with me and understand what I'm saying. :)

[subterranean]

No need to think that I was trying to challenge you there, it was merely an effort to build a discussion.

[baddad]

I have voted yes to afterlife. But only if you consider that none of us is leaving the planet (unless you get a ride in a rocket) and so will be endlessly recycled within the earth system/ecology. Probably not what most of you envisioned for a 'new life/afterlife', but the scientist and spiritual being that I am dictates thusly. So, Cheers my friends!!!! We are all going to be together until the earth eventually explodes!!!

[Loki]

I think open minded ("receptive to arguments or ideas") sums it up, not sure why there should be a problem with believing in a possibility. In my opinion what Kaltrina said is that she believes reincarnation is possible.

That's exactly my stance. Well done, everyone! :D We've managed to get mixed up and then un-mixed-up again!

[rachel]

I thought I would like to get my fellow posters thoughts on this topic. As a Christian, of course I believe in life after death. But many of you have stated that you are Atheists. So I was really wondering, as "The Great Questioner" what does the Atheist belive happens upon the ending of life. And anyone else who has other views than my own. To question and receive feedback is to grow. Please try to be civil as I will treat everyone with dignity, and badmouth no one. Those who known me by now know that I will keep that promise.

With all my heart I believe in life after death.
I believe what the Scriptures says that God has put time indefinite into the heart of everyman.'
I have known many who scoff and laugh at the notion until something happens in their life, not even necessarily a tragedy and in the blink of an eye they believe.
"I am the Way and the Truth and the Life, whoever believes in me though he die, yet shall he live." Christ Jesus the Lord

[simona]

do you belive in reincarnation?

[Pendragon]

do you belive in reincarnation?
If your question is "Do I believe I shall live again?" the answer is yes, certainly, for the Bible promises a new Heaven and a New Earth and eternal life. If your question is "Do I believe I have lived before and will continued to be recycled through other lives?" No. I have had dreams which I am certain that proponets of previous lives would interpet as "memories" but which I put down to a very active REM state. I dream in full color, something I am told is odd, and it is like I experience instead of dream. It's where I get my ideas as a writer of short mysteries, poetry, and ghost stories, mostly centered around the Civil War. Living in VA, I don't have to go far to see a battlefield. In fact, the salt mines across the mountain from the house supplied the Confedercy, and they have a reenactment every year. :nod:

[mono]

do you belive in reincarnation?
Hmmm, that seems even more difficult to answer than the more general question whether life exists after death.
Over years, I have warmed up and grown accustomed to the idea of Buddhist reincarnation, and Pythagoras' concept of the transmigration of souls (I do believe in the immortal soul, for I cannot remain skeptic on everything :D). Of course nearly all belief systems must contain some kind of faith, except empiricism, but with Buddhist thought and some of Pythagoras' ancient meditations, I tend to find some confident belief.

[Insomnia]

I chose "Yes" in the poll, meaning I believe in life after death. But, to be honest, I am a bit unsure whether there really is going to be something after my death or not. Still, I hope that there will be something ... anything.
You bet there is!

Sure there is life after death

[Adelheid]

There are plenty of Christians, and theists, who believe in evolution and God. If you'd been over to the evolution v creation thread, which I know you have, you'd know that. I guess you're just not willing to accept that the two can live together in harmony?

A good friend of mine once said: "I live my life to learn, when I die, if there is nothing after, I will not care. If there IS something, death will be opening a whole new opportunity for learning. Where is the downside?" Heaven and Hell are but new places to understand the world, and we can't be sure if either awaits us no matter our devotion, because there's always a chance one of those other gods was right and you'll be in Hell right next to me. Or I'll be Heaven alongside you and a God that never really made a Hell. There are so many possibilities to the afterlife in a theistic sense that realistically there's no reason to fear any outcome.

Once again, the concept of Pascal's Wager (look it up (http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pascal-wager/)) applies. There's an equal chance of any afterlife being possible, not just yours, but I can see how you've obviously an agenda to push in hoping everyone believes the way you do, so one tends to have to excuse that.

In any case, you wondered what atheists think happens after death in the "atheists.." thread, and yet we gave fluid answers here you've yet to critically look at, so perhaps we could get some response on those? Seeing as this is a discussion and we've all gotten the basics of "what we think" out of the way.

It is IMPOSSIBLE for a true believer in God and His Word to believe in Evolution. They clash. Did not Genesis clearly state that God created the universe? How then can you say admit that there is such a thing? Preposterous! :brow: They may live in 'harmony' as you put in by living in forced ignorance, and hiding behind delusions. It is time for them to wake up. The world is changing- another thing predicted in the Bible. And I'll tell you another thing, Dyrwen. It's going to get ALOT worse than it is. Bad as it already is. Not ME propehesing- it was written down hundreds of years ago, in the Bible!

I'm sorry for you if you think that Death for the unbeliever will be nothing but learning. There is only one thing you will learn- that God was right. I will not argue about the points already went through, we are just wasting our time arguing for the sake of pride, to see who can convince the other. But in actual fact, neither is willing to be convinced, only to argue. The sole mindset from the time you first started reading this was to think of the best way you could reply this and defend yourself, not to think through it. You will see whether what I say os true or not.

Ancestor, if you think that life on earth is hell, I think you should consider again. Everyone has their ups and downs, and at some point in time, everyone will experience hurt in someway or another. This world was never perfect ever since Adam gave away his authority to Satan. Sin entered, and poisoned everything. Pain and sorrow came into the world which never was formed for it in the first place. I know you have gone through many trying things, and I sympathise with you. Yet circumstances were not formed for us to get bitter at, but rather that we should be perfected in the image of Christ. Hell will be so bad- unimaginable.

Those in Hell will cry out to die. die. die. die. "I want to DIE!!!" they will scream. not even for a drop of water do they want to die. They want to die because they cannot bear it! But there is no second death. Imagine!!! The WHOLE of eternity will be spent in the screams of pain, anguish, grief, hate, bitterness, etc. Not as much fun as some people think. Each will be confined to their pits, where fire will consume them, and worms will eat away their insides- FOREVER. Be wise, and take what is freely offered to you. Eternal life.

[Loki]

Ancestor, if you think that life on earth is hell, I think you should consider again. Everyone has their ups and downs, and at some point in time, everyone will experience hurt in someway or another.

But Adelheid, don't you think that some people have lives that are almost *wholly* miserable, while others have lives that have their "ups and downs" but are at most times...liveable? Think of people on drugs, who are totally destroyed psychically. I don't think the few moments of pleasant hallucinations/good feeling/etc. "balance out" to make the destruction afterwards "all right" for the person using drugs. Don't you think that people who lives their lives under violence, in terrible conditions, may have a lot worse a time than normal people, us with our "up and downs"? And don't you think those wretched souls ought to be forgiven?

If God is just in any way, or has even a *bit* of human kindness in him, then he can't send these people to "eternal damnation". It's simply not logical. I, a humble human being, would take pity on any sort of crime or offence - yea, any. If I can forgive, why can't God forgive? "To err is human, to forgive divine." All immorality is a result of bad environmental conditions (if you were born on a pirate ship you'd be a pirate too), or even a simple mistake. Everyone makes mistakes, some small ones, some huge moral ones; but each and every one of us is a human being and deserves forgiveness for our sins, no matter what. Each of us has two arms, two legs, two eyes, and so forth. We're even distantly related (Mitochondrial Eve) - 10 000th cousins.

That's my objection to Hell. My objection to Heaven - well, in a nutshell, it's too perfect. So perfect that it loses perfection and becomes imperfect. I also believe I could never be really happy in heaven. We realise joy more acutely when we have felt pain...if there is no pain or suffering, no unhappiness at all in heaven - it is incomplete. It takes both Yin and Yang to make a circle.

As to evolution and God, I read that the new pope says there's nothing wrong with accepting both. I don't see why Christians can't, actually. Okay, let's say the God-created-Earth thing is correct, then why can't evolution take over from there? Of course, not scientifically accurate, exactly, the earth formed from the remnants of stardust leftover from the birth of the sun...but still more so than the snake and the apple and the two humans. It may be poetic...however for me personally being starchildren is far more so.

This is long enough.

Loki

[Miss Darcy]

worms will eat away their insides- FOREVER.

Prometheus minus the eagles, eh? On the other hand, worms are more poetic. :brow:

And has anyone ever noticed the similarities between Adam & Eve and Pandora's Box?

[Ancestor]

Adelheid as a person whom does not believe in a Devil and who is not a Christian but a spiritualist I would have a different point of view. First please do not sympathize with me because I have forgiven the man who raped me. You must understand once you introduce free will into a human that you cannot have a world with one sided aspects of life. In my beliefs there is more then one plane of existance and that you do not have to be sent to a hell excuse my language to experience it. I know for some people life is unbarable to the point they cry out for death. You have shown how strongly you believe in your beliefs but I do not share those. I may be wrong or you may be wrong in the way we believe that is not up to us to judge. I believe in a higher being and when the time comes for me to meet the Great Spirit then I shall find out if the path I chose was right. But I feel any religious path that fulfills your heart and you are truly happy is not wrong. Even if you do not have faith at all a person whom is happy with their life must be a good person in my book. I know there is life after death because I feel those whom have crossed over. Their spiritual energy is there for us to feel and experience and like everything else in life those spirits can be good or bad. Great Spirit allows us to learn on our own and to walk our paths just like any good parent. :) I hope that I have not offended you but if so my apologies.

[Pendragon]

Those in Hell will cry out to die. die. die. die. "I want to DIE!!!" they will scream. not even for a drop of water do they want to die. They want to die because they cannot bear it! But there is no second death. Imagine!!! The WHOLE of eternity will be spent in the screams of pain, anguish, grief, hate, bitterness, etc. Not as much fun as some people think. Each will be confined to their pits, where fire will consume them, and worms will eat away their insides- FOREVER. Be wise, and take what is freely offered to you. Eternal life.
I have no wish to argue scriptures with anyone, but a second death is scriptual. Read Rev. 2:11, Rev. 20:6, Rev. 20:14, where we read this interresting word "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." Rev. 21:8, where we learn that a liar is as bad in the sight of God as a murderer! I do not say that this lessens the realness of hell by one iota. A person who goes there will know torment beyond anything they have ever felt. Witness the rich man and Lazarus the Begger. I say to you that five seconds in that place will be more than you can bear and you will spend much longer than that there! Be warned! It is hard to go to hell, for God is not willing that any should perish. Jesus shed his blood for you. Prayers of saints worldwide go up for you. You will have a chance, someone will tell you about a Savior, so that you cannot say you didn't know. Against all that, however, as songwriter/singer Don Francisco sings "Man rushes to disstruction with his fingers in his ears." I can only show you where to look. You must choose for yourself. As Dyrwen believes, there is free will. Your choice will determine your destination. And Dyrwen, I always try to see both sides. I have read every comment on this thread with intrest. You have an interesting viewpoint, based on what you believe. I respect that, as you have never been one to try to cram your view down another's throat. I also, am not trying to cram mine down yours. Free will. You have the right to believe as you will and to your own choice. I'd love to see you change, but only God can do that, so.... I hope you will always remember that I have time anytime for the athesist as well as those who agree with me. I'm not ignoring your views. I was trying to stay out of this entirely, open the discussion and then just monitor it, but it didn't work out that way. PM me sometime. God bless.

[Nightshade]

I havent been to this thread in a while so I have quite a few things to say

"God generates beings,and sends them back over and over again,till they return to Him." Koran
surrah and ayah referance please if you know it:D

No matter how much we prepare ourselves we can never truly be prepared for what is waiting for us around the corner.
my personal theory has always bben everymoment in lif is a test. EG if somthing wonderful happens and you start think oh yes I got that becasue I deserve it and I wanted it and because im better than the next person lo and behold somthing nasty follows. And as for somthing horrible happens itsa situation and an event and is seldom persobnal; just being fate. But then again I dont know if I would still be of the same opinion if I hadnt been luckey enough to have nothingbad every happen to me really and always been happy.

I donnot belive in reincarnation full stop.

It is IMPOSSIBLE for a true believer in God and His Word to believe in Evolution.
actually I dont think it is. I know I am not a christian but the fundementals of Islam and christianty barring the few obvious differances are almot exactly the same. And my belief is that evelousion is possible unlikley but possible "God moves in mysterious ways" remember? IM not saying I belive in the full blown eveloutionest theory ie we are decende from monkeys -or should it be we are ascended(?), but I digress.( see Pen manged to use it already :D) .Anyway my point is some eveloution such as spotted dears different plant growth are all possible anything is possible as long as God wishes it to be in other words who are we to say God couldnt have created eveloution sure He could, and He was never under any obligation to explain how he created the univers e he could have just created eveloution and allowed it to work itself well except for Adam and Eve as we know part of their story but even then created and molded from dir could be a metaphore or whatever for eveloution.

and almost finally

If God is just in any way, or has even a *bit* of human kindness in him, then he can't send these people to "eternal damnation". It's simply not logical. I, a humble human being, would take pity on any sort of crime or offence - yea, any. If I can forgive, why can't God forgive? "To err is human, to forgive divine."

God isnt human or human logical thats the point, but I see what you mean its like in Islam there are 99 names for God including The Most Merciful and The Most Strict.


All immorality is a result of bad environmental conditions (if you were born on a pirate ship you'd be a pirate too), or even a simple mistake. Everyone makes mistakes, some small ones, some huge moral ones; but each and every one of us is a human being and deserves forgiveness for our sins, no matter what.
The point is we are granted forgivnes no matter what if we wish to be forgiven and when we know what we did/do is wrong do not repeat it. I dont know if its in the Bible but we have a story of the Children of Isreal when they were lost in the dessert and how when moses came back from his 40 days on the mountain they were worshipping a golden calf which they knew was wrong as theyhad already eecepted god as their god and when they refused to give it up Moses finally said "it would be preferrable for you to commit suicide to God than t continue in willful dissobediance. or thats a paraphrase actually. Its the willfull bit thats important its why a child, a mad person and a sleeping person are not accountable for their actions.


That's my objection to Hell. My objection to Heaven - well, in a nutshell, it's too perfect. So perfect that it loses perfection and becomes imperfect. I also believe I could never be really happy in heaven. We realise joy more acutely when we have felt pain...if there is no pain or suffering, no unhappiness at all in heaven - it is incomplete. It takes both Yin and Yang to make a circle.
Exactly! thats why I dont belive in life persay. Life is defined by death so when there is no deaththere is no life just coninuous being so yes I belive we will Go heaven or hell and yes I belive we will feel pleaseure/ pain ect but I donot belive it should be called life it is somthing else and quite what I am not sure.

[Stanislaw]

Prometheus minus the eagles, eh? On the other hand, worms are more poetic. :brow:

And has anyone ever noticed the similarities between Adam & Eve and Pandora's Box?

Well, there do seem to be some universally accepted tales (not trying to offend, just can't think of a better word than tales).
ex. the natives of northamerica (woodlands cree) believe in a story similar to genesis, I say similar because there are some differences, but the jist of it is the same.

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Universal truths???

[Scheherazade]

Please remember that the aim of religious discussions on this Forum is not to convert anyone or change their views but to exchange opinions. And more importantly this is a debate, not an argument.

[Loki]

Well, there do seem to be some universally accepted tales (not trying to offend, just can't think of a better word than tales).
ex. the natives of northamerica (woodlands cree) believe in a story similar to genesis, I say similar because there are some differences, but the jist of it is the same.

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Universal truths???

Or morphic resonance? :D

[Logos]

This topic now closed as things have gotten a little out of hand.

Anyone can start a new topic if you wish :)