Thomas Hardy's attitude towards his heroines

[Wind&Sand]

Anybody here has interest in Thomas Hardy and his characterization of his female characters?

[Scheherazade]

If you are more specific, Wind&Sand, I am sure there will be many members who would like to discuss Hardy.

Welcome to the Forum! :)

[EAP]

Some of them were pretty mean *****es, I felt. And pigheaded to boot.

How'se that for a generalization? :D

(Yes Cynthia (or whatever her name is from return of the native) and Tess, I am pointing at ye! :p)

[Wind@Sand]

EAP: it's a modern bias upon these female characters, also an overgeneralization.
It's Eustacia in The Return of Native.

[EAP]

bias of what sort?

How can a statement be an overgeneralization when it has already been reported as a generalization, albeit a tongue-in-check one?

[rodanho]

I have only read Tess and may have only a glimpse of the characterization of Hardy. But I think the heroine of that book is a little bit ideal. She was innocent, naive and had a strong feeling of responsibility towards her family,and the distruction of such a charater is more touching and appalling. That may be the motives of Hardy to create an ideal heroine.

[subterranean]

From Tess and Jude, I see women who personalized themselves, acted, and thought contradictively with values in their era, then eventually became victims of society/desire.

EAP: The Piper in your sig somehow makes me think bout The Piper at The Gates of Dawn

[Adelheid]

I didn't really like the way Hardy portrays his heroines. particularly in the Mayor of Casterbridge. Its is rather sad how Elizabeth turns against her "father". But then I guess, like Dickens, he must be trying to bring out some parts of reality in life. It's just hard to read about it and long for a different ending.... ;)

[Wind&Sand]

The purity of Tess is always controvertial ever since. So, as some think Hardy tries to idealize her, some may hold the idea against them.

[dilipbarad]

Hardy redefines the role of women in his novels, focusing on sexuality. By emphasizing the physical aspect of femininity in his unorthodox representation of the sexual female, Hardy threatens the Victorian model of women. Sexuality is evident in Far From The Madding Crowd when Bathsheba unknowingly admits her passion to Sergeant Troy. "If you can only fight half as winningly as you can talk, you are able to make a pleasure of a bayonet wound!" Bathsheba realizes her impulsive expression of sexuality and when she attempts "to retrieve it," she makes the situation worse claiming, "Don't however, suppose that I derive any pleasure from what you tell me"(chapter xxvi). Allowing Bathsheba to disclose her sexuality, Hardy begins to emphasize the sexual qualities of his female character. In redefining the female, Hardy's passionate heroines display characteristics previously found only in male characters.

[dilipbarad]

One of the things I will try to show in my work is that human nature is very complex, and individuals do not always behave consistently, nor can they be reduced to simple terms. So, rather than being 'strong or weak', many of Hardy’s women characters (and the men too, for that matter) are a mixture of strength and weakness.
For example, of Bathsheba in Far from the Madding Crowd has amazing courage in taking on the running of the farm, dealing with her male employees, and entering the all-male territory of the corn exchange.
But she shows weakness in yielding to the tawdry glamour of Sergeant Troy, and immaturity in sending the valentine to Farmer Boldwood with so little thought of the possible consequences.
Tess is less obviously a strong character than Bathsheba, but she has her own kind of strength. She ''baptizes'' her dying baby and confronts the parson with her concern for its eternal welfare. She suffers Angel's rejection of her, and the grueling work at Flintcomb-Ash, without a word of complaint. And in a different way the killing of Alec demands strength of mind and will: a really weak woman could not have done it.

Tess is certainly a ''victim'' - but surely she is also a ''heroine''. If a hero or heroine is someone we can admire, even someone who enlarges our conception of what humanity is capable of, then one could argue that Tess has these qualities.

[Talus Scree]

How do you pronounce the name Thomasin, from our current family reading, The Return of the Native? My daughter says, Tomm-uh-sin; I sayTomm-uh-seen. Thanks

[downing]

I like Eustacia from ,,The Return of the native'' :nod:

[Mark Titus]

How do you pronounce the name Thomasin, from our current family reading, The Return of the Native? My daughter says, Tomm-uh-sin; I sayTomm-uh-seen. Thanks

Tomm-uh-sin


I like Eustacia from ,,The Return of the native''

I hate her..

[mingdamerciless]

Hey Mark Titus
so . . . any reasons for your hatred of her???

[Behemoth]

I started off not liking Eustacia, but then I read Wuthering Heights and I think Catherine is worse... I think the female characters are victims of society, both internal to the novel and in the way in which they are written. You can't really compare them to the male characters because of the vast social difference between them, although I would agree that the female characters do sometimes seem to be portrayed in a less sympathetic way. I don't think i'd go as far as to say that they were awful, though - I think their complexities and emotions are actually a reflection of that complexity in life today. They're not 2-D characters who can be categorized easily, and that's part of why I enjoy Hardy's novels so much.

[toni]

I like tess. She is such a passionate woman. And you'd think Hardy is a woman for writing such a character.

[Ben G]

The two books I've read by Hardy are Far From The Madding Crowd and The Mayor of Casterbridge. The former I absolutely adored, it made an indelible mark on me, and is one of my favourite novels to this day despite my not having read it for over a decade. The latter I liked, but not nearly so much. I think one of the keys to what made the former so superior is the characterisation of Bathsheba Everdene, a female character who he brings so spectacularly to life, which no female character in "Mayor" comes close to. Bathsheba has manifest flaws, and indeed characteristic "feminine weakness", but I have yet to come accross a more acutely painted female character in 19th century literature. Hardy brings out her humanity wonderfully, utterly transcending the endemic misogyny of the time. Reading it as a teenager I came very near to falling in love with this character, despite the lack of sexuality in any description of her!

[Janine]

One of the things I will try to show in my work is that human nature is very complex, and individuals do not always behave consistently, nor can they be reduced to simple terms. So, rather than being 'strong or weak', many of Hardy’s women characters (and the men too, for that matter) are a mixture of strength and weakness.
For example, of Bathsheba in Far from the Madding Crowd has amazing courage in taking on the running of the farm, dealing with her male employees, and entering the all-male territory of the corn exchange.
But she shows weakness in yielding to the tawdry glamour of Sergeant Troy, and immaturity in sending the valentine to Farmer Boldwood with so little thought of the possible consequences.
Tess is less obviously a strong character than Bathsheba, but she has her own kind of strength. She ''baptizes'' her dying baby and confronts the parson with her concern for its eternal welfare. She suffers Angel's rejection of her, and the grueling work at Flintcomb-Ash, without a word of complaint. And in a different way the killing of Alec demands strength of mind and will: a really weak woman could not have done it.

Tess is certainly a ''victim'' - but surely she is also a ''heroine''. If a hero or heroine is someone we can admire, even someone who enlarges our conception of what humanity is capable of, then one could argue that Tess has these qualities.

I certainly agree with both of your posts on Hardy's women characters. You have said it very well. I agree that Tess was heroic. Bathsheba was a very strong, and at the same time, a very weak character. Remember that she was very young, and therefore did foolish things at various time. She sometimes followed her heart and not her head. She did, in contrast show great strength at other times, such as running a business, when it was not the usual thing for women to do, let alone a very young one. What I am about to say should be helpful to all of the people who have posted. There are many good biographies and much information online about Thomas Hardy. A little exploration will provide much insight into his complex life, which readily reflections on his literature. Many of his characters are based on real people and many of his plots are actual incidents or local stories. He took the raw material and made it his own, developing his ideas of women and men and the complexity of their relationships. At yet another level he made his books a platform to speak out about his own beliefs and ideologies. Mostly his novels do not end happily ever after, due to the fact that they are based on "reality" and end as real life would. In fact I read somewhere that originally "Far From the Madding Crowd" did not originally have a happy ending. Many times the publishers influenced the choices authors had unlike the modern day we live in - less restricted. They were much more restained at that time in history. Perhaps one needs life experiences to fully understand Hardy's works. If you have never felt rejection, confusion, frustration in your personal life you may not be able to fully appreciate and relate to Hardy's harsh reality. A friend of mine told me he had read some novels too early in life to fully appreciate them. Later he reread these novels and he could better relate. It helps to know of Hardy's life and his own frustrations and experiences, that most definitely influenced his work. You can never separate the author from his work!

[kelby_lake]

I think Hardy writes brilliantly spirited women, who may have weaknesses but they have a great deal of spirit. His male characters cannot spiritually match up to the women, which I love.