July '05 Book: 'The Curious Incident of The Dog in the Night-Time'

[Scheherazade]

This month we are reading The Curious Incident of the Dog in the Night-Time by Mark Haddon (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1400032717/qid=1120127198/sr=8-1/ref=pd_bbs_ur_1/102-8670614-5092127?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) . Please post your opinions and questions in this thread.


Happy reading one and all! :)



Book Club Procedures (http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?p=57103#post57103)

[Tabac]

The scene at the first of the book where he finds the dog gave me mixed emotions. He gives a cold-blooded description of what he sees, yet we are certain that he must feel bad about it. We know that if the dog had been brown or yellow, he would have had an emotional reaction.

[Scheherazade]

You guys have already read it??? I am not going to be starting till next week. I am reading Memoirs of a Geisha at the moment and would like to finish that one first... Or... maybe I can try to read them together... Oh it is so tempting to start a new book when it is sitting on your book shelf!

[papayahed]

You guys have already read it??? I am not going to be starting till next week. I am reading Memoirs of a Geisha at the moment and would like to finish that one first... Or... maybe I can try to read them together... Oh it is so tempting to start a new book when it is sitting on your book shelf!

ok, I confess. I already read it. That's why I voted for it, it will give me a chance to finish C&P. But I do plan on reading it again for this month- it was a pretty easy read and it is really good.

I especially like all the math references.

[Tabac]

You guys have already read it??? I am not going to be starting till next week. I am reading Memoirs of a Geisha at the moment and would like to finish that one first... Or... maybe I can try to read them together... Oh it is so tempting to start a new book when it is sitting on your book shelf!

You can probably read it in two sittings....three, max. Both because it's relatively short and a quick read, and because it's hard to put down.

We should keep in mind, I think, that there is a reason the book's cover has the title with no capital letters.

If you haven't read this charming little story, do yourself a favor!



Book Club Procedures (http://www.online-literature.com/forums/showthread.php?p=57103#post57103)[/QUOTE]

[Scheherazade]

I have borrowed this edition from the library:

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/0099450259.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

which has capitals in the title...

PS: Out of curiousity, why did you include a link to the Book Club procedures in your post? :)

[papayahed]

http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1400032717/ref=sib_rdr_zmin/104-6293301-9967139?p=S001&j=1#reader-page

probably this cover.

[Tabac]

I have borrowed this edition from the library:

http://images-eu.amazon.com/images/P/0099450259.02.LZZZZZZZ.jpg

which has capitals in the title...

PS: Out of curiousity, why did you include a link to the Book Club procedures in your post? :)

Interesting: the cover shown in the post immediately after yours is the only one I had seen. Different artists' concepts. Is the printing on the title page inside caps and l.c. or just l.c.?

The link was something that sneaked in there some how. I had trouble getting the post to go through in the first place, so whatever I did to get it to go through must have included that. It was not my intention to include it.

[Scheherazade]

Is the printing on the title page inside caps and l.c. or just l.c.?That is all caps as well... Like you suggested, different artists have different interpretations.

I finished the book yesterday. I really enjoyed it; I like the different twists in the story, which keep the reader going. It is so interesting to see how good Christopher is at observing and 'recording' the physical world around himself while he is so helpless when it comes to interpret social codes and people's behaviours. And the detached language he uses to describe things and retell events...

What did you think about the parents' way of handling things? I was very disappointed with the Mother even though she came back later on. And disappointed with the Father, too though I can how disappointed he must have been at the time and reacted the way he did.

[Tabac]

What did you think about the parents' way of handling things? I was very disappointed with the Mother even though she came back later on. And disappointed with the Father, too though I can how disappointed he must have been at the time and reacted the way he did.

I thought the father behaved in a very selfish manner to let his son believe his mother had died...but he didn't have a clue as to how to explain the real situation.

I don't think badly of the mother...she didn't, after all, know that Christopher hadn't been getting her letters.

[Scheherazade]

How about the Mother leaving without any explanations... and hoping the Father would deal with it all... Not only telling Christopher what happened but then taking care of him all on his own as well... One cannot do parenting through letters no matter how good s/he is at the art of letter writing.

[papayahed]

I thought the father behaved in a very selfish manner to let his son believe his mother had died...but he didn't have a clue as to how to explain the real situation.



And if did try to explain it to Christopher can you imagine all the questions christopher would have asked?? But then again, to say some died?? that's a little harsh also.

[Nightshade]

I think I need to reread the book I cant remember if she comes back to stay or not (in fact I cant remember the ending at all)
The bits that stand out most I think in the nearly a year since I read the book is the bit where he explains autisim as how most people have a little man in there head and he doesnt, before I read that I always imagened I was just weird child :D then again the poor man in my had did have trouble with filing and his wife and daughtr ran off with all his money .... :eek:

Oh and I remebr somthing about a policeman and the train made me want to laugh and cry at the same time but cant rember why
Oh an when he found the letters now that was sad because of how confused he was.

But I remebre thinking this when I read the book and I still think it now, how reliable is a book written from an autistic point of view by a non autistic peroson? It would be like a born blind person discribing florescent paper, or like someone pretending to be a blind person describing floresent paper

[Tabac]

But I remebre thinking this when I read the book and I still think it now, how reliable is a book written from an autistic point of view by a non autistic peroson? It would be like a born blind person discribing florescent paper, or like someone pretending to be a blind person describing floresent paper
Mark Haddon had a lot of experience working with autistic people. It isn't the same as being autistic, but he probably has an excellent idea of what goes on inside their heads.


One cannot do parenting through letters no matter how good s/he is at the art of letter writing.
She never felt she was any good at parenting at all. She admits that the father was much better with Christopher than she was. What surrounds Christopher is just another example of what happens when we don't live up to the responsibilities that we assume....we tend to ignore what impact our actions may have on other people (even those we purport to love).

[Scheherazade]

I think the Father's actions were more result of his own personal hurt (ie, telling Christopher that his mom is dead) rather than thinking what is best for his son. I am not sure if it justifies his actions but I can understand his hurt... being left for someone else especially when they have a son like Christopher...

As for the mother... Towards the end of the book I was really wondering if she really cared for the other guy or she merely needed a break from it all as it must be very difficult to bring up a child like Christopher, especially if you think that you are not doing a good job.

Seems like something has gone terribly wrong for the family somewhere along the way and they didn't know how to handle it.

*leaves after stating the obvious* :D

[papayahed]

I think the Father's actions were more result of his own personal hurt (ie, telling Christopher that his mom is dead) rather than thinking what is best for his son. I am not sure if it justifies his actions but I can understand his hurt... being left for someone else especially when they have a son like Christopher...


I think the father did what was the easiest. I really felt bad for the father after christopher found out about the dog and he became afraid of his father and wouldn't talk to him, that has to be a tough one.

[Tabac]

Towards the end of the book I was really wondering if she really cared for the other guy or she merely needed a break from it all as it must be very difficult to bring up a child like Christopher, especially if you think that you are not doing a good job.


I believe that in one of her letters, she explains her actions in this way. I'll have to scan the letters to find it, but I'm sure you're right.

[Scheherazade]

I think the father did what was the easiest. I really felt bad for the father after christopher found out about the dog and he became afraid of his father and wouldn't talk to him, that has to be a tough one.I also felt for the Father when Christopher stopped trusting him because of the dog inicident. Seemed like all his life's efforts meant nothing but I think that is just another example showing Christopher's inability to 'read' emotions;everything is 'black' and 'white' for him so when his father did something unacceptable like killing a dog, in his mind, he had a no choice but to get away from him: his father was a murderer in his eyes.

If you were Christopher's parents, how would you feel/react? What would you do if you were in his father's shoes?

[Eliza]

I read this book over a year ago and had a strong reaction to it. I loved Christopher and his math equations and his hypernormal attention to details. I struggled to even like the parents and finally just gave up. Don't like'em. I can muster a little sympathy but that's all. I try not to judge them objectively or even in hindsight perspective, but their motivations were pure selfishness. They definitely love Christopher, but their personal agendas were a higher priority. The father thought life would be easier if the wife were dead. The mother certainly wrote some letters, but she made no convincing effort to bring Christopher to live with her and her new husband. Given Christopher's autism, I really don't see how they helped him although they successfully engineered their own fantasies of "cheating wife is dead" and "What kid? I don't have a kid."

Eliza

[Scheherazade]

I agree with your comments on the parents, Eliza. I don't know what I would do if I were in their shoes but still their way seems to be the 'easy way out'. I would like to think that I would stick around and try to do my best. It is possible to grow resentful and weary over time yet...

I felt sorry for the Father that after his wife leaves him, he falls for the neighbour and gets refused by her as well (probably it was a rebound thing anyway rather than something serious?)

[Scheherazade]

was the book what you expected?

No, I actually imagined to be a sherlock-holmesy type

i was thinking that it would be more like a detective book
but that was just a starting point

what did you think of the title?

very... accurate

i thought it would be a post modernist, hard to follow story

after reading the book?

Christopher-ish

the same?

on my book, it says on the back of the cover what the book is about

true

it never occured to me to check the blurb

if it weren't for it, we wouldn't probably bothered to read it

really?

I am glad you have read it :)

I copied that to a friend and she decided to read it

well, yes

its name seems sherlockholmesy and i dislike sherlock

Rarely great minds are appreciated like they should

i really love the way the story unfolded...
the author is very cleverly put things together, I thought

me too

it was very easy to read

reminded a bit of vonnegut, only easier

yes, it was... and by each chapter i was more and more drawn into it

i havent read vonnegut

nice way of numbering chapters btw

did you think there was a publishing mistake initially?

in the breakfast of the champions the author constantly draws pictures and says - this is what an apple looks like

chapter numbers? why is 2 missing etc

i think i missed the first one

but actually i understood it in about chapter 13

I noticed it earlier
and went back and forth a little trying to figure it out
then it dawned on me

well, it is very original

yes

what was your initial reaction to christopher and the murder of thedog?

actually, it was not very interesting
the beginning at least

thought it might have been his dog

So did I...

but chapter three was wonderful

did you think his reaction was too much to the death of the dog?

if he would of have been his, not really

if you found your dog killed by a fork I guess you might react the same way

well, no

would you go out for a murderer hunt on your own though?

depends

don't think so

I dont think I would

calling the police is easier

actually, me neither

what was your reaction to the discovery that mother was dead?
did you believe it?

yes

that she was dead? yep
i am not paranoid

I was a little puzzled about it because Chris wasnt allowed to go to the hospital or the funeral etc

it didnt seem to add up but i still believed that she was dead

i thought she died suddenly but the father couldnt tell him
so invented the hospital story and then finally broke him the news

well, the truth was improbable

what did you think when he found those letters?

then i knew that she was alive but left them

felt really sorry for Chris that he couldn't figure it out in the beginning

thought that those letters were sent before his mother died

hey, it was even hard for me to believe it

i thought that it had been perhaps written earlier

what did you think about the fact that it was the father who killed the dog?

now i understood why he got angry

no idea how him killing the dog fits into the story other than get Christopher to find out about his mother being alive

I thought it showed a different side of him as well
in the story we usually see him as this cool, calm man.. who deals with his wife's death silently while looking after an autistic son...
but now this terrible secret

he didn't seem that cool, calm man to me

before you find out about the mother and the dog etc, you didnt think so?

I admired him
how well he coped with everything etc

yep, before he was ok

and what did you think of him once you discovered that it was him who killed the dog?

well, my opinionon him went down
him speaking about the red fog
that he might have been drunk
thinking that he might have some sort of minor mental illness

that is what i thought too.. that he might have been drunk

well, it seems possible

you usually don't see red fog

and the fact taht he lied about the mother?

I think he should have told Chris that mum left and not died, I guess Crist would be able to deal a lot more with that

what do you think, what actually shocked chris more, the knowledge that his mother was alive or that his father had killed the dog

no idea, I'd say father lying to him

I thought telling Chris that his mother was dead was more of a resetment
but as it's not one of the options

to the fact that he was deserted
she was dead for him
and he expressed his resentment by telling Chris so as well

I thought his resentment ran that deep that he sort of wished her dead

i think that his shock started with learning that his mother was dead and the distrust deepened when learning who kille dthe dog

quite possible

I didn't think that his mother's death shocked him too much

I think he was shocked in the sense that his daily life was changed
not in the emotional sense maybe
as he is in a way incapable of that kind of shock

but he heavily relies on routines and such and with mother's absence there were changes in his life

a bit funny how chris is actually a materialist, but has this car thingy
it was interesting though

probably just to create routine

one would expect chris not to be prone such things

he said that yes, it was a bit stupid but he backed it up by reasoning

as he seems to be governed by logic

however, he finds comfort in numbers

because they are stable

one playwright and physicist once spoke thus about mathematics:
math is the very purest of things. In everywhere else, there are things that are not certain or hazy or unclean. When you do maths it sometimes feels as if the math itself did it. It is probably the same thing how religious people think of god
or something like that

that is interesting and i think chris felt the same way as well
numbers seemed to be the only thing he could 'read' without getting confused and they never betrayed him because once you cracked the code it always worked

math is art in a way

How did you feel when Chris refused to trust his father after the discovery?

he had a point

but the father must have felt awful

i thought that was a terrible thing

I thought that the father should have known better than to think he could lie to Chris when he knew how Chris was... reliant? on the truth and when someone you trust lies to you it just does't feel right whatever his reasons were

after all the things he has been doing for his son, being pushed aside and what's more not being trusted, i thought it must be devastating

what would you do in his place?

chris liked dogs even more than humans, if i am nt mistaken

I'm not sure

you have an already difficult life... an autistic son, and then your wife leaves you?

yes, he was very fond of the dog...

probably he thought they are easier companies than humans

so he thought it logical that if someone can kill a dog, he can also kill a human
humans are too complicated in general

he said so, he said that they had fewer emotions and expressions and were easier to understand

anyone else liked Siobhan? did you think she was real right from the beginning?

yes

I always thought she was a teacher

i thought she was real

though in some ways she was a bit mistaken

because in the beginning he said it was Siobhan who taught him those emotions etc

mistaken how?

when she said that people didn't want to read about math in a book

mind you, i solved the puzzle once when i came home from school in a bus
anyone wondered what happened to the original book his father confiscated?

he found that in the box, didnt he?

yeah but did he take it back or did he leave it there? he said he's start a second book... did he?

is that even relevant?

I thought he took it back?

not so sure now

I just thought that when the book was that important to him that he'd mention what befell to it

anyone else found the description of the guy with two mice in his nose funny?

yes

what did you think of the mother's behaviour?

well, i think it was not good of her to only send letters

she seemed normal to me, no super mum but there sure are worse, she just had problems copying with Christopher, not so sure anyone can handle an autistic child

she tried

but leaving like that? without an explanation?

which parent was worse?

I think the father didn't let her in to talk to Chris?

and she did explain in the letter

that was after she left
but she didnt talk to Chris herself

she let her husband deal with it

because the father didn't let her?

she could have visited him

break the news to Chris
and he did deal with it!

You are dead!

what could he do, when she went to visit them and chris opened the door?

but she didn't know what the husband told Chris, she just one day might have appeared at the doorstep

yes, but she took that risk

I thought she opted for the easy way

didnt want to deal with chris

yep, agreed

yes, it is true that it was a difficult situation

very hard

but she didnt even want the responsibility of telling Chris what was going on

no one did

well, neither of them

he found out when Mrs Anderson told him

yes, but since it was the mother who made the choice, she should have told Chris herself

and then hoping to do parenting through letters???

well, his reaction was more like : oh, really?

i think both parents failed chris

not gonna hear me argue that point

however we are all humanbeing
we err

some more than others

you aren't?

I am, are you?

i think i am

what did you think of the ending of the book?

the extra?

I liked Sandy

I like dogs

slight Chritopher like tendencies?

though in my opinion the ending was a bit predictable

but the ending was good too

yes, but i really wished the father to get a better deal

i coud use it as book therapy

and I like when Chris said he was ... about him getting the A

yeah, how so?

by reading it?

Are you satisfied with the ending?

everyone got a fair deal?

noticed you wanted the father to get a better deal

have to admit I thought Chris would move back in

you wanted the father and mother to make up and remarry?

no

history tends to repeat itself

do you think that is what is gonna happen?

no

nope

I thought that was implied

interesting

maybe the romantic in me

I think father is the guilty one.. because he neglected his wife and later on lied to chris

neglected Chris?

he also after being refused by the neighbour, killed her dog and did not tell the truth about it

why do you think so? before you said you admired him

so who is your fav character in the book?

christopher?

I have two

chris too for me

go, chris, go!

what did you think of mrs anderson?
the elderly neighbor?

she was nice

and what did you think of mother's boyfriend?

eeewwww

it was a pity that chris did not want to befriend with her

why did she like him in the first place?

yeah, i really wish that he was more friendly towards her
but he takes a long time to make friends i guess

i have no idea

i think mother just wanted to get out

anybody could have done and he happened to be there

same old story, he was lonely, she was lonely, so they decided to be lonely together

[cherypicker1]

I'm in VCE (last year of high school) and am analysing this book to write a text response on. I found it very enthrawling to read about how Christopher reacted to situations, and how he had the dream of becoming an astronaut because he would be alone and amongst things he loved. This seemed weird to me. I also need to choose one important, 15 or less words, quote from each chapter to help me. If anyone could me give me any quotes from any chapters it would be much appreciated (it has to be said why this quote is important to the plot fo information of the story). Great book overall.